Jump to content

Sekai Project Official Grisaia Translation?


douggle

Recommended Posts

The porn industry used to be a moderately powerful industry, today it's on its knees. Sex doesn't sell anymore because with the internet you can get it for free.

That's a very wide generalization. You don't see less porn nowadays; publishers and creators simply switched to digital distribution platforms. Only those, who don't adapt have issues. As much as a lot of services partially suffer from the strength of internet which overshadows certain outdated business models, the real problem lies within the markets themselves - there's a lot more competition nowadays than there ever was, and it's much harder to stay afloat, unless you're really good in said business and/or have quality products with attractive pricing to offer to your consumers.

 

I could say the biggest dillema we have to cope with is the fact that western culture still isn't feeling secure enough to talk about erotic life in the public; the vast majority of people will point out fingers and state how "bad" those games are, trying to justify their point of view with ridiculous statements, that eroge like this corrupts kids, those who play them are people with issues etc. You know how it rolls. It's kind of getting tiresome; as much as things have been slowly changing for the better, certain countries with the most exposition and at the same time the most morally radical communities (such as US) have became increasingly more possesive about it. I'm not even entirely sure where does it come from, but it's certainly a problem, especially when such people try to force their worldviews upon others.

 

As for the Carpe Fulgur guys, they have been working in the doujin industry for long enough to know certain things; As much as I can't agree with them entirely, it's how everything rolls right now on the west. Besides, they are dealing with a specific part of doujin industry already and I doubt they would ever have the need to readjust; after all, they are sitting on a goldmine and it's only up to them on how they want to dig in. In other words - they are playing it safe and they have no need, nor aren't interested to put their business at risk.

 

News edit:

One of the SP's CEO's stated on twitter, they have a possible solution for Grisaia's 18+ western release and Steam already approved it. More info in the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the SP's CEO's stated on twitter, they have a possible solution for Grisaia's 18+ western release and Steam already approved it. More info in the future.

This could possibly be paradigm shifting, with consequences for the entire VN localization scene.  If JAST and Mangagamer can boost sales of story-focused titles by releasing dual versions with one version on Steam, that could provide a path towards long-term sustainability.

 

Definitely something to keep an eye on.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This could possibly be paradigm shifting, with consequences for the entire VN localization scene.  If JAST and Mangagamer can boost sales of story-focused titles by releasing dual versions with one version on Steam, that could provide a path towards long-term sustainability.

 

Definitely something to keep an eye on.  

 

On that we agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing that boogles me is a simple fact that western publishing companies are unable to sell their eroge. They can't even sell sex. You're reading it right. Can you fall any lower than that?

 

They localize eroge titles to the west and complain later on, that they are unable to sell enough copies to sustain their business and make a living out of it. I see various people placing all the blame on the community itself, while it's the publishers, who are actually doing something wrong. How is that possible, they aren't even unable to sell their products properly? Please enlighten me.

In the US at least, we've created 2 conceptual "bins" for entertainment: porn, and "not porn".  Into the porn bin, we throw everything with sexually explicit content, regardless of the content of the work as a whole.  Porn by cultural tradition does not have literary or artistic value; its main objective is serving the prurient interest.  Porn even has a special legal status as speech not protected by the 1st amendment, and therefore subject to state-sponsored censorship.  We live in a society that treats porn as taboo: you don't talk about it, you don't admit to having it or liking it.

 

Enter eroge, entertainment that doesn't fit easily into one of these two bins.  But since it has sexually explicit content, we throw it into the "porn" bin--regardless of the content of the work as a whole.  This excludes it from press coverage, distribution by normal routes, and even critical review.  Since it breaks the societal taboo against porn, the eroge genre is mercilessly suppressed.  That's factor #1.

 

Factor #2 is the type of crowd this genre tends to draw: young Internet-savvy males.  Many comes across eroge while searching for porn or pirated content.  They're used to getting porn for free, and have no qualms getting eroge for free either.  Those that are inclined to pay for porn are more likely to gravitate towards nukige, which give them more bang for their buck.

 

Meanwhile, the cost of developing and translating a story-focused eroge is several-fold higher than nukige.  This leaves eroge in a deadzone of high-cost low-demand entertainment.  They're arduous and costly to localize, difficult to market and distribute, and widely pirated by a callous and unsupportive "fan"base.

 

A host of companies have sprung up to try and stake a claim in the industry: Megatech Software, Himeya Soft, JAST USA, Otaku Publishing, Milky House / RCY America, Hobibox Europe, G-Collections, Kitty Media, Mangagamer, MoeNovel, Sekai Project.  Of the 9 publishers that are at least 2 years old, only 2 are still actively releasing titles: JAST USA and Mangagamer.  The rest are all inactive, defunct, or have been absorbed into JAST USA to avoid collapse.  Outsiders speculate that JAST USA only remains because it was propped up by J-List in times of need.  Mangagamer has admitted that it has come close to collapse as well, and is largely supported by its nukige sales.  JAST USA's financial situation is largely unknown.

 

Arguing that 6/8 English publishers that have entered into eroge localization in the past 20 years have failed solely due to gross ineptness is...a weak argument at best.  Clearly the problem lies in the market itself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Porn even has a special legal status as speech not protected by the 1st amendment, and therefore subject to state-sponsored censorship.  

 

This is actually not true.  What isn't protected is child pornography and "obscenity."  Obscenity is an incredibly vaguely defined category, but this is the closest we have as laid out by the Supreme Court in 1973.  These guidelines are what are taken into consideration:

 

 
  • Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest.
  • Whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law.
  • Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.

 

 

Since it's all subject to a court decision, it is impossible to claim with 100% certainty that any individual work would or would not be considered "obscene", but most pornography is not.  Further reading on the subject can be found here.

 

As for blaming the market...  how many of those companies have made their games available on Steam?  Frankly, if a publisher claims to be failing in digital distribution and hasn't even experimented  with releasing works on the most popular digital game distribution platform in the world, the market isn't at fault.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

This is actually not true.  What isn't protected is child pornography and "obscenity."  Obscenity is an incredibly vaguely defined category, but this is the closest we have as laid out by the Supreme Court in 1973.  These guidelines are what are taken into consideration:

 

 

  • Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest.
  •  
  • Whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law.
  •  
  • Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.
  •  

 

 

Since it's all subject to a court decision, it is impossible to claim with 100% certainty that any individual work would or would not be considered "obscene", but most pornography is not.  Further reading on the subject can be found here.

I define pornography as bullet points 1 and 3 (invoking the common social concept of pornography as lacking literary or artistic value, as established prior to the sentence you quoted).  By saying "it's not protected by the 1st amendment", I invoke bullet point 2--it's legal until a law says it isn't.  I'm basically invoking the legal concept of obscenity.  It would be legally incorrect to call story-focused eroge "porn" in this fashion, and that's part of my point--our social concept of porn is "wrong", and ends up arbitrarily lumping story-focused eroge together with simple collections of sex scenes.  Nonetheless, that doesn't stop these broad legal statutes from having a chilling effect on eroge localization, to the point that JAST USA censors loli content "just in case", and even Mangagamer has outlined a "line in the sand" it won't cross regarding loli content.

 

 

 

As for blaming the market...  how many of those companies have made their games available on Steam?  Frankly, if a publisher claims to be failing in digital distribution and hasn't even experimented  with releasing works on the most popular digital game distribution platform in the world, the market isn't at fault.

1) The market is a lot older than these digital distribution platforms.

2) Steam's ruleset is evolving.  JAST tried to get Aselia the Eternal on Steam and was denied.

3) Valve doesn't allow sexually explicit content on Steam.

 

Steam isn't the magic bullet that solves all problems.  If we have to rely on censored releases on Steam to fund localization of story-focused eroge, that's as much of an issue as relying on nukige sales as a funding source.  The base product still isn't selling itself.  It's just an omake thrown to the scavengers to keep them at bay.  That's still not where we want to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1) The market is a lot older than these digital distribution platforms.

2) Steam's ruleset is evolving.  JAST tried to get Aselia the Eternal on Steam and was denied.

3) Valve doesn't allow sexually explicit content on Steam.

 

Steam isn't the magic bullet that solves all problems.  If we have to rely on censored releases on Steam to fund localization of story-focused eroge, that's as much of an issue as relying on nukige sales as a funding source.  The base product still isn't selling itself.  It's just an omake thrown to the scavengers to keep them at bay.  That's still not where we want to be.

 

In order to compete in a market, you have to have presence in the market.  Once upon a time that meant major retail chains.  That is your "older than these digital distribution platforms" market.  With the rise in popularity of digital distribution, this has expanded to include major digital distribution platforms.  And while there are some alternatives, for the most part, that means Steam.  That may change in the future.  It hasn't yet.

 

The problem with your reasoning is that it puts the cart before the horse.  You can't have a successful product without demand, but you won't have demand without either spending a ton on marketing(which they can't afford) or putting your product in a highly visible position in the market(e.g. Steam).  No, Steam is not a magic bullet, but hiding your product out of view is filling your gun with duds.

 

If and when visual novels become a profitable niche(because it will never be totally mainstream) and you have people actively searching for your product, then you can talk about making exclusively AO products.  I wouldn't recommend it though.  There is a reason that there are 17+ and All Ages versions of eroge even in Japan.  I'm not sure what makes you think that a marketing strategy that is needed in Japan wouldn't be needed in the west too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The majority of VN releases in Japan are 18+.  All-ages releases are the exception, not the rule.  PC VNs without H-content tend to fall flat over there.  The disappointing sales of Supipara for example were blamed by some on the lack of H-content.  Minori did an about-face with Natsuzora no Perseus and that was much more successful, even though the latter seems to have lower scores on VNDB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The majority of VN releases in Japan are 18+.  All-ages releases are the exception, not the rule.  PC VNs without H-content tend to fall flat over there.  The disappointing sales of Supipara for example were blamed by some on the lack of H-content.  Minori did an about-face with Natsuzora no Perseus and that was much more successful, even though the latter seems to have lower scores on VNDB.

VNDB though is typically a western type site though. so that would make more sense, you would need to check the egs scores.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have already spent around 300 dollars to buy Grisia no Kajitsu and its two sequels in anticipation that they will be fan translated too.

 

I don't like the fact that sekai project is now doing Grisia no Kajitsu as it might result in no fan translation for the two sequels of the game.

 

Also this "official" translation will be an all ages version. Most of the entertainment value during the long common route is the adult humor. The later stories contained a lot of adult content too and it's hard to imagine these stories being as good without that adult content. Even the H-scenes, which were my least favorite portion of this visual novel, would be missed if they were removed.

 

Companies sole purpose is to make money. Supporting a neutered visual novel market will result in us getting more neutered visual novels, and not translated works with all their original content and ideas intact.

 

If this release was a full and proper release, and not a censored version, I'd buy it for sure as I really liked this visual novel. Spending more money solely to support the gimping of one of my favorite visual novels, I'm not so sure is a good idea though...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also this "official" translation will be an all ages version. Most of the entertainment value during the long common route is the adult humor. The later stories contained a lot of adult content too and it's hard to imagine these stories being as good without that adult content. Even the H-scenes, which were my least favorite portion of this visual novel, would be missed if they were removed.

 

As mentioned many a times before, the adult humor will likely not be lost, even if it were to be an "all ages" (actually 17+) version. This all ages version is officially supported by Frontwig.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is actually talks of them being able to do an 18+ version after all. If you followed the /r/visual novels reddit, you can see they are trying to do just that. herkz, and the president of Sekai Project post in there.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I checked out the reddit thread and it sounds like this realse might not ruin future fan translation of the sequals, so that's good. If they do release an official adult version as well I'll buy that copy, otherwise I've already spend enough to support this game \ don't want to encourage more gimped releases.

 

 

 

 

As mentioned many a times before, the adult humor will likely not be lost, even if it were to be an "all ages" (actually 17+) version. This all ages version is officially supported by Frontwig.

 

 

Sorry. I didn't read a lot of the posts, and just wanted to add my two cents because this was one of my favorite games. If many other people have voiced the same concerns then that's a good thing ^_^.

 

 

Can't help but think "If manga gamer was doing this release we'd just get the original and maybe even an uncencored version and we'd not be seeing these big threads full of worry".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Boo at all-ages.. Now i am sad that Meikyuu and Rakuen might not even be translated in its complete versions.   :angry:

Ehhh...I have my doubts about an "all-ages" Grisaia, even if it's supported by Frontwing.  I admit, I'm a cynic, so that might be it, but still...

I'm seriously wondering whether I'm the one who doesn't understand English or you guys are.

https://twitter.com/...741478337482753 - Working on Sekai project.

 

Let's analyze this sentence, shall we?

They'll - Referring to steam

want explicit stuff out - H-Scenes

but off steam - Outside Steams jurisdiction

18+ - H-Scenes

patch is ok. - We'll get H-Scenes

 

Now let's see what it means:

"Steam wants H-Scenes out of the game, but outside steam there can be an 18+ patch."

 

Of course, this doesn't mean they'll do it, though. We don't really know yet. They said earlier that they were working on it so one would assume so.

At any rate, Sekai is doing their bloody best (or making us think they are) to get it both on steam, and still keep the whole game. 

 

Best case scenario: Grisaia PSVita version comes out on steam English translated and the 18+ version can be acquired somewhere else (patch or otherwise)

 

Worst case scenario: They quit this whole shenanigans. PSVita version comes out English translated. 18+ version nowhere to be seen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...