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[Studio Frisay] Imasugu Onii-chan ni Imouto datte Iitai! Translation Project [Released]


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9 hours ago, Satsuki said:

So...ugh...no offence to you, but I would like to ask, given that this is a solo project, are you confident with the quality of the final translation? I mean, 45k lines in less than 3 months is REALLY fast, and then 2 months for both editing and QCing. Most other teams would probably spend at least a year for a VN of this size.

Hey there, I personally can vouch for quality since, as I have assisted in both image editing and lyric translation and typesetting, I have seen some of the translation for myself. (He even gave me the first 10 scripts to look through.)

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With image editing, I was given a specific script (not sharing which since it's major spoilers) which was required for changing the text of the image. He basically gave me the entire scene script, giving me the chance to go through it. Now, it doesn't say much if I say it is good, and with considering my own translation efforts didn't reach this far by a long shot.

However, he did give me the first 10 script files of their completed translation, which I have definitely reached in my own efforts. Clearly better than my own, as well as much more clearer with the idea trying to be conveyed in the original text. They were even planning on going full-on localization mode with the strawberry pun in the early parts. But ultimately they chose to take the more literal route and take advantage of the furigana text space to explain the joke. 

 

Spoiler

 

2eGKE5G.png
I'm using the notes column to show what is the final translation.

Please note, the release patch WILL NOT be using the "stickberry" "elderberry" pun. It's been made clear that a lot of people will take note of and comment on the voicelines not matching the translations, which Tooko is trying to avoid.

 

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And that connects to editing. They did most of it during or right after translating a line. That might not sound all that good, but as a manga scanlator looking to get a chapter out sooner rather than later, these actions must be done (source: trust me bro I'm also a scanlator). And with 10 years under their belt as they'd mentioned, it's probably habit. Seeing as how they said they are meticulous, especially in the translation phase, they might catch the odd wording right then and there. And for the QC work, most of it was pretty good as it was, with a majority of the changes being word wrapping issues that the tool used for script reinsertion couldn't do itself, among other things.

iuj6BAv.png

It is possible to get a translation done in a wildly shorter amount of time if done efficiently and with experience. It a good point to remember that a majority of translations are done by a group of people, and the event chance of one member starting to slack or going AWOL is high. (That's not to say that Tooko's work is a perfect example for ideals; many groups suffer from other issues such as engine related problems. Tooko was just lucky to get a lot of it done with little to no problems snaring progress.)

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Now with the video typesetting. Initially, I was going to be using my translations entirely, but my confidence in the translations are like a twig, mainly because lyrical writing is somewhat different than writing for conversations, especially with two of the EDs. So, I had Tooko look over the translations and correct them. The translations are much more solid now than my jumbled mess of me translating a bit too literally.
They really care about how a translation my look, as can be seen in here where they shows the corrections he made for the Grand OP lyrics:

Spoiler

ftWDnCr.png

That said, Tooko allowed me to share the Grand OP in its English typesetted glory. (<-- that's the link to a streamable page, I don't know if this forum does streamable embeds)
Think of it as a "trailer" for release.

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I've already written a lot, and the release is just around the corner. Two people's claim on quality for this patch may not suffice, but it's ultimately up to the reader to make their claim on quality. Sorry for the wall of text.

Edited by nReus
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I'll just leave this here in case anyone is interested in seeing what that localized joke with the strawberry pun would look like in-game (which will be available as an alternative version in the patch, if you would rather want that version).

And this is what the default (non-localized) version looks like.

This post is in direct response to Alex (@FennecBabe) who responded to the Fuwanovel Twitter post. I appreciate at least someone found the humor in it. I too found it a funny localization, but I honesty thought no one else would, so I had chosen to nix it pretty early on, but if others appreciate it too, I guess it's all good.

Edited by Tooko
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Oh my fucking god, I just saw a picture of the game for the first time and it's absolutely gorgeous. I'm wishing you a lot of luck translating it. And don't get too hung up on these specificities, you are probably in the upper echelon of fan translation right now, but there could definitely be better talent breeding in the future. I hope so!

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On 9/6/2022 at 11:29 PM, Tooko said:

I'll just leave this here in case anyone is interested in seeing what that localized joke with the strawberry pun would look like in-game (which will be available as an alternative version in the patch, if you would rather want that version).

And this is what the default (non-localized) version looks like.

This post is in direct response to Alex (@FennecBabe) who responded to the Fuwanovel Twitter post. I appreciate at least someone found the humor in it. I too found it a funny localization, but I honesty thought no one else would, so I had chosen to nix it pretty early on, but if others appreciate it too, I guess it's all good.

Heya! Alex from twitter. Didn't realize anyone would pay attention to my tweet. Sorry if my tweet came off as abrasive. I was just disappointed that someone who could think up something that funny would ultimately throw it out in favor of furigana explanations.

You should definitely be more confident in yourself and your choices, because that localized joke is really funny. Shared it with a few of my loc industry friends and they liked it a lot, too.

Keep on truckin!

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5 minutes ago, attackotter said:

Heya! Alex from twitter. Didn't realize anyone would pay attention to my tweet. Sorry if my tweet came off as abrasive. I was just disappointed that someone who could think up something that funny would ultimately throw it out in favor of furigana explanations.

You should definitely be more confident in yourself and your choices, because that localized joke is really funny. Shared it with a few of my loc industry friends and they liked it a lot, too.

Keep on truckin!

Thanks for signing up here actually. I'm not sure if you know, but you just jumped into the middle of a giant restructuring and revitalization effort to be putting Fuwanovel back into the middle of the VN scene with a new team. We would appreciate if you not only shared it with your loc industry friends, but also encouraged them to come here and spread some facts & knowledge. This could make it easier to actually understand the processes behind a difficult task such as localizations. We have rules in place that try to keep discussion that goes ad-hominem at bay, so don't afraid of speaking out!

Welcome to Fuwanovel, fellow text shifter :P

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4 hours ago, attackotter said:

Heya! Alex from twitter. Didn't realize anyone would pay attention to my tweet. Sorry if my tweet came off as abrasive. I was just disappointed that someone who could think up something that funny would ultimately throw it out in favor of furigana explanations.

You should definitely be more confident in yourself and your choices, because that localized joke is really funny. Shared it with a few of my loc industry friends and they liked it a lot, too.

Keep on truckin!

Honestly, much prefer the furigana explanations. Seeing the whole thing I found the furigana explanations one funnier. It's a pun, and the pun is explained in a very non obtrusive way for the reader. If it was the original intention and the pun still got through, then it is better. No need to localize the dialogue if furigana explanations like this are possible.

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Just now, pik3rob said:

Honestly, much prefer the furigana explanations. Seeing the whole thing I found the furigana explanations one funnier. It's a pun, and the pun is explained in a very non obtrusive way for the reader. If it was the original intention and the pun still got through, then it is better. No need to localize the dialogue if furigana explanations like this are possible.

 

4 hours ago, attackotter said:

Heya! Alex from twitter. Didn't realize anyone would pay attention to my tweet. Sorry if my tweet came off as abrasive. I was just disappointed that someone who could think up something that funny would ultimately throw it out in favor of furigana explanations.

You should definitely be more confident in yourself and your choices, because that localized joke is really funny. Shared it with a few of my loc industry friends and they liked it a lot, too.

Keep on truckin!

Let's just all agree that we're thankful that the translator is generous enough to provide us options of which editions of the translation we can use to our satisfaction, okay?

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2 hours ago, pik3rob said:

As long as there's a version with less of that localization nonsense, all is good.

Choosing to leave it as furigana that explains the joke is also a form of localization.

Japanese readers don't need translation notes or jokes explained through furigana, so adding that in is a form of localization that disregards the intent of the original.

It's more authentic to the original experience to create wordplay that works in the language of the translation than it is to add explanations that weren't there originally.

 

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What do you think about actually modifying games to show ruby text in English? That way translation notes could be shown without obstruction and without needing to implement or add a glossary for the more difficult culture explanations. I never understood why this is not done besides having to reprogram the engine to support this while could be a lot of overhead. I also do not think that trying to do that is a regression from existing localization practices, it is more a modification to particular demand of a particular userbase (sometimes also stated as "pandering")

I would also appreciate if it was possible to like implement smth like a "rikaikun/rikaichan-like feature" with a hover dictionary for particular words which then show the cultural context note. That way ppl could check it but ppl are want to read undisturbed from their immersion simply don't have to use it. Sure, this was not in the original Japanese game, but I have seen games that did not have a glossary in Japanese have one added in English and that is also a major modification of intent and purpose.

Idk, I believe that localizers could simply be more creative with extra-textual methods instead of intratextually modifying the text. We're living in the future now.
 

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Trust me when I say that some of us translators would love to add much more to what the original offers. Sometimes, it isn't possible due to engine limitations or lack of resources. Unfortunately, BGI/Ethornell is one of those locked down engines that make it hard to modify beyond script and image editing. For official localizers, it could be viable. 

Who knows, maybe if another BGI--based novel has this sort of feature, it could be possible to frankenstein the engine, though it may be more difficult because Buriko keeps updating the engine (don't quote me on that).

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  • Tooko changed the title to [Studio Frisay] Imasugu Onii-chan ni Imouto datte Iitai! Translation Project [Released]
37 minutes ago, Tooko said:

Thank you to everyone for being patient. Here it is, the full patch, ver. 1.00: Download

If you like, swing by the Studio Frisay Discord channel during or after playing the game for discussing the game and the patch.

The first post in this thread has also been updated to include a download link.

May I know if fuwa is the only place to get the patch from right now? Because if that is the case you basically funnelled a lot of ppl into our place, supporting our revitalization efforts actively and I'm glad for it.

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10 minutes ago, HataVNI said:

May I know if fuwa is the only place to get the patch from right now? Because if that is the case you basically funnelled a lot of ppl into our place, supporting our revitalization efforts actively and I'm glad for it.

It's also on vndb (although this thread is also linked on that page) and on the discord channel, but that's it.

Edited by Tooko
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2 hours ago, attackotter said:

Choosing to leave it as furigana that explains the joke is also a form of localization.

Japanese readers don't need translation notes or jokes explained through furigana, so adding that in is a form of localization that disregards the intent of the original.

It's more authentic to the original experience to create wordplay that works in the language of the translation than it is to add explanations that weren't there originally.

 

The original intent was the assumption that the reader has the context of the language that allows them to understand the joke presented. Giving that context allows the intent to remain in tact. Having a different joke added in instead is outside the intent since the intent of what was being said was to tell this specific joke, not a different one.

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3 hours ago, HataVNI said:

What do you think about actually modifying games to show ruby text in English? That way translation notes could be shown without obstruction and without needing to implement or add a glossary for the more difficult culture explanations. I never understood why this is not done besides having to reprogram the engine to support this while could be a lot of overhead. I also do not think that trying to do that is a regression from existing localization practices, it is more a modification to particular demand of a particular userbase (sometimes also stated as "pandering")

I would also appreciate if it was possible to like implement smth like a "rikaikun/rikaichan-like feature" with a hover dictionary for particular words which then show the cultural context note. That way ppl could check it but ppl are want to read undisturbed from their immersion simply don't have to use it. Sure, this was not in the original Japanese game, but I have seen games that did not have a glossary in Japanese have one added in English and that is also a major modification of intent and purpose.

Idk, I believe that localizers could simply be more creative with extra-textual methods instead of intratextually modifying the text. We're living in the future now.
 

I'd personally view those as going into the level of teaching tools. They're not a bad idea, but they don't really have a place in entertainment-focused translation and would ultimately take resources away from already pretty slim translation budgets. I definitely think JP-learning through media consumption would be a lot more accessible with an approach like that though.

 

58 minutes ago, pik3rob said:

The original intent was the assumption that the reader has the context of the language that allows them to understand the joke presented. Giving that context allows the intent to remain in tact. Having a different joke added in instead is outside the intent since the intent of what was being said was to tell this specific joke, not a different one.

The original intended way to read the work was made under the assumption that the reader would be a native speaker of the language the joke is made in. Humor does not translate on a literal word-for-word level and providing explanations instead of adapting them to the target language actively works against what the creators were making: a joke.

Understanding where the joke came from in its original language is a great teaching tool, but is not at all great for entertainment.

Also reading the work in a language other than Japanese is itself going against the original intention of the work, so your argument doesn't stand.

Edited by attackotter
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1 minute ago, attackotter said:

I'd personally view those as going into the level of teaching tools. They're not a bad idea, but they don't really have a place in entertainment-focused translation and would ultimately take resources away from already pretty slim translation budgets. I definitely think JP-learning through media consumption would be a lot more accessible with an approach like that though.

 

The original intended way to read the work was made under the assumption that the reader would be a native speaker of the language the joke is made in. Humor does not translate on a literal word-for-word level and providing explanations instead of adapting them to the target language actively works against what the creators were making: a joke.

Understanding where the joke came from in its original language is a great teaching tool, but is not at all great for entertainment.

Except when the original language is kept in tact, a joke is still made. I personally found the joke with the furigana to be funny, and I can assume you didn't. I didn't like the adapted joke. You apparently did. In the end of the day even with the original language kept in tact, a joke can be made. A joke that some people might like and some people might not, but a joke nonetheless. Only difference is that one is the joke that the original author made, and the other is the joke somebody else made. I'm personally more interested in the joke the author made.

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1 minute ago, pik3rob said:

Except when the original language is kept in tact, a joke is still made. I personally found the joke with the furigana to be funny, and I can assume you didn't. I didn't like the adapted joke. You apparently did. In the end of the day even with the original language kept in tact, a joke can be made. A joke that some people might like and some people might not, but a joke nonetheless. Only difference is that one is the joke that the original author made, and the other is the joke somebody else made. I'm personally more interested in the joke the author made.

I can understand your view, but at the end of the day, keeping something untranslated that can easily be adapted into something with the same effect goes against the point of a translation in the first place. There are cases where adapting something may be unfeasible (i.e. the Epitaph in Umineko), but for simple wordplay and banter, it's in a translation's best interest that the humor be conveyed in the target language, instead of an awkward explanation that can interrupt the flow of a scene or even muddy the dynamic between characters.

There are of course situations where a literal take on a joke can have the same amount of humor as an adaptation of that joke, but that's situational and I'd argue doesn't work in this case.

In this case, it's a scene ultimately leading to a cringey pun, which doesn't really come across in the furigana as well as it does in the adapted joke.

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