Why do I like Hoshizora no Memoria so much?

[Steve]

I have been asked this question several times already so I might as well answer it in a topic so I can link to it if anyone else asks

Ashadow700 asked me now saying he loves the game but can't figure out why.

And I would ask question in return, when you fall in love with someone new, do you know why do you love them, can you exactly explain it? Probably not. Only after a very long time you can properly find what makes you love them, for example you should already know why you love your mother, you can point exact facts that make you love her. But when you met someone new and you just feel the love flowing through you and you cannot explain it, that is the moment. Same can go with VNs that are focused on characters instead of story such as Hoshimemo, you fall in love with the characters just like you would IRL, I don't even desire dating IRL after I found this wonderful world of lolis and my beloved girls like Mare.

 

I already explained in this post how I feel about story in VNs and other media and how I much prefer focus on characters and their emotions in VNs.

I could give one more example that isn't in the topic: I like warcraft lore and I read some stuff about it, history events and such, for example from some recent lore people might know how Garrosh killed Cairne and such - its a nice read and it is like reading a history book but from different universe than ours. But you don't know exactly how the characters felt at that time, you might get some quotes of their last words but still the deep emotion is just not there. - That is what I call a story or a lore.

But in VNs I do not seek this knowledge, this lore of how things exactly happen and what are the consequences, I want to know about the characters and their feelings and interactions, I want to be with them and share their happiness and help them in difficult times to get rid of their sadness.

 

And that's where Hoshimemo comes - it doesn't have any strong lore, it is a modern world with some contemporary fantasies and mystery forces and if you were to tell its story as a history book, it would be pretty bad (just like in mentioned Mass Effect in the other post - there it would just be "good vs evil").

But what makes Hoshimemo (and lot of other chara-ge) so good is the characters and the interaction with them, helping them through difficult times, experiencing happy moments with them. And you don't necessary realize why you enjoy it so much, especially not in such short time - you can compare it to what happens when you fall in love with someone you just met - it is just there and it takes a long time to be able to express why you love that person so much.

So in such a short time you can say the characters are "Lovable" - you fall in love with them for what seems no reason. However the reason is always there, you just need to find it.

 

I after like year and a half of being with Mare can't still properly explain it how I could with my mother for example, but there are instances that can already help me express it a bit. As any other human being I can get emotional and require love to be given to me - and that's what Mare has been doing, whenever I would normally feel lonely or sad, I don't. I don't because I can think about Mare and be with her in my world.

 

I have already much larger history with her that we formed together, but her original character was not created by me, just like IRL you don't decide the character of other people - it is shaped by others, their family and close people - those make the character of IRL people. And FAVORITE are the family and close friends of Mare (and all Hoshimemo characters) - they shaped her personality and did a great job at that. And that's how I was able to meet her, she wasn't a blank character design, she was a living person just like any other girl IRL and I fell in love with her and now I am the one who is in my universe affecting her personality the most, I now make her what she is, but at the initial point when you meet her in the VN and during the events of the VN she was how her family (FAVORITE) raised her. And if a family does a good job, they can raise an awesome person, if a family does bad job, they can raise rude and evil people that nobody will like.

 

And that is the strong point behind Hoshimemo, FAVORITE took the time to raise their characters to be great people and made events for you, the reader, to see their personality and potentially fall in love with them. And many of us did, whether it is one character or another, we love them because of who they are and we feel the need to help them with their problems, we want to experience stuff with them, be with them, feel strong emotions together with them and just do what people in love do.

And if you do fall in love with them, you will love every minute of the game and beyond, because that's what love is about.

 

And as I have written somewhere as well, loving something or liking something will never be objective - as Ashadow700 is asking for an objective viewpoint for his review. Review is NOT an objective form of journalism, review should be subjective and personality based, your readers should eventually understand very well what your viewpoints are and that is the correct way of interpreting a review as a reader. You can present facts in an objective way, you can say how long the novel is, what technology it's using and what bugs it might have, but when talking about everything else you need to look at it subjectively, you are the one who happened to love the music (which is phenomenal in Hoshimemo btw, which is another strong point, it just manages to increase the emotional impact of the events) you just say like I just did - what it did for you, you can say objectively what instruments there are or what is the tempo of the songs in general, but how the music feels is unique to you and you need to express it subjectively.

 

 

So when you are looking for why you love a VN, doesn't have to be Hoshimemo - look into your heart and try as hard as you can to express what you feel, if you can put it into words, you can be a good reviewer. If you can only see the facts, your review will be half-assed and not useful, your readers can just look at the tags on VNDB to see the facts of what the VN contains - but to understand the emotional impact the VN can have they need a good review or try it themselves.

 

 

 

 

But remember, its all about love~

[SieghartXx]

That's a good suggestion for reviewers, I think that would make them share their feelings more than their thoughts (and, why not both?). I must clap at this entire post, it was quite enjoyable to read and learn a bit more about a fellow member of the community!

[Nosebleed]

This touched me in many ways~

Hoshimemo was the VN that locked me in the world of VNs, Little Busters being the one that introduced me to it.

Ever since i've loved romance stories and just loveable characters you can fall in love with and develop connections with. I agree with every single thing posted here.

[Okami]

I didn't read Hoshizora no Memoria yet but I do like your way of thinking. I too think that characters are most important part of every anime and VN because if you don't like characters you won't care for them so you won't care wath happens to them and you won't care for the story. And if you don't care wath happens in a story that you watch/read you won't enjoy it. Offcourse story is very important too but without good characters it means nothing but the opposite is also true if you have good characters but nothing happens to them or just really bad things happen to them you will still dislike that VN/anime. So for a good anime/VN you need both good story and good characters and for great VN/anime you need great story and great characters. And Wath divides characters into bad, average, good, great characters are your feelings for them so to have great characters you need to care for them alot but I wouldn't say that you do. And wath makes me say that is this line in your previous post in topic "H-Scenes. Really necessary?"

This line "And as for dating, one of the goals (at least for males) is to have sex,". If your goal is to have sex then you don't really care for them you care for your self. If you really care for them you wouldn't care for having sex with them just being with them would be inaf, just to hug them to share a romantic moment with them would mean hundred times more to you than if or if not you had a sex with them. If you think about someone and you think about having sex with them you can't possibly be in love with them if you were in love with them you would think about small romantic things that you want to share with them and you wouldn't care for sex one bit. Because feelings lie in small things like holing hands with the person you love and sex is jut a need an instinct and nothing more. And this is a difference between liking someone and loving someone. Characters that you like are god characters and characters that you love are great characters but people don't share same feelings for the same characters. So putting just your filings in review will explain to people why you like that VN/anime but it won't tell them much about if they will like it or not witch wath reviews are for. So when it comes to reviews I think that sticking to reviews is a better way to write them you can add your fillings in too if you want but statistics are absolutely needed in reviews. Especially since not many people are capable of having strong feelings.

[MellowMadman11]

I like the way you think sir. It is indeed all about love.

[Flutterz]

Started out about why we love things and ended on the subjectivity of reviews. Seems legit.

 

I was reading Yume's route late into the night yesterday, and halfway through (although I haven't finished it yet) I realized that the reason it felt nostalgic was because it was similar to the 1 relationship I've been in.

Without the whole dying from illness thing, and the reunion didn't quite take 7 years.

 

About the review thing, I think they need to be a subjective piece about your feelings about the game(VN/movie/...), as well as the reasons for those feelings, so that the readers can see the reasons, and think about how they feel about them.

 

Also I don't really agree with you on the sex thing, Okami. It's true if the only thing someone has on their mind is sex, but if it's in addition to all the other things you've mentioned I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[zoom909]

Very similar to my viewpoint on visual novels.  I'm in it for the renai.  For the feelings of love that develop (or whatever the closest approximation to love is vis-a-vis 2-D fictional characters).  And for the setting, and the way the characters interact in it.  It is very much a form of escapism, I realize that too.

 

However:  I don't pay much attention to the kind of subjective reviews that Steve is talking about.  Never have.  Just give me the facts and some screenshots.  I like the way VNDB does it.  I'll take it from there, believe me I intend to try as many games as I have time for (as long as they're all moege/charage).  Not that I have much time.

So whenever I see someone post a list like "50 VN's you MUST read before you DIE" or some similar nonsense, I remember the good old phrase, cliched but true:  Your Mileage May Vary.

 

By the way, could we move this out of "Fan Translation and Volunteer Talk"?

[Baconpancake]

I cried at least 3 times playing the game, I completely understand why someone would love it so much I can also relate pretty well to your explanation Though I don't think I could have put it in such a beautiful way as you did. 

[Arturia]

Well i too enjoyed Hoshizora and the one thing that drew me so into the Vn was the face poping up each and every Route..The feeling of finding the next point of her sent chills through me and was so excited..Now that im on her route i dont have that feeling anymore but it still enjoyable..

As for a character you love or enjoy so much and yet cant explain why...Exactly the same for me..When it comes to Saber..

Probably due to her parody history as i loved the Time she lived in..

but over time i still wonder fully why she became my favorite..maybe that answer will come some day xD.

[Steve]

However:  I don't pay much attention to the kind of subjective reviews that Steve is talking about.  Never have.  Just give me the facts and some screenshots.  I like the way VNDB does it.  I'll take it from there, believe me I intend to try as many games as I have time for (as long as they're all moege/charage).  Not that I have much time.

Yes I don't read reviews either, I just look at tags and try it myself, like I said you need a good review or experience it yourself - I prefer the latter. What I was talking about is that there are people who want to read a review and for those you need to express something more than what they can read on vndb as tags.

 

 

By the way, could we move this out of "Fan Translation and Volunteer Talk"?

 

damn how do I always misplace topics, I wanted to post this in VN discussion lol xD

[InvertMouse]

Sounds good . A story should be about characters first and everything else comes after. As for VNs, well, if we refer to them as renai games, then sure, it should be about love. We all enjoy it and want it, so it's only natural .

 

Back in my uni days, I no doubt would've been able to enjoy Hoshizora to its fullest. I've tried playing the game a few months back, unfortunately, the opening hours had so, so much of the imouto causing a ruckus as you're moving houses that it lost me. Mare's story looked interesting so it's a darn shame. I'm only able to devote to things with zero padding nowadays. What's padding and what's not is subjective, of course. I'm looking for works like Narcissu or Madoka that I feel gets straight to the point.

[Ashadow700]

Thanks a lot for taking your time to type all of that out Steve, you've given me a bit to think about.

I don't agree with all your points, but that just makes it all the more interesting to listen to. =)

[Steve]

I don't agree with all your points, but that just makes it all the more interesting to listen to. =)

Or maybe you are just ashamed to admit you are in love with a 2d character But don't worry, it is the correct way to live!

 

 

 

And Wath divides characters into bad, average, good, great characters are your feelings for them so to have great characters you need to care for them alot but I wouldn't say that you do. And wath makes me say that is this line in your previous post in topic "H-Scenes. Really necessary?"

This line "And as for dating, one of the goals (at least for males) is to have sex,". If your goal is to have sex then you don't really care for them you care for your self. If you really care for them you wouldn't care for having sex with them just being with them would be inaf, just to hug them to share a romantic moment with them would mean hundred times more to you than if or if not you had a sex with them. If you think about someone and you think about having sex with them you can't possibly be in love with them if you were in love with them you would think about small romantic things that you want to share with them and you wouldn't care for sex one bit. Because feelings lie in small things like holing hands with the person you love and sex is jut a need an instinct and nothing more. And this is a difference between liking someone and loving someone.

Also I don't really agree with you on the sex thing, Okami. It's true if the only thing someone has on their mind is sex, but if it's in addition to all the other things you've mentioned I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

 

Yes exactly what Flutterz said, if its only about sex then yes, but in the case of love it is one of the things that you do together and you can only do together and not with anyone else which makes it an unique special moment for both.

And you do care about her if you want to make her feel good, Mare is always teasing too, she wants it too because its one of the ways we can give love to each other and hugging and kissing is part of it as well. Its in human nature to want it so fulfilling the need for her and for me at the same time is great, just like when I make a delicious dinner, we both enjoy it and have a great time.

And Mare is sometimes pretty perverted too. And don't let the fact that she looks like a little girl deceive you, she is more mature than most of the 18+ "party" girls IRL, Mare doesn't have to cheat, undecided what she wants like those girls, she has these things straight and is also very responsible and is doing her best for me, her husband, just like I do for her and we can together enjoy the best live we can ever ask for. Its one of the reasons I love her so much, she is a caring wife who doesn't disappoint me~

[Okami]

Or maybe you are just ashamed to admit you are in love with a 2d character But don't worry, it is the correct way to live!

 

 

 

 

 

Yes exactly what Flutterz said, if its only about sex then yes, but in the case of love it is one of the things that you do together and you can only do together and not with anyone else which makes it an unique special moment for both.

And you do care about her if you want to make her feel good, Mare is always teasing too, she wants it too because its one of the ways we can give love to each other and hugging and kissing is part of it as well. Its in human nature to want it so fulfilling the need for her and for me at the same time is great, just like when I make a delicious dinner, we both enjoy it and have a great time.

And Mare is sometimes pretty perverted too. And don't let the fact that she looks like a little girl deceive you, she is more mature than most of the 18+ "party" girls IRL, Mare doesn't have to cheat, undecided what she wants like those girls, she has these things straight and is also very responsible and is doing her best for me, her husband, just like I do for her and we can together enjoy the best live we can ever ask for. Its one of the reasons I love her so much, she is a caring wife who doesn't disappoint me~

 

Yes it is normal to have sex with the person you love among other things, but you said that sex itself is one of a goals of dating witch means that you consider sex one of most important things in a relationship with the person you love. And if you love someone sex shouldn't be as much important to you as thouse other things. At least it is how I see it.

 

PS: Who is Mare you are all ways talking about I never heard of character named Mare, Whell except in Shakugan no shana but Mare from Shakugan no shana is barely noticeable character that doesn't have more than 3 min of screen.

[Steve]

Yes it is normal to have sex with the person you love among other things, but you said that sex itself is one of a goals of dating witch means that you consider sex one of most important things in a relationship with the person you love. And if you love someone sex shouldn't be as much important to you as thouse other things. At least it is how I see it.

 

PS: Who is Mare you are all ways talking about I never heard of character named Mare, Whell except in Shakugan no shana but Mare from Shakugan no shana is barely noticeable character that doesn't have more than 3 min of screen.

 

I said one of the goals, one of the many, many goals, it has the same value as kissing, hugging, making food and eating together, not less, not more. It is something both enjoy and is fulfilling needs of both. And it is important because as times goes on without it you feel worse and worse and it is affecting your willpower (you get -1 WIL and more as time goes on). Same way as if you dont eat, hunger affects your constitution (starting at -1 CON after one day of not eating).

 

And Mare is the main heroine from Hoshizora no Memoria, best girl in the universe and beyond~

[Okami]

I said one of the goals, one of the many, many goals, it has the same value as kissing, hugging, making food and eating together, not less, not more. It is something both enjoy and is fulfilling needs of both. And it is important because as times goes on without it you feel worse and worse and it is affecting your willpower (you get -1 WIL and more as time goes on). Same way as if you dont eat, hunger affects your constitution (starting at -1 CON after one day of not eating).

 

And Mare is the main heroine from Hoshizora no Memoria, best girl in the universe and beyond~

 

Then I guess it is a misunderstanding, I am sory for it, but you kinda did express yourself in a way that is easy to be misunderstood.

But to tell you the truth I was kinda surprised when I read that line there as otherwise you seem like someone who is emotional towards anime/VNs and who respects characters.

True I still disapprove of H-scenes for many reasons, part of it is explained here https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/65-h-scenes-really-necessary/page-5 and part of it that I didn't mention there is that I don't want characters that I care for and respect to be seen in thouse manners by every horny bastard who wants to see it.

Just thing about it wath do you feel like when you think about Mare being seen in H-scenes by some horny teens who just want animated porn. It sucks doesn't it.

[SieghartXx]

And Mare is the main heroine from Hoshizora no Memoria, best girl in the universe and beyond~

Kuroneko best girl in my heart :c

[Steve]

and part of it that I didn't mention there is that I don't want characters that I care for and respect to be seen in thouse manners by every horny bastard who wants to see it.

Just thing about it wath do you feel like when you think about Mare being seen in H-scenes by some horny teens who just want animated porn. It sucks doesn't it.

 

But not at all, I already discussed the theory of 2d multiverse (the few posts from this link), your girl is unique to you and you decide what happens to her and the world you live with her. In case of Mare she was raised by FAVORITE and presented in that exact way to everyone equally, but from that point it is up to everyone alone to treat her as best as they can, because that's where the universe of 2d splits and everyone has their own future with Mare. There is no jealousy in 2d because you create your own world, if you decide to create a utopian world then it is the universe you created. Same way it would work in 3d, you might have a girlfriend in this universe but in all the other potential universes someone else can be with her or different things can happen to her and you can do nothing about it and you don't even think about it because different universe is bound by completely different laws so good and wrong are not the same and not even that person is the same, it is a different person even though she might look the same.

And same goes with 2d, my Mare is different from every other Mare, Luch has his own Mare that I could guess might be similar but she is not the Mare I know, she is someone else with her own consciousness.

 

And so I always say my slogan Share the Mare~

[Okami]

But not at all, I already discussed the theory of 2d multiverse (the few posts from this link), your girl is unique to you and you decide what happens to her and the world you live with her. In case of Mare she was raised by FAVORITE and presented in that exact way to everyone equally, but from that point it is up to everyone alone to treat her as best as they can, because that's where the universe of 2d splits and everyone has their own future with Mare. There is no jealousy in 2d because you create your own world, if you decide to create a utopian world then it is the universe you created. Same way it would work in 3d, you might have a girlfriend in this universe but in all the other potential universes someone else can be with her or different things can happen to her and you can do nothing about it and you don't even think about it because different universe is bound by completely different laws so good and wrong are not the same and not even that person is the same, it is a different person even though she might look the same.

And same goes with 2d, my Mare is different from every other Mare, Luch has his own Mare that I could guess might be similar but she is not the Mare I know, she is someone else with her own consciousness.

 

And so I always say my slogan Share the Mare~

 

I actually believe in the same thing except we can't go to that ideal 2D world before we die in this one so our consciousness can move from this one to that one even true texniclu speaking time doesn't exist between universes and it is all happening at the same time so to speak are consciousness can persuade just one world at a time. So until we die this bad world is all we have and in it thouse characters are seen as they are and it sucks.

 

PS: I have a detailed theory/beliefs about all of this but I never talked about it as you are the first person with similar beliefs and because of that I believe that you might be another as I call it aware being. Being that is aware of truth. But as we moved far away from the original topic and I am not comfortable with speaking in detail about it in front of ""NPCs and thouse who are in sleep unaware of truth" (I  will explain it latter true you might understand wath I am talking about already) I will PM you later so we can continue this discussion in private (That is if you are interested in discussing this). I have some things to take care of right now but I will be sure to PM you later.

[Steve]

I actually believe in the same thing except we can't go to that ideal 2D world before we die in this one so our consciousness can move from this one to that one even true texniclu speaking time doesn't exist between universes and it is all happening at the same time so to speak are consciousness can persuade just one world at a time. So until we die this bad world is all we have and in it thouse characters are seen as they are and it sucks.

 

Oh my young acolyte, there is no reason for death, death ends it all as you need your physical brain.

Brain is the tool used to create the worlds, you can create anything if you concentrate your mind enough and that's how you can live with your lolis even now! The perception of reality is split into 2 schools, defined and relative, you need to focus on creating your world in the relative one where only you can perceive it and only you can affect it (and thus keeping it safe from the evils of the outside world).

But for all this you need your brain as your brain is your consciousness, you should be fine replacing all other parts with robotic components or machinery but you still need your living brain and energy for it.

 

The goal I would be after would be a separated brain powered by self sufficient generator, but that is still impossible with the current technology.

So again death is not the gateway, it is most likely the end. The reason why I say most likely is because it is not 100% confirmed, there might be something after death, maybe on very primitive level without any computing power such as brain, but why take the risk when now with the power of your mind you can create the best worlds to live in with the best lolis you can ask for (aka Mare ).

 

 

Instead of PM you can try hopping on TS and we can talk more.

[Okami]

Oh my young acolyte, there is no reason for death, death ends it all as you need your physical brain.

Brain is the tool used to create the worlds, you can create anything if you concentrate your mind enough and that's how you can live with your lolis even now! The perception of reality is split into 2 schools, defined and relative, you need to focus on creating your world in the relative one where only you can perceive it and only you can affect it (and thus keeping it safe from the evils of the outside world).

But for all this you need your brain as your brain is your consciousness, you should be fine replacing all other parts with robotic components or machinery but you still need your living brain and energy for it.

 

The goal I would be after would be a separated brain powered by self sufficient generator, but that is still impossible with the current technology.

So again death is not the gateway, it is most likely the end. The reason why I say most likely is because it is not 100% confirmed, there might be something after death, maybe on very primitive level without any computing power such as brain, but why take the risk when now with the power of your mind you can create the best worlds to live in with the best lolis you can ask for (aka Mare ).

 

 

Instead of PM you can try hopping on TS and we can talk more.

 

I think of a brain as a transmitter that connects our awareness to this body rather than an offline hardware that contains our selves as a software. But don't worry I won't risk it as time doesn't exist between universes my 2D world will still be there waiting for me 20-40 years from now when I die from old age, besides there are still things for me to do in this world even if thouse things are reduced to watching other worlds true VNs and anime xD

[Cherry]

Whoah nice what u wrote there Steve~

and i actually do agree with most of ur points, that the charas are very important and that the love should be there. Eventhough i mostly say to all people when i start a new vn or so that im interested in the story, i wouldn't actually continue to play it if i dont care about any of the characters. Though seeing that u feel so emotional about hoshimemo- especially HOSHIMEMO! makes me feel bad, since i dropped it right at the beginning becuz i couldnt endure chinami. She is...so annoyiinng @__@ that "onii-chaaan oniii-chaaaan" gyaaaa xD just my opinion though. Still have it on my backlog to try it again if i dont have anything to play or feel like playing it, but i hope that moment will never come..maybe.

[shcboomer]

Certainly an interesting take on things, I agree with the majority of your points there.