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Legality discussion


daniel

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Hey all, I recently deleted all the VNs I did not purchase myself. I was wondering if downloading a VN you didn't own could be legally permissible in any case (no longer up for purchase is the only case I can think of, and even that seems questionable if it is still under copyright in Japanese law). Of course, there are free VNs too, Katawa Shoujo and various Ren'py games... I'd like to play without feeling guilty of depriving the artists and writers of their due. I had an experience of not getting recompense for some of my work and felt that karma was a b!

 

So, any recommendations for legally free novels?

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In all honesty there aren't a whole lot of free VN's. The only famous one that really comes to mind is Katawa Shoujo which you already mentioned. The other thing you could do is buy and import the hard copy of the VN you want and just download the english patch, but the pricea on VN's are usually extremely hjgh. Kaguya or Clephas would probably be more helpful here.

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As far as I know legally it's never permissible to pirate something. Ethically, however, I can see why people might not want to pirate absolutely everything they see, especially if they've had their creation pirated, but if it's, for example, impossible to get where you live, or it's impossible to get it because it's really old or something, I can't find fault with that. A case can also be made for games that have fan translations/localizations - if the company wanted your money they would have localized it themselves, so since they didn't want your money, them not getting it isn't a loss for them, although it's a bit more of a grey area.

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there's also all the cheaper priced ones that come from green light, steam and kickstarter with these you get a new game for a reasonable price (mostly) and support the indie developers trying to break in to the business. also look through the vndb for oel vns they re often free  but in those cases you get what you pay for most the time meaning the game is free for the reason of no one will ever pay for that. i think as flutterz pointed out for fan translations its a grey area while yes your pirating the game its self the patch that makes it playable is a product of fan work so its a bit dicey of a argument.

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Maybe it is different for officially translated visual novels but for the fantranslated ones, I don't see downloading as a bad thing at all. If you couldn't download them you (and a lot of other people) wouldn't have ever bought it anyway.

 

Edit: Ah, what the article says! You should read it. ^_^

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VNs market is in Japan they don't really offer their services to the west so you pirating them dosen't heart companies in any way as you are not part of their targeted market as you can't buy them legally. So with exception of mangagamer's, Justusa's, moenovel's etc. titles you aren't doing anything wrong when you torrent a VN. And there is also stuff that is written here too.

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VNs market is in Japan they don't really offer their services to the west so you pirating them dosen't heart companies in any way as you are not part of their targeted market as you can't buy them legally. So with exception of mangagamer's, Justusa's, moenovel's etc. titles you aren't doing anything wrong when you torrent a VN. And there is also stuff that is written here too.

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Ok, I've come to the conclusion that the international copyright treaty, Berne Convention, is to protect goods that are actually sold between countries. Many of these games have not been made available. So a good compromise is to buy games that are translated and released in America, but otherwise it seems fine to take advantage of torrents. This means that additionally, I'm going to have to refrain from torrenting licensed anime now to be consistent, but at least there's still places to view it streaming and anime that hasn't been licensed.

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Ok, I've come to the conclusion that the international copyright treaty, Berne Convention, is to protect goods that are actually sold between countries. Many of these games have not been made available. So a good compromise is to buy games that are translated and released in America, but otherwise it seems fine to take advantage of torrents. This means that additionally, I'm going to have to refrain from torrenting licensed anime now to be consistent, but at least there's still places to view it streaming and anime that hasn't been licensed.

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Yarrrrrr is this a pirates camp?????? JKS

jokes aside, i downloaded most of my eroges.However i do own hard copy some eroges and vnis their original language.I have majikoi,majikoi s,Koi choco, Grisaia trilogy, Tsujido-san no junai road and mamy others, bought them when i went to Japan. I did however bought Choudengeki stryker and shuffle from the translator company.

It is expensive but they have their own reason for it. Please keep supportin translator company if you can.

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Ok, I've come to the conclusion that the international copyright treaty, Berne Convention, is to protect goods that are actually sold between countries. Many of these games have not been made available. So a good compromise is to buy games that are translated and released in America, but otherwise it seems fine to take advantage of torrents. This means that additionally, I'm going to have to refrain from torrenting licensed anime now to be consistent, but at least there's still places to view it streaming and anime that hasn't been licensed.

 

 If that is what you disaded fell free to torrent all that is on fuwa main site as fuwa main site doesn't have any licensed titles.

 

 

your too hardcore for me man, ill take my free stuff thanx being a poor family man on a shoestring fixed income my choices are slim lol.

 

I am with you there, true I am not a family man and I live alone I too don't have money to spare on VNs as I am living on one meal a day as it is.

 

I will leave supporting companies to people who can afford it.

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I generally don't like it when people get on a high horse about piracy. I find the manifesto on the main Fuwanovel site kind of silly, to be honest. I do pirate a lot of things, but I also just accept that this is morally wrong and don't try to pretend otherwise. It's also why I try to buy and support the creators when I can.

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Honestly, if I could afford to buy all the VNs I read, I would, but since I can't, I don't.  It's not like they're being legally sold in the U.S.; I'd have to pay a ton of money to get a physical copy shipped here, and I'd still have to download an English patch to even be able to understand it.  It'd be different if they sold digital copies that were already translated by the developers, but it's not...

 

Here's what I ask myself:  Can I obtain this legally without a huge amount of hassle (includes extra amounts of time and money)?  If no, then I pirate it.  If yes, then I pay for it.  I don't feel bad about piracy because I only pirate products out of desperation or necessity.  I know it's morally wrong, but sometimes I just don't care.  It's definitely not the worst thing I could be doing on the internet, anyway.

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I don't think there is a problem with pirating something that will never be available in my country ( I live in Jordan, after all  :lol: ). even so, I buy any product available in English without pirating, by shipping from Dubai if it was physical. I've bought Virtue's Last Reward and AA series and other games. I believe that if I want to enjoy more products of this type and quality, then I should vote with my wallet, and it costs me a lot because of taxes and shipping :wacko:

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My collection is at 153 as of the fifteenth.  I keep the packages unopened though... I've got so many imported jrpgs in my backlog as well...

 

I'll be straight with yall.  When it comes to VNs, I believe in paying if you can.  If you can't... I won't presume to judge, unless it is with officially localized games. 

 

Also, resurrecting the piracy convo on this forum... I honestly don't think it is in good taste.  I love Aaeru, but she and I have greatly differing ideas when it comes to economics.

 

Edit: My feelings on the localized games come from all the years before I got a job, when I shaved every cent I could off my allowance (I wasn't allowed to work part-time by my parents) to save up for games I wanted.  I valued those games greatly, and I enjoyed the good ones all the more for the lunches I didn't eat and the books I avoided buying in order to save up for them.  I know that people habitually upload the localized games on torrents, but if you have the money or can save up the money for them, you should pay. 

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I generally don't like it when people get on a high horse about piracy. I find the manifesto on the main Fuwanovel site kind of silly, to be honest. I do pirate a lot of things, but I also just accept that this is morally wrong and don't try to pretend otherwise. It's also why I try to buy and support the creators when I can.

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So @OP - if you want to be Mr Saint, you must refrain form pirating ANYTHING, officially translated or not, sold in your country or not, etc (the only valid exception are old, out-of-print titles, that aren't sold anywhere). Otherwise, just don't bother - you'll be nothing but a hypocrite. So, buy as much as you can, and pirate whatever else you want.

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Most of the VN's are not available in English, so I don't see how downloading them in English could negatively affect the sales.

I agree with Aeeru on that point.

I think it's very disputable to say that pirating affects sales. At least for VN's.

 

This internationnal community would be non existent without pirating.

And it's thanks to that community that VN's are actually being "profesionnally" translated.

 

And it's not like downloading products that would unlikely be sold in the West would affect Japanese sales.

This only works for Vn's though:

Pirating => Community => Buisness appears and is butthurt about pirating ... wut ?

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