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[Studio Frisay] Imasugu Onii-chan ni Imouto datte Iitai! Translation Project [Released]


Tooko
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Just now, attackotter said:

I can understand your view, but at the end of the day, keeping something untranslated that can easily be adapted into something with the same effect goes against the point of a translation in the first place. There are cases where adapting something may be unfeasible (i.e. the Epitaph in Umineko), but for simple wordplay and banter, it's in a translation's best interest that the humor be conveyed in the target language, instead of an awkward explanation that can interrupt the flow of a scene or even muddy the dynamic between characters.

There are of course situations where a literal take on a joke can have the same amount of humor as an adaptation of that joke, but that's situational and I'd argue doesn't work in this case.

In this case, it's a scene ultimately leading to a cringey pun, which doesn't really come across in the furigana as well as it does in the adapted joke.

Except it was translated. You're thinking of localization and not translation. Some people prefer having the cultural context of the jokes and seeing the original intent. You can prefer the adapted replacements, but some people don't and would prefer to get an insight into the culture and language of the media they're consuming.

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Just now, pik3rob said:

Except it was translated. You're thinking of localization and not translation. Some people prefer having the cultural context of the jokes and seeing the original intent. You can prefer the adapted replacements, but some people don't and would prefer to get an insight into the culture and language of the media they're consuming.

As I stated earlier, the version of the joke you prefer is itself a localization of the joke. It's one that translates the joke literally and adds notes to explain the wordplay, but it's still a style of localization.

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1 minute ago, attackotter said:

As I stated earlier, the version of the joke you prefer is itself a localization of the joke. It's one that translates the joke literally and adds notes to explain the wordplay, but it's still a style of localization.

But it's less localized than the one you prefer. In the end translation is always going to have to take some liberties and go against the author's intent by it's very existence. But that doesn't mean that when possible we shouldn't try to stay true to the original as much as we can.

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Just now, pik3rob said:

But it's less localized than the one you prefer. In the end translation is always going to have to take some liberties and go against the author's intent by it's very existence. But that doesn't mean that when possible we shouldn't try to stay true to the original as much as we can.

There's no such thing as "more" or "less" localized. Translation is inherently localizing to a different language. There are different styles of adaptation, but that's all it is, styles.

And ultimately we just have different views on what being true to the original is. I think being true to the original is trying to make a translation as seamless as possible so that the translation reads as naturally in its target language as the Japanese read to native Japanese readers, reflecting character personalities and writing style over trying to match every literal word.

You prefer a style that leaves things more stilted, with explanations inserted into the text for readers to learn from over adapting the translation to match the original in a different language.

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2 minutes ago, attackotter said:

There's no such thing as "more" or "less" localized. Translation is inherently localizing to a different language. There are different styles of adaptation, but that's all it is, styles.

And ultimately we just have different views on what being true to the original is. I think being true to the original is trying to make a translation as seamless as possible so that the translation reads as naturally in its target language as the Japanese read to native Japanese readers, reflecting character personalities and writing style over trying to match every literal word.

You prefer a style that leaves things more stilted, with explanations inserted into the text for readers to learn from over adapting the translation to match the original in a different language.

Sorry, but your view is way too biased. You're acting like I'm advocating for every single line of dialogue to have furigana and to read unnaturally. Reading naturally and staying true to the original are two different things. You misinterpret that I'm looking for word for word literal translation when I'm more about preserving the intent of what's being said, and when localization gets difficult in the case of things such as jokes, to be able to seamlessly have the audience understand the original joke rather than replacing it. There are indeed different levels of localization, since in some cases someone can adapt the original intended sentence naturally in a way the reader can understand while preserving the intent, while another translator might unnecessarily add in their own flair to it in an attempt to make it more "easy to read" when it's not called for.

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Don't let this get heated 🙏. In the end we shall just agree to disagree. As long the localization is not truly throwing the script out of the window and adlibbing everything then there should be no problem when compromises are made. The issue comes from basically both sides aiming to achieve the same goal "having the work translated" in two diametrally opposed ways. It is a philosophical question in the end.

The king's path of translation is to make the target text look like it was written in target language. There are a lot of ways how to achieve that, but sometimes compromises are made and advanced techniques like calquing or giving a culture note intratextually have to be made. Since there are so many possibilities it is simply a matter of which loses the least and gains the most. Also target audience has to be taken into account too.

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Was it important to the writer that this particular joke be used, though? I didn't read the VN so I can't comment, but quite often the purpose of a joke is mostly to be funny in some way, not connected to some deeper theme. So the purpose behind what was written in the original was "to be funny", and if you write a different funny joke (perhaps using similar material), that's respecting what the writer was trying to do in the original as well.

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An extreme example would be Lamunation for example which is a game that's full-on meme. Here the intent of every section is to be as wacky and funny as possible. Localization now does the wacky and funny, but with references and jokes that are close to the target languages psychological distance where as trying to keep to adhere to the original japanese jokes and references would have an entirely different outcome. It would not be necessarily funny, the reader has to google up stuff and the goal here would be "it's funny but joke has to be explained first" which is NOT the intent of the original writing.

And we know from comedy, if you have to explain the joke it was not funny in the first place.

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1 hour ago, Zakamutt said:

Was it important to the writer that this particular joke be used, though? I didn't read the VN so I can't comment, but quite often the purpose of a joke is mostly to be funny in some way, not connected to some deeper theme. So the purpose behind what was written in the original was "to be funny", and if you write a different funny joke (perhaps using similar material), that's respecting what the writer was trying to do in the original as well.

the way i see it is that we don't entirely know what is or isn't important to the author, so just assuming everything is important is what we should default to. it does no harm to the work to preserve the original meaning. there's this misconception that having the meaning explained in such a manner is highly disruptive or hard to read, when in reality people are more likely to just read it, understand the context, and continue.

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I would say most people think it's more disruptive than you ("having to explain the joke" is literally a standard bad thing), and that's the reason you have a divergent viewpoint.

As for guessing what is or isn't important to the author, it is sometimes difficult, but honestly not very often. Most sane translators read the whole work before starting work on it, and most authors are not deliberately obscurantist. I'll willingly take the 0.5% chance of being wrong about a minor detail being relevant to the writer over having to write explanations every time (which is not to say that many approaches do not exist that can be less obtrusive than glosses and still work).

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Quote

Most sane translators read the whole work before starting work on it, and most authors are not deliberately obscurantist

Nope, there is barely time for that, translating in the industry at least. You can even be glad if you even get access to the game (like when it is just being produced kinda impossible). Any sane translator would do that, but not every workplace or project is sane enough to offer access to such things. Actually, I should bring more people who know about this into this forum because looking at things from a fan translation project perspective will make our expectations skewed.

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47 minutes ago, HataVNI said:

Nope, there is barely time for that, translating in the industry at least. You can even be glad if you even get access to the game (like when it is just being produced kinda impossible). Any sane translator would do that, but not every workplace or project is sane enough to offer access to such things. Actually, I should bring more people who know about this into this forum because looking at things from a fan translation project perspective will make our expectations skewed.

I definitely know translators in the VN loc industry that actually do this still. That said, I don't think they're always getting paid for the time, so... #passion...

I also think most book translators would do it no other way, though certainly there the time expenditure is usually less. Not reading the whole thing is basically a cope due to getting paid too little or having unreasonable working conditions. Especially in a fan tl context, I can't help but think of it as unwise. What if you end up hating the work halfway through? There are always exceptions, but yeah...

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5 hours ago, Tooko said:

Thank you to everyone for being patient. Here it is, the full patch, ver. 1.00: Download

If you like, swing by the Studio Frisay Discord channel during or after playing the game for discussing the game and the patch.

The first post in this thread has also been updated to include a download link.

Thank you for your hard work. I'm hyped like hell. It was on my wishlist for a VERY long time : I'm a big fan of Akinashi Yuu since I read KoiChoco:wub:

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Quick question: Is there anything important in the system.arc file?

I asked that, because I actually could not open the game after copying the patch (未走義のシステム制御命令 s8162 を検出しました), and reverting the system.arc file back to original solved it. Seemed to cause no visible change to the game though (everything is still translated, other than, well, the windows title), so I guess it's fine?

 

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3 hours ago, Satsuki said:

Quick question: Is there anything important in the system.arc file?

I asked that, because I actually could not open the game after copying the patch (未走義のシステム制御命令 s8162 を検出しました), and reverting the system.arc file back to original solved it. Seemed to cause no visible change to the game though (everything is still translated, other than, well, the windows title), so I guess it's fine?

 

Are you using the download edition or the disc version of the game? The disc version has a couple other files in system.arc that are required to launch the game. That's why there are two specific files for the disc version, one of which is system.arc.

To answer your question, there's nothing terribly important in system.arc; just a couple cosmetic changes. The big issue issue really comes from not using sysprg.arc in the Disc version folder if you are using that version. There will be some bugs present in the game if the incorrect sysprg.arc file is used.

Otherwise, if you're using the download edition, I'm unsure why you'd get that error. The system.arc in the English patch folder for use with the download edition caused no such error when I used it.

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3 hours ago, Pinkman said:

Congrats on releasing the patch. Whatever Japanese visual novel you wish or plan to translate next, I wish that your team pick one that is anything but an all-ages rerelease of an eroge, even if they have additional scenarios, CGs or new heroines, please. 

Best blessings.

Just in case that's what you mean, this game is not an all-ages re-relrease, but an originally all-ages VN.

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I'm allowing myself to double post to say I finished the game.

And it was so good and cute ! Again, thank you Tooko for all the hard work. The translation was nicely done and a lot of effort was put into it (translating all the texts in the CGs must have been hell)

So again thank you and congratulation for this release!

Now I just have to wait for Aokana Extra 2 EN to have played all released sprite (and associated) games

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's my belated congratulation from mine, and here's hoping that more people will know Imaimo now that we have full translation of it available. Also while I know technically the developer name is not sprite, I still treat Imaimo as sprite's VN here simply because fairys here is the branch company of sprite. Lastly well I'll just say have fun if you already play this or already tried this for a while.

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