Lolicons

[sanahtlig]

Those against lolicon as a genre (or at least those that are somewhat articulate) would say that the child as an asexual concept is worth defending.  According to such an argument, a loli (a sexualized concept by definition) is just a drawing of a child, and the genre itself promotes sexualization of real children.  This is socially unacceptable, in the same way that racist and sexist speech are socially unacceptable even in fictional entertainment.  There's a social order to be maintained, and ideas that run counter to the social order must be marginalized and suppressed.  The willingness to create law that enforces loli censorship just shows how important defending the asexuality of children is to our society.

 

Japan has a real problem with sexualization of children (just look at the gravure idol scene), so you can't say such arguments are completely unfounded.

[Niko]

Can't really say I'll ever find the sexual or romantic appeal in lolis. It's an alien concept to me. When I see a cute loli across my screen I think about wanting to adopt one. How frightening would it be if I was the only parent of a loli here? 

 

 

I had this whole image of an apple and orange last night when I was reading this. When I came to this morning, both fruits were back in their respective baskets.

 

If I had to make a conjecture, I would say Niko is an undercover cop or knows one around here. Fortunately Okami sensed his amateur detective work. He saved himself from using an alibi (in case he was carted off last night), by not allowing himself to be baited using words beyond "moral subjectivity" and "breaking the low" instead of "breaking the law." 

H-How did you know you sly dog!?

[Forythos]

Can't really say I'll ever find the sexual or romantic appeal in lolis. It's an alien concept to me. When I see a cute loli across my screen I think about wanting to adopt one. How frightening would it be if I was the only parent of a loli here? 

 

I did not mean that I now find them sexualy arousing, not sure how you got that from what I said.  What I mean is that I used to find them slightly disturbing, but I

now understand the cutesy appeal of them.  I still don't find sexualized lolis appealing in 98% of cases, but I understand that their appeal is different than that of real children to most loli lovers. (After that it all depends on whether you consider characters like Mikan Yuuki for example as loli characters, I've seen debates on the subject before and I certainly don't consider myself an expert.)  As an example, I like Miyauchi Renge as a character because she's cute and funny, but I certainly don't want to see her anywhere near a penis. 

 

I just don't care that other people like them in that way, as long as it doesn't hurt real people they're free to fap to whatever they want.

[crunchytaco]

I did not mean that I now find them sexualy arousing, not sure how you got that from what I said.  What I mean is that I used to find them slightly disturbing, but I

now understand the cutesy appeal of them.  I still don't find sexualized lolis appealing in 98% of cases, but I understand that their appeal is different than that of real children to most loli lovers. (After that it all depends on whether you consider characters like Mikan Yuuki for example as loli characters, I've seen debates on the subject before and I certainly don't consider myself an expert.)  As an example, I like Miyauchi Renge as a character because she's cute and funny, but I certainly don't want to see her anywhere near a penis. 

 

I just don't care that other people like them in that way, as long as it doesn't hurt real people they're free to fap to whatever they want.

 

I just assumed based on stereotypes here. Guilty by association I suppose lol.

 

I don't mean to sound high and mighty about it and hurt anyone's feelings by sharing my own feelings on lolis. They are some of the nicest 2d people on earth I bet. Just not my cup of tea.

[ExiledSaber]

I just assumed based on stereotypes here. Guilty by association I suppose lol.

 

I don't mean to sound high and mighty about it and hurt anyone's feelings by sharing my own feelings on lolis. They are some of the nicest 2d people on earth I bet. Just not my cup of tea.

 

Its true you can not deny there cuteness and love abilty! That said i dont under stand why one would want to taint such a thing.... well at least untill they become legeal lolis then all best are off.

[crunchytaco]

Its true you can not deny there cuteness and love abilty! That said i dont under stand why one would want to taint such a thing.... well at least untill they become legeal lolis then all best are off.

 

Lolis are cute because they never age. Age is what taints them. If they become legal, most lolicons would faint.

[ExiledSaber]

Lolis are cute because they never age. Age is what taints them. If they become legal, most lolicons would faint.

 

True. But i was kinda mixing 2d and 3d for that comment. I knew a girl that to look at was pretty much the definition of a loli. 5 foot nothing 90 lbs big brown eyes a bubble personailty. She looked a lot younger then she was. When we went places i all ways got funny looks and most people thought she was about 5 years younger then she was, kicker is she was older then me.

 

She was the most hugable and adorable girl i have ever known.

[crunchytaco]

True. But i was kinda mixing 2d and 3d for that comment. I knew a girl that to look at was pretty much the definition of a loli. 5 foot nothing 90 lbs big brown eyes a bubble personailty. She looked a lot younger then she was. When we went places i all ways got funny looks and most people thought she was about 5 years younger then she was, kicker is she was older then me.

 

She was the most hugable and adorable girl i have ever known.

Sounds like a real life Saber-chan. I wouldn't call Saber a loli though. Loli would be more like if you walked around with Illya chan. 

[ExiledSaber]

Sounds like a real life Saber-chan. I wouldn't call Saber a loli though. Loli would be more like if you walked around with Illya chan. 

 

Way most people looked at me i would say they all thought she more like Illya.

[Xypers]

:|

Edited December 2, 2018 by Xypers

[Niko]

I never said they should be arrested for whats inside their minds. I meant I'm glad the undercover cops bust them in an operation before its late.

 

24 year old pedo William should not be trying to meet up with 12 year old Erica. That's both creepy and worthy of being busted.

[Dark Ariel7]

I would like to register myself here as a lolicon.

 

Am I seriously the only one that saw that Okami was on topic and was right?

The penalization for the act of sexualizing  a child in fiction or not seems to be with the topic at hand. Also maybe its because I am still relatively young but I still remember what it was like when I first took up interest in girls in a sexual way. I was maybe 10 or 12? The girls I had a sexual interest in were about my same age. Why is it so wrong for a person to keep that sexual consciousness that we all had at that age? Do I like children? No. I think they are freaking gross. I mean seriously dirty. Maybe that is just because I saw snot covered kids to much when I was younger but I digress. Do I sometimes see a "hot" underage girl? yes. Does that mean I want to have sex with her. yes. Does that mean I have any plans to molest her? NO. I see hot older women all the time and I have no plan to molest them either. Rape is rape. Sexual preferences are sexual preferences. Mutually exclusive.

 

What does this have to do with the topic? Well I mean we are talking about Lolis. Lolis are for the most part a fictional 2d object in your head. If you love them in a sexual way that does mean you would rape them even if you could. Though, you can't(yet). So, whats the harm? 

 

Also, even if you want to say that they are sexual symbols for kids. Sure that could easily be argued. However, they are enhanced versions that hardly resemble actual kids. They have more sensual bodies and erotic adult behavior. I mean my favorite loli is Shinobu. Sure she is similar to a kid. But I dare any of you to find a picture of a kid that resembles her adult charm and cute juxtaposition of old and young. 

[Dark Ariel7]

I never said they should be arrested for whats inside their minds. I meant I'm glad the undercover cops bust them in an operation before its late.

 

24 year old pedo William should not be trying to meet up with 12 year old Erica. That's both creepy and worthy of being busted.

 

Okay, let's leave the ones on the street who have yet to rape or kidnap a kid so they can possibly do that in the future. Getting arrested by an undercover cop isn't stupid low, what's stupid low is a man or women trying to meet up with a small kid. I'm glad they get busted in the process.

 

I would never let my kid hang with an adult who I feel will attempt something in the future.

 

If that is not an implication of the fact that they should be arrested before they do anything, ergo for what they think, then I don't know what is.

[Niko]

 

 

 

If that is not an implication of the fact that they should be arrested before they do anything, ergo for what they think, then I don't know what is.

 

That was targetted to the people who are arrested in sting operations. If they are trying to meet up with 11 year old girls, then yes. Please get them off the streets.

[Dark Ariel7]

That was targetted to the people who are arrested in sting operations. If they are trying to meet up with 11 year old girls, then yes. Please get them off the streets.

In that case, I concede the point. Attempt at rape is pretty terrible. With enough evidenve to make sure that it is indeed an attempt at rape then I concur. They should be arrested.

[Nosebleed]

A true lolicon wouldn't leave the house and be a hikikomori and thus wouldn't cause any real damage to begin with.

 

Fantasizing about having sex with lolis is fine.

Taking actions based on those fantasies however is not.

 

Don't arrest me for thinking, arrest me if I take action. That's all there should be.

[Niko]

In that case, I concede the point. Attempt at rape is pretty terrible. With enough evidenve to make sure that it is indeed an attempt at rape then I concur. They should be arrested.

This is why I can't agree with Okami. Thinking the undercover cops are wrong and thinking its fine for a grown adult to do stuff to kids is completely messed up. 

[Dark Ariel7]

This is why I can't agree with Okami. Thinking the undercover cops are wrong and thinking its fine for a grown adult to do stuff to kids is completely messed up. 

Well from what I read he just seemed to be saying that odds of getting caught by one such agent are relatively low. Which I can agree with.

[Niko]

So you are assuming that every person who likes kids is a rapist?

 

Or are you saying that if a underage girl/boy have sex with an adult willingly adult should be arrested anyway? Or even if adult just looks at an underage while not ever meaning to even approach her/him should be arrested?

 

Low might say so, but low is not always right.

 

If you don't won't your kid to have sex at early age with an older person you should rise him that way, not go and demanding that every person who likes kids should be arrested just because he likes what he likes.

 

And if you are saying that anyone who has a potential of commiting a crime should be arrested before he has a chance to make one, then you are basically saying  that every human should be arrested as everyone have a potential for making crimes.

This was the messed up post. Yes, if an adult has fun time with a kid even if the kid wanted it is still wrong and they should and will be arrested. Then he states we should raise our kids not to have fun time with adults? Its true, but even if we didn't I would hope an adult wouldn't commit a crime and take advantage of a kid.

 

Even if a kid agrees, people need to realize its still rape.

[Nosebleed]

We're diving into age of consent and the issues of when is a human being capable of consciously making a choice for themselves.

(Conscious in the truest sense of the word: Being aware of themselves and their sorroundings as well as what their choices entail)

This is a different topic and one you won't find a quick answer for.

For example the age of consent in my country is 14. I could legally be dating a 14 year old right now and having a sexual relationship with her if she consented.

See why this is not a good thing to discuss?

 

So let's stick with: The law says sexual intercourse with a minor (minor as defined by law in the respective country) is a crime and thus should be punisheable.

Wether this is valid or not doesn't matter, it's the law, let's focus on arguments where this premise is absolutely true, because what we're discussing here is the lolicon genre not wether or not is okay to legally date a child and/or have sex with them.

[Dark Ariel7]

"But enough with the history shit. What's your opinion on this? From the different forums I've visited It seems that people are really divisive on this topic. It's either "It's sick and twisted" or "It's fine and I don't mind""

 

was the original post topic. Since we are talking about opinions and using laws as reference I feel that it is a perfectly extendable topic that still relates to the original post. I mean if we stay too single tracked we can hardly have a discussion past "sex with a minor is illegal" and "2d is 2d 3d is 3d". We are simply expanding on the "sick and twisted" side of it. He wanted and interesting discussion about loli. I feel that this fits the bill

 

"and thus should be punisheable." is particularly the part that I cannot agree with that interposes that laws make justice and not that justice makes the law. A very important differentiation. Just because it is a law does not mean it is ok. There is validity in discussing pedophilia as it to some extent pertains to loli.

[Dark Ariel7]

This was the messed up post. Yes, if an adult has fun time with a kid even if the kid wanted it is still wrong and they should and will be arrested. Then he states we should raise our kids not to have fun time with adults? Its true, but even if we didn't I would hope an adult wouldn't commit a crime and take advantage of a kid.

 

Even if a kid agrees, people need to realize its still rape.

If I may be so bold as to interpret, he seemed to mean something closer to educate your children so that they know the difference between playing catch and doing sexual favors. I agree with that. and the second statement is a little crude but it seems to mean means that you should not be presenting the opportunity. Opportunity makes the crime. Which, to some degree, I can agree with. I do believe he already said that rape was wrong so I can assume he would be OK with a pedophile that rapes a kid being arrested.

If I am wrong on any of this please feel free to correct me, Okami. This is just what I got from your posts.

[Nosebleed]

Let me try to word it better.

What I was saying this discussion shouldn't go into is "should an adult legally be able to date a child" or "is it okay for an adult and a minor to have a sexual relationship" and that kind of stuff.

It's stated in the forums rules: No advocacy of real life crime

I don't want to cut your fun, I just want to make sure this doesn't get too dark or violates forum rules.

You can argue with laws, I'm just saying that it's common sense that the law forbids and punishes sexual relationships with minors most of the time in most advanced countries so this shouldn't become too much of a focus. Law exists because a consensus was made on it most of the time and it is socially not acceptable for an adult to be dating a minor. But i get how it correlates with lolis so i guess discussing it to some extent is fine.

However this thread's original goal was the stance on lolicons and the lolicon genre as a whole and wether or not that is okay to exist as well as the consequences of it existing in real life.

I'm not trying to destroy discussions, sorry if it came off like that, this thread is actually pretty interesting to read.

But well go ahead and discuss away, I just tried making a point not as a staff member but as myself, I'm mostly just reading through everyone's comments

[Mephisto]

I don't have a problem with people being lolicons, but I do have a problem with lolicons who take advantage of lolis due to being older/more mature. I think it's important to allow children to grow and mold themselves in to what they want to be, without being dragged in to a realm they aren't equipped mentally to handle simply because someone saw the opportunity to satisfy their own desires. 

 

In any case we know all the "loli" characters showcased in anime/VNs for the most part are all written extremely poorly and aim simply to satisfy a niche fetish. It's the very rare game that the character is young for a reason, and that her being young actually plays in to the story and why/how things play out. 

 

As for characters that only "look" like lolis, most of these characters are a pain in the ass to deal with. If they're older than they look, then they don't have to act like little kids all the time, and should have some backbone. 

[Dark Ariel7]

I don't have a problem with people being lolicons, but I do have a problem with lolicons who take advantage of lolis due to being older/more mature. I think it's important to allow children to grow and mold themselves in to what they want to be, without being dragged in to a realm they aren't equipped mentally to handle simply because someone saw the opportunity to satisfy their own desires. 

 

In any case we know all the "loli" characters showcased in anime/VNs for the most part are all written extremely poorly and aim simply to satisfy a niche fetish. It's the very rare game that the character is young for a reason, and that her being young actually plays in to the story and why/how things play out. 

 

As for characters that only "look" like lolis, most of these characters are a pain in the ass to deal with. If they're older than they look, then they don't have to act like little kids all the time, and should have some backbone. 

Shinobu. Loli is a look not really an age. 

I do wish more loli characters were better created. Like Shiro.