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Whoisthatguy96

Cross Channel - Which translation should I read?

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Whats the difference with Amaterasu's translation and George Henry's?

I've started on George's translation, but George's has broken english and poor grammer, but I want to read the additional content he has translated.

Does Amaterasu's version also translate the additional content and is it translated better?

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I see.... well I'll start on the Amaterasu's version then. And when I said additional content, I was wondering if George had added in extra scenes when he said,"There are three extra scenarios included, playable after completing the main story (simply start a new game afterwards)."

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@Chuee posted this on his twitter (I hope you'll not be mad, it's on your public account):

So I'm reviving this thread from the ashes of old fuwa. Anybody read both? Anybody can compare? Is GHS TL really just a  troll, or is it a genuine, but maybe a little 'over the top' translation?
From this example I would say GHS is massive improvement. The sentences made coherent sense, they're a result of preceding line, while in Ixrec every line is a thing of their own. Especially this sitting on floor part.

I want to read CC some day, so it would be nice to know which translation is superior.

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My opinion? To be honest I didn't care much about the translation here. And I think what's the most important for VN here should be the story instead of the translation here imo, although it maybe sounds unbelieveable because my English was bad here.

My suggestion here would be just try each patch here before deciding it at least for one hour here, and I think the story wouldn't be change much in either of Japanese version, Amaterasu or GHS version either. To each of their own if we talk about translation here.

Edited by littleshogun

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1 hour ago, littleshogun said:

I think the story wouldn't be change much in either of Japanese version, Amaterasu or GHS version either.

Cross Channel's a special case in that regard. From what I've heard from Japanese speakers, the prose is almost as important as the story in this game, and neither of the translations really transfer Tanaka's writing, simply because it's damn near impossible to replicate in English.

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On 2016/9/12 at 0:28 PM, Vorathiel said:

@Chuee posted this on his twitter (I hope you'll not be mad, it's on your public account):

So I'm reviving this thread from the ashes of old fuwa. Anybody read both? Anybody can compare? Is GHS TL really just a  troll, or is it a genuine, but maybe a little 'over the top' translation?
From this example I would say GHS is massive improvement. The sentences made coherent sense, they're a result of preceding line, while in Ixrec every line is a thing of their own. Especially this sitting on floor part.

I want to read CC some day, so it would be nice to know which translation is superior.

So I started reading Cross Channel Amaterasu translation and uuugh, I basically had to re-read each line at least twice and rearrange it in my head so that it made a semblance of sense, this is one of Amatersu earlier work so I understand it isn't as good as Amaterasu later works (Rewrite, Comyu) but yeah based on the example you provided George Henry Shaft is far easier to make sense of.

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15 hours ago, Decay said:

GHS needs to learn that less is more when it comes to writing. Good lord.

"The heavens were a dark curtain visible from the window, a scattering of twinkles cut off by the frame that absconds with my sight."

ffffff What even is this.

So I went ahead and from the looks of it I managed to install GHS patch properly, I'll post a translation comparison soon.

Edited by Nier

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9 hours ago, Decay said:

GHS needs to learn that less is more when it comes to writing. Good lord.

"The heavens were a dark curtain visible from the window, a scattering of twinkles cut off by the frame that absconds with my sight."

ffffff What even is this.

Heh, if you read it closely both translators muddled up their metaphors here. A curtain is used for concealment (think theatre curtains) or prettying up a frame (normal curtains,) but here they both use it as a backdrop (not a curtain.)

A common mistake is when people think they want to make writing sound grand by adding more words. That's got little to do with it. Grand writing can be lengthy or brief, rather it's the precision of language use and clarity of images presented which marks grand language. Grand language is precise, and the images conjured tend to be evocative and ... well, make sense. 

Basically GHS needs to practice writing more instead of writing 300 page essays dissecting Cross Channel:

A distant memory shrouded in the mists of time.
Though I could not remember the year or my age,
I remember a grand bedroom befitting one well born.
There were many places one could sit, the canopied bed, the European styled chair,
but I always preferred the floor.
Especially on nights like that.
Through the window, strewn on a blanket of darkness,
twinkled countless specks of light. A twinkling that ended only at the window frame.
And in the glass that separated that world from mine was the image of a young lady.
Full of grace and clothed in a western dress,
she was kept secluded from the world.

Obviously not a translator but it's not really a place to be grandiose is it? xD I mean, they're describing a room and a sky for heaven's sake xD

8 hours ago, Nier said:

How does it look like when compared to Amaterasu translation?

The bits of prose in that excerpt are some of the worst pieces of writing I've seen all year 0.0

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3 hours ago, Darklord Rooke said:

Basically GHS needs to practice writing more instead of writing 300 page essays dissecting Cross Channel

No offense, but this is such an arrogant and entitled statement, I have to call you out on it. His intend was never to make a "good" translation of Cross Channel, his only purpose was to write his essay on Cross Channel. Also translating the game was a necessary evil because he needed a quotable source and Ixrec's translation was too liberal. He needed a translation that was very close to the Japanese script, because his thesis was based on nuances not found in Amaterasu's version.

Saying he should rather practice writing and translate games instead of writing essays is extremely disrespectful to him and the work he did. Maybe I'm the only one, but I really appreciated his book. It's a very interested read and helped me to like Cross Channel (which I actually don't really like) a little more by offering some new points, ideas and theories I hadn't thought of yet. I might not agree with everything he wrote, but at least he gave us some interesting and original thoughts. That's 100% more than most people in the English VN community can offer (not you Rooke, you write usually very interesting comments) who are ironically the first when it comes to dismissing GHS' work and calling him a troll.

Which leads me to:

11 hours ago, Decay said:

GHS needs to learn that less is more when it comes to writing. Good lord.

"The heavens were a dark curtain visible from the window, a scattering of twinkles cut off by the frame that absconds with my sight."

ffffff What even is this.

What even is this? This is exactly what it wanted to be; a literal translation of the original prose. You call him out on being too wordy when that was exactly the point of it.

When he released his book (and with it his translation of Cross Channel, since the translation is an attachment to the book, not the other way around) he explicitly stated that the translation is not supposed to be a "normal" translation, not supposed to be read the first time you play the game and should only be seen as an accompanying material. A purpose it accomplishes adequately, by the way, and which would not have been possible if he translated it any other way.

I know you know that, I know that most people in this thread know that, and still, you guys deliberately choose to ignore this fact just so you can thrash his works and efforts and make him look like an illiterate. I wonder why? What is the reason for being this envious, malicious and toxic?
Has anyone of you actually read his book? What do you think of the points he made? Do you want to engage in a discussion about his thesis? ... Of course, you don't. That would take effort and actual thinking. It's much easier to make someone into a meme and criticize him for the things, he never was out do to.

In some way GHS is really a troll, but not in the way most people try to depict him. He is the kind of troll who, every time he surfaces, gets people to show their true color, while still providing interesting and thought-provoking material. Just like last month, when he released his (pretty interesting) book and translations of the talestune games, and was again misquoted and badmouthed by people who didn't even read his essay or only skimmed through it to find something they can take out of context and make fun of it. The level of shallowness, pretentiousness and lynch mob mentality in the English VN community is really astonishing.

GHS is indeed a troll, the best kind of troll. Not the kind of troll the VN community wants, but the kind it deserves.

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2 hours ago, Tyrosyn said:

No offense,

None taken :)

Translating hundreds of thousands of words so that he can quote sections here and there is probably the biggest waste of time I've heard of. If that was the reason behind his translation of Cross Channel then I have to congratulate him for inventing such a unique way of wasting years of his life. Normal people would translate the relevant sections within the essay itself instead of producing a separate few hundred thousand word "throw away" translation (which was never meant to be good) solely so he could quote a few thousand words from it xD (and even that number is too many.) That is the very definition of inefficient behaviour (so very much doing it wrong.)

So I would have to question the point on that count. Content and themes can be summarised, select quotes could have been translated within the document.

Secondly and probably more importantly, considering that some of his prose is almost impossible to decipher, I would have to wonder if the translation served any point at all. If you put forth an incompetent translation, then any conclusions or statements drawn from that translation is lost. Words have been improperly used, the style has been butchered, meaning has been lost. Because of this, as an accompanying text to any reasoned argument it's almost pointless.

Nabokov needed no translation accompaniment to Turgenev when he critiqued his work, rather he quoted and explained the relevant points within the text:
 

Quote

"Evening had come, the sun had hid behind a small aspen grove ... its shadow spread endlessly across the still fields. A peasant could be seen riding at a trot on white horse along a dark narrow path skirting that distant grove; he could be seen quite clearly, every detail of him, even the patch on his shoulder — although he was moving in the shade; the legs of his horse flickered with a kind of pleasing distinctness. The setting sun flushed the trunks of the aspen-trees with such a warm glow that they seemed the color of pine-trunks." {Fathers and Sons)

[This is] Turgenev at his very best. It is these- mellow colored little paintings — rather watercolors than the Flemish glory of Gogol's art gallery — inserted here and there into his prose, that we still admire to-day. These plums are especially numerous in A Sportsman's Sketches.

And when Nabokov did release a translation along with his commentary, it was an exemplary translation (not a throw away one,) because doing anything else would have been an affront to the author (he wanted liberal translators put in the stocks and other stuff. He was very passionate of translation quality ... the zealot.)

To me, the idea that the released translation accompaniment of Cross Channel was "never meant to be good" and "was just an aid" reeks of the excuses used by people who want to dodge criticism of their work. An excuse to sidestep judgement and criticism.

Just my 2c :P

qMty4W7.jpg

Basically, if what GHS wants to do is write essays then he should stick to writing essays. Translate and quote the relevant passages within the text itself.

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15 hours ago, Decay said:

GHS needs to learn that less is more when it comes to writing. Good lord.

"The heavens were a dark curtain visible from the window, a scattering of twinkles cut off by the frame that absconds with my sight."

ffffff What even is this.

 

9 hours ago, Narcosis said:

To be honest, for how weak it is, I still prefer the old Amaterasu translation. GHS tries way too hard with words and I prefer less. It leaves more space for imagination.

 

7 hours ago, Darklord Rooke said:

The bits of prose in that excerpt are some of the worst pieces of writing I've seen all year 0.0

So I went ahead and took upon myself to write down excerpts of both translations so that people may be able to better judge between both translations, this is both parts of the same point in the game where Taishi first talks to Miki:

Which translation do you guys think is better?

 

AMATERASU TRANSLATIONS Translation (2009):

There was a virgin stooping down in an unpopular corridor.
Taichi: "Are you all right, Ojou-san?"
I extended my hand toward her butt.
Girl: "Whoa!"
The girl displayed her formidability by standing up in an instant.
Then she shuffled away to gain distance from me.
She can switch to a state of military alertness in no time flat.
Plus, in the moment she jumped up, she had sent an attack in my direction.
Taichi: "......you're not half-bad."
Girl: "Neither is Sempai."
With one hand I stopped the mop she's thrown at my face, letting it fall silently to the floor.
Taichi: "It feels like we haven't met in a while."
Girl: "Yes, it does."
There stood the girl, like a heroine from a famous fantasy novel adapated into a movie.
But relax; that's only the way she looks.
Taichi: "Since it's been so long, I seem to have forgotten your name."
Girl: "Yaa."
Taichi: "So be at ease......"
Taichi: "Johnson."
Girl: "At least use a girl's name."
Her face told me she'd had enough of foreigners.
Taichi: "You've improved, Miki."
Miki: "Yes."
Yamanobe Miki stuck out a chest so meager as to invite tears.
Miki: "Because my butt is really high."
Taichi: "Though I did touch it a little."
Miki: "Because I let you."
She's unfazed.
Taichi: "But until I've flipped that skirt......"
Miki: "You won't flip it. (definitively)"
She's good.
Bluffs won't work on her any more.
Taichi: "Very well. This time I shall leave the flower alone."
Miki: "Ehe."
She smiled widely.
Uwaa, hug me...
Taichi: "What've you been doing? Cleaning for fun?"
Miki: "Ah, yes, there seem to be a lot of filthy spots around here."
Miki: "And I like to clean."
She was putting her fictional muscles into it.
Taichi: "You're doing this spontaneously? That's so cool!"
Taichi: "......aah, I get it, I get it, no need to tell everyone, my sweet. You want my autograph, don't you? The autograph of I, Ijuuin Taichi! You've been urging me for it through this display of school piety!"
(TL note: Taichi is most likely referring to Ijuuin Hikaru, a popular Japanese TV and radio personality.)
Miki: "......aah, aah...... so that't it."
Miki: "Haven't heard that gag in a while..."
She made a truly pained face.
In fact she seems like she's about to cry.
In fact she seems like she's about to cry.
I thought that two times over.
Now don't panic; deal with this calmly.
As an elite young adult candidate who's tasted both the sweets and sours of life!
Taichi: "WhWhWhWhWhWhat's wrong, Yamanobe-kun!? If you don't want me to, then I won't think of filling in that blank space on the paper! I' stating this honestly!"
My voice was shaking.
Taichi: "Oh no, she's crying, awawa."
I wiped the corners of her eyes.
she was about to make me cry too.
Miki: "Ah, no, it's nothing, yeah."
Miki: "Just a bit of youthful fluid leaking from my tear ducts......"
Taichi: "What......?"
Youthful fluid?
Taichi: "Don't scare me."
I wiped away my cold sweat.
Taichi: "Then this time I shall postpone the prince's (my) autograph signing."
Miki: "No!"
A scream that could make her throat hoarse.
Miki: "I need it! Please do it!"
Taichi: "Y-You want it that badly?"
I shrunk back.
Miki: "Please do it, please do it."
She repeated 『Please do it』 with a shrill voice.
My lower abdomen was getting hot.
Why is that?
Why is it doing that?
My corpus cavernosum is always ignoring my will and running wild on its own---
Even if I focused my thoughts on fairy tales, the beastliness wouldn't disappear.
Taichi: "F, fine, I'll do it."
Miki: "Here you go."
Miki fumbled around on her vertical chest, then took out her Matebook.
That's what they call the notebook which also doubles as the school's identification card.
Indeed.
It seems you do not know of the existence of this school's historic 『Matebook』; the #1 popular high-class public bathhouse available behind the train station of this 『City』.
(TL note: Taichi is most likely alluding to the ancient Roman public bathhouses, which were then a major part of daily social intercourse. He also seems to be creatively specifying the half of the city he lives in.)
You're given the notebook when you become a member of this society, and you receive a princess stamp each time you make use of it.
Based on the stamps you collect, they may decide to let you moderately enjoy prizes such as 'W' and 'Triple.'
......the Triple.
What kind of word is that?
Is that Shangri-la
Is the sun yellow?
An erection has come......
Crap.
If I shift to a forward-leaning position, Miki's going to catch on.
Miki's a virgin, but she's well versed in male biology.
Because I taught her.
She'll notice whether I lean forward or not, but if I remain dignified, I can at least save face.
Miki: "......"
Ah, she glanced.
Miki's face is fairly red now.
She says nothing.
She looked out of the window with a slight shyness.
Uwa, that just makes it more embarrassing. Say something.
Please use your words to toy with me.
The insolent yet shameful god of destruction was suppressed.
Perhaps because he has no firsthand experience, he's weak when faced honestly.
Direhara is prohibited.
*Direhara = Taichian for direct sexual harassment. Mostly immature indecency such as exposing genitalia and making a female touch them. Topknot, detonation switch, single-hook fishing, etc. Depending on the situation they may be seen as perverted conduct.
Or I should say, all of those are perfectly inexcusable acts of perversion.
Taichi: "You've nearly used up your notebook, Miki. It's falling apart."
Miki: "Falling apart."
Miki meaninglessly repeated my word as a form of agreement.
As I flipped through the pages, I found my very large signatures already scribbled in the margins.

 

GEORGE HENRY SHAFT Translation (2013):

A maiden was crouching in a corridor devoid of human presence.
Taichi: "Is everything well, oujou-san?"
I extended my hand towards her behind.
Girl: "Woh'tt'ooo!"
In a display of explosive force, the girl stood straight up, and gained distance with a suri-ashi.
She's quick to transition into combat readiness.
And, simultaneously with her springing up, she inflicted an attack on me.
Taichi: "...nice one there, very nice."
Girl: "Same to you, Senpai."
The rag that she threw towards my face fell from the one hand I had caught it with to the floor, in silence.
Taichi: "Been a while, hasn't it. 9, no, almost 10 hours now?"
Girl: "It has."
This girl so like the heroine of that famous fantasy novel adapted to the big screen stands up.
Be at ease. That's just her looks.
Taichi: "Would it be strange if I said that we haven't met in a long enough while that I forgot your name and the like?"
Girl: "Naaah."
Taichi: "Ah, but be at ease..."
Taichi: "Johnson."
Girl: "At least use a girl's name."
A face one could say had had enough of being thought foreign.
Taichi: "You've improved your skills, Miki."
Miki: "Yep."
Yamanobe Miki stuck out a chest so unplentiful it invites tears.
Miki: "Because my behind is valuable."
Taichi: "Although I managed just to graze it."
Miki: "Fanservice."
Unperturbed.
Taichi: "But until I flip that skirt..."
Miki: "You shan't flip. (Decisevely)"
Not bad.
Bluffs are no longer effective, then?
Taichi: "But it's fine. For this once, I'll let you carry the flowers so that you can take credit for this."
Miki: "Eheh!"
She smiled brightly.
Waaah, hug meee!
Taichi: "Watcha doing? Playing cleaning lady?"
Miki: "Ah, yes, things are a bit dirty lately."
Miki: "Me, ah' like 'em clean."
She flexes an Imaginary bicep.
Taichi: "All of your own initiative, that is very cool yes!"
Taichi: "...ahhh, I get it, I get it, say nothing further my sweet! There's no way, it's about my autograph, right? You desire the autograph of this Ijuin Taichi here. You've merely engaged in the good manners typical of our chosen career path and made a demand in ways roundabout."
Miki: "...ahh, yeah... that one, yes."
Miki: "Really been a long while there."
She makes a face that looks pained.
Or should I say, isn't she as if about to cry?
I even thought that twice dammit.
Getting flustered is a no go, cope with this with composure.
Like an elite cadet of yound adulthood who is experienced in the ways of the world, having tasted both its bitter and its sweet!
Taichi: "Wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-what is wrong, Yamanobe-kun?! If that is so disagreeable, than I shall not even think to wast that blank space! I proclaim this with honesty, see?!"
My voice just shakes.
Taichi: "Ohhh, she's crying, ahWahWah!"
She wipes the corners of her eyes,
which carries me to tearfulness as well.
Miki: "Ah, no, it's nothing, SAH!"
Miki: "It's just that my lachrymal glands leaked some adolescent juice..."
Taichi: "Whoa..."
Adolescent juice then.
Taichi: "Don't scare me then."
I wiped off cold sweat.
Taichi: "Well then, this time the Autograph of the Prince (me) is postponed."
Miki: "NO!"
A shriek as if her throat was hoarse.
Miki: "I need you in this! Do this please!"
Taichi: "Y, you want this done to you that badly?"
Faltering from my direction.
Miki: "Do this please! Do this please!"
I'm repeatedly called to "do this please" with a shrill voice.
The lower abdomen grew hotter.
But why, really?
For what reason, even?
Why must the erectile tissue of this innocent young boy ignore my volition and just rage---
I may have thought this in the tone of a fairy-tale, but the graphicness didn't go away.
Taichi: "I-, I got that, well then 'that' I'll do."
Miki: "Here!"
Miki groped about her perpendicular chest, then produced her MateBook.
So it is called at this school, this ID booklet with a second role.
Yes.
No dignitary of this school would be unaware of the existence of MateBook, the high-class bathhouse #1 in popularity located in the popular spot behind the main City's train station.
A notebook is given on gaining membership, and for every use a Princess Stamp is received.
The accumulation of stamps is the measure of how cheaply once can enjoy services such as the Double or the Triple.
...what's even a triple now.
What kind of world would be that?
Would it be Shangri-la?
And is the sun yellow?
I have erected...
This is bad!
If I take a gentle forwards Shift here, Miki will notice.
Miki might be a literal maiden, but she is acquainted with male physiology,
because I explained it to her.
Even if I don't lean I'll likely be spotted, but if I stay confident, I should at least look cool.
Miki: "..."
Ah, she glimpsed right then.
Miki's face goes fairly red.
She says nothing.
She turns her gaze towards the outside via the window, and fidgets slightly.
Wah, this is even more embarrassing! Say something!
Please make sport of me with words instead!
But the embarrasment is so great that this savage god of destruction grows subdued.
As a consequece of a lack of combat experience, perhaps, direct confrontation is a weakness.
Directassment prohibited.
* Directassment = Taichian for the Direct Performance of Sex-related Harassment. Mainly, infantile acts of obscenity such as exposing one's genitalia and making a person of the opposite gender touch it. Imitation chonmage, self-destruct button, fishing with a pole, et cetera. Depending on the situation, these could end up being considered molestation.
Or should I say that they all are flawlessly unquestionably molestation.
Taichi: "You've been using this notebook thoroughly, Miki. It's all worn!"
Miki: "All worn."
Miki assents by meaninglessly repeating my words.
Flipping the pages, I see annotation fields filled with my large-sized signature.

Edited by Nier

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