Jump to content

Visual Novels are evil?


Recommended Posts

To me, when it comes to having a virtual girlfriend, it depends on what you believe the purpose of love is. If you believed its to have babies  and populate the earth (yes, some people really believe that), then such a concept would tantamount to blasphemy. But, if you just love for the sake of it, I suppose theirs anything wrong with having a virtual girlfriend (or waifu).

 

But i still cant help but feel such a future would be sad...

I don't really think that comparison can even exist. A virtual girlfriend/waifu would simply be a one-direction relationship between you and the idolized version of a real person.

There's nothing 'wrong' per se, but it does not and isn't able to substitute a real person.

Also, I think even that is being misunderstanded. Love in the real world does not imply having babies and populating the earth, it's simply having a partner in life.

Link to post
Share on other sites

*Hears topic related to Anthropology*

 

My people need me, I must go. 

 

I've actually studied this, what he's saying is completely false.  It's has nothing (scientifically nothing is impossible there will always be extreme cases) to do with VNs, dating sims, or the like.  It has to do with industrialization.  Once a country enters the "post-industrialized" era, it beings to experience (that's right) population decline.  The same thing is starting to happen to a lot of western Europe.  The U.S. would follow if not for immigration.  Here's a short article of what I'm saying.  So if VNs are rare everywhere outside of Japan, and other countries are starting to have the same problem, we can probably say this is false. 

 

Any questions?  I'll expect a short-essay explaining the relationship between industrialization and population changes on my desk by Friday.  ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really think that comparison can even exist. A virtual girlfriend/waifu would simply be a one-direction relationship between you and the idolized version of a real person.

There's nothing 'wrong' per se, but it does not and isn't able to substitute a real person.

Also, I think even that is being misunderstanded. Love in the real world does not imply having babies and populating the earth, it's simply having a partner in life.

ummmm, i know this is extremely off topic but... wtf's loliconia?!

 

 

*Hears topic related to Anthropology*

 

My people need me, I must go. 

 

I've actually studied this, what he's saying is completely false.  It's has nothing (scientifically nothing is impossible there will always be extreme cases) to do with VNs, dating sims, or the like.  It has to do with industrialization.  Once a country enters the "post-industrialized" era, it beings to experience (that's right) population decline.  The same thing is starting to happen to a lot of western Europe.  The U.S. would follow if not for immigration.  Here's a short article of what I'm saying.  So if VNs are rare everywhere outside of Japan, and other countries are starting to have the same problem, we can probably say this is false. 

 

Any questions?  I'll expect a short-essay explaining the relationship between industrialization and population changes on my desk by Friday.  ;)

*see's big words. Runs away like a chicken*

No but seriously, It's a world problem know, eh? well, since you do sound like an expert (and since you can correctly spell big words) I have a  few questions for you:

1. seeing the way things are in japan, do you think there gonna start allowing more immigrants in and start making it easier to become Japanese?

2. Is immigration really the best solution for this problem? If not, then what is?

Link to post
Share on other sites

*Hears topic related to Anthropology*

 

My people need me, I must go. 

 

I've actually studied this, what he's saying is completely false.  It's has nothing (scientifically nothing is impossible there will always be extreme cases) to do with VNs, dating sims, or the like.  It has to do with industrialization.  Once a country enters the "post-industrialized" era, it beings to experience (that's right) population decline.  The same thing is starting to happen to a lot of western Europe.  The U.S. would follow if not for immigration.  Here's a short article of what I'm saying.  So if VNs are rare everywhere outside of Japan, and other countries are starting to have the same problem, we can probably say this is false. 

 

Any questions?  I'll expect a short-essay explaining the relationship between industrialization and population changes on my desk by Friday.  ;)

Not surprising, considering that our post-modern capitalism demands that we dedicate our youths to our professional life if we want to achieve any grade of success, leaving child-making for way later than it has always used to be thorough history.

 

 

ummmm, i know this is extremely off topic but... wtf's loliconia?!

 

 

*see's big words. Runs away like a chicken*

No but seriously, It's a world problem know, eh? well, since you do sound like an expert (and since you can correctly spell big words) I have a  few questions for you:

1. seeing the way things are in japan, do you think there gonna start allowing more immigrants in and start making it easier to become Japanese?

2. Is immigration really the best solution for this problem? If not, then what is?

It's super off-topic, but alright : p

It's just from the Majikoi VN. A random word used by the character in my avatar to depict a land for lolis and lolicons.

 

For those questions, I'm not close to Stray Cat's knowledge on that, probably, but I think that Japan is still so hugely populated it won't make it any easier for immigrants any soon. That, coupled with the fact that Japanese are sliiightly non-tolerant with foreigners trying to become part of their society.

Link to post
Share on other sites

*see's big words. Runs away like a chicken*

No but seriously, It's a world problem know, eh? well, since you do sound like an expert (and since you can correctly spell big words) I have a  few questions for you:

1. seeing the way things are in japan, do you think there gonna start allowing more immigrants in and start making it easier to become Japanese?

2. Is immigration really the best solution for this problem? If not, then what is?

 

 

 

For those questions, I'm not close to Stray Cat's knowledge on that, probably, but I think that Japan is still so hugely populated it won't make it any easier for immigrants any soon. That, coupled with the fact that Japanese are sliiightly non-tolerant with foreigners trying to become part of their society.

 

1.) Jun is correct, the Japanese people are actually know to be extremely intolerant of immigrants (although most countries are actually).  That coupled with the difficulty of learning Japanese makes most immigrants not want to go there anyway.  Besides, I never said immigration is the answer, that's just how the U.S. is avoiding a population drop.  The key is something called "replacement level fertility", which means that every couple ideally has two kids (preferably 1 boy and 1 girl) to replace the parents. Obviously outliers exist but at least this will slow/stop the decline.  There really is now definitive answer at the moment, that's why this is a problem.

 

2.) Again, there really is no solution at the moment.  I have seen people argue for replacement migration, but I don't think that will work (especially in Japan) so they'll have to increase their own population in some way.  The government is going to have to step in and change the countries work polices, economic system, and the like if it hopes to change.  Those are areas I'm not as familiar with so I'll leave it at that.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people just pick up the topic because it is rare in other societies...I think Otaku culture is by all means a subculture in Japan...There are lots of economic and sociological factors (e.g. housing price and inflation) contributing to the social phenomena mentioned in the video. 

 

Of course there are hentai hobbies within Otakus (e.g. like ejaculating upon figures and tapestry), but how many are those? It is absurd to say the national birth rate and marriage rate will be affected by those minority. In fact, many developed countries / regions (e.g. where I live) has a remarkably low birth rate...

 

I would never say VN is evil or anti-society...But I do think they can possibly make people to be socially-inapt. :wacko:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people just pick up the topic because it is rare in other societies...I think Otaku culture is by all means a subculture in Japan...There are lots of economic and sociological factors (e.g. housing price and inflation) contributing to the social phenomena mentioned in the video. 

 

Of course there are hentai hobbies within Otakus (e.g. like ejaculating upon figures and tapestry), but how many are those? It is absurd to say the national birth rate and marriage rate will be affected by those minority. In fact, many developed countries / regions (e.g. where I live) has a remarkably low birth rate...

 

I would never say VN is evil or anti-society...But I do think they can possibly make people to be socially-inapt. :wacko:

You would never say it, but you just said it? xD

 

Like Nosebleed says, it's way too niche to be responsible of much.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah this again.. media is not the problem. It's the culture and the people starting to realize they can live another life than they're forced into. If you would ask a random Japanese highschool girl "do you want a boyfriend" a lot will answer "no I'd rather go to university" or something like it. On the other hand, I read something about the average Japanese boy/man not being that assertive by nature, also an effect of the culture. Not being assertive and the girls not taking the lead in this day and age will result in..? a lonely life I guess. And is 2D not the best way to fill the gap? 

 

I don't know that much about japanese culture, but I do know that men are expected to work extremely hard to support their families, making a lot of them feel that marrying simply is not worth it. Like the creator of the video also brought up, Japanese women also seem to have some form of image of having unreasonable expectations of their partners, which likely leads to a lot of young people feeling that they don't have much of a chance in the area. But I believe one of the more important factors could be that many of us just feel sort of... lost in modern society.

Also this^

 

And when both sides, man and woman, are not interested in getting into a relationship, there won't be many children either. Even if they would get into a relationship, a lot of woman do not want to have children, but want to work and pursue a career (or also stay home and play games all day :D )

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah this again.. media is not the problem. It's the culture and the people starting to realize they can live another life than they're forced into. If you would ask a random Japanese highschool girl "do you want a boyfriend" a lot will answer "no I'd rather go to university" or something like it. On the other hand, I read something about the average Japanese boy/man not being that assertive by nature, also an effect of the culture. Not being assertive and the girls not taking the lead in this day and age will result in..? a lonely life I guess. And is 2D not the best way to fill the gap? 

I think the best way to fill the gap would be working on being at least a bit assertive, not giving up on life and becoming a reclusive on society X)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah this again.. media is not the problem. It's the culture and the people starting to realize they can live another life than they're forced into. If you would ask a random Japanese highschool girl "do you want a boyfriend" a lot will answer "no I'd rather go to university" or something like it. On the other hand, I read something about the average Japanese boy/man not being that assertive by nature, also an effect of the culture. Not being assertive and the girls not taking the lead in this day and age will result in..? a lonely life I guess. And is 2D not the best way to fill the gap? 

 

Also this^

 

And when both sides, man and woman, are not interested in getting into a relationship, there won't be many children either. Even if they would get into a relationship, a lot of woman do not want to have children, but want to work and pursue a career (or also stay home and play games all day :D )

That's probably the main cause in my opinion.  I've heard of lots of cases (not just in Japan in all industrialized nations) where both the male and female are so busy with work, that neither thinks about a family life and then by the time they get around to it it's too late.  The average woman becomes infertile by the age of 35. Most professional schools take you until age 26 to finish so most women don't even marry until then.  Then if you have a serious career like medicine, its another 3-4 years before your life stabilizes. Which leaves you with five years to get married and have children.  I know some culture (especially Europe) deal with this by having older men marry younger women (which is much more socially acceptable there then in the U.S.) but I'm not sure how Japan feels about that.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets say the easiest way then ^^;

That mindset is exactly the problem I'm talking about xD

 

 

That's probably the main cause in my opinion.  I've heard of lots of cases (not just in Japan in all industrialized nations) where both the male and female are so busy with work, that neither thinks about a family life and then by the time they get around to it it's too late.  The average woman becomes infertile by the age of 35. Most professional schools take you until age 26 to finish so most women don't even marry until then.  Then if you have a serious career like medicine, its another 3-4 years before your life stabilizes. Which leaves you with five years to get married and have children.  I know some culture (especially Europe) deal with this by having older men marry younger women (which is much more socially acceptable there then in the U.S.) but I'm not sure how Japan feels about that.  

Where have you heard that o.o

In Europe it was 'somewhat' accepted during the last century, but nowadays it's a pretty weird and controversial thing. Of all the people my age I know (a decent number), only one girl has a partner who's quite older (she's 22, he's around 32), and even though it's not that terrible a thing, everyone around them sees that age difference as stretching the limits a bit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 The average woman becomes infertile by the age of 35.

 

Bullshit. The success rate for childbirth starts dropping considerably at age 35. I'm not an expert on the topic but I'd say average women becomes infertile at 45 or something. Infertility ≠ failure rate.

infertilitygraph.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Where have you heard that o.o

In Europe it was 'somewhat' accepted during the last century, but nowadays it's a pretty weird and controversial thing. Of all the people my age I know (a decent number), only one girl has a partner who's quite older (she's 22, he's around 32), and even though it's not that terrible a thing, everyone around them sees that age difference as stretching the limits a bit.

Can't find it now but I should have clarified more.  It used to be acceptable in place like Europe, but know it's trailing off.  I do know quite a few European families who still do this though (one has a 20 year age gap between the husband and wife).  The article was actually saying it was the change in view (that this is wrong) over the last century that is partially what is leading to this problem.  When you narrow your options by deeming people outside of a certain age range culturally acceptable, it makes it harder to find the right person and therefore more likely that you will remain unmarried.  It actually makes sense when you think about it.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bullshit. The success rate for childbirth starts dropping considerably at age 35. I'm not an expert on the topic but I'd say average women becomes infertile at 45 or something. Infertility ≠ failure rate.

infertilitygraph.gif

Yea you're probably right.  That's the number I had to learn for class though but it always seemed a little small to me.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, INCREASING the population is wrong, from a simple long-term point of view.  Our current infrastructure (including natural resources such as water) are currently strained to the breaking point by our unnecessarily large populations, especially in cities.  Japan suffered from that problem early, and it was one of the factors that has effected that 'I don't really want to have kids' mentality amongst the youth over there.  China is having the same problem, especially in its northern provinces.  Europe suffers from it as well (it's actually much worse there than it is here), and so does Australia (because so little of their land is arable in the first place).

 

To be blunt, we need some kind of bio-engineered plague or lots of nukes to rapidly reduce our population to something manageable so that the illumi- I mean, conscientious human beings can run the world properly.

 

 

(Edit:  The last part was a joke, but I really am serious about population being a problem.  Part of it is that Christianity and Islam, two of the largest faiths, promote population expansion, but it is also because kids just don't die in infancy like they used to... so too many people survive to adulthood)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, INCREASING the population is wrong, from a simple long-term point of view.  Our current infrastructure (including natural resources such as water) are currently strained to the breaking point by our unnecessarily large populations, especially in cities.  Japan suffered from that problem early, and it was one of the factors that has effected that 'I don't really want to have kids' mentality amongst the youth over there.  China is having the same problem, especially in its northern provinces.  Europe suffers from it as well (it's actually much worse there than it is here), and so does Australia (because so little of their land is arable in the first place).

 

To be blunt, we need some kind of bio-engineered plague or lots of nukes to rapidly reduce our population to something manageable so that the illumi- I mean, conscientious human beings can run the world properly.

 

 

(Edit:  The last part was a joke, but I really am serious about population being a problem.  Part of it is that Christianity and Islam, two of the largest faiths, promote population expansion, but it is also because kids just don't die in infancy like they used to... so too many people survive to adulthood)

Yea, that's a part of it as well.   That's why demographers, like I said, have come up with replacement level fertility.  I still think that might help Japan out some (but you're right int he big picture it's a short-term fix) but as for China and India that's not enough.  Then we get into the whole problem of sex, because some cultures only want male children (more profitable).  Again, complex issue with no real solution.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Typical gaijin gamer being completely oblivious about Japan's current state of affairs. Little does he know that visual novels and dating sims are a complete niche, with not even the slightest chance to have any actual impact on japanese population.

On the other hand, this is a great time for us to actually move to Japan, if someone's interested. A while ago I read an interesting article that the assertive part of female population is actually annoyed at their men and desperate enough they wouldn't mind to be in a difficult relationship with a foreigner, haha. Take your chance, guys!

On a more serious note, declining birthrate isn't the sole issue connected with people having different views and thus refusing to start a family and have children of their own. More people, including the goverment are actually worried that soon there won't be enough people within their productive period to actually support the remaining, non-working and aging part of their society. Those numbers are mind-boogling. If not entirely now, it will become a huge issue in the near future to the point, the japanese goverment is seriously considering to encourage young foreigners with possibilities (as in, knowledge of japanese and education appropriate to their labor market) to actually move to Japan. If anyone ever thought about "living their dream", right now's the best time to start learning japanese and seriously consider all the eventual possibilities; you never know what might happen next.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't find it now but I should have clarified more.  It used to be acceptable in place like Europe, but know it's trailing off.  I do know quite a few European families who still do this though (one has a 20 year age gap between the husband and wife).  The article was actually saying it was the change in view (that this is wrong) over the last century that is partially what is leading to this problem.  When you narrow your options by deeming people outside of a certain age range culturally acceptable, it makes it harder to find the right person and therefore more likely that you will remain unmarried.  It actually makes sense when you think about it.  

Man, westerners are messed up. Well, at least here in the middle east we don't have such problems. My dad has 5 kids and our family's considered small. And hopefully I'll get married someday and have 4 wives,  26 guys and 24 girls!just kidding

 

 

(Edit:  The last part was a joke, but I really am serious about population being a problem.  Part of it is that Christianity and Islam, two of the largest faiths, promote population expansion, but it is also because kids just don't die in infancy like they used to... so too many people survive to adulthood)

Hmmm... But you know, i think with the  more technological advancement, we might have the capability to let twice the population of today  live with all the resources they need. I hope that can happen, or else me no 4 waifus :wub:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had heard that even in Japan gamers were not considered "normal" people. In this case, I cannot believe myself that VN's are so effective that they are a threat to Japan's future. 

 

Sounds like those "Video games cause violence!" nonsense to me: you can see the reasoning but thinking about it reveals that it is a weak point. No need to pay it much mind, I'd say.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, westerners are messed up. Well, at least here in the middle east we don't have such problems. My dad has 5 kids and our family's considered small. And hopefully I'll get married someday and have 4 wives,  26 guys and 24 girls!just kidding

 

 

Hmmm... But you know, i think with the  more technological advancement, we might have the capability to let twice the population of today  live with all the resources they need. I hope that can happen, or else me no 4 waifus :wub:

Research into the way our food crops are responding to changing climate conditions has caused scientists to conclude that staple crops will be less nutritious, the warmer our climate gets.  That means every ear of corn, loaf of bread, and sack of rice will feed fewer people.  If anything, it is going to be all science can do to keep food production matching the current population, without some kind of dramatic advances.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Many of your guys have brought it up already--yes, VNs are surely too niche even in Japan to have a significant impact. Despite all the disagreements, his video did now get some new views from our end :P.

 

When I bring up VNs, I've had people tell me in person, "Oh, so you play/make those kinds of games :o." Never meant in a hurtful way but the assumption comes pouring out. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...