Sekai Project Official Grisaia Translation?

[Nosebleed]

Reasons for why one likes porn are entirely irrelevant in this matter in my opinion.

Not seeing porn in this official release sucks for a lot because they want the h-scenes, again, reasons as to why don't matter, it all boils down to: they want it.

But the matter of the fact is, they're not getting them regardless, and the reasons, once again, don't matter because it's Sekai Project who owns the license.

 

Is this a big "f*ck you" to some fans? Sure one might see it that way.

 

But what can one do about it? Well they can get the original VN and patch it.

And don't tell me that the patch will completely disappear off of the face of the earth because it won't.

 

Is this so complicated?

 

And for the record, I like H-scenes, I'm saddened this won't have them, but look at all the eroge out there with tons and tons of h-scenes, I'm sure i haven't been deprived of my h-scenes, so why be so upset over one single release? 

 

We've already established this will be a port of the console version with extra content (safe for work of course). It literally only removes the sex scenes and leaves all the story in all of its glory there which if people care for will read. And if people care for the h-scenes they can  ALSO get those from the original which won't disappear off of the face of the earth.

 

I don't see any reason to be upset when you haven't been deprived of anything. You might hate Sekai Project and how they're doing things. I'd also like h-scenes to be officially released, but it's just not happening with Sekai Project, let's move on with life shall we?

[Steindrakgaterr]

Is it possible to just patch H scenes into a game? Not that I care about sex scenes, just so people would stop bitches about it.

[Erogamer]

I just don't want to see this as a common trend among new TL projects. By the way, I probably went to far with my last post and for that I apologize.

[Karakkan]

I just don't want to see this as a common trend among new TL projects. By the way, I probably went to far with my last post and for that I apologize.

You'd be more in the right if this was like Moenovel and the whole heart had wings situation. But the fact is, there's an 'all-ages' version (which will probably still be rated M anyways) already out as well. So it's not like you're going to be getting a butchered VN. Hell, your concern of a 'great piece of art being ruined' is actually the opposite, since this new version would have given the writers the opportunity to touch up and improve what they had already written.

In short, this is the equivalent of KiraKira having both an H and non-H version, we're just getting the non-H. Is it disappointing? Maybe a bit, yeah. But you're getting the story and characters you love localized officially, and then additional stuff added on top of it. Celebrate that, because acting like this is what Moenovel did is frankly, idiotic. And reinforcing that frankly poor comparison is really, really bad.

Because if we as a community don't help make the release of a well-received and awarded VN like Grisaia viable to Frontwing, why would any other company want to officially localize their own games when the best of the best couldn't make it?

[Narcosis]

It's quite funny to see publishers of such a niche part of the gaming community having to rely on their fanbase to achieve success. They already made it a business in the first place, knowing it's going to be ridiculously difficult to stay afloat and that vn's on the west aren't a decent source of income and yet they complain all the time about how hard it is and that "piracy" is destroying all their efforts. If I'd really care for the original creators, I'd send them money directly and write a mail, pouring all my love for them, their works and words of encouragement to continue despite all the issues, honestly we ourselves often cause them as well.

 

Publishers aren't entitled to anything, them asking us to help support their own business is no less than idiotic, rude and reeks of immaturity and lack of professionalism. Don't forget that all the big publishing studios we have right now all started from fan efforts - people, who loved vn's and wanted to bring them to the west officially. Sadly, they aren't still doing a decent enough job and in plenty of cases, money becomes more of an issue to them since they need funds to support themeselves and their offices in the first place. MG took ages to release EF, Moenovel simply showed us their middle finger and JAST is constantly refusing to port more Nitro+ titles we'd love to see, despite them being their western subsidiary. All the reasons they fail, time after time is because of their own clear mistakes and community does not play any role in that. Perhaps, if they would try harder, care less for money in the first place and more about the games they want to bring over things would look differently, but that's not the reality we live in. In the end, their business is just themselves trying to live off publishing japanese eroge on the west.

 

There's simply no space for them to condemn the Fan TL's and visual novel community that gave birth to them and accuse us for not trying to make things better for them. How can that happen, if what they do is still not what the community expects out of them? It's like they're waiting for some miracle to happen, instead trying to create them. From this perspective, I'm quite glad with what SP is currently doing; they embraced a different model - the one where the publisher works closely with their customers to satisfy their needs and ensure themselves a steady flow of income as well. Sadly, it seems that whenever official business is being introduced, it eats away at who those people once used to be, which slowly results in lack of connection and understanding towards the community; the very same one, they once were a part of.

[LiquidShu]

 

 

 

And for the record, I like H-scenes, I'm saddened this won't have them, but look at all the eroge out there with tons and tons of h-scenes, I'm sure i haven't been deprived of my h-scenes, so why be so upset over one single release? 

 

 

I know I can just get the patch for it and all of a sudden it is back to the way the original was, but I still think the H - Scenes are important to be with the game in the first place. Doing my first play through now and on Amane's route, I personally feel like it wouldn't feel like Amane with out some of the things she does... 

 

Like when she was next to the vending machines with a sign that said"100 yen boob job can come inside boobs" I was laughing so hard I couldn't help it. Sure that was not needed but it still was a refreshing laugh that helped contribute to the experience.

 

Sure I can get the patch and this way it can spread to a wider audience AND we are getting more scenes. I still don't think it would be as enjoyable with out those scenes every once in a while though... One more thing the "pure" eroge VN's aren't as enjoyable to me personally. When the characters do those things in a VN focused on the story and characters over the H when those scenes do happen I feel like they happen for a reason as small as it may be. Not just for smut (although sometimes yes...).

 

~ Really no point in this post as we basically covered all of this; just wanted to through my final comments out.

[Decay]

It's quite funny to see publishers of such a niche part of the gaming community having to rely on their fanbase to achieve success. They already made it a business in the first place, knowing it's going to be ridiculously difficult to stay afloat and that vn's on the west aren't a decent source of income and yet they complain all the time about how hard it is and that "piracy" is destroying all their efforts. If I'd really care for the original creators, I'd send them money directly and write a mail, pouring all my love for them, their works and words of encouragement to continue despite all the issues, honestly we ourselves often cause them as well.

 

Publishers aren't entitled to anything, them asking us to help support their own business is no less than idiotic, rude and reeks of immaturity and lack of professionalism. Don't forget that all the big publishing studios we have right now all started from fan efforts - people, who loved vn's and wanted to bring them to the west officially. Sadly, they aren't still doing a decent enough job and in plenty of cases, money becomes more of an issue to them since they need funds to support themeselves and their offices in the first place. MG took ages to release EF, Moenovel simply showed us their middle finger and JAST is constantly refusing to port more Nitro+ titles we'd love to see, despite them being their western subsidiary. All the reasons they fail, time after time is because of their own clear mistakes and community does not play any role in that. Perhaps, if they would try harder, care less for money in the first place and more about the games they want to bring over things would look differently, but that's not the reality we live in. In the end, their business is just themselves trying to live off publishing japanese eroge on the west.

 

There's simply no space for them to condemn the Fan TL's and visual novel community that gave birth to them and accuse us for not trying to make things better for them. How can that happen, if what they do is still not what the community expects out of them? It's like they're waiting for some miracle to happen, instead trying to create them. From this perspective, I'm quite glad with what SP is currently doing; they embraced a different model - the one where the publisher works closely with their customers to satisfy their needs and ensure themselves a steady flow of income as well. Sadly, it seems that whenever official business is being introduced, it eats away at who those people once used to be, which slowly results in lack of connection and understanding towards the community; the very same one, they once were a part of.

Your posting has jumped the shark. You post nothing but ill-informed hate with no basis in reality.

 

Funny how much you talk about how the community is against this when most of the posters in this thread seem pretty okay with it.

[Erogamer]

Your posting has jumped the shark. You post nothing but ill-informed hate with no basis in reality.

 

Funny how much you talk about how the community is against this when most of the posters in this thread seem pretty okay with it.

Actually, many people are NOT ok with this. I have seen some in this forum as well as in a few other forums that are dissappointed with the route Sekai is taking with this visual novel for PC. I agree with LiquidShu. However, I guess there is nothing we can do about it. I guess if you don't like it, don't support Sekai.

[Narcosis]

I'd still say people should support SP, if they only have the means to do so; after all, they are doing far better job than any of our older publishers. It doesn't have to be financial - spreading the word or writing an in-depth review for the games they published is as good as paying them money. In the end, they might actually bring in a lot of freshness to the western market, along with their releases.

 

We might be dissatisfied with the way they chosen, but in the end there's nothing that can be done. I only hope SP will be more faithful next time and publishes an original PC version, instead creating family-friendly mashups for sake of quick and effortless monetization.

[Scars Unseen]

I'll definitely be getting this.  For me, the H-Scenes were the worst written part of Grisaia no Kajitsu, and I ended up skipping through them after the first couple I read through.  I'm not completely anti-H(I actually read erotica from time to time), but I do dislike how jarring the change in writing quality is.

[cryofrzd]

I often skip H scenes and don't personally care that much for them in many cases. But, I expect translators to try to translate the story not cutting off the rough parts. That's called an "rendering" no matter how mild it is, it's not a translation of the original work.

[Scars Unseen]

I often skip H scenes and don't personally care that much for them in many cases. But, I expect translators to try to translate the story not cutting off the rough parts. That's called an "rendering" no matter how mild it is, it's not a translation of the original work.

Even when it was the original developer that cut the H?  From what I've been reading, Sekai Project isn't cutting anything; they're just using a version of the VN that has the H-scenes cut(and some additional content added).

[Karakkan]

Even when it was the original developer that cut the H?  From what I've been reading, Sekai Project isn't cutting anything; they're just using a version of the VN that has the H-scenes cut(and some additional content added).

From what I've been reading, Sekai Project isn't cutting anything; they're just using a version of the VN that has the H-scenes cut(and some additional content added).

Sekai Project isn't cutting anything; they're just using a version of the VN that has the H-scenes cut

Sekai Project isn't cutting anything;

Ding ding ding!

This is why people comparing it to the Moenovel fiasco are fools perpetrating false information. Sekai didn't cut or edit shit; they're using the 17+ version of the game released for Vita last year so that it can be distributed through digital platforms like steam (which would not allow an AO game to be released, which is what an eroge with sex scenes would be classified as).

[zoom909]

Even when it was the original developer that cut the H?  From what I've been reading, Sekai Project isn't cutting anything; they're just using a version of the VN that has the H-scenes cut(and some additional content added).

 

It isn't the original developer though.

FrontWing made the PC game.

Prototype made the PSV version.

(Not that it should matter who cut it, it only matters what exactly they cut and whether it affects your appreciation of the game or not)

[Scars Unseen]

It isn't the original developer though.

FrontWing made the PC game.

Prototype made the PSV version.

(Not that it should matter who cut it, it only matters what exactly they cut and whether it affects your appreciation of the game or not)

 

 

Okay, now we're splitting hairs.  The question was about what translators should do.  They are translating an officially released version of the game with no changes(that we know of).  And for that matter, what did Prototype actually do?  They are listed as a publisher, not a developer.  If you're going to lay blame on them for cutting the H, are you also going to credit them for writing the new scenes, adding new voices or updating the artwork?

[Decay]

Since a lot of people still seem unconvinced that they won't tone down the sexual humor, references to sex, etc, here's a screenshot of the Vita version of the game that was posted on VNDB: http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201307230047/image/8/ Do not click this at work. You probably should not let your kids play this game.

[Mephisto]

She's just pretty much naked and washing his back, totally safe for kids. She says it herself. 

[sanahtlig]

Releasing this as a non-adult title will likely improve sales, especially if it gets on Steam (although I'm not convinced Steam will allow it).  IF it gets on Steam, there's no doubt they made the right business decision.

 

That doesn't make me happy about this.  But the fact of the matter is that the Western eroge market exists in a bubble that's barely sustaining itself.  Despite tens of thousands of fans (>60,000 registered on VNDB alone), the actual customer base is tiny (even popular titles often don't even reach 2000 sales).  The market has gotten so rotten that run-of-the-mill nukige outsell even high-profile story-centric eroge.  What message do you think that sends to VN localization companies?

 

What we're seeing is a glimpse into the future of the VN market: a future where localization groups splinter along nukige and all-ages lines, leaving story-focused eroge fans out to dry.  And I'm not happy about it.  Story-focused eroge fans should see this as a warning: voices without money behind them will fall on deaf ears.

 

As for me: I won't be supporting this release unless the H-scenes are officially reinstated.  Which won't happen.  Once you side with the moral majority, there's no turning back.

[Scars Unseen]

As for me: I won't be supporting this release unless the H-scenes are officially reinstated.  Which won't happen.  Once you side with the moral majority, there's no turning back.

 

Then find or start an alternative distribution method that has as much sales potential as putting a game on Steam so that unedited versions can have a financially viable way of getting said versions to the west.  Otherwise all you're really saying is "I don't support the sale of Japanese visual novels in the western market."

 

First comes awareness.  Then comes economic viability.  Then comes options.  If no one knows or cares about the medium, and if you can't prove that the medium can sell, then you have no choice but to work within the existing constraints of the western market.  You have to be able to bring something to the bargaining table(i.e. customers) before you can set terms.

 

Let me put it another way.  You won't support this release due to cut content(or rather that they are using a version of the VN that doesn't contain the content you want).  But let's paint a possible scenario here.  Let's say that people do support the official localization of Grisaia no Kajitsu.  Let's say that it makes enough money that Frontwing gives the greenlight to an official localization of the sequels.

 

Now let's say that due to the success of those sales, we can then convince Sekai Project to release through distributors other than just Steam so that an unedited version could be available for those that want it.  After all, once we have proven that such an effort could be worthwhile economically, our own voices then count for more than they would if we all just continued to pirate or only buy Japanese versions.

 

Would that not be a favorable situation?  Would that not be worth putting money down, and furthermore, contacting Sekai Project and letting them know your reasons for putting your money down?  You claim that there is no turning back, but that sentiment ignores that there is currently no road leading where you want to go.

 

Shouldn't we take steps to build one?

[sanahtlig]

 

Now let's say that due to the success of those sales, we can then convince Sekai Project to release through distributors other than just Steam so that an unedited version could be available for those that want it.  After all, once we have proven that such an effort could be worthwhile economically, our own voices then count for more than they would if we all just continued to pirate or only buy Japanese versions.

Once you release a title on Steam, that game is bound to Steam's terms of service.  If you go release other versions with adult content, Steam will likely remove the title and ban the company from Steam.  That's how the moral majority enforces their will.

 

Here's an excerpt from the publisher of Reccetear on why they don't work on adult titles.  While it turns out his claims didn't turn out to be entirely true (Mangagamer has titles on Steam), it gives you an idea of how adult content can poison the well when it comes to doing business.

http://new.spring.me/#!/SpaceDrakeCF/q/277898826382050043

 

As MoeNovel did before it, Sekai Project had to make a decision: to market their games as porn, or to market them as "not porn".  You have to pick one side or the other, because there's no inbetween.

 

As for my $50, well that's my business.  If I take my $50 and give it to JAST instead, that certainly doesn't mean "I don't support the sale of Japanese visual novels in the western market."

[Narcosis]

The only thing that boogles me is a simple fact that western publishing companies are unable to sell their eroge. They can't even sell sex. You're reading it right. Can you fall any lower than that?

 

They localize eroge titles to the west and complain later on, that they are unable to sell enough copies to sustain their business and make a living out of it. I see various people placing all the blame on the community itself, while it's the publishers, who are actually doing something wrong. How is that possible, they aren't even unable to sell their products properly? Please enlighten me.

[Darklord Rooke]

The only thing that boogles me is a simple fact that western publishing companies are unable to sell their eroge. They can't even sell sex. You're reading it right. Can you fall any lower than that?

 

The porn industry used to be a moderately powerful industry, today it's on its knees. Sex doesn't sell anymore because with the internet you can get it for free.

[Decay]

Once you release a title on Steam, that game is bound to Steam's terms of service.  If you go release other versions with adult content, Steam will likely remove the title and ban the company from Steam.  That's how the moral majority enforces their will.

 

Here's an excerpt from the publisher of Reccetear on why they don't work on adult titles.  While it turns out his claims didn't turn out to be entirely true (Mangagamer has titles on Steam), it gives you an idea of how adult content can poison the well when it comes to doing business.

http://new.spring.me/#!/SpaceDrakeCF/q/277898826382050043

 

As MoeNovel did before it, Sekai Project had to make a decision: to market their games as porn, or to market them as "not porn".  You have to pick one side or the other, because there's no inbetween.

 

As for my $50, well that's my business.  If I take my $50 and give it to JAST instead, that certainly doesn't mean "I don't support the sale of Japanese visual novels in the western market."

 

That is a really old and outdated statement. That statement is from the pre-greenlight days, and again, things are very different now. Acceptance onto Steam is far less arbitrary. Take everything ever said prior to august 2012 about what Valve does and doesn't allow on Steam and throw it all out. There are now very few automatic denials. Pornographic content is one of them. An alternate version available elsewhere being pornographic is not one of them. I don't think such a thing has ever been tested but it's not against the steam publishing TOS and Valve is no longer able to deny a game based on their own point of view. Back in the day, they used to be really afraid to allow games with an anime art style on Steam. It was a miracle Recettear was allowed on. A game that used to be pornographic? Never in a million years. That wasn't a hard and fast rule, it was just based on Valve's own thoughts of what would and wouldn't be profitable or accepted by the PC gaming community. They were pretty narrow-minded, but that's also one of the reasons why their acceptance process was so heavily criticized. The process has changed completely since then and Valve makes no personal judgements on what is and isn't allowed. As long as a game meets its pretty loose set of publishing guidelines, and the publisher passed through Greenlight, it's allowed.

 

Some of his points are still valid, though. The American public's perception of a company or work of fiction becomes very much tainted when pornography gets involved. This goes for gamers, as well. Going back to what I said a couple days ago, this might be why Sekai Project hasn't fully committed to releasing Grisaia on Steam despite being able to. Their version isn't pornographic, but there exists a version that is. That may be enough to taint many gamers' perception of Sekai Project. Or it may not be, nothing like this has ever been tried on Steam. It's hard to say. If they do it and it works out, expect JAST to give it a shot with Aselia at long last, I guess.

 

The only thing that boogles me is a simple fact that western publishing companies are unable to sell their eroge. They can't even sell sex. You're reading it right. Can you fall any lower than that?

 

They localize eroge titles to the west and complain later on, that they are unable to sell enough copies to sustain their business and make a living out of it. I see various people placing all the blame on the community itself, while it's the publishers, who are actually doing something wrong. How is that possible, they aren't even unable to sell their products properly? Please enlighten me.

 

That's how the American market is. Non-porn always outsells porn. Porn is just profitable because of how cheap it is to make. When it becomes exactly as expensive to release porn as non-porn, guess what a company will decide to do.

[sanahtlig]

Right now a purchase of Sekai Project's Grisaia is a vote for more all-ages Grisaia releases.  Some people may want that.  I don't, and I'm not going to fund something I don't want.

 

There are now very few automatic denials. Pornographic content is one of them. An alternate version available elsewhere being pornographic is not one of them. I don't think such a thing has ever been tested but it's not against the steam publishing TOS and Valve no longer able to deny a game based on their own point of view.

Then Sekai Project will have no issue releasing an ero version / patch alongside the all-ages version.

 

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Decay]

I've edited the post to more thoroughly address the issue. There may not be a problem if they're only worried about being able to sell it, but perception may alter to the point where they actually get less sales by having the option.  They have to weigh the potential sales lost from people realizing it's a "porn game in disguise"' vs the sales gained from people who wouldn't buy a 17+ version but would buy an 18+ version.

 

edit: I will say that I'm not exactly a moralist and my personal point of view is obviously not in line with what I'm saying here. I'd buy an 18+ version if it was the only one available, and I'd buy a 17+ version if that was the only one. I'm not sure what I'd do if there were both versions available. I'm just talking about the general gaming market. Like it or not, but part of the process of making visual novels popular in America is divorcing it from porn, at least at first. Once you get enough people okay with the idea of VNs, I think eroge will become more popular at the same time, but trying to market eroge to the masses would be a mistake.