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Is it Ok to take without permission?


Dark Ariel7

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I am talking about fan translations. I mean the other day I was at a Ln fan translation site (that shall not be named because sometimes people can be really sore over nothing.) and I saw that one of the FAQ for the site was that you cannot take the translation and translate it without giving credit to the group. This is not the only place where I have seen similar claims either. Well, it got me thinking. Why do I need their permission to use the work they themselves made without permission from its author. I mean it just seems really hypocritical. 

What do you guys think is it Ok to take a fan translation without permission?

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Personally I wouldn't, because if you're re-releasing it without any changes, then you're just claiming credit for a work you didn't do, which I would look down upon

 

That said there's nothing LEGALLY they can do to you anyways (because it's not like what they are doing is legal in the first place). (e.g. in anime fansubbing nobody gives a shit anymore. and people just rip scripts off each other but at least they encode better..........sometimes... but then they also credit it unless it's CR ... usually iirc)

 

 

Bottom line is if you're stealing it to do your own release....  like why, if you're not moral at all about taking other people's work and not giving credit... then not really much they can DO to you. but you have to keep in mind the response might or might not be warranted (it's a byproduct of your action. e.g. taking someone else's work and passing it on your own)

 

Just a note too, if you actually translated something, it'll be pretty different than someone else's job (so if you don't do very many edits, it can be blindingly obvious)

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If your wording of that FAQ is correct, all they ask of you is to give credit. They're not saying you should ask for permission beforehand. We're talking about two different things here.

 

As for giving credit, you don't *have* to, but not doing it is sort of a dick move.

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Well I did not mean taking credit for something you did not write. I meant for example taking a translation from a group that is in english and then translating that into spanish. Groups feel like you should give them credit for using their translation as a base.

I know they can't really DO anything. I just wanted to know how people felt about it.

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If your wording of that FAQ is correct, all they ask of you is to give credit. They're not saying you should ask for permission beforehand. We're talking about two different things here.

 

As for giving credit, you don't *have* to, but not doing it is sort of a dick move.

My problem with this though is how is it a dick move? I mean you are not giving out their translation. You are making your own translation based off of theirs. 

I went back to check they actually ask that you notify them and give them credit.

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Well I did not mean taking credit for something you did not write. I meant for example taking a translation from a group that is in english and then translating that into spanish. Groups feel like you should give them credit for using their translation as a base.

I know they can't really DO anything. I just wanted to know how people felt about it.

well in either case let's just be nice and give credit where credit is due imo

ask for permission if you want/etc. but honestly it's not that hard to give credit to anyone.

just say original translation by _______

dunno what's hard about that.

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They can't tell me not to do it. It's the internet.

However is it kind of an ass move not crediting the team? I'd say it is.

But they have no right to tell you not to steal it, in theory. It's just a matter of wether or not you respect the team.

This is just related to rehosting by the way.

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My problem with this though is how is it a dick move? I mean you are not giving out their translation. You are making your own translation based off of theirs. 

I went back to check they actually ask that you notify them and give them credit.

 

If it was me I'd do it out of respect for the work that was put into the script you're using as a basis for your own. Giving credit takes less than a minute, so refusing to do it is a bit rude IMO.

 

Btw I'm talking about just giving credit, as in mentioning or linking to the source material. Them forcing you to ask for permission beforehand is... yeah, maybe going a bit too far.

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They can't tell me not to do it. It's the internet.

However is it kind of an ass move not crediting the team? I'd say it is.

But they have no right to tell you not to steal it, in theory.

 

that said the internet also has the right to call you out on it if you do so (so it goes both ways/ you can't really complain about it if people point it out*)

 

*: ok... again you can technically complain about it but you'll probably look really silly

 

 

then again they are also in the gray/grey side of the law too by doing so (unless they got permission from the original owner/publisher) so yes, they can't really do much either.

 

 

If it was me I'd do it out of respect for the work that was put into the script you're using as a basis for your own. Giving credit takes less than a minute, so refusing to do it is a bit rude IMO.

it's a LN translation...

just put like one line on the top that says "Originally Translated By: WHATEVERTHEIRTEAMIS"  

then again if you were to do it for anime or a game that'll be different/possibly it could be somewhat harder to implement...

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If you want to retranslate you have no responsibility of putting up the name of the team you're retranslating from.

However not doing so will only make you seem pretentious because you're showing off a translation with no credit, implying you translated the original work which you didn't do so you're almost deceiving those who use your translation which to me is really disrespectful.

Conclusion: retranslating without credit makes you an ass, you have no obligation of doing it though. It's the internet after all.

that said the internet also has the right to call you out on it if you do so (so it goes both ways/ you can't really complain about it if people point it out*)

*: ok... again you can technically complain about it but you'll probably look really silly

then again they are also in the gray/grey side of the law too by doing so (unless they got permission from the original owner/publisher) so yes, they can't really do much either

Of course it goes without saying it works both ways. The original team has every right to complain, but they don't have the right to take legal action either. And that's kind of what i meant by "it's the internet"
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Yeah permission for use and attribution should be considered separately (and they usually are in licenses etc)

 

Permission is one thing.  The fan translator used the original without permission, so it makes sense you shouldn't need permission to use theirs for a derivative work I think.

 

But attribution is different.  Fan translators normally make it clear that it's their translation of some given original work and who it came from originally, don't they?

If a fan translator's work is passed off as someone else's, there is one thing they can do for sure.  Don't put up with it.  Stop being a fan translator.

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First of all, you'll generally get by unpunished with this. Different languages have different ways to express concepts, so while you're translating off someone else's tl, it often won't end up looking all that much like theirs. Most people won't notice anything if you say you tld it from the original work (since most people don't even bother reading two tls of the same thing in the first place). 

 

I actually don't think it'll be a dick move to the original tl team because they'll most likey not notice anything and it won't be screwing up their work or their effort. No one will get mad and it won't affect them at all, so I can't see the wrong there. What the eye doesn't see (and doesn't kick you in the back without you noticing) the heart doesn't grieve over, after all.

 

It may be kind of a dick move to the people reading it and the original author, since the meaning will most likely be quite different from the original work. It's like that game where you whisper a phrase into someone's ear and they pass it to another person, when the phrase reaches you back, it's generally quite different. So you'll be giving them a work with a considerable level of difference to the original one and claiming said difference is much smaller.

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First of all, you'll generally get by unpunished with this. Different languages have different ways to express concepts, so while you're translating off someone else's tl, it often won't end up looking all that much like theirs. Most people won't notice anything if you say you tld it from the original work (since most people don't even bother reading two tls of the same thing in the first place). 

 

I actually don't think it'll be a dick move to the original tl team because they'll most likey not notice anything and it won't be screwing up their work or their effort. No one will get mad and it won't affect them at all, so I can't see the wrong there. What the eye doesn't see (and doesn't kick you in the back without you noticing) the heart doesn't grieve over, after all.

 

It may be kind of a dick move to the people reading it and the original author, since the meaning will most likely be quite different from the original work. It's like that game where you whisper a phrase into someone's ear and they pass it to another person, when the phrase reaches you back, it's generally quite different. So you'll be giving them a work with a considerable level of difference to the original one and claiming said difference is much smaller.

This is pretty much what I thought about it too. I mean whether you want to give credit or not is up to you.

What irks me though is just that they would even ask to be given credit and notification. It just comes off to me as hypocritical.  I mean it's like pretending that there are certain rules that need to be followed to use the content. It does not matter if there are consequences or not they are still asking you to do it.

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This is pretty much what I thought about it too. I mean whether you want to give credit or not is up to you.

What irks me though is just that they would even ask to be given credit and notification. It just comes off to me as hypocritical.  I mean it's like pretending that there are certain rules that need to be followed to use the content. It does not matter if there are consequences or not they are still asking you to do it.

Well, asking is more than fine. I think it's only reasonable- I'd certainly ask for credit if someone were to use a tl I made as a base.

I mean, it'd certainly better for me if someone did credit it. That credit would be translated into more people appreciating my efforts and more people reading what I tld. Plus, the person is taking something I did, so it shouldn't be much of a big deal to add one line and a link to it.

 

I (as always) think both sides are ok. People hurry to much to say doing something is right or wrong. I'm yet to find one situation (in my life and even in history) where I thought something is unforgivable or definitely wrong, but this is just thread derailing by now, so I'll stop~

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Yeah you are right. To be hones it was just a small thing that irked and I had some free time to kill so I thought I'd post here to see what you guys thought. I would give credit. It bother me slightly that they ask. It is certainly nothing worth starting a fight over.

 

And to finish the thread derailing. Kaguya, your signature just made me finally take the leap to download Fate Stay Night I will probably start reading today. Damn you ugly art! It looks like it would be so good without that.Or at least without the text box everywhere.

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