Down Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 More than denial, I think it's more like refusing to give some effort on creating relationships. And that comes from a lack of then during childhood and teens or from dissapointments throughout their lives. In the end, it becomes an spiral of self isolation and that's kinda bad. I'd say to then: try looking in other places. If you go to the same kind of people in the same kind of ambient you'll get the same result. The wonderful stuff about the internet is that you can find lots of different ambient and people easily but nothing is better than chatting and having a blast with people you can see, hear and feel just in front of you. For example, I'd really like to have a tea with Maefdomn and meet him personally. That would be so much better than simply reading his words. I was going to answer to your post before, but you did it in my place more or less. I admit that for most people, the reproductive instinct and/or the romantic craving still exists. The issue usually lies, as you said, in refusing to make the effort to create said relationship. And a lot of people more or less give up there, because it implies a lot of things. It's just like that phenomenon in Japan where a large part of the young population just doesn't want to get into relationships anymore. But of course that stands mainly for romantic relationship, not every of them. Other kind of interactions require less efforts, otherwise we wouldn't be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O. Van Bruce Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 If you only didn't add that "somewhat"~ I don't refrain from love and sex because of a closed mind, also it was not something i did quickly or in a whim, more like a caution to avoid even more personal drama and such. Audaces Fortuna iuuat That said, it's not like you have to throw yourself from a bridge. Just try to avoid being paralised by your fears. Incidentally, I don't need courage to talk about anything I want to with Maaefdomn so he's and exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalRen Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Yep. Any image that I like will be the same, regardless of wether it was given to me or if I found it on the internet. I've been in relationships before, but they were never any good. Even when the other person did their best for my sake, it was just annoying as hell and incredibly bothersome. I always value results over intentions- If you're going to do something nice for me, be 300% sure I'm gonna like it beforehand, otherwise you might not even bother. All of my relationships, without exception, were ended by me after a maximum amount of 3 months- I thought the person was interesting at first, but after knowing those people, I lost my interest. Also, yep, I never had an "aww" moment from seeing an old couple (or any couple at all) hold hands or do anything else. I'm not saying the way I do things is the "right" way or anything else, though- it's just what works for me. Basically what you are telling me is that relationships suck. Are you saying the relationship with your 2D character doesn't exist? You can still get into a fight with a 2D character, unless you are essentially saying you choose how they act, in which case you are not actually in love because you are choosing their personality for them to fit your needs. In other words, you are creating the character, which isn't really "human" then. Let's use Steve and Mare as an example: Steve can't tell Mare to not feel offended, otherwise he is playing the role of Mare and being her, which in that case he's just loving himself and not the actual character. Mare could get mad at him, could hurt him just like a 3D female can, so why does he get to decide how she acts? He uses the "my Mare is my Mare" card and everyone has a different Mare, but if that's the case, then she is no longer Mare is she? She's just someone Steve made-up in his fantasy that just so happens to look like Mare in his mind. There is only one Mare, much like there is one you and one me. 2D doesn't just get to "bend" the rules because you say so, that's making your argument very one sided and bias. I'm fine with you, or in this case Steve, saying that he is in love with someone that looks and very much acts like Mare, but in the end, it's not Mare. Plain and simple. And on that note, everyone here who loves 2D has had a terrible experience in 3D it seems like (or a lot of you), so to close doors because you've given up isn't the female's fault or the 3D world's fault, its your own fault. Don't beat down the 3D world and the females in it because you chose to give up on it. Again, that's bending the rules and making it bias. I'm still going to take 3d cause no matter what you do, you're going to want to have sex. It's human nature, and jacking off to 2d won't count as sex and make you lose your virginity. And about the Porn Industry thing, it's their choice, they choose that path because they don't have many other options. It also depends where you work, some places treat women better than others. Don't get me wrong i love 2D as well, but you can't get stuck in 2D forever. Agree. Actually, fapping is sufficient to satisfy sexual urges, and you can easily become uninterested in either romantic or sexual relationships. It's pretty common nowadays. Refusing any kind of interaction with real people to only focus on virtual reality is a bit different though. It's taking it way further and it's more rare, because it's not lack of interest anymore, it's denial. (I'm not making any judgment here by the way, just in case). Agree with last point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 2D is fantasy, it's another world, it has it's own rules. It's idealised too. I'm not saying it's bad at all because I wouldn't be here otherwise. I like 2D a lot, but living in 2D won't get me anywere. And I have someone I love IRL so, yeah 3D for me. (But I love you too Bruce !) Creating something that is real, is just different. I don't think 2D is an escape from 3D either. For me 2D is refreshing, it's a time out from the complexity of life. Everything is so much simpler, easier to understand. There's nothing in the real world that can create 2D BUT the opposite is also true. And unfortunately there are things here i'm not willing to leave ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Basically what you are telling me is that relationships suck. Are you saying the relationship with your 2d character doesn't exist? You can still get into a fight with a 2d character, unless you are essentially saying you choose how they act, in which case you are not actually in love because you are choosing their personality for them to fit your needs. In other words, you are creating the character, which isn't really "human" then. Let's use Steve and Mare as an example: Steve can't tell Mare to not feel offended, otherwise he is playing the role of Mare and being her, which in that case he's just loving himself and not the actual character. Mare could get mad at him, could hurt him just like a 3d female can, so why does he get to decide how she acts? He uses the "my Mare is my Mare" card and everyone has a different Mare, but if that's the case, then she is no longer Mare is she? She's just someone Steve made-up in his fantasy that just so happens to look like Mare in his mind. There is only one Mare, much like there is one you and one me. 2d doesn't just get to "bend" the rules because you say so, that's making your argument very one sided and bias. I'm fine with you, or in this case Steve, saying that he is in love with someone that looks and very much acts like Mare, but in the end, it's not Mare. Plain and simple. And on that note, everyone here who loves 2d has had a terrible experience in 3d it seems like (or a lot of you), so to close doors because you've given up isn't the female's fault or the 3d world's fault, its your own fault. Don't beat down the 3d world and the females in it because you chose to give up on it. Again, that's bending the rules and making it bias. Yep, I have no relationship with any 2d character. It doesn't actually exist to me, and it doesn't have a significance. That's why I'm not attached to any particular 2d character. Again, this is only what happens to >me<; I dislike romantic relationships and I don't have a relationship with a 2dcharacter, but that doesn't mean it has to be the same to other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FruitsPunchSamurai Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 2D is fantasy, it's another world, it has it's own rules. It's idealised too. I'm not saying it's bad at all because I wouldn't be here otherwise. I like 2D a lot, but living in 2D won't get me anywere. And I have someone I love IRL so, yeah 3D for me. (But I love you too Bruce !) Creating something that is real, is just different. I don't think 2D is an escape from 3D either. For me 2D is refreshing, it's a time out from the complexity of life. Everything is so much simpler, easier to understand. There's nothing in the real world that can create 2D BUT the opposite is also true. And unfortunately there are things here i'm not willing to leave ^^ I'm gonna have to agree with most of the points here, like i said you can't depend on 2D forever, i also have things IRL that i'm not willing to leave. If you shut yourself from everything then you are going to miss out on the good things and of course the bad things but that's just life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O. Van Bruce Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Now, to provide a twist. If you don't have children who is gonna pay the welfare state in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Now, to provide a twist. If you don't have children who is gonna pay the welfare state in the future? I'll be dead before it really affects me, so /shrug. Yukiru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukiru Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Basically what you are telling me is that relationships suck. Are you saying the relationship with your 2d character doesn't exist? You can still get into a fight with a 2d character, unless you are essentially saying you choose how they act, in which case you are not actually in love because you are choosing their personality for them to fit your needs. In other words, you are creating the character, which isn't really "human" then. Let's use Steve and Mare as an example: Steve can't tell Mare to not feel offended, otherwise he is playing the role of Mare and being her, which in that case he's just loving himself and not the actual character. Mare could get mad at him, could hurt him just like a 3d female can, so why does he get to decide how she acts? He uses the "my Mare is my Mare" card and everyone has a different Mare, but if that's the case, then she is no longer Mare is she? She's just someone Steve made-up in his fantasy that just so happens to look like Mare in his mind. There is only one Mare, much like there is one you and one me. 2d doesn't just get to "bend" the rules because you say so, that's making your argument very one sided and bias. I'm fine with you, or in this case Steve, saying that he is in love with someone that looks and very much acts like Mare, but in the end, it's not Mare. Plain and simple. And on that note, everyone here who loves 2d has had a terrible experience in 3d it seems like (or a lot of you), so to close doors because you've given up isn't the female's fault or the 3d world's fault, its your own fault. Don't beat down the 3d world and the females in it because you chose to give up on it. Again, that's bending the rules and making it bias.. Fictional characters are ideals without a body, Non-fictional characters are bodies that tend to lack or have ugly ideals(ugly in my opinion that is), i don't know about Steve nor other members that don't care about "reality" but i fall in love with those ideals with no body, just like i love many members here whose bodies i can't see nor touch. And no, i had no trauma or anything of the sort, i'll possibly get one in the future though. Audaces Fortuna iuuat That said, it's not like you have to throw yourself from a bridge. Just try to avoid being paralised by your fears. Incidentally, I don't need courage to talk about anything I want to with Maaefdomn so he's and exception. It's not like i have a fear of losing, just my nature playing its cards, Fuwanovel has caused the biggest personal drama i've ever had, and i've thought about leaving 3 or 4 times but look at me, i'm still here saying nonsense like i usually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O. Van Bruce Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 It's not like i have a fear of losing, just my nature playing its cards, Fuwanovel has caused the biggest personal drama i've ever had, and i've thought about leaving 3 or 4 times but look at me, i'm still here saying nonsense like i usually do. Oh but you do, you even recognize the fear of getting hurt again. Welp, you'll probably get over it with time. I'll be dead before it really affects me, so /shrug. The healthcare and pension systems are paid by the people working in a country. you'll get old and won't have a pension, nor medicines unless you pay for then on the private healthcare system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukiru Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Oh but you do, you even recognize the fear of getting hurt again. Welp, you'll probably get over it with time. You're misunderstanding me, but sorry i guess i won't explain myself any further for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O. Van Bruce Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 You're misunderstanding me, but sorry i guess i won't explain myself any further for now. No, please. Sorry if I ended sounding unconsiderate. my hands sometimes type faster than my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 The healthcare and pension systems are paid by the people working in a country. you'll get old and won't have a pension, nor medicines unless you pay for then on the private healthcare system. It's Brazil, we have to pay for the healthcare system anyway- using the public one is nothing short of suicide. Also, just use all the money that would go for creating the child (that's a LOT. Specially here) and use it to pay for your healthcare. Complementing, looking at data from 2001 (it got much more expensive after that) after converting it from Real (our currency) to dollars, it would take between 136472.32 to 272944.64 dollars, if you think they'll only stay with you for about 18 years, which generally doesn't happen- without counting expenses from school and such. Nowdays the value is way higher than that, even. It's enough for you to live your old life confortably, at least here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephryion Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 There are people who can't handle reality and end up committing suicide. Sometimes, the 3D world is just cruel and too much to handle. 2D works as a great temporary shelter. But running away from your problems won't solve anything. You're gonna eventually die in 3D, might as well make it a memorable one. 3D can be just as beautiful as 2D once you find the right people. Who knows, you might even find someone who's willing to spend over 500 years with you, even if its not physically possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 There are people who can't handle reality and end up committing suicide. Sometimes, the 3D world is just cruel and too much to handle. 2D works as a great temporary shelter. But running away from your problems won't solve anything. You're gonna eventually die in 3D, might as well make it a memorable one. 3D can be just as beautiful as 2D once you find the right people. Who knows, you might even find someone who's willing to spend over 500 years with you, even if its not physically possible. Hm, that's the problem. I've found plenty of people which would love to spend over 500 years with me, but are you really okay with anyone as long as they love you? I know I'm definitely not. To clarify some things, the 3d world is not cruel with me. I've got a great job, a lot of good opportunities to meet more people and no big problem whatsoever going on. There's no pressure nor challenge, and it seems like things will just keep going from good to better. There aren't any problems to begin with. I don't believe life has any meaning by itself, and I think we must give a meaning to our own lives. I decided mine was to be self bettering, both in mind and body. That's why I read a lot, keep a healthy body and exercise a lot too. About 4~6 years ago, it got to a point were everyone I knew was just pushing me down, and I couldn't keep up my routine, so I just have my social interactions by the internet now. The world- the 3d world- is incredibly beautiful. I live in my town since quite some time, and I still haven't seen all of it. Hidden places without any roads, places who aren't visited in years, it gets my heart pounding~ Wasting time to deal with other people when I have such awesome places to see and such interesting works to read is nothing short of a heresy to me. It's offtopic, but here's some pictures of parts of my town: Getting to do those things is way more important to me than talking face to face with other people. More important even than my most precious friends or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephryion Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hm, that's the problem. I've found plenty of people which would love to spend over 500 years with me, but are you really okay with anyone as long as they love you? I know I'm definitely not. To clarify some things, the 3d world is not cruel with me. I've got a great job, a lot of good opportunities to meet more people and no big problem whatsoever going on. There's no pressure nor challenge, and it seems like things will just keep going from good to better. There aren't any problems to begin with. I don't believe life has any meaning by itself, and I think we must give a meaning to our own lives. I decided mine was to be self bettering, both in mind and body. That's why I read a lot, keep a healthy body and exercise a lot too. About 4~6 years ago, it got to a point were everyone I knew was just pushing me down, and I couldn't keep up my routine, so I just have my social interactions by the internet now. The world- the 3d world- is incredibly beautiful. I live in my town since quite some time, and I still haven't seen all of it. Hidden places without any roads, places who aren't visited in years, it gets my heart pounding~ Wasting time to deal with other people when I have such awesome places to see and such interesting works to read is nothing short of a heresy to me. It's offtopic, but here's some pictures of parts of my town: Getting to do those things is way more important to me than talking face to face with other people. More important even than my most precious friends or anything else. True, we all have things we want to do, life isn't exactly simple. I'm juggling several hobbies and responsibilities daily. It just feels comforting to have someone there for you when you're down, to get you back on your feet. The early years of my life weren't exactly pretty, so I enjoy almost every moment I spend with my friends. Balancing everything is hard, but we're only human, we still have time to improve and complete our life goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 True, we all have things we want to do, life isn't exactly simple. I'm juggling several hobbies and responsibilities daily. It just feels comforting to have someone there for you when you're down, to get you back on your feet. The early years of my life weren't exactly pretty, so I enjoy almost every moment I spend with my friends. Balancing everything is hard, but we're only human, we still have time to improve and complete our life goals. Yep. Again, I just do what works for >me< and I don't think it's the "right" thing to do for other people. As long as you're having fun, all is fine. I decided to try and cut most of my social interactions to invest heavily in growing- Now this is the place I use the most to talk to other people. Sure, I'm lacking when it comes to love and relationships, but my goals and dreams more than make up for that~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O. Van Bruce Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 A period of self introspection is fine too. Wish you grow all you want to on this phase of your live Kaguya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Now, to provide a twist. If you don't have children who is gonna pay the welfare state in the future? The Government will be responsible for humanity's child producing and rearing needs in the future, thus giving their citizens more time to focus on important activities. Like shopping, tanning and watching the tele. It will be done through the extensive use of IVF and DNA modification technologies, to flush out any unwanted characteristics and disabilities. The children will be born in a lab, where they will be monitored for a year, then they'll be shipped off to organisations which will be responsible for rearing these children and instilling into them behaviours desired by the state. They will live on the state's dime, be educated by the state, controlled by the state, and will then be shipped, as an adult, to where their talents are judged to be of best use. A war will soon develop, between those born naturally and those produced by the state. Those born naturally are being increasingly shunned, as they have not been cleansed using DNA modification in the labs, or using the behavioural modification programs employed by the Government during the child rearing process. Due to this, privately born people show many defects. These include, but are not limited to, charisma, individuality, and the tendency to go out on 'benders'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flutterz Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 The Government will be responsible for humanity's child producing and rearing needs in the future, thus giving their citizens more time to focus on important activities. Like shopping, tanning and watching the tele. It will be done through the extensive use of IVF and DNA modification technologies, to flush out any unwanted characteristics and disabilities. The children will be born in a lab, where they will be monitored for a year, then they'll be shipped off to organisations which will be responsible for rearing these children and instilling into them behaviours desired by the state. They will live on the state's dime, be educated by the state, controlled by the state, and will then be shipped, as an adult, to where their talents are judged to be of best use. A war will soon develop, between those born naturally and those produced by the state. Those born naturally are being increasingly shunned, as they have not been cleansed using DNA modification in the labs, or using the behavioural modification programs employed by the Government during the child rearing process. Due to this, privately born people show many defects. These include, but are not limited to, charisma, individuality, and the tendency to go out on 'benders'. Sounds vaguely familiar... I wonder if Ren-senpai has seen that movie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xypers Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 start watching at 5.50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L45Q1_psDqk so in the end everything we experience its all inside our head, even if you think that what's inside your head is the interpretation of the true "reality" with your 5 senses, it doesn't change the fact that it is still inside your head, your whole beloved 3d is just your brain creating a reality using some stimuli. But are those even real? or is the brain making everything itself? as the video said, you simply don't know, you can just believe. So what's wrong in living inside a world you create, if you create the 3d world in the first place? because 3d is prettier? you can "feel" more things? i'd still prefer 2d over it. What if i have to create everything consciously? isn't it even better than 3D? its like becoming god. And again, what if eventually you start creating everything without even realizing? the brain is incredible and since it can create 3d, dreams etc, nothing is impossible. You will probably argue that in the end the 3d is the real limitation, if you die in 3d you're gone....how do you know it? i'm not talking about god or other stupid crap, is everything we experience is made from the brain, and the brain itself is part of the 3d world, then even our own life may be just a delusion, we are not humans, we are something else that is able to create realities. so in the end, since we are stupid and ignore everything, we can aswell enjoy what we like and live however we enjoy the most... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O. Van Bruce Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 The Government will be responsible for humanity's child producing and rearing needs in the future, thus giving their citizens more time to focus on important activities. Like shopping, tanning and watching the tele. It will be done through the extensive use of IVF and DNA modification technologies, to flush out any unwanted characteristics and disabilities. The children will be born in a lab, where they will be monitored for a year, then they'll be shipped off to organisations which will be responsible for rearing these children and instilling into them behaviours desired by the state. They will live on the state's dime, be educated by the state, controlled by the state, and will then be shipped, as an adult, to where their talents are judged to be of best use. A war will soon develop, between those born naturally and those produced by the state. Those born naturally are being increasingly shunned, as they have not been cleansed using DNA modification in the labs, or using the behavioural modification programs employed by the Government during the child rearing process. Due to this, privately born people show many defects. These include, but are not limited to, charisma, individuality, and the tendency to go out on 'benders'. What a wonderful dysstopia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O. Van Bruce Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 What a wonderful dysstopia! @Xypers, nothing new on the earth, a guy already thought about that a bit more than 200 years ago. In fact, that's the foundation of all modern science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvertMouse Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 That last option XD~ I lot of folks prefer 2D because 2D girls will never betray you, whereas real ones might break up with you when they got bored of you, etc. Of course, 2D girls can never truly interact with you. At least, not yet =3............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 so in the end everything we experience its all inside our head, even if you think that what's inside your head is the interpretation of the true "reality" with your 5 senses, it doesn't change the fact that it is still inside your head, your whole beloved 3d is just your brain creating a reality using some stimuli. But are those even real? or is the brain making everything itself? as the video said, you simply don't know, you can just believe. So what's wrong in living inside a world you create, if you create the 3d world in the first place? because 3d is prettier? you can "feel" more things? i'd still prefer 2d over it. What if i have to create everything consciously? isn't it even better than 3D? its like becoming god. And again, what if eventually you start creating everything without even realizing? the brain is incredible and since it can create 3d, dreams etc, nothing is impossible. You will probably argue that in the end the 3d is the real limitation, if you die in 3d you're gone....how do you know it? i'm not talking about god or other stupid crap, is everything we experience is made from the brain, and the brain itself is part of the 3d world, then even our own life may be just a delusion, we are not humans, we are something else that is able to create realities. so in the end, since we are stupid and ignore everything, we can aswell enjoy what we like and live however we enjoy the most... Doesn't change anything. What we call "2D" are fictional universes created by other humans and therefore embedded into reality, existing through our perceptions. Even assuming that reality is an illusion, the status of those fictional universes when compared with that is still the same. If you're talking about creating your own world in your head, it's a different thing, but that would be a rather difficult exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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