babiker Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Yea, so this guy here talks about how VN's (or dating sims) are ruining japans future. Whats really ironing though, is that he admits to enjoying them himself, and yet still condemns them. But whats even more jarring is that... I find it hard to disagree with anything he says. is this really what VN's are doing? If so, i think we should rethink spreading them... just kidding... Tenkuru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 There is no 'evil', there is only the Force. I'm having trouble hearing Youtube videos right now, something to do with my settings, but is that dude trying to blame the decline in birth rates and the increase in people not interested in marriage on VNs, anime and manga? If he is, he's seriously misguided (Rooke is being diplomatic here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I'm the kind of person that do what I want and dont give a damn about what other people say, so even if VN are really evil ( NOPE ), I still dont care~ Haters gonna hate, they said~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Unseen Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I left a comment on the video before I realized that the video was nearly 2 years old... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 I left a comment on the video before I realized that the video was nearly 2 years old... yep, super old for a youtube video. but the problems it states are only increasing over the years, and since hes talking about VN's, i thought the community needed a heads up. a lot, and i mean a lot of people agree with this guy. Hell, even i thought the same thing before playing my first VN... just found out your real name btw MUHAHAHAHAHA! is it possibly cristopher bandy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 a lot, and i mean a lot of people agree with this guy. *Snort*. Please don't fling that comment around as if it means something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronopolis Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 There are a lot of other much more prominent social factors. Yes he makes a connection which seems logical at first, but if you think about still how small the VN demographic is compared to the mainstream games in Japan, and how that is only a part of the whole relevant population, he's missing perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I read one of those ‘vaunted’ comments on that Youtube site, by the way. One of those people who agreed with the video in question. This person asked “Why don’t women become less picky?” Yes, that is a very good question. Why, in a country where women rarely see their husbands because they’re away all day working obscene hours as a salaryman, leaving them lonely, and abandoned yet expected to take care of their husband and children by themselves, with no further hope of a serious career path in front of them leaving them financially dependant on their significant other are WOMEN SO GOD-DAMN PICKY? That is a very good question, you utter brain-box! As for the points raised in the video (I'm guessing a little here, no audio remember. But I think I see what this guy is saying.) Women are more ambitious than every before, and recognise that becoming married in Japan means being expected to give up their career. Men are becoming tired of the salarymen life, working godawful hours and never being able to go home, so they're opting out of the system. Women have high standards, requiring a certain income and other things, fewer eligible men means fewer marriages. And that's before we even get to the stuff that's effecting everywhere, like we have a consumer attitude now, we no longer need to have kids for security. Getting married and having kids means less money and time to spend on yourself. All of these things are contributing to the falling marriage rate. These are far more of an influence than VNs, which started as a niche genre and has been in decline for about a decade now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Unseen Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 just found out your real name btw MUHAHAHAHAHA! is it possibly cristopher bandy? *pulls phone out his pocket* "He knows." Funyarinpa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 but if you think about still how small the VN demographic is compared to the mainstream games in Japan, IThese are far more of an influence than VNs, which started as a niche genre and has been in decline for about a decade now. Guys, i think you have a big mistake here. while yes, VN's are a niche genre outside of Japan, but they are by far one of the most mainstream game genres in Japan. I mean 70% of the games mad in japan in the year 2006 were VNS's, and i do think they have been increasing ever since. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_novel And no, i dont think there the main reason of low birthrates in Japan, but they definitely play an important role. And i do think you should watch the hole video before you make your judgement Rooke. and you, scars unseen. or should i say chris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Guys, i think you have a big mistake here. while yes, VN's are a niche genre outside of Japan, but they are by far one of the most mainstream game genres in Japan. I mean 60% of the games mad in japan in the year 2009 were VNS's, and i do think they have been increasing ever since. How much do you know about the VN industry in Japan? VNs are only popular among young males, maybe, but that is all. Popular VNs a decade ago used to top 100,000 copies sold, which is a paltry number. These days, you've done amazing if you sell 30,000 copies, which is ludicrously tiny. Developers are struggling to keep their doors open, people inside the industry are paid abysmally, are you sure you know very much about the industry in Japan? And VNs play an insignificant role. A survey in a Japanese magazine recently said 70% of female widows were HAPPY their partner died. HAPPY. Marriage felt like a prison to them. Marriage counsellors regularly report women unhappy with their partner being the strong Japanese type, devoting all their time to business and spending no time on them. They do not come out and say, 'the dude was having an affair with his Waifu on ze internet.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 How much do you know about the VN industry in Japan? VNs are only popular among young males, maybe, but that is all. Popular VNs a decade ago used to top 100,000 copies sold, which is a paltry number. These days, you've done amazing if you sell 30,000 copies, which is ludicrously tiny. Developers are struggling to keep their doors open, people inside the industry are paid abysmally, are you sure you know very much about the industry in Japan? well, i didn't mean they were billionaires or something, but there a lot more popular there than most games. and if the industry is doing that bad... i hope they can get up on there feet again And VNs play an insignificant role. A survey in a Japanese magazine recently said 70% of female widows were HAPPY their partner died. HAPPY. Marriage felt like a prison to them. Marriage counsellors regularly report women unhappy with their partner being the strong Japanese type, devoting all their time to business and spending no time on them. 0_0. Ouch. They do not come out and say, 'the dude was having an affair with his Waifu on ze internet.' Lol. mabey... or at least, i hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I am very annoyed at this dude. The situation in Japan is very serious, and stems from a number of complex cultural issues and lifestyle … stuff. I’m very annoyed that this guy is trivialising the problem. Many MANY serious academics have written many papers on the issue. I don’t believe the ‘influence of VNs and dating sims’ was high up on the list of causes. *Takes deep breaths…* *And more deep breaths....* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashadow700 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 This is something I've been thinking a lot about back and forth and here the short version of my theory; I think the popularity and growth of dating sims and synthetic relationships is an effect of a much deeper issue in modern society, rather then the root of the problem itself. I don't know that much about japanese culture, but I do know that men are expected to work extremely hard to support their families, making a lot of them feel that marrying simply is not worth it. Like the creator of the video also brought up, Japanese women also seem to have some form of image of having unreasonable expectations of their partners, which likely leads to a lot of young people feeling that they don't have much of a chance in the area. But I believe one of the more important factors could be that many of us just feel sort of... lost in modern society. In a situation where you have to spend 50 hours per week working or studying, constantly have the societal pressure of achieve amazing results in school so that you can get the best work, you don't have a lot of friends, you have little contact with your family because they will too far away, your girlfriend maybe recently left you – in a situation like that, a lot of people will crave for something – anything, that can fill the void of sheer loneliness in their life, just to not completely break down from depression. Even it that ”anything” happens to be a set of 1:ns and 0:es that happen to add up to form a digital girl. I don't know about everyone else, but I see quite a few parallels to the growing issue of MMO:s addiction, as I believe the root cause of people getting stuck in video games or start dating virtual girlfriends are largely the same. It's this overall feeling of meaninglessness and loneliness caused from that living in a society of 7 billion people in which you know your own life has effectively no true purpose. Extra credits made an excellent video on this subject a while back; I suggest having a look at it: Okay, okay, that might all have been a bit pretentious and all over the place, but this is an incredibly complex issue and I can hardly address it properly in a single forum post written in less then 30 minutes. -_- babiker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think the popularity and growth of dating sims and synthetic relationships is an effect of a much deeper issue in modern society, rather then the root of the problem itself. That sounds much better. The most common cause of incorrect solutions to social problems is the misdiagnosis of social problems themselves. This obviously lead to solutions which are incorrect because they address the wrong issue. What is the problem, and what are the symptoms of the problem. It requires much thought and much care *glares at Youtube author* EDIT: @Babiker: You misquoted Wiki btw. VNs made up 70% of the PC GAMING MARKET in Japan in 2006, which doesn't say much because the PC market in Japan is quite small. Ashadow700 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 PC gaming is mostly MMO's and social games over there, other than VNs. Here, most of the high-quality games end up on PC and PC-exclusive games far outnumber those on consoles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMN Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 *Takes deep breaths…* *And more deep breaths....* 先輩!落ち着いてください！ so basically he's saying the cause of lack of marriage in japan are games? i don't think VN's can affect the whole country in terms of the population i mean after all from what i've seen women are demanding stuff the japanese males are just incapable of that's why there's no marriages they just want too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Umm... if anything, it is the fact that women are expected to end their careers if they marry over there. It is pretty much a universal belief amongst anyone born prior to 1990 who works at a 'normal' job, so it is going to be at least another decade before society manages to dispose of that idea. Darklord Rooke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Ooops Brain fell on the floor. Seriously, this guy has no idea what he's talking about. Oh and yeah, A minority of people wanting to date computers and spend time with virtual girls is TOTALLY going to affect birth rate in Japan. This guy has the answer. He's da man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronopolis Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Umm... if anything, it is the fact that women are expected to end their careers if they marry over there. It is pretty much a universal belief amongst anyone born prior to 1990 who works at a 'normal' job, so it is going to be at least another decade before society manages to dispose of that idea. Oh, right. That. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolverk Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Visual novels, games, Books, TV series etc. Aren't any more damaging than the other imo. It all depends on how they are used. How addictive they can be and how much you would like to reject the world depends on the person. If someone play shooter games all day, or read vn's all day. There is not really a major difference if it's just a means to reject the world. Also lol, "vn's are a major factor to the social issues in japan" *facepalm* Aside from that, if you find it enjoyble to dive into another world is that wrong? No. It's an exteremly common thing. The difference is between the extreme of rejecting the world you are living in. Your entertainment becomes your reason for living, not a means of living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryofrzd Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Everything new has been the "thing that destroys the next generations", from the radio to the telephone, to the TV and to the computer. I won't deny they have serious demographic and economic problems in Japan but like stated before, the young generation becomes the scapegoat. Which hinders an deeper and more sound analysis of the problem and is probably even counterproductive. The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. - Attributed to Socrates by Plato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 While I am against H-scenes and sex in VNs/Anime/manga I totally support having virtual girlfriend over real ones and even if that ware the cause of low birth marriage (Witch is not) in my case I think that that is a step up as I believe that in future people will stop breeding and reproduce with help of technology such as cloning. Japan is more advance then other cultures so they are just heading that way sooner. But anyway I never really cared what people are talking to begin with I do what I want and majority of people out there are idiots anyway. Nagisa_Fawkes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryofrzd Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 People should indeed have the choice what to do with their lives; people must stop expecting people to become parents. I think virtual and non-virtual partners aren't excluding each other, perhaps because I think of the first as some kind of idolisation and the second as a companionship. Idolisations have existed long before these decades. I don't think cloning will "solve the problem" since it doesn't remove the 99% of the responsibilities of parents, that is bringing the new generation up. I guess people who doesn't choose the family path does it because of the lack of interest to dedicate roughly twenty years altruistically to the next generation. I might be pessimistic but I don't think cloning in the nearest 50 years will be able to transfer the memory and experiences. First it will be able to just create a genetical clone, that is the replica will be like a monozygotic sibling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 While I am against H-scenes and sex in VNs/Anime/manga I totally support having virtual girlfriend over real ones and even if that ware the cause of low birth marriage (Witch is not) in my case I think that that is a step up as I believe that in future people will stop breeding and reproduce with help of technology such as cloning. wow, people now think that populating the earth is wrong? and cloning? Even if it was possible, would you truly accept something like that? If you were born by being cloned, how would you feel?... though I'm getting off topic. To me, when it comes to having a virtual girlfriend, it depends on what you believe the purpose of love is. If you believed its to have babies and populate the earth (yes, some people really believe that), then such a concept would tantamount to blasphemy. But, if you just love for the sake of it, I suppose theirs anything wrong with having a virtual girlfriend (or waifu). But i still cant help but feel such a future would be sad... and congrats on the 1000 posts Okami!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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