Zakamutt Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 #lolJAST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyrt Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 To be clear, Frontwing does not want an 18+ release directly associated with the Kickstarter, so at the moment we cannot offer them as tier rewards. The reason for this has less to do with "profit" than their cautious attitude towards releasing adult content in the West. There is a possibility backers will receive credit towards eventual uncut 18+ releases. We are trying to make this happen. The Vita edition of the games are M-rated and make relatively minor changes to non-sexual content, while adding new CGs and scenes. We do not plan to remove or "censor" content from the Vita game, and may restore some unnecessary textual changes where possible. Screw it I like the game too much and as long as the vita version remains textually and graphically unchanged then I'll go ahead and back this. Won't back huge amounts like I planned but I'll back enough for each game. I really should be more concerned about visual novels releasing here and changing perspectives than enhancing the idea that visual novel fans only care about pron. It has been confirmed that if the kickstarter succeeds the 18+ version will be coming a month or 2 later via Denpasoft (18+ version of sekai project?). It seems that Frontwing's reason for keeping a disconnect of the 18+ related to the kickstarter has more to do with their beliefs and more cautious attitude towards releasing adult content in the West. If it's mentioned on the kickstarter page the 18+ content will be more in the spotlight and possibly gather the attention of fools like equality now (rapelay incident) or CNN (akumatsu incident) (responsible for trying to villainize all visual novels, manga, and anime as child porn and violence against women). We can thank EN and CNN for a lot of visual novel companies reluctance to even try the Western market and to be honest although I think it's been long enough I do understand their concerns...so it seems less of a cash grab than I thought. The possibility of backers receiving cred towards the eventual uncut 18+ release is something sekai project is adamantly trying to make happen. I like what sekai project is trying to do. I will hope for the best and I'll go ahead and support this endeavor as long as no removal or censorship of the vita game is imminent. With this I am done on this issue and will take a risk with this. If it ends up working out then it will be great. Do understand that for all 3 games it is now less than 200 dollars (120) whereas before each game would have cost between 60-80. In this way they are giving some leeway to pick up the 18+ version after the fact for only about 40-60 dollars more (for all 3 together) than it would have been originally. If we get discounts we might even be fine. You also then would have two versions of the game one you could give away or read in public. “If you dare nothing,then when the day is over,nothing is all you will have gained.” -Neil Gaiman I'm gonna go ahead and dare. Dare that visual novels will find a means of being successful in the West. This is a new idea and a new method of trying things if it succeeds it could open up a ton of other possibilities...hell we already saw the results of one kickstarter via Clannad. This is the first potential All-Ages title with an attachment to 18+ content...sure it might not arrive right away but hell 2 of the games still remain untranslated and I for one want to see the story. I'm probably an idiot but I hope people will think on it and once the kickstarter pops up think about whether or not they want to see a spread of vns or keep it a few vns translated by dedicated fan translators and a few companies? This has the possibility to open up a lot of doors... BookwormOtaku 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 There are people out there who play them actually, a couple of which I can think of on this very forum. I personally don't have a fundamental issue with all-ages editions myself and don't see any valid reason to, given that we are also provided with the option of an 18+ full release. In fact, I'd say more options as a consumer is a good thing (admittedly, you can make an argument against this). Um an all age version is never the full version of the game in certain Vn's the H-Scenes are pretty important parts of the VN so cutting them is also cutting a chunk of the story away. Also playing all age versions cause "You cant handle H-scenes" is just a indicator that you need to grow up and realize that sexual content is not this wrong forbidden thing you should never do or watch but more so that it's an adult act how ever if people have such issue with this there are quite a few 18+ games with the option to turn off the h-content all together the need for releasing two versions is pointless if you can just have the option to turn it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 New koestl, for anyone that cares: koestlTranslator 4m For those interested in the eventual 18+ version: It seems there's a good chance we will be able to offer uncensored / mosaic-free CGs in this release. nohman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 um so basicly they're leaving teh sex scenes but removing the gore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nohman Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Um an all age version is never the full version of the game in certain Vn's the H-Scenes are pretty important parts of the VN so cutting them is also cutting a chunk of the story away. I never called an all-ages edition a full release. I said I don't really see a problem with them as long as they're released beside a complete edition of a game. I get why most people (myself included) prefer to play the 18+ version, but I also don't care if other people have their reasons for wanting not to. Doesn't affect me in the least if there are two versions of the game, provided one of them is an uncensored release. Also playing all age versions cause "You cant handle H-scenes" is just a indicator that you need to grow up and realize that sexual content is not this wrong forbidden thing you should never do or watch but more so that it's an adult act how ever if people have such issue with this there are quite a few 18+ games with the option to turn off the h-content all together the need for releasing two versions is pointless if you can just have the option to turn it off. Wanting to play some porn games is what originally brought me to visual novels, however I get that other people have a distaste for them for a variety of reasons. That's beside the point I was trying to make though, that the option of an all-ages version of a game doesn't really hurt a thing from a consumer's standpoint. New koestl, for anyone that cares: koestlTranslator 4m For those interested in the eventual 18+ version: It seems there's a good chance we will be able to offer uncensored / mosaic-free CGs in this release. I don't really like all these "seems" and 'probabilities," but that sounds like good news. It'll be good to hear something more concrete, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 um so basicly they're leaving teh sex scenes but removing the gore no... they're not removing the gore in the 18+ version if/when it happens. Gore removal would be in the initial all-ages release only. Where do you even get these ideas of the 18+ release being censored? Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 that was a mis read on my part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flutterz Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 New koestl, for anyone that cares: koestlTranslator 4m For those interested in the eventual 18+ version: It seems there's a good chance we will be able to offer uncensored / mosaic-free CGs in this release. Zenophilious, Kurisu-Chan and RinXD 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 meh why do we have to back a censored version just to be able to eventually, and this is not even a sure thing, later have the uncut version of the novel that is not going to be mentioned at all in the main campaign?(that probably if eventually is released you will have to buy yet again...) I don't support this, so many ifs, so many excuses. "The reason for this has less to do with "profit" than their cautious attitude towards releasing adult content in the West." that's sounds like bs all over, I'm not saying this for koest, just a complain to Front Wing and their shitty attitude towards their public and fans which is us...they are selling what they are selling, don't try to deny or make it something that it's not, Grisaia is a vn oriented to an adult public if you dont like it just start a new IP dont screw everyone censoring the product you are trying to sell us, and not even that because kickstarter is not even selling the games we are crowdfunding it for the future.... This is the worst attitude that Front Wing can have towards their audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The problem with this is they think the WEST has the same censorship as they do when it comes to porn and we dont since none of the Western based "porn" Ive seen has ever been censored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Well but we are not talking only about porn here the vita version is censored in the plot itself :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ok point being the West produces gorey movies and uncensored porn so why they are so worried about making a censored release is beyond me the West is not japan where such arbirtrary censorship laws exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 And they are trying to release a product here, not even that they are trying to crowdfunding it!!! We are not Japan, that mentality they are taking is just plain stupid. RinXD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I whole heartedly agree but they have done this with just about every game they have ported over here hell even games like phantasy star were changed cause they japanese seem to think it would not suit our western sensibilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambda Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Um an all age version is never the full version of the game in certain Vn's the H-Scenes are pretty important parts of the VN so cutting them is also cutting a chunk of the story away. Also playing all age versions cause "You cant handle H-scenes" is just a indicator that you need to grow up and realize that sexual content is not this wrong forbidden thing you should never do or watch but more so that it's an adult act how ever if people have such issue with this there are quite a few 18+ games with the option to turn off the h-content all together the need for releasing two versions is pointless if you can just have the option to turn it off. Admittedly, this is an attitude I despise in vn players, so forgive me for the attitude, but hey! This straight woman doesn't want to constantly read sex scenes aimed at guys, and otoges aren't translated very often or have the same level of story! People playing in public want options, too! Could you not tell a 20-year-old woman to "grow up" because she dislikes sex scenes in vns? There are reasons for it. Not only that - this may sound like a concept, but bear with me - if the original author writes the additional scenes, there's no censorship and it follows their intent. The important question here is whether the original authors wrote the vita content, but someone working for Frontwing certainly did or approved it, and I'm frankly getting sick of the VN scene's utter dependence on sex scenes when a hell of a lot of the time they're simple opportunities to fap that believe it or not can be replaced. Dizzyworld2, nohman and Emi 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Admittedly, this is an attitude I despise in vn players, so forgive me for the attitude, but hey! Straight woman doesn't want to constantly read sex scenes aimed at guys, and otoges aren't translated very often or have the same level of story! People playing in public want options, too! Could you not tell a 20-year-old woman to "grow up" because she dislikes sex scenes in vns? There are reasons for it. Not only that - this may sound like a concept, but bear with me - if the original author writes the additional scenes, there's no censorship and it follows their intent. The important question here is whether the original authors wrote the vita content, but someone working for Frontwing certainly did or approved it, and I'm frankly getting sick of the VN scene's utter dependence on sex scenes when a hell of a lot of the time they're simple opportunities to fap that believe it or not can be replaced. Eroge is adult content to begin with calling it anything else is pointless and sex scenes Lets talk about all the smut romance novels that wome indulge themselves in that are much more vivid and explicit then the content in a eroge. If you cant handle the content as originally written then dont read it not everyone looks at H-Scenes as reasons to fap. Eroge is orginally intended for an adult audience hence why it normally comes with them scenes. Deep Blue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambda Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Eroge is adult content to begin with calling it anything else is pointless and sex scenes Lets talk about all the smut romance novels that women indulge themselves in that are much more vivid and explicit then the content in a eroge. If you cant handle the content as originally written then dont read it not everyone looks at H-Scenes as reasons to fap. Eroge is orginally intended for an adult audience hence why it normally comes with them scenes. Cool! Yeah, let's talk about the smut romance novels! The novels I don't read! Because! I! Don't! Like! Erotic! Content! Yeahhh! Let's talk about "smut romance novels" with story not on the level of a nukige! That sounds like an interesting topic! What one would you say has humour on par with Grisaia? Or characters? I'm curious. Go for it. One that gets guys to read it as well as girls. Wow, they must feel marginalized with all the erotic content clearly not aimed at them surrounded by that great story they want to enjoy. They write them originally with erotic content and then, hey! They remove it! Because they want other people to play! The original developers decide, "hey, we understand that requiring erotic content in our game is kinda restrictive, so let's take it out!" And there's nothing wrong with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Alright, let's all calm down a bit. This may blow up soon. It's fine to express your opinion, as long as you keep discussion civil. Posts that don't do that will be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambda Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Alright, let's all calm down a bit. This may blow up soon. It's fine to express your opinion, as long as you keep discussion civil. Posts that don't do that will be removed. Sorry. Will find my centre. Meditation's good for that, right? I'm still excited for this... and hoping it gets funded somehow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Cool! Yeah, let's talk about the smut romance novels! The novels I don't read! Because! I! Don't! Like! Erotic! Content! Yeahhh! Let's talk about "smut romance novels" with story not on the level of a nukige! That sounds like an interesting topic! What one would you say has humour on par with Grisaia? Or characters? I'm curious. Go for it. One that gets guys to read it as well as girls. Wow, they must feel marginalized with all the erotic content clearly not aimed at them surrounded by that great story they want to enjoy. They write them originally with erotic content and then, hey! They remove it! Because they want other people to play! The original developers decide, "hey, we understand that requiring erotic content in our game is kinda restrictive, so let's take it out!" And there's nothing wrong with it. well but the point here is that they removed not only the h-scenes but parts of the plot itself (not sex-related), back to the h-scenes many vns have the option to turn them off, just as simple as that, give the player the option and for me this is worst because they are doing it just to grab more money, I don't believe the argument of them having a cautious attitude towards releasing adult content in the West and either way censorship is always a bad thing, it doesn't matter why they are doing it, then again this is just my personal opinion. RinXD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyrt Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This entire issue is a clusterfuck as I've said before. It's a mess. Nothing is happening as it should. I am horribly disappointed with this. I am however willing to back sekai project. I may not be happy with Frontwing at the moment but I believe in what Sekai Project wishes to do. The fact they tried to give us what we want but got countered by the rights owners who likely were worried about western reaction to sex/nudity/violence as well as wanted to try and find a means for extra profit. This is a cash grab regardless of whether that is the main purpose...if they perhaps give backers a voucher/or 75 percent off discount for the 18+ version (the cost ends up being about the same as the initial cost for the prefundia goal they had originally) it wouldn't be too much different. If they do this. Personally I think the only way that they can possibly make it succeed is by giving backers if not both games then the option of which one they want...or hell a patch available on their website a la sunrider. The idea of having them separate I admit is complete bullshit (at least their reasoning) it's totally cash driven motive. So because I want to trust Sekai Project I'm going to give this the benefit of the doubt...I also don't think there is any chance in hell after this recent revelation about the plans that it can make the goal anyway so my money will likely just come back to me. Censorship is always bad. Always no ifs and buts. However they are saying they will have two versions...this isn't censorship. (admittedly the wording is a bit vague and needs to be more concrete). If they censor aspects of the all age versions text then yeah it will be censorship and I will not be supporting as long as they don't do that then fine I will try and see how little money they actually get...admittedly I won't back until around the last minute probably so Frontwing can see how poorly this decision will go. I want to know if this one time try at kickstarter in its current state is a won or done deal. Deep Blue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RinXD Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I dont know I dont think too many people are gonna wanna shove money at them until they give detailed PR releases about what to expect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambda Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 well but the point here is that they removed not only the h-scenes but parts of the plot itself (not sex-related), back to the h-scenes many vns have the option to turn them off, just as simple as that, give the player the option and for me this is worst because they are doing it just to grab more money, I don't believe the argument of them having a cautious attitude towards releasing adult content in the West and either way censorship is always a bad thing, it doesn't matter why they are doing it, then again this is just my personal opinion. ....I'm gonna be calm and centred (of course, my main argument was about RinXD's derogatory comments towards people who don't want sex in their games). Frankly, this is a whole new market for Frontwing. There are three real companies in this market: Sekai Project, which has shown the greatest amount of profit/support in its all-ages ventures (very few of its games are 18+, remember), Mangagamer (which, by its own staff's admissions, is barely keeping afloat/relies on non-story games to make its money - even when the story games have sex, they're crap shoots), and JAST (and we're surprised they're even releasing a game!). It's not surprising they're a little bit cautious. Add in the fact that in Japan, the 18+ and all-ages games are considered so different they need different titles. Their course of action isn't the most shocking thing. Sekai Project's PR, of course, needs work. But this sounds like a new thing. It actually sounds like they're still in negotiations with Frontwing and trying to work this out.... I'd wait a little before the knee-jerk reactions to how they're handling this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 No 18+ version with initial kick starter? Ha! I suggest pushing through a free rogue fan translation of the other games and this can fall flat on its face. I don't trust this project anymore RinXD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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