babiker Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 So, yeah. since coming into the VN world, one of the things that bothered me the most were the seemingly unseen divine rule's most of them have. who hasnt asked: why do all VN's have to take place in high school? why do all VN's have to be about a male/female protagonist trying to find the opposite sex? yes, i know there are exceptions, such as the Muscle Sensation route in little busters. but thats the only exception i personnaly know of. Refrain is one of the best routes in VN history, and while admitedly i have yet to play it, to the best of my knowledge, it's not very romance focused. The same go's for rewrite and g senjou no maou; both great game's and one of the best, and both not very romance focused. there are more, of course: naricussa, the fate franchise... etc i'm not trying to say romance is necesserily a bad thing. but when it's the only thing moving the plot in a VN, or for the matter any novel or story: it just gets boaring. and repetitive. i remmember reading my first route in clannad; it was thrilling. the second; not so bad. the third; bearable. and the fourth: ... well, you can see were i'm going. So do you think it's possable to create a VN with absoluteley no romance? And wich is better: VN's staying the same highschool/romance story's they are, or becoming more universal; with more variety? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vokoca Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 why do all VN's have to take place in high school? This is hardly a rule. In fact, a lot of the better VNs are quite removed from this setting. As for romance, it's entirely possible to have VNs like that as well. While the traditional route = heroine format is very common, there are VNs with no routes at all (Higurashi, Umineko...) or VNs where routes don't necessarily equal romance with a heroine (999, VLR, Saya no Uta...). And that's just what came to mind first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 If you think every vn is focused on highschool romance you are living under a rock. Key stuff always revolves around it so no chance there. But there's many other vns that don't revolve around romance. 07th Expansion games are a great example. None of them have any kind of romantic main plot, maybe some hints, but that's as far as they go. When you're searching for the most mainstream titles like any Key work or G-senjou no Maou these always tend to be romance focused because the masses like it. A lot of people like conquering 2D girls, it's as simple as that. But there's many others that don't have romance, they're just not held in high regard by some and thus aren't as popular but they still remain gems waiting for you to find them. Stuff like the Zero Escape series or the Corpse Party series come to mind right away as some of the more popular ones. And even when there's romance it is not always centered around highschool students. One of the most popular examples would be Saya no Uta which is a very good vn I might add and it is not even close to being your typical highschool romance. And it's not always a boy trying to find a girl. There's plenty of yuri and yaoi to go around. Not to mention the Otome genre with female protagonists. So to answer your questions in a simple manner. why do all VN's have to take place in high school? why do all VN's have to be about a male/female protagonist trying to find the opposite sex? They don't. They aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Meogii Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Most people who read vn's are in school so maybe it makes it easier for them to relate to it. And as for the male/female issue I think that's entirely up to the artist. I've seen a couple of yuri and yaoi vns so I don't think that it's a definite rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 So, yeah. since coming into the VN world, one of the things that bothered me the most were the seemingly unseen divine rule's most of them have. who hasnt asked: why do all VN's have to take place in high school? why do all VN's have to be about a male/female protagonist trying to find the opposite sex? yes, i know there are exceptions, such as the Muscle Sensation route in little busters. but thats the only exception i personnaly know of. Refrain is one of the best routes in VN history, and while admitedly i have yet to play it, to the best of my knowledge, it's not very romance focused. The same go's for rewrite and g senjou no maou; both great game's and one of the best, and both not very romance focused. there are more, of course: naricussa, the fate franchise... etc i'm not trying to say romance is necesserily a bad thing. but when it's the only thing moving the plot in a VN, or for the matter any novel or story: it just gets boaring. and repetitive. i remmember reading my first route in clannad; it was thrilling. the second; not so bad. the third; bearable. and the fourth: ... well, you can see were i'm going. So do you think it's possable to create a VN with absoluteley no romance? And wich is better: VN's staying the same highschool/romance story's they are, or becoming more universal; with more variety? As nii-chan said, they aren't. I'll give you some examples of tld VNs like that- Steins; Gate Forest Swan Song Sekien no Inganock Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ever17 Remember11 Saya no Uta Higanbana no Saku Yoru Ni (complete school setting, but has absolutely nothing to do with romance) Rose Guns Days Dysfunctional Systems World End Economica Shikkoku no Sharnoth There are many more, by the way. This is just an intro to these games. I picked the ones I think are the best amongst the tld games while trying to keep genre variety. I also excluded some amazing games from this list (like Ayakashibito) because they present both romance and school settings, even though neither is the focus of the story. Some of these have some romance, though. If you want to completely remove romance, there's less examples, but that's mostly because of the origin of VNs and the main target of them, I guess. It's possible to make VNs like that, though (like higanbana). I reeeeeeally dislike VNs in which the story is only about romance, though- not a fan of moeges. If you want some tips on VNs that aren't like that, you can ask me at any time~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvz Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 But there's many other vns that don't revolve around romance. 07th Expansion games are a great example. None of them have any kind of romantic main plot, maybe some hints, but that's as far as they go. I know it's not the main plot, but Umineko has romance, mostly during the second part of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Most of VNs have Romance because that is what people want, that's what people read, that's what people buy it is as simple as that. But there is a decent number of VNs that don't have any romance. I myself always go for Anime and VNs that have romance rather than the ones that don't because I love the romance genre, that doesn't mean I don't read/watch the ones that don't have romance or that I dislike them but I prefer it if it has a romance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 I know it's not the main plot, but Umineko has romance, mostly during the second part of it Sorry I didn't read Umineko, only Higurashi and Higanbana But you have to agree it's not the major point of most of their works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukiru Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Well, love tend to spice things up when it comes to the plot (not to mention it brings the ero part pretty naturally... most of the times... probably), I think that's all there is to it, even though there are also VN that use other tricks to spice their stuff. For example Unlimited Blade Works (F/SN) is pretty much Archer's route, but the thing with Tohsaka is still there to, hmm... I don't really know why, but it's there and it makes it better, kinda. There are also cases like Steins;Gate where even though there is actually romance in two or three routes, it isn't the main plot overall, and it's barely even mentioned in one or two of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katatsumuri Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 VNs are NOT limited to a highschool setting. It's just that those settings are very common, especially in moege. And Maybe many of them take place in high school because (this is just a theory of mine, birthed five minutes ago) it's easier to relate to for EVERYONE. A large majority (almost everyone) of the people who read VNs have gone to school at some point in their lives. So obviously most people will relate to a school-setting more than, say, working at a fast-food resturant. And for your second question: A lot of people like romance. In theory, EVERY creature on earth like romance (and by "romance", I am mostly referring to mating). And being in love releases endorfins, which is the body's very own homemade "feel-good" drug, which makes you subconsciously see romance as something positive. And when your product is about what many people like, you will reach a wider audience. Also with romance, it's easier to justify H-scenes. But these are just quickly made up theories of mine, and should be taken with a grain of salt. Also, since I am a huge fan of excessively romantic stuff (but curiously, only japanese romantic stories. it probably has something to do with the tropes used...) I would easily pass up on VNs not containing any romance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted May 26, 2014 Author Share Posted May 26, 2014 well, what can i say? it seem's i realy was living under a rock i'll try my best to jot down all these suggestions. and try them one by one. though i suppose most of what i said came from my dislike for romantic stuff (obviously)and was kind of overwhelmed by all ones i did read. VN's have a great, if not the greatest in my oppinion, ability to tell a story. and i was kind of fealing it was a shame there wasnt enough one's with different story's, though now i understand this was due to my lack of knowledge. but, nontheless, i must thank you guy's for quick, accurate and clear responses. this is my first post and i can already feel this is comunity i will be proud to be a part off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 For romance vs non-romance, it's just a matter of taste. Romance is good, VNs without romance are also good. They're entirely different and I don't really prefer one over the other. Most people who read vn's are in school so maybe it makes it easier for them to relate to it. And as for the male/female issue I think that's entirely up to the artist. I've seen a couple of yuri and yaoi vns so I don't think that it's a definite rule I'd say that this probably isn't actually the case. Most eroge readers are probably adults. It may seem strange, but in Japan adults are the primary audience for most works of fiction taking place in high school, while japanese high schoolers tend to prefer fantasy/sci-fi/non-highschool settings. Never underestimate the power of nostalgia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 For romance vs non-romance, it's just a matter of taste. Romance is good, VNs without romance are also good. They're entirely different and I don't really prefer one over the other. I'd say that this probably isn't actually the case. Most eroge readers are probably adults. It may seem strange, but in Japan adults are the primary audience for most works of fiction taking place in high school, while japanese high schoolers tend to prefer fantasy/sci-fi/non-highschool settings. Never underestimate the power of nostalgia. It's not strange. They ARE intended for adults or at least a more mature audience Highschoolers aren't looking for fluffy romance stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyanko Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 A lot of media in general has romance I guess.. and it really depends on your taste. A lot of people love to read moege, romance focused VNs and school settings. I personally prefer VNs without the school setting and too much romance though, and believe me; there are enough VNs to pick from! Even if you can't read Japanese, there are enough TLd ones. Like already mentioned, games from 07th Expansion are a great example if you're looking for almost 0% romance. More examples of VNs without too much romance are I/O, the zero escape series and the infinity series. I know it's not the main plot, but Umineko has romance, mostly during the second part of it Without love, it cannot be seen Silvz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawm Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Polar opposite for me. Romance doesn't interest me in the slightest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 In most serious action VNs, the romance is either weak, twisted in some weird way, or something that isn't really romance. It is simply a matter of emphasis. Moege and their spin-offs (nakige like Clannad and other Key games and charage like Cocoro@Function) tend to be at least 70% romance and friendship/character dynamics, the rest of the game story. The fact is, when you get two humans together that might possibly be attracted to one another in an extreme situation, the likelihood that something will happen is relatively high. Case in point... Sakurai Kei in Dies Irae despises the protagonist, Fujii Ren, almost from the beginning, but in her path... However, would that seriously be considered romance? That is a matter for debate. Romance, being directly linked to one of humanity's three great needs (sustenance, sleep, sex), the one that is most intimately linked with the ambitions of the average person beyond immediate needs, is difficult to get around, and most people are turned off by a story without at least a little backhanded chemistry. Now, to answer the two questions at the top... About 70% of all VNs are based in a high school for the simple reason that most of the audience is relatively young (late adolescence to mid thirties) in Japan. The near-middle-age people have a nostalgia for the non-existent glory days that might have been in high school and high schoolers want a more glorious (and sexually/romantically active) life than they have. Not only that, there is a built-in assumption to Japanese society that everyone desires their 'normality', and that is heavily reflected in anime and VNs in general. As for why the young people in those VNs are so passionately obsessed with pursuing the opposite/same sex... just what do you expect? The average teenagers' consciousnesses are made up of one third sex, one third a random mix of emotionally-charged juices, and one-third hunger. If you have a young protagonist, you expect them to act a little bit that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I think romance can help with a vn. It's not necessary for a good one but it can help in some cases. It adds slightly more depth to some characters and the story. Sometimes it just makes you smile (Lucia's date scene in rewrite did that to me). I guess it's a matter of taste but as a seemingly hopeless romantic, I think it's pretty important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 Polar opposite for me. Romance doesn't interest me in the slightest. Thank god, I'm not the only one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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