Fuwa's state, a subective opinion.

[Guest]

So I've been a member of the forum for almost 5 months now.

I think I can safely say that I've been pretty active during these five months even though it isn't much time.

That's why I would like to share my point on view of how I see Fuwa right now compared to when I joined, and how I think it could be changed.

 

I've been wanting to write this post since I read Ren's. It collided with one of my principles in life which is "change is good".

His post made me realize that many people see fuwa solely as a place to be welcomed to.

I did join to find people to talk about Visual Novel's with don't take me wrong.

However the sentence that brought me here was :

 

Making Visual Novels Popular in the West.

 

And what that implies is making the effort of trying to bring people in rather than just creating a welcoming place.

And it is welcoming to those who actually want to find that nest indeed.

However, that is not going to help the forum grow, that is not going to improve the forum or the content.

Yes ! Keep it fun and warm, but don't make it silly.

 

I'm going to start on a positive note and aplaud the change which was recently made : 

The fact that Games&Chatter threads do not appear neither in "new content" nor in the "recent topics" side bar.

On the other hand I do not understand why spam threads such as the appreciations threads or the Majikoi IRC are allowed even in that subforum.

I don't think Games&Chatter should be considered the dumpyard of fuwanovel and that everything should be allowed in it. 

It is a place where people can relax and have fun but not a place to troll, spam or to post threads related to private jokes or conversations.

 

This leads to my next topic: Regulations.

I know and I've read Aaeru's point of view on the subject.

However she was too idealist. No ! People are not able to behave themselves and lengthy flood appears in to many threads.

There are tons or other place where it's possible to have fun so hold your forks and spears before calling out on me trying suffocate people enjoying their time on the forum.

 

Which leads to my first conclusion : Fun is good, but it doesn't help.

 

What helps improve the forum are the serious projects which are individually initiated or as a group . May they come to an end or not, they all push fuwa in the right direction.Projects create dynamism, they give to the forum a purpose other than just welcoming, they get people involved in something new, something they can relate to and say "I was part of that".

The project board has however been dead for the past 3 months even though many great projects which were previously discussed are still unapplied.

 

Yes I'm sorry to revive old chimeras. And I think it's a shame that some of these were dropped due to events and reasons which were kept totally silent because of some internal drama I don't even care or know about (as every other member).

These projects are :

• Member of the Month 
• Awards attribution
• Fuwa Chatbox 

Other projects which I - selfishly - think deserve more attention are :

• Review threads
• Lexicon

Project ideas I'd like to start working:

• Sprite/Data extraction thread.

 

I think Projects improving the content or the forum itself both have the same value : helping the forum be attractive. And even if they are not immediately appliable, I don't think it should be an agrument for dropping them.

 

Now. How to get people to come here ?

 

One thing that suprised me is that fuwa seems to have very few partnerships with other websites.

So knowing that fuwa's activty isn't really in legality, I may start talking about thing I'm unsure of so please forgive me here if what I suggest isn't possible.

But I don't think static spreading ever was a thing. I think we should start working on advertising just a little more or creating more partnerships with more active or popular websites.

To date fuwa has 4 partners (displayed on the front page).

 

A personnal thing now: The like system

I'm going to bother people with it again but I don't like that system (No pun intended).

What is the point of a second facebook system. It is not an indicator of the relevancy of a post (with a few exception). Most of the time it's just a lol button.

And I think we should figure out a system where people are actually rewarded for creating meaningful content. (Easy to say though)

 

Another thing : many official/pined posts on the forum need to be updated  (I'll make the list when I have time) and fuwanovel.net needs to get rid of Aaeru's twitter and the "Fan translation Wiki" button at the top right which is still pointless (That doesn't really matter though).

 

Sorry, the end was a little shortened an clumsily written but it has been 3h since I started writing the thing. I hope people won't think I'm criticizing just for the sake of it. I really (like really !) want to help fuwa improve as much as I possibly can. Still I'm ready for an eventual shitstorm.

I'm pretty sure I forgot some things I wanted to say. If it's the case i'll update this in another post.

I don't have a particular status on the forum so I think that this is the best and only way to say what I have to.

 

I love Visual Novels and I think it's a shame it is so widely unknown even in the "otaku community".

[Nosebleed]

Without a coder, any sort of new project on the site was pretty much put on hold. That's the state we're in right now regarding that. This is also no secret to anyone so don't think I'm putting Fuwa's dark secrets here. 

 

But is trying to make the forum grow exponentially really a good thing? You have to consider the side effects too. There will be more unwanted visitors (AKA trolls) with a larger user base. That's something you can't avoid. And while growing is indeed the direction we want to head torwards, it needs to be done with caution because we don't want the forums to turn toxic. While I do see the help having affiliations brings, it can also bring unwanted stuff so it needs to be planned. But it would definitely be something to bring up as a project.

 

I do like the projects you posted but ,like i said, without a coder, right now editing and adding stuff to the main site is complicated. At least that's as far as my knowledge of what's going on goes.

 

I want to see the awards and memeber of the month thing coming back too. That would fix the "like" system problem you mentioned since it will award members what they deserve even if they don't have rep.

 

However I don't think the like button is really an issue. You're saying people aren't rewarded for posting meaningful comments but for being funny but the reward is the respect from other members.

For example I want to call out Clephas who always has very insightful stuff to say (in my opinion) and he doesn't have that much rep when compared to others. Despite him not having the most likes, people still come to him for insight. That's something that's not set by a like button. The like button is there if you like the content. It never said it has to be relevant content so I don't think there's any issue with the like button and it can stay there. However i do support some other forms of recognition.

 

Regarding G&C i do see where you're coming from and there was already some heavy discussion about this some days ago and that's when G&C threads stopped appearing in the new content box. I believe this fixed the major issue which is "it's pushing down legit threads". Now I'm not saying it shouldn't be moderated and controlled, but G&C has always been somewhat of a lax forum and it's purpose was indeed to be kind of the dumpyard of threads that have no relevance and don't contribute to anything. I do think the appreciation thread and AMA thread thing should probably slow down (or end). That was a bad trend. But the purpose of any thread on G&C is on the same level which is near 0 so you can't say one thread is stupid and the other isn't simply because their level of purpose is pretty much the same.

If something is legit then it goes on GD for relevant discussion. That's how it's supposed to be.

[Kaguya]

Thanks for the feedback- your points are fine, but I'll have to disagree on almost everything

 

First off, about G&C- that is in fact the place where everything goes.  As long as you don't go against our guidelines, you may talk about whatever worthless thing you want there- for more "serious and meaningful" discussions, there is GD. The need for the G&C subforum has already been discussed at length, and I think it's a necessary evil. If you think a particular thread there is legit, just send a report and tell that it should be in another forum.

 

Personally, I think the core of fuwa is friendliness. We're actually growing a lot (there are like, 5 times more active users than there used to be when I joined) and our policies are being reviewed as we grow. Joining hands with other sites for more growth would be fine, but remember that fuwanovel tries to be different than the rest of the VN community, which is largely elitist and toxic. As we have conflicting viewpoints, getting a partnership with them is pretty hard.

 

You were just talking about how to get more people in, but you must realize people enjoy different things. See my "what makes a thread interesting to you" thread, for example- there were people there who said they liked nonsensical, topicless threads where they can play around. G&C is currently serving for that purpose very well, so I think it'd actually be bad to remove it.

 

Dropped Projects-

Tay has been very busy lately, so he stopped his own projects. The chatbox thing was actually never approved in the first place. I talked to Steve about the Member of the Month thingy, and there were some pretty good reasons for that (though I won't be able to reproduce his argument right now. Perhaps he can do so, if he sees this thread).

 

The main site isn't getting heavily updated because we lack a coder, but fear not, changes are coming, eventually. There was some talk about renovating the blog to put more interesting content there, for example.

 

Well, great post. I love seeing members dedicate so much of their time to improving our community- Even though we disagree, the feedback is much appreciated.

[Narcosis]

I've been around here ever since Fuwanovel was even born. I lurked for ages afterwards before I resurfaced again and trust me, barely anything important changed and I doubt it ever will. Aaeru wanted to create a more newbie friendly community, dedicated towards visual novels and she kind of succeeded. Unfortunately, the sole fact of what Fuwanovel became is it's own limiting factor and nothing won't get past that without people themselves influencing some major changes within the community.

 

Personally, I find threads like the whole G&C section, voting systems, post count and other fluff completely meaningless and distracting; I don't mind talking about certain medium related topics, like anime/manga/LN's or japanese popculture, but certain threads simply shouldn't be ever allowed to exist and get instantly purged when they surface. In fact, stuff like voting systems, membership levels etc. tend to be subjective and do everything except serving their actual purpose, not to mention they are often breeding grounds for various community-related issues and useless drama. Ask yourselves: do you like to share knowledge with others, because you feel it's the right thing to do - because you're doing it for yourselves, or because you're doing it only cause of other people around you? If it's the first one, there's no need to actually judge whether one person is more useful than another; it's actually unfair and insulting. Second choice always leads to massive circle-jerking and in the end, tends to hurt and leave deep scars within the community, changing it into something no sane person would ever want to be a part of.

 

It's also a question whether people gather here just to feel secure and chit chat about eroge, or because actually they want to contribute something, share interesting stuff and work on visual novels, in one way or another. To be honest, Fuwanovel is the first and barely covers the second. It used to be slightly different in the beggining, but I guess that's one thing even Aeru didn't predicted; as communities grow bigger, they also tend to go more lax and lose their original goals or purpose, unless there's some sort of a control, which firmly, yet gently steers it into bright, open waters.

 

I can't agree with statement that whole visual novel community remains toxic and elitist. Which part of it? How many of the sub-communities do you see? How many of them do you think we have? How many do you actually know? Visual novels were, are and will always remain a niche. You won't change that. It's not possible. Most propably, never. There are veterans around here as well and as much as I'd love to see vn's to flourish and become something more recognizable on the same level as - lets say - anime or manga are, I have to facepalm more often everytime when I see people trying so hard, you can sense the pain radiating from their very own pitiful existences. We arent doing anything for the internet, or people. We are always doing it for ourselves. World isn't interested in our vn's; they don't care about some shitty chinese porn games. At least, not yet so stop trying. Be more reasonable. Start working around the very own corners of the place you belong to. Perhaps, things will slowly change for the better as the time passes. They always do. It's not something you have any actual impact on, anyway.

 

To be honest, people don't even talk that much about vn's anymore, either. Most discussions that happen are on personal, very subjective level and relate to trivial things which have no actual value, or "substance"; you rarely see anything objective and meaningful (as in, contributing) nowadays.

 

To be honest, I'd rather wish to see Fuvanovel "less friendly", but more useful - both for people within and outside the community.

[solidbatman]

Great post. I think G&C is necessary, but certain threads *cough* majikoi thread *cough* should be completely eliminated. I don't see why Fuwa should be hosting what has turned into an IRC. It's very annoying to see on the main page 70% of the time the most recent post is in made in that thread.

We host it because it remains popular. I mean hell, the "Appreciation Appreciation Thread" was allowed, among other silly G&C threads. 

 

I would appreciate it if you did not needlessly call out threads/people in public and instead kept that private by messaging a mod with your complaints. 

[Yukiru]

Ruining other people's fun because you're not having fun is probably a bad thing to do, on the other hand, us having fun not letting the people not having fun have fun is pretty much no better.

 

G&C is harmful only if you think about it, I remember other members saying they rarely ever enter that subforum.

 

Deleting it would be an overkill the same goes the majikoi thread, while it's true that there aren't many projects lately, that's not because of G&C (it is if you look at it from a more twisted perspective, but still, it isn't), people have not stopped talking outside that subforum, people still give their opinions and people still care, I take it there are many of us just idling around, but that's doesn't hold true for everyone.

 

Keeping fuwanovel unchanged will not happen, it was one way when Aaeru was around, it changed when Tay and Nayleen were and it will keep changing for better of for worse, but I don't think a friendlier community is for the worse even if it means it isn't for the better as well.

 

That probably doesn't make much sense to some, but hey, an opinion is an opinion.

[Zakamutt]

I've always considered our welcoming atmosphere an important selling point, and something that increases the amount of people drawn in after being exposed to the site. The idea here is that people who are just starting to try VNs out will come here, and really get into it. This enthusiasm then leads to word-of-mouth spread of VNs increasing (if infrequently) and increasing the total dedicated playerbase, which increases the amount of people that will either pay for localized VNs (alright, small percentage here most likely) or contribute to fan translations.

 

Active recruitment is a good point. That said, grabbing users from other VN sites is meaningless - after all, they already know of VNs. Reaching out to anime communities and the like was actually something we once did on Facebook, but for reasons that's not happening right now. Main problem is getting someone trustworthy and motivated. That goes for any project, really.

 

Regulations: essentially tighter moderation? We do already have decent modding of threads going off topic, though I guess it could be stepped up. Explicit rules, other than the kind of small core we already have... tend to go badly, to be honest

 

G&C being dumpyard: every topic should still be monitored for uncivil behaviour, of course. However, having fun together creates bonds within a community. Admittedly, It's partly bad as new people may feel excluded. The other main good is that it keeps less serious topics away from the other discussion boards, and this is infinitely easier than strictly moderating threads and perhaps locking/deleting a lot of topics - which is going to piss people off, as well. On the whole I'd say it's good. I don't think you're providing enough reason as to why it is harmful.

 

Which leads to my first conclusion : Fun is good, but it doesn't help.

 

Isn't this line an oxymoron?

 

Partnerships: We once had someone doing this on Facebook. For reasons, they are no longer doing it. Again, we need trustworthy and motivated persons.
 

Review threads: how does this help bring more people to VNs? if anything, you want to encourage review blog posts on external blogs. Actually happening mostly due to MG and JAST these days, from what I can tell - sites don't want to cover unofficial patches, even for otherwise extremely popular stuff like CLANNAD (the anime being the popular part).

 

Lexicon: how did that one go, anyway? One of the actually interesting projects, I admit. Was too lazy to contribute.

 

Sprite/data extraction thread - start it. That said, the methods vary wildly from engine to engine, so this might be better served by threads asking for specific info in fan tl discussion. One possible method would be a pinned thread containing info on a wide variety of engines. You could probably steal a lot of it from other sites like TLWiki. Have to admit, if you're going that far it shouldn't be that hard to find the tools - maybe I'm overestimating people though.

 

The rest is either >opinion or stuff already covered by motivated, trustworthy people (admittedly trustworthiness is less needed for the pinned threads, as mods can check content before approving it).

 

Tl;dr either >opinions, stuff that would be good if people did it, and stuff that is currently pretty much impossible or ruled harmful by public or mod opinion.

 

Pretty much the only takeaway for me is getting more projects going. It's unlikely to be me, but you're right in this.

[Nosebleed]

Regulations: essentially tighter moderation? We do already have decent modding of threads going off topic, though I guess it could be stepped up. Explicit rules, other than the kind of small core we already have... tend to go badly, to be honest

Though I don't want to say much right now since i'm not in charge. This topic has been discussed among the staff not so long ago and there will most likely  be a thread about it soon clarifying a bunch of stuff related to rules and moderation.

Just so you know that this point is already being worked on. Though that's probably as much as I can say right now. 

[solidbatman]

 Sorry, but I don't understand why I'm the one being told this when it was in the OP, and I was just sharing my opinion; and I certainly didn't target any single person.

To quote:

"On the other hand I do not understand why spam threads such as the appreciations threads or the Majikoi IRC are allowed even in that subforum."

 

I wouldn't say that was needless at all.

Because it slipped by me. 

 

To clarify

Do not air any negativity regarding other threads in public please. Instead, please message a mod, or use the report feature which will alert us to the thread/post in question and allow us to take action privately. It makes the moderators lives so much more easy

[The Major]

Someone like me may never be able to meaningfully contribute to the cause of "Making Visual Novels Popular in the West". Or even have the desire to. I've never considered myself a 'leader', I have no desire to organize and run a major project. I don't know Japanese, so I can't translate text or anything. Could I learn? Sure, If I wanted to enough. But I don't. At the end of the day when I'm exhausted from work, I just want to do something which I find fun and relaxing like playing games, watching anime, and reading VNs. Writing a review would mean actually 100% completeing a VN, which I absolutely don't have the time to do, ever. That being said, a Sprite/Data extraction project sounds kind of cool, and I'd get involved in that if it was something I could do.

dictionary.com defines "chatter" as "purposeless or foolish talk". That's pretty much what goes on in there. G&C isn't a productive corner of Fuwa. I don't think it was ever meant to be. But it's fun. Yeah, I shitpost a lot, but I've also discovered new VNs since joining, shared my thoughts on ones I've read, helped fund ones I've heard about from here, and so on. I guess I don't actually contribute something meaningful. But I enjoy and appreciate the things other people do here. Is that not good enough?
 

To be honest, I'd rather wish to see Fuwanovel "less friendly", but more useful - both for people within and outside the community.

I like the friendly/relaxed atmosphere, I wouldn't have joined without it. I don't see why Fuwanovel needs to be "less friendly" in order to be "more useful". I wouldn't even want to contribute to something like that.
 

Personally, I find threads like the whole G&C section, voting systems, post count and other fluff completely meaningless and distracting

1. Don't post in Games & Chatter.
2. Don't use the voting system.
3. Ignore the post count.

 

One last thing:

There are tons or other place where it's possible to have fun so hold your forks and spears before calling out on me trying suffocate people enjoying their time on the forum.

Are you anti-fun, sir?

 

*throws 2 cents on the floor and struts out"

[Mr. Meogii]

I think the chatting that goes on in majikoi thread can only be expected. If a lot of people come together to talk about there love for the novel conversation are just bound to happen. So singling out one thread is not right and goes against this forums values of enjoying oneself. But I also think that there needs to be more Monitoring them if that's the case.

I remember once when I was told that my comments were going off topic and the topic would be closed down if that didn't stop so I think there needs to be more of that.

But then again it's really hard for the people in charge because they don't want to spoil peoples fun.

To be honest, I'd rather wish to see Fuvanovel "less friendly", but more useful - both for people within and outside the community.

I understand your opinion and respect it but I don't agree with you. I can guarantee you the fact that I didn't come here because the forum was useful. I came to Fuwa because it was friendly, fun and useful.

[monkeysrumble]

I have no problem with the G+C, as the name of the subforum suggests it's just random talking so people should be expecting what they are getting into when they go there. When I was a newcomer to Fuwa I was pretty uncomfortable going through the Visual Novel talk and other main forums just because I didn't really know anyone. The place I posted most frequently was the True and False thread and because of that I got warmed up to the community and slowly started to become a regular member. I'm not sure if I'm an anomaly on that but it did help a lot. What I do not support is the derailing of topics in the more serious forums.

 

I couldn't care less about the like system but I see no good reason to get rid of it because it's not really doing anything.

 

These are just my thoughts on the matter, today is kind of an off day so I'm kind of having trouble writing down my thoughts, sorry if I'm a bit confusing. I may post something else when my head clears up.

[Mephisto]

I'm not entirely sure what this thread is asking for. Site projects are things that are dependent upon members initiative in undergoing them, I'm not entirely sure what Fuwanovel can do as a website itself other than make visual novels actually available outside of japan. 

[Kynbound]

I could perhaps sympathize with Maef if Fuwa was a place designed solely for the purpose of seriously working on VN translations, but it's not.   It is a place for people who enjoy VN's to gather and share their enthusiasm for a similar hobby. "Making visual novels popular in the west".  Reading VN's is in itself a leisurely activity and done for the purpose of personal enjoyment.

 

 To single out the Majikoi thread is simply whining because he deems it to be an eyesore, and this thread is soley made for him to whine and complain.

 

The problem is that Fuwa is a community of individuals who are not like minded. Some people will like what you like and others will not. It isn't an issue it should be expected and accepted. Calling what other people enjoy doing worthless is a really closeminded and arrogant attitude to have.

 

Since this thread was actually being discussed somewhere i found interessing to post the high points of the conversation

[Darklord Rooke]

Isn't this line an oxymoron?

 

No.

 

Good post Maef + IceD. 

 

EDIT:

It makes the moderators lives so much more easy

 

Oh Bats, why would we want to make the moderators lives easier. You need something to do in the boring, hum-drum hours of the afternoon after all...

[Seath]

What of people who lack any sufficient skillset necessary to make what would be in your opinion a meaningful contribution to Fuwanovel? Should they be cast aside or ostracized simply because they came to Fuwanovel for the sole purpose of sharing their love of Visual Novels and discussing various topics with others?

 

"Fun is good, but it doesn't help."

 

Why do you read VN's Maefdomn? Is it not because you enjoy doing so? Why do people frequent the games and chatter section of Fuwanovel? Is it not because they enjoy doing so?

 

Most of us are here do not have the capability or will necessary to contribute Fuwanovel in a practical sense. Yet do we not contribute by simply being a fanbase? Something which is a product and aspect of the popularity of Visual Novels. We are here because we love VN's. We are here because we have found others that love VN"s and discovered a place where we can express our mutual fondness of VN's without being criticized or condemned for it.

 

"I don't think Games&Chatter should be considered the dumpyard of fuwanovel and that everything should be allowed in it."

 

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

It is easy enough to call something that you personally don't like trash and worthless, but don't you feel somewhat wrong for attempting to use your own opinions to try and disregard and trample upon the opinions of others?  If you don't like something personally isn't it better to just ignore it and not participate in it? Why do you feel the need to put down and demean others who do participate and enjoy the chatter section of Fuwa?

 

Ren's thread was thoughtful and welcoming, but in it's current form I can't see your thread as being anything more than lashing out at things you deem to be not not useful or unnecessary,

[Darklord Rooke]

It is easy enough to call something that you personally don't like trash and worthless, but don't you feel somewhat wrong for attempting to use your own opinions to try and disregard and trample upon the opinions of others?  If you don't like something personally isn't it better to just ignore it and not participate in it? Why do you feel the need to put down and demean others who do participate and enjoy the chatter section of Fuwa?

 

Hmmm, why should he? He's questioning the worth of some discussions on Fuwa and I see no problem with that. I don't see him trampling on the opinions of others. Every forum has a set of rules in place to curtail the behaviour of the members. You cannot just have people run around free to do whatever they want and tell others to ignore such behaviour. In the real world this will lead to anarchy, and in the virtual world this leads to... well, a jumbled mess. There are rules in place right now that limit what people can do in the G&C section. An acquaintance of mine was warned recently about continuously derailing threads, and while she was having a lot of FUN doing so, and ENJOYING herself immensely, and while some fun conversations were springing up, forums (like anyplace really) do have behaviour codes to make places a)more appealing to the public and b)further their aims and ambitions. Where they draw the line is always a juggling act though, and shutting down discussions concerning what should and shouldn't be allowed wouldn't be a healthy thing to do.

 

Whether Maef is right or not, well that's up for people to decide. I do think the question of excessive spam in the G&C is a legitimate issue. For example, in a certain thread which used to be for translation, members have continuously entered asking for the status of the project and bemoaning the fact they can't find any information in that thread. Now, the members of said thread instantly reply that the question has already been answered, too bad these answers are instantly buried under pages and pages of spam. Spam about... God knows what. The moderators should have taken action against that thread a long time ago. And more than just moving it to G&C btw. I don't care how much the people in it are enjoying themselves, it was a translation thread, not a thread to fuck around in. G&C is NOT a dumping ground for threads which are 'too fucking hard to moderate.' As it was, it got to an absurd state before the moderators could even be bothered to take action... what minimal action they took.

 

Another example, I'd like to see the AMA threads consolidated into a SINGLE THREAD. Having 100 different AMA threads popping up about members fills the front page of the thing with...many topics all about the same thing, all about getting to know members of the community. If you want to introduce yourself to the community (AGAIN), and want people to know ALL ABOUT YOU, isn't that what the introduce yourself forum is for?  It doesn't have to be only for new members. It's about Games and Chatter, it's not a 'getting to know everybody' forum. Go to the Introduce Yourself place for that.

 

In short, yes the place is for chat, but it needs some moderation. 

 

Concerning Ren's thread, I like the guy. He's a decent fella, he does some good things around the community. I thought his thread was a circle-jerk though. 

[OriginalRen]

What helps improve the forum are the serious projects which are individually initiated or as a group . May they come to an end or not, they all push fuwa in the right direction.Projects create dynamism, they give to the forum a purpose other than just welcoming, they get people involved in something new, something they can relate to and say "I was part of that".

The project board has however been dead for the past 3 months even though many great projects which were previously discussed are still unapplied.

 

I have a suggestion regarding project promotion! A lot of times when I take on a lot of projects, I find it helpful to keep a log of them so I don't forget what it is I am trying to accomplish. As for the content of my projects, I try to take on a variety of things ranging from community oriented and informative projects as you mention in your post, to a little more silly and laid back. For the Fuwanovel community, I try balancing the list and look for opportunities to get everyone involved, either directly or indirectly. An indirect example would be my visual novel streaming, where a direct example would be working toward reviving the podcast. The list is there to help me keep track of what I take on, and if I feel it's too much, I'll cut back some.

 

I realized I sort of buried this post in the recesses of the GD forums, so if you or anyone in this thread has more suggestions for projects that are within my grasp, I am more than willing to take on some new ones! Here is the link to the list. I try to keep it updated at least every week if possible on the status of current things. Check it out!

 

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/4785-rens-organizational-page-projects-updates-etc/

[Seath]

Hmmm, why should he? He's questioning the worth of some discussions on Fuwa and I see no problem with that.

In what capacity does anyone have the right to judge the worth or merit of someone else's discussions so long as they abide by the rules?

 

You cannot just have people run around free to do whatever they want and tell others to ignore such behaviour. In the real world this will lead to anarchy, and in the virtual world this leads to... well, a jumbled mess. There are rules in place right now that limit what people can do in the G&C section. An acquaintance of mine was warned recently about continuously derailing threads, and while she was having a lot of FUN doing so, and ENJOYING herself immensely, and while some fun conversations were springing up, forums (like anyplace really) do have behaviour codes to make places a)more appealing to the public and b)further their aims and ambitions. Where they draw the line is always a juggling act though, and shutting down discussions concerning what should and shouldn't be allowed wouldn't be a healthy thing to do.

 

Whether Maef is right or not, well that's up for people to decide. I do think the question of excessive spam in the G&C is a legitimate issue. For example, in a certain thread which used to be for translation, members have continuously entered asking for the status of the project and bemoaning the fact they can't find any information in that thread. Now, the members of said thread instantly reply that the question has already been answered, too bad these answers are instantly buried under pages and pages of spam. Spam about... God knows what. The moderators should have taken action against that thread a long time ago. And more than just moving it to G&C btw. I don't care how much the people in it are enjoying themselves, it was a translation thread, not a thread to fuck around in. G&C is NOT a dumping ground for threads which are 'too fucking hard to moderate.' As it was, it got to an absurd state before the moderators could even be bothered to take action... what minimal action they took.

Regarding the Miyako thread the progress for the translation while not as detailed as some may like is available to see on the very first post of the thread.

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/2060-majikoi-miyako-route-translation-aka-random-talk/#entry34008

 

If the progress wasn't there when you checked it last then it was because the translation group had not previously noted an ETA, but is it not simple enough to create a post to ask what the TL progress is if you can't be bothered to find it yourself?

 

I can sympathize with you if your are upset that the Majikoi thread seemed to get a free pass for going off topic, but the decision to turn the thread into a random banter thread was the solution that was decided upon by the mods and the thread currently is in no way a detriment to Fuwanovel at all. Being moved to the games and chatter section your posts no longer count and it doesn't interfere with the rest of the forum in any way. To me it seems more of a case of I personally find this thread to be an eyesore kind of scenario.

[Darklord Rooke]

In what capacity does anyone have the right to judge the worth or merit of someone else's discussions so long as they abide by the rules?

 

Regarding the Miyako thread the progress for the translation while not as detailed as some may like is available to see on the very first post of the thread.

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/2060-majikoi-miyako-route-translation-aka-random-talk/#entry34008

 

If the progress wasn't there when you checked it last then it was because the translation group had not previously noted an ETA, but is it not simple enough to create a post to ask what the TL progress is if you can't be bothered to find it yourself?

 

I can sympathize with you if your are upset that the Majikoi thread seemed to get a free pass for going off topic, but the decision to turn the thread into a random banter thread was the solution that was decided upon by the mods and the thread currently is in no way a detriment to Fuwanovel at all. Being moved to the games and chatter section your posts no longer count and it doesn't interfere with the rest of the forum in any way. To me it seems more of a case of I personally find this thread to be an eyesore kind of scenario.

 

People are free to make any judgements they like upon anything which does or does not affect them or their experiences. They are under no obligation to follow any moral code you have established for yourself (which sounds like an admirable one, btw). Discussing amendments to the rules concerning what should and should not be allowed has to be a part of any healthy community; only allowing praise for the community, and shovelling all the negative comments out of sight is not good. Too many places are ruined by over or undermoderating, and constant feedback (from outside the moderator bubble) is a decent way to prevent that. Especially considering the founder of this project is no longer with us, and Fuwanovel is starting to move away from what she wanted in the first place. I have had a number of people say to me how excited they were when Fuwa was just starting, but they no longer feel so enthusiastic about the project. I also am no longer as enthused as I once was. It's still a good place to chat, but Fuwa was created with so much more in mind. I think that it's good that somebody has finally started to express their concerns. I want to go further, but what I have to say is much harsher than what Maef has said, and probably a tad unjustified, so I'll keep it between myself and some acquaintances.

 

It is not a commonly followed practice to check the 1st post of the thread for updates. It is done, but it shouldn't be assumed 'general knowledge'. You should find a way to communicate that to the people looking for information. Ideally, because there's so much stuff in there that information is lost, you should include that in the title, but somebody's tacked a 'RANDOM TALK' on there as well. From what I saw of the thread, and from what I saw the last time someone asked a question (where they got a non-detailed answer, and a comment that the question had been asked before) people may feel a little intimidated leaping in to ask. I may be wrong there though, I certainly don't frequent the thread often.

 

If the decision was to turn it into a random banter thread, it should have been completely turned into a random banter thread. Why's it still named a translation thread then? With all the information concerning the translation still inside? It means anybody who wants information has to brave the 'random banter' thread. Half-arsed, half-implemented solution. The ideal solution would have been to SEPARATE the banter from the information and create 2 threads, but the mods sat on their hands for so damn long the thread became 100 pages, and they probably thought 'fuck no, I ain't doing it.'

 

I don't like how it's six of one, half a dozen of another. It's not quite a random banter thread, and it's still sorta a translation thread. And I'd like to make a short addition to a comment I made earlier. I'm looking at a dictionary reference and I'm seeing the word 'introduce' defined as 'present a person so as to make acquainted' etc etc. Is this not what the AMA's are doing? Why are they not in 'Introduce Yourself'?

[Jun Inoue]

People are free to make any judgements they like upon anything which does or does not affect them or their experiences. They are under no obligation to follow any moral code you have established for yourself (which sounds like an admirable one, btw). Discussing amendments to the rules concerning what should and should not be allowed has to be a part of any healthy community; only allowing praise for the community, and shovelling all the negative comments out of sight is not good. Too many places are ruined by over or undermoderating, and constant feedback (from outside the moderator bubble) is a decent way to prevent that. Especially considering the founder of this project is no longer with us, and Fuwanovel is starting to move away from what she wanted in the first place. I have had a number of people say to me how excited they were when Fuwa was just starting, but they no longer feel so enthusiastic about the project. I also am no longer as enthused as I once was. It's still a good place to chat, but Fuwa was created with so much more in mind. I think that it's good that somebody has finally started to express their concerns. I want to go further, but what I have to say is much harsher than what Maef has said, and probably a tad unjustified, so I'll keep it between myself and some acquaintances.

 

It is not a commonly followed practice to check the 1st post of the thread for updates. It is done, but it shouldn't be assumed 'general knowledge'. You should find a way to communicate that to the people looking for information. Ideally, because there's so much stuff in there that information is lost, you should include that in the title, but somebody's tacked a 'RANDOM TALK' on there as well. From what I saw of the thread, and from what I saw the last time someone asked a question (where they got a non-detailed answer, and a comment that the question had been asked before) people may feel a little intimidated leaping in to ask. I may be wrong there though, I certainly don't frequent the thread often.

 

If the decision was to turn it into a random banter thread, it should have been completely turned into a random banter thread. Why's it still named a translation thread then? With all the information concerning the translation still inside? It means anybody who wants information has to brave the 'random banter' thread. Half-arsed, half-implemented solution. The ideal solution would have been to SEPARATE the banter from the information and create 2 threads, but the mods sat on their hands for so damn long the thread became 100 pages, and they probably thought 'fuck no, I ain't doing it.'

 

I don't like how it's six of one, half a dozen of another. It's not quite a random banter thread, and it's still sorta a translation thread. And I'd like to make a short addition to a comment I made earlier. I'm looking at a dictionary reference and I'm seeing the word 'introduce' defined as 'present a person so as to make acquainted' etc etc. Is this not what the AMA's are doing? Why are they not in 'Introduce Yourself'?

We get quite a number of people ask about the progress constantly, and always tell them. The only time I remember saying ti someone "please check the posts" was when someone demanded (not asked) a detailed explanation on the progress when it has been said a couple of posts above.

Considering that what used to be anons are now registered users who enjoy the chat, and that in no way we are aggressive towards newcomers, I fail to see how the Majikoi thread demands any bravery from anyone.

 

The critique would probably make more sense, too, if it didn't feel to all of us like a "I really dislike that thread, so screw it". If I saw a regular visitor of that thread making concerns, I would talk with him about them, but the posts here just give me that feeling I said.

[Darklord Rooke]

We get quite a number of people ask about the progress constantly, and always tell them. The only time I remember saying ti someone "please check the posts" was when someone demanded (not asked) a detailed explanation on the progress when it has been said a couple of posts above.

Considering that what used to be anons are now registered users who enjoy the chat, and that in no way we are aggressive towards newcomers, I fail to see how the Majikoi thread demands any bravery from anyone.

 

The critique would probably make more sense, too, if it didn't feel to all of us like a "I really dislike that thread, so screw it". If I saw a regular visitor of that thread making concerns, I would talk with him about them, but the posts here just give me that feeling I said.

 

Spam attracts spammers. Sometimes you'll get people who want information and like to spam. For people who just want information, it's a deterrent. The guy I saw made 2 posts, his last one being "Well it may be fun for the people talking.... but I assure you for the people who just want updates on the translation its not fun looking through over 100 pages of this. As the mod pointed out you guys should talk on irc or something." Which is very sensible. And while it's admirable for you to take the concerns of regular visitors on board, you are forgetting that people who solely want information won't become regular visitors. 

 

I dislike the thread too. Make it a random banter thread, or a translation thread. The hybrid you have currently is hella annoying.

[Jun Inoue]

Spam attracts spammers. Sometimes you'll get people who want information and like to spam. For people who just want information, it's a deterrent. The guy I saw made 2 posts, his last one being "Well it may be fun for the people talking.... but I assure you for the people who just want updates on the translation its not fun looking through over 100 pages of this. As the mod pointed out you guys should talk on irc or something." Which is very sensible. And while it's admirable for you to take the concerns of regular visitors on board, you are forgetting that people who solely want information won't become regular visitors. 

 

I dislike the thread too. Make it a random banter thread, or a translation thread. The hybrid you have currently is hella annoying.

Nothing stops anyone from simply asking for the progress, appart from the fact that the thread author already updated the first post for anyone who doesn't want to ask. Also, let us not lie to ourselves, noone unless the people who enjoy reading it, go through all the pages to look for the progress.

Absolutely every person asking us for it, has stated they were asking cuz they couldn't bother with looking for it. And what did we do? We simply gave them the progress. And people has been glad that there's a thread with people still waiting on a daily basis for the Majikoi translation, instead of this being another Yandere or Wairu, where people just crossed their fingers hoping the project wasn't dead.

 

And cuz I didn't explicitly say it before: we have had quite a bunch of people who simply logged in, asked for the progress, and were never seen again, so that people who just want the info, also get it.

[Darklord Rooke]

... I usually skim the pages looking for progress . Not yours obviously, I just assume its stalled *shrugs*. As a person who does look for information, and has little patience (normally) for randomness, I don't usually go to yours. It's in G&C, it's got random talk in the title, that screams to me that it's no longer ongoing. I usually like to fish extra bits of information about the game or route out of the thread, but I can't. So I avoid it. Maybe I'm a freakish individual and am the only person in the world like this, but my gut says I'm not.

 

I have no idea why you won't separate the information out from the random banter, it's as if you want to make things difficult for everybody. As someone who's only after information, I gloss over it. The thread I mean. 

[Seath]

People are free to make any judgements they like upon anything which does or does not affect them or their experiences. They are under no obligation to follow any moral code you have established for yourself (which sounds like an admirable one, btw). Discussing amendments to the rules concerning what should and should not be allowed has to be a part of any healthy community; only allowing praise for the community, and shovelling all the negative comments out of sight is not good. Too many places are ruined by over or undermoderating, and constant feedback (from outside the moderator bubble) is a decent way to prevent that. Especially considering the founder of this project is no longer with us, and Fuwanovel is starting to move away from what she wanted in the first place. I have had a number of people say to me how excited they were when Fuwa was just starting, but they no longer feel so enthusiastic about the project. I also am no longer as enthused as I once was. It's still a good place to chat, but Fuwa was created with so much more in mind. I think that it's good that somebody has finally started to express their concerns. I want to go further, but what I have to say is much harsher than what Maef has said, and probably a tad unjustified, so I'll keep it between myself and some acquaintances.

 

It is not a commonly followed practice to check the 1st post of the thread for updates. It is done, but it shouldn't be assumed 'general knowledge'. You should find a way to communicate that to the people looking for information. Ideally, because there's so much stuff in there that information is lost, you should include that in the title, but somebody's tacked a 'RANDOM TALK' on there as well. From what I saw of the thread, and from what I saw the last time someone asked a question (where they got a non-detailed answer, and a comment that the question had been asked before) people may feel a little intimidated leaping in to ask. I may be wrong there though, I certainly don't frequent the thread often.

 

If the decision was to turn it into a random banter thread, it should have been completely turned into a random banter thread. Why's it still named a translation thread then? With all the information concerning the translation still inside? It means anybody who wants information has to brave the 'random banter' thread. Half-arsed, half-implemented solution. The ideal solution would have been to SEPARATE the banter from the information and create 2 threads, but the mods sat on their hands for so damn long the thread became 100 pages, and they probably thought 'fuck no, I ain't doing it.'

 

I don't like how it's six of one, half a dozen of another. It's not quite a random banter thread, and it's still sorta a translation thread. And I'd like to make a short addition to a comment I made earlier. I'm looking at a dictionary reference and I'm seeing the word 'introduce' defined as 'present a person so as to make acquainted' etc etc. Is this not what the AMA's are doing? Why are they not in 'Introduce Yourself'?

Not so much a moral code, but rather I like to think that I attempt to practice proper etiquette when dealing with those that might not necessarily be of the same opinion as myself.

 

For example I as a straight male do not like yaoi at all, but if someone wished to make a thread that was yaoi based I could still respect their decision to do so. Of course I wouldn't go there myself, but I wouldn't slander the thread and the people who frequent it by openly calling it a garbage thread. There is a difference between forming an opinion of something and expressing it in a negative way. We must be careful that our negative opinions towards something don't become a prejudice that affects others because that is something that isn't okay regardless of moral codes.

 

This has now evolved into thread-bashing.

 

As for the AMA's I personally feel that they are more banter than introduction and would be better at home in a sub-forum under games and chatter.