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I've had a many fears and troubles publishing my first VN. And so, I want to answer people's questions and talk about the process.


ThePenSword

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Hello everybody, my name is Jacob.

I'm the head writer and programmer of the OELVN Siren's Call. It took about four years, but we recently completed the project. I'm pretty new to fuwanovel, but can see there's a lot of creatives floating around here that are either trying to make their own VN or are at least interested in the process of what it takes to make one. Because it's such a daunting process (at least for me it was), I want to do what I can to answer any nagging fears or inquires the community has about what it takes to really get to the point where you can finish making one of these things. Lately, I feel like my experiences have just kind of been rotting inside my own head, so I want to use what I've learned for something other than just working on my second project.

If you're making a VN and feel lost/confused about what to do next, how to stay motivated, or even if you wanna know more about what the process is like, then let's talk about it! Be it programming, asset creation, marketing, story-boarding, expectations,...let's get a conversation going about what it's really like to make one of these!

Edited by ThePenSword
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About how many people did it take to effectively get work done? I am interested in doing these as a side project, nothing on this level but I'm still curious on the extant of the crew needed.

Also how was the managing done? I'm very interested in mainly how you got people to do their task while staying organized. Did you use things like writing programs? Or traditional management tools?

Thanks in advance!!!

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15 hours ago, I-heart-rena said:

About how many people did it take to effectively get work done? I am interested in doing these as a side project, nothing on this level but I'm still curious on the extant of the crew needed.

Also how was the managing done? I'm very interested in mainly how you got people to do their task while staying organized. Did you use things like writing programs? Or traditional management tools?

Thanks in advance!!!

It took a lot of people. My best friend and I did most of the writing, my wife did the graphic design and UI, we had two freelancers do the music along with two of my friends, four different artists, and about eight playtesters in the alpha stages. So all and all, around 19 people working on and off and providing feedback, Granted, it just started out with the three of us (Cory [my friend], myself, and Hannah [my wife]). And you can keep the team that small if the three of you are wearing enough hats, but that can be stressful, especially if it's the first project. My advice is that if you've got a small team, keep the scale as small as possible for you to still be satisfied with it narratively.

Managing was easily the weakest part of my skill set, besides marketing. I'm not a very assertive person, so instructing people to meet deadlines when they didn't really have skin in the game so to speak was a big challenge. This was mostly avoided due to everybody being close friends with the exception of some of the freelancers, but we really REALLY needed a dedicated manager because I simply didn't have the personality for it. We used Fiverr a lot, which sets deadlines for the freelancers to get assets done and that took away a lot of the pain, but there were times when we didn't use Fiverr where assets were weeks, even months late. At one point, it almost completely killed the project. So while I can't really give any insight on how management was done (cause it was done poorly), I can say you do need an OFFICIAL manager if you lack the temperament for it yourself. 

Edited by ThePenSword
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Hey, first of all congratulations on getting Siren's Call out. I haven't read it yet, but it looks quite interesting and I can tell a lot of heart went into it.

You mentioned that marketing along with management were you're weakest skills. I can't comment on my management skills since my own VN (link in my sig) was small scale and aside from the editing, which was done by a long time acquaintance on this forum, the only other person I worked with was someone I'm very close to irl. But I definitely know that I also suck at marketing. Would you mind talking about that a bit? What have you learned about marketing, and what were the difficulties for you?

Personally marketing makes me feel like a prostitute. Instead of letting people discover my work organically, I'm suppose to shill it and implicitly promise people that they'll love it. Like handing out fliers, we all know that 99% will end up stepped on and in the gutter. Something about putting my work in that situation seems like it's cheapening it. Also, I heard that social media is a big part of marketing, does your experience agree with that assessment? 

I'm toiling away at a much larger scale VN project now, so I appreciate you sharing your perspectives!

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4 minutes ago, Zalor said:

Hey, first of all congratulations on getting Siren's Call out. I haven't read it yet, but it looks quite interesting and I can tell a lot of heart went into it.

You mentioned that marketing along with management were you're weakest skills. I can't comment on my management skills since my own VN (link in my sig) was small scale and aside from the editing, which was done by a long time acquaintance on this forum, the only other person I worked with was someone I'm very close to irl. But I definitely know that I also suck at marketing. Would you mind talking about that a bit? What have you learned about marketing, and what were the difficulties for you?

Personally marketing makes me feel like a prostitute. Instead of letting people discover my work organically, I'm suppose to shill it and implicitly promise people that they'll love it. Like handing out fliers, we all know that 99% will end up stepped on and in the gutter. Something about putting my work in that situation seems like it's cheapening it. Also, I heard that social media is a big part of marketing, does your experience agree with that assessment? 

I'm toiling away at a much larger scale VN project now, so I appreciate you sharing your perspectives!

This is a very odd reasoning. There is no fair discoverability on the internet since everyone markets, so if you don't do it you are just throwing competitive energy away. Marketing is the A&O in the modern age, even more important than the quality of the content, because people don't engage with what doesn't entice them. That is why a ton of videos on youtube only go viral if they have captivating or interesting thumbnails and titles. It is the most important part.

You don't have to agree with it but in our content-laden society, it is like playing an entirely different game if you don't market.

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15 hours ago, HataVNI said:

You don't have to agree with it but in our content-laden society, it is like playing an entirely different game if you don't market.

I'm quite aware of that, and I realize that if your aim is profit and/or popularity my stance is an absurd one. But not everyone creates for that reason. That is not to say that recognition or profit is a bad thing, but for me they are secondary. 

I should say though, going with my flier analogy that there are two ways to distribute fliers, and my problem is only with one method. You can stand on a street and shove them in peoples faces, or you can put them up as posters around town. In both cases people can see them, but one is forceful and creates an obnoxious first impression. Even if it grants better results, it's that forceful type of marketing I find distasteful. 

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16 hours ago, Zalor said:

Hey, first of all congratulations on getting Siren's Call out. I haven't read it yet, but it looks quite interesting and I can tell a lot of heart went into it.

You mentioned that marketing along with management were you're weakest skills. I can't comment on my management skills since my own VN (link in my sig) was small scale and aside from the editing, which was done by a long time acquaintance on this forum, the only other person I worked with was someone I'm very close to irl. But I definitely know that I also suck at marketing. Would you mind talking about that a bit? What have you learned about marketing, and what were the difficulties for you?

Personally marketing makes me feel like a prostitute. Instead of letting people discover my work organically, I'm suppose to shill it and implicitly promise people that they'll love it. Like handing out fliers, we all know that 99% will end up stepped on and in the gutter. Something about putting my work in that situation seems like it's cheapening it. Also, I heard that social media is a big part of marketing, does your experience agree with that assessment? 

I'm toiling away at a much larger scale VN project now, so I appreciate you sharing your perspectives!

Well, essentially, the main thing I learned that marketing IS the most important part of development when it comes to actually getting people to interact with your game. Going forward with new projects, I do want to make it more of a priority from the start. I was really shy about exposing people to my work in an unfinished state, but now I realize I was only sheltering myself from the fear of things not working out. Even if marketing draws negative attention, that is better sales wise for your game than no attention at all.

That being said, I am somewhat glad I was ignorant to marketing and its importance for Siren's Call. I can't even imagine how much of a hit the story would've taken if I was writing to cater more to the whims of other people rather than my own personal experiences. Even if it did better in terms of downloads, it wouldn't have been a product I'd be proud of a as a writer, and I think that's important to consider too when you're making a VN. What you prioritize during the development process ultimately shows in the final product, I feel. But I also don't think it's correct to prioritize some aspects over others 100% of the time. I think it's contextual. If you value writing, focus on the writing. If you want downloads, focus on marketing. And if you have the funds/time/manpower to do both, then do both.

If you're putting your work out there in the first place, you're gonna have moments where you feel dirty or like a shill or whathave you. And that's okay and completely normal. You aren't bad for feeling those things or wrong for thinking about them (lord knows I have). But while I haven't exactly tasted mainstream success, I imagine that's only possible with VNs after learning to accept that feeling to some regard.

That being said, living with the feeling or not, I'm probably just going to hire somebody to do the marketing for future projects. I'm already wearing enough hats. Social media is a big part of it and that takes way too much time for me. Cause I don't know if anything really happens organically with game visibility. I think it always takes somebody pushing it. I think that's normal. It doesn't have to be you pushing it though, if that's any comfort.



 

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