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Okami

Do you think that VNTLS is dead and what should be done about it?

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From what I can tell it seems that absolutely none updates on VNTLS have been made in last 2 mouths so there is a possibility that it is dead. So I was wondering what you think about it? Also if it does turn up that it is dead do you think that something should be done about it? On fuwa main site we have a tracking system of projects similar to the one VNTLS but it is limited to only VNs that would eventually be available for download on fuwa. So I thought that if VNTLs turns up to be dead we could create a pinned topic in VN discussions for tracking all project statuses and update it once a week in a similar style that I created a topic about all fully translated VNs. If we do decide to do this I am volunteering for creating and updating this thread by myself but like in topic "Complete list of ALL English translated VNs" I can do only non-nukige titles and if community wants them to someone else will have to take that role and work on Nukige titles. I am thinking that we could do this in a similar style like that other topic having two posts one for non-nukige titles that I would work on and for nukige titles that someone else would work one (True I don't care if this second post is non-existing) and thrid post would be from someone from stuff saying that people don't post there and instead post in another thread that would be used for commenting on statuses and for letting as know if we missed something. So what are your thoughts about it?

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I actually didn't know about the existence of this until now, but I still prefer to check the official websites of the translator groups, that way I can follow it more closely (and some unfortunate times to know when the project died immediately).

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I think it's better to just use the translation project's site instead of third party websites personally. I'm not really following every single translation project. Don't know how you're going to keep track of everything if you intend to make a thread for this, you'll pretty much be doing what VNTLS is doing which I think will take a ton of effort though I won't stop you from trying.

 

Also moving this to the Project Requests Board, seems more fitting there.

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Is it really that tedious to translate visual novels or is there really a serial killer hunting down anyone who even has anything to do with it?

Punishment for piracy and/or translating without official consent. Screw you, world.

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Erogegames posts all the VN translation status every sunday, actually.

We could do something similar, though.

http://erogegames.com/eroge-visual-novels/eroge-news/

Didn't know about this, that's actually pretty helpful, I'm bookmarking it.

 

What I'm wondering is who's going to keep track of everything. Only one person can make the thread.

Also where will these threads go? They seem like they could earn their own subforum in the fan translation board (?) in my opinion just so it won't fill up other boards and so they're easy to find. 

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Is it really that tedious to translate visual novels or is there really a serial killer hunting down anyone who even has anything to do with it?

Punishment for piracy and/or translating without official consent. Screw you, world.

 

Actually fan-translations are not illegal or piracy.

 

 

I think it's better to just use the translation project's site instead of third party websites personally. I'm not really following every single translation project. Don't know how you're going to keep track of everything if you intend to make a thread for this, you'll pretty much be doing what VNTLS is doing which I think will take a ton of effort though I won't stop you from trying.

 

Also moving this to the Project Requests Board, seems more fitting there.

 

As there is around 200-500 projects that means visiting 200-500 sites and copying 200-500 once a week that is really not that hard for me, the only question is if people will find this helpfull or not. Well finding out about new projects and fallowing statuses of localised commpanies projects might be a harder part but I can probably find my way with that too.

 

 

Erogegames posts all the VN translation status every sunday, actually.

We could do something similar, though.

http://erogegames.co...els/eroge-news/

 

It dosn't seem to me that erogames.com has all projects there.

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Didn't know about this, that's actually pretty helpful, I'm bookmarking it.

What I'm wondering is who's going to keep track of everything. Only one person can make the thread.

Also where will these threads go? They seem like they could earn their own subforum in the fan translation board (?) in my opinion just so it won't fill up other boards and so they're easy to find.

First of all, I'd want to talk to Ryu about it. While they also take it from somewhere else, it just wouldn't feel right to take it from them without saying anything. If possible, I'd love it if we could have friendly relations with them, after all.

After that, we make a thread in the fuwa improvements and try to convince Steve to make a new subforum. If it doesn't work, we post it on the fan trasnaltion board, I guess.

It dosn't seem to me that erogames.com has all projects there.

They only have active projects. Projects that didn't post any update in the last months were removed. If they post something again, they're added again.

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Is it really that tedious to translate visual novels or is there really a serial killer hunting down anyone who even has anything to do with it?

Punishment for piracy and/or translating without official consent. Screw you, world.

There's a lot of stuff, I'm pretty sure. Like, actually getting the others to work with you. Or maybe if someone doesn't actually get their work done, or people work super slowly. From what I've seen, taking the role of say, translator, tends to be fairly time consuming. When people have responsibilities to take care of, translating can just end up becoming too big of a problem.

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As there is around 200-500 projects that means visiting 200-500 sites and copying 200-500 once a week that is really not that hard for me, the only question is if people will find this helpfull or not. Well finding out about new projects and fallowing statuses of localised commpanies projects might be a harder part but I can probably find my way with that too.

If you're confident you can make it then I guess it's okay.

And I personally would find these types of threads helpful if they're like the ones Kaguya just posted. They're easy to skim through and give you all the details you could want.

 

First of all, I'd want to talk to Ryu about it. While they also take it from somewhere else, it just wouldn't feel right to take it from them without saying anything. If possible, I'd love it if we could have friendly relations with them, after all.

 

After that, we make a thread in the fuwa improvements and try to convince Steve to make a new subforum. If it doesn't work, we post it on the fan trasnaltion board, I guess.

We could do it ourselves which is what Okami seemed to want. In my opinion it seems like a lot of effort but if someone else does it I believe we can too.

I wouldn't mind using their threads but then we're pretty much relying on them for this stuff, originality sounds better.

 

I am for making a thread asking to make the subforum though but only after deciding on how this will be done.

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I don't think we need a whole subforum for it, two topic would be enough one for updating statuses and one for comenting on them.

The thing with the subforum is that every update is separated by dates whereas a whole thread will have every update in it and you'll have a harder time skimming through it and finding what you want. Granted you'll probably just want the latest post but still you might want to know projects that were started/stalled/dropped etc in between updates and that's why I believe individual threads would be more helpful. And of course you could comment on each one and discuss on the updates without moving to another thread.

 

Making a thread to discuss updates separate from the updates themselves is not optimal. Also you'd have to keep the update thread locked so people won't comment on it (granted that's not really a big issue). It just sounds like a hassle having to go check on updates, then moving to another thread to comment on it.

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Well I get to work than, for now I will create a thread in Fan Translation Discussion and if later we decide to create a subforum for it we can easily move it. Also locking a topic is out of question because than I couldn't update it anymore thats why thread "Complete list of ALL English translated VNs" is unlocked.

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Well I get to work than, for now I will create a thread in Fan Translation Discussion and if later we decide to create a subforum for it we can easily move it. Also locking a topic is out of question because than I couldn't update it anymore thats why thread "Complete list of ALL English translated VNs" is unlocked.

Then you'll have people commenting on the thread that's not supposed to be commented on if it's not locked. I wouldn't mind unlocking it for you to make new posts and then lock it again, that's why I said that's not a big deal. My biggest problem with it is that you're separating the updates from the discussion. It doesn't sound optimal at all. People like to read and then comment below. With this you're forcing them to move threads.

Also separate threads for each update are better because then the updates will appear in the new content box on the main forum page which will make them more noticeable.

 

I think you should hold off on creating a thread before deciding on how is the structure going to be. Remember this can help improve fuwa and in my opinion this could be very helpful so i'd like to have a solid structure formulated before going off and making threads.

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Then you'll have people commenting on the thread that's not supposed to be commented on if it's not locked. I wouldn't mind unlocking it for you to make new posts and then lock it again, that's why I said that's not a big deal. My biggest problem with it is that you're separating the updates from the discussion. It doesn't sound optimal at all. People like to read and then comment below. With this you're forcing them to move threads.

Also separate threads are better because then the updates will appear in the new content box on the main forum page which will make them more noticeable.

 

I think you should hold off on creating a thread before deciding on how is the structure going to be. Remember this can help improve fuwa and in my opinion this could be very helpful so i'd like to have a solid structure formulated before going off and making threads.

 

Well ok than I will hold off until we decide how to do it. And when I think about it having a subforum for it might be a better idea after all, probably one under a topic Fan Translation Discussion. Well I guess that we now sit and wait for Tay or Steve to come online.

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Well ok than I will hold off until we decide how to do it. And when I think about it having a subforum for it might be a better idea after all, probably one under a topic Fan Translation Discussion. Well I guess that we now sit and wait for Tay or Steve to come online.

Certainly if there was a subforum for it it would help keep things tidy though it's not a requirement.

If a subforum can't be created then they can be posted on the fan translation board. You could give each thread a common tag so they're easy to find too. Regardless separate threads for each update are more helpful in my opinion.

 

Also this seems like something the VNAer could use. We don't have a consistent influx of posts so this could help a lot in keeping the blog more active. I would like to use these posts on it. I think it'd be a great way to use them. They'll appear on the main site too which gets more influx than the forum does.

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VNTL may be out of commission, but remember that VNTL is really nothing but a more formatted verion of VNTS, which has been posted weekly for at least the last 5 years now (dear god it's been that  long).  I realize there is animosity between /jp/ and fuwa, but either visiting VNTS or mirroring it here seems like a reasonable option if you really want one.  I suppose you could do what VNTS-kun does and check each group's homepage and compile a list manually, but at that point it feels like doiing redundant work (although we do dread the day when VNTS-kun dies, looses interest, or otherwise disappears)?

 

 

 

 

Is it really that tedious to translate visual novels

Yes.

Take Koiiro for example, it's a 'medium length' game at ~270,000 words, which is longer than Crime and Punishment.  It's almost equivalent to translating Catch-22 twice or To Kill A Mockingbird three times.  Many groups start a TL without realizeing that and tend to fizzle out.  And getting aid from a machine TL doens't make it any easier; in the end it's a gigantic pile of work that takes time, dedication, and skill.

 

 

 

Actually fan-translations are not illegal or piracy.

If you live in the US, fan-transations are illegal. Translations are a derivative work, which needs express permission from the copyright holder in order to be legal, regardless if you make money, regardless if it was made in Japan, regardless if it is 'a piece of software', regardless if you use the internet to distribute it, etc.  Without that express permission they are illegal, period (unless in the public domain, but literally no VN has been around long enough to have fallen into public doman naturally).  That said, the copyright holder may not take a group's TL and repurpose it without the group's permission, because it is also copyrighted (by default) by the group.  There may be special exceptions depending on where you live in the world, but these rules are fairly consistent.  All that said, most Eroge companies don't care enough to try and hunt fan tanslators down, and a special few many even realize that it generally helps them more than it hurts them.

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Certainly if there was a subforum for it it would help keep things tidy though it's not a requirement.

If a subforum can't be created then they can be posted on the fan translation board. You could give each thread a common tag so they're easy to find too. Regardless separate threads for each update are more helpful in my opinion.

 

Also this seems like something the VNAer could use. We don't have a consistent influx of posts so this could help a lot in keeping the blog more active. I would like to use these posts on it. I think it'd be a great way to use them. They'll appear on the main site too which gets more influx than the forum does.

 

Well I can't edit a main site or VNAer but I can just create a threads on forum and then you can copy paste them to VNAer and Main site if you found it to be needed.

 

 

If you live in the US, fan-transations are illegal. Translations are a derivative work, which needs express permission from the copyright holder in order to be legal, regardless if you make money, regardless if it was made in Japan, etc.  Without that express permission they are illegal, period (unless in the public domain, but literally no VN has been around long enough to have fallen into public doman naturally).  That said, the copyright holder may not take a group's TL and repurpose it without the group's permission, because it is also copyrighted (by default) by the group.  There may be special exceptions depending on where you live in the world, but these rules are fairly consistent.  All that said, most Eroge companies don't care enough to try and hunt fan tanslators down, and a special few many even realize that it generally helps them more than it hurts them.

 

That is for books and novels I don't think that VNs are part of that as VNs are software and fan-translators aren't distributing a software only translation patches that can only be used with software that they are not distributing. So it is at least borderline legal. But this is totally off topic.

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if you go ahead with this, It should hopefully be fairly easy to put those posts on the blog. Me, nosebleed and shcboomer have privileges for now (and a few others, but they are even more slack than us.) Markup might be a minor problem, but should be doable. Maybe I'll be bored enough to write a c program to process it because I can't be arsed to learn more convenient languages!

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That would be a great addition.

Putting it on the blog would be the best indeed.

 

But as you said, then comes the problem of getting the info, be it on /jp/ or on erogegames.com as Kaguya said.

 

The other problem is keeping this up.

It's a lot of work for the bloggers.

 

But yeah, if you guys have the motivation go for it. and if you need help i'd be glad to participate.

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That would be a great addition.

Putting it on the blog would be the best indeed.

 

But as you said, then comes the problem of getting the info, be it on /jp/ or on erogegames.com as Kaguya said.

 

The other problem is keeping this up.

It's a lot of work for the bloggers.

 

But yeah, if you guys have the motivation go for it. and if you need help i'd be glad to participate.

 

Actually I planed on getting info directly from translators sites.

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We could ask Erogegames if we can use their post. Building relationships with other sites is a good thing.

I just think writing this from scratch is reduntant when the same info is already posted somewhere else so we'll be putting needless effort in a way.

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