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[Hun]Lepto

Basically, how much can VNDB scores be trusted?

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Like in many media places, the score systems are not always indicative of the overall quality. How accurate is it actually on VNDB? I usually see recommendations here (mainly from those who have already read ton of VNs) where they recommend "great VNs" that sometimes have a score lower than 7.

Edited by [Hun]Lepto

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Taste is always subjective. I may love something that others think is trash and vice versa, and my scores would reflect that. I, for example, don't like G-senjou no Maou and gave it a 7, while many consider it a masterpiece.

Of course, if there are hundreds of low scores, something is not right with that game - but even that is not certain, as low scores can be due to anything, a poor story, bad characters, it being LGBT [yeah, there are people who would give low scores just because of that], etc.

I think the best way to find out if a VN is good is by reading it yourself, at least the beginning. If that's not possible, look for in depth reviews where the author justifies their scores. What I also do is to see who is the author of the VN and if I like what they write.

Edited by Silvz

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A lot of things comes into play in rather hilarious ways when it comes to scores in vndb.

The biggest divide is from TL readers and people who read JP.

First the English readers.
The highest scored vns are the ones that are tl'd and recommended to beginners. Beginners usually are easily impressed and give high ratings. As you read more and more, you tend to give lower scores and be more critical. So when you start to read more obscure titles, you'd give lower scores. You might or might not have scored the more obscure titles as a beginner if you read them early.
Hard to say, as later on you choose things out of your normal reading range because you'd read everything else you wanted to read.

Now to the Japanese readers.
Although not universal, most people who for some reason decided it was a good idea to learn jp. Prbly has consumed so much weeb material they wanted more. So they usually are more picky or know very well what they enjoy. Moe loves will give 10/10 to moe stuff and wise versa for edgy or chuuni stuff. Or they might be more reading everything. Overall though I'd say they give lower scores averages.

So basically. A low score title might be just low because the readers are more strict. Or it might just be bad.
If someone has good taste and recommends it, usually it's the first.

8 minutes ago, Silvz said:

 I, for example, don't like G-senjou no Maou and gave it a 7, while many consider it a masterpiece.

G-senjou was the first vn I read. Loved it at the time. Years later I tried reading it in JP. I found it enjoyable. But I didn't enjoy it nearly as much the 2nd time.

As a afterthought. Afterwards I didn't bother changing my vndb score for the game. And I don't think many people do either. Even if their subjective taste change with time.

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There's no such thing as good or bad taste to begin with and everyone rates differently anyways, most of my VNDB list is full of 10s because I rate by enjoyment only and I tend to enjoy what I read.

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VNDB scores are probably accurate for many English translated titles, but various biases make the ratings for Japanese-only titles more unreliable.  Scores often change significantly once these games are translated.  Fans have expectations that may or may not be relevant to you; when expectations aren't met, this can artificially lower ratings, especially shortly after release.  Titles with selective appeal may or may not be accurately scored for you, depending on whether your tastes match those of the average voter.

As a case study, let's look at School Days HQ.  Average: 6.6; mode: 7; votes: 2800.  This score is pretty low for a translated non-nukige.  A chief reason the score is so low is that the game is unstable; the game crashes, with the frequency depending on your particular setup.  However, the game offers a highly unique experience: nearly full animation, extensive story branching, and pseudo-realistic teen drama.  If you want this combination--in English--there are basically no other options except Shiny Days.  Shiny Days itself has a higher score (7.1, 500 votes), but this is not necessarily because it's a better game; instead those who disliked School Days probably didn't go on to play and score Shiny Days, raising the overall score.

Edited by sanahtlig

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17 hours ago, Shaun said:

There's no such thing as good or bad taste to begin with and everyone rates differently anyways, most of my VNDB list is full of 10s because I rate by enjoyment only and I tend to enjoy what I read.

There most definitely is

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10 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

VNDB scores are probably accurate for many English translated titles, but various biases make the ratings for Japanese-only titles more unreliable.  Scores often change significantly once these games are translated.  Fans have expectations that may or may not be relevant to you; when expectations aren't met, this can artificially lower ratings, especially shortly after release.  Titles with selective appeal may or may not be accurately scored for you, depending on whether your tastes match those of the average voter.

As a case study, let's look at School Days HQ.  Average: 6.6; mode: 7; votes: 2800.  This score is pretty low for a translated non-nukige.  A chief reason the score is so low is that the game is unstable; the game crashes, with the frequency depending on your particular setup.  However, the game offers a highly unique experience: nearly full animation, extensive story branching, and pseudo-realistic teen drama.  If you want this combination--in English--there are basically no other options except Shiny Days.  Shiny Days itself has a higher score (7.1, 500 votes), but this is not necessarily because it's a better game; instead those who disliked School Days probably didn't go on to play and score Shiny Days, raising the overall score.

Is there maybe a site that is like the equivalent of VNDB, but for japanese people mainly? It would be a good indicator for when I (may) learn japanese (japanese learned from school). That's mainly why I pile up even untranslated works (or also pile them up in hopes that they may one day also get translated).

Hmm, didn't know people would even score something low just because of game issues. Like hell, it's the content of the game that should count, not the issue with the game itself.

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4 hours ago, Fiddle said:

Grisaia no Kajitsu isn't rated a 2/10 or anything close to a 2/10. Ergo, the scores cannot be trusted.

Funny, because a post like that was what made me doubt. Someone made a hate comment about his experience with Grisaia no Kajitsu and it kinda made me realize I didn't even enjoy it as much as I thought and always was thinking some things feel dumb (a group of people with decent supplies would rather stay in a forest for like 14 days instead of try finding a way out?). It really is a bit too highly praised.

Edited by [Hun]Lepto

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43 minutes ago, [Hun]Lepto said:

Is there maybe a site that is like the equivalent of VNDB, but for japanese people mainly?

Erogamescape.  They have rolling Western IP blocks so this link may or may not work at any given point in time.  DLsite JP for doujin titles (essentially a Steam equivalent).

Edited by sanahtlig

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1 hour ago, sanahtlig said:

Erogamescape.  They have rolling Western IP blocks so this link may or may not work at any given point in time.  DLsite JP for doujin titles (essentially a Steam equivalent).

Thanks, guess I may have to get Tor browser or contact the site administrator one day in japanese for legit IP unban (these are the suggestions I saw when I checked how to connect).

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You can trust, they make an effort to get rid of troll votes (e.g. people who make multiples accounts in order to inflate or downgrade a particular VN's score, and people who score without playing the game, those are the only problems I can think of).

Edited by Soul Hunter

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If you keep in mind that all translated VNs have inflated scores, it is more reliable than erogamescape, at least for Westerners' tastes.  There is also a tendency to inflate SOL game scores in general.  Disregard any votes made within two days of or before the release date for the full version, as these are usually based off of partial playthroughs or off of the trial version (if not actual trolls).

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On 8/13/2020 at 5:22 PM, droganpc said:

LOL, look at this dude. His vote is like a joke. 

There's like tons of people that only give 10s and 1s on VNDB. Or do similarly wierd things...

Also, as for OP's question, when it goes to different genres and across the JVN/EVN divide there are different audiences within the community with very different standards. You'll find completely different sort of people with vastly different idea of quality rating a story-centric EVN, an otome, a moege... In each case, their ratings mean something, but they basically work on separate scales and you just need to be aware of that to get meaningful info. 

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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Trust no one but yourself.  In the end, your thoughts and experiences regarding playing a particular Eroge/Visual Novel is what truly matters.  

Don't let the majority's opinion cloud your better judgement. Just avoid reading those lousy review scores and play the Eroges/Visual Novels that interests you straight away!

If you'll only follow the crowd, you're no different from the livestock that roams the endless horizon of the Internet.

Learn to decide for yourself and everything will follow...

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Templarseeker said:

Trust no one but yourself.  In the end, your thoughts and experiences regarding playing a particular Eroge/Visual Novel is what truly matters.  

Don't let the majority's opinion cloud your better judgement. Just avoid reading those lousy review scores and play the Eroges/Visual Novels that interests you straight away!

If you'll only follow the crowd, you're no different from the livestock that roams the endless horizon of the Internet.

Learn to decide for yourself and everything will follow...

 

 

Thing is, there are quite a few VNs that are boring or/and different in the beginning and only start getting interesting later on (Higurashi is a good example with its incredibly long slice of life comedy scenes or maybe Majikoi for me, I thought characters were walking stereotypes at first before playing it until the end of common route). Also, VNs are a much bigger time investment than most media and for that reason alone I usually would like to know whether I will read something that I regret wasting my time with or something that can be atleast interesting. Granted there are only a few I regret reading yet, but I'd like to keep it that way. I usually do follow myself only, but in case of series and stuff, I like to hear some opinions about them first.

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This was my assessment while doing VN of the Month.

Relatively few commercial non-nukige VNs were unworthy of at least being called 'decent' if one looked at them in an unbiased manner... at least by the standards of the individual genres.  If I were rating things entirely by taste, I probably would have subtracted points from most charage, but I was making an attempt not to do so for much of that period of my life.

Most people vote based on what they like, rather than the actual quality of the game.  One trick to make your way through a site like vndb is to find a member whose tastes mirror your own to some extent and use them as a base to add to your potential playlist.  If you want to try a little of everything, people like me are a better choice, since we actually make an attempt at being fair.  

VNDB asks its members to refrain from giving 10s to everything they like (though some people do anyway), and I generally followed this policy, often examining games more deeply for flaws that would keep them from being a perfect 10.  

In the end though, generalized vndb scores are rarely a full measure of the game's quality.  You can get a generalized idea of whether it might be horrible or not, and if you see a lot of bars near both the bottom and the top at the same time then it is probably a game that causes extremely diverse reactions from various people (like Eustia or Subahibi, where people either love it or hate it).

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54 minutes ago, Clephas said:

VNDB asks its members to refrain from giving 10s to everything they like

They no longer do that (that annoying and completely unnecessary popup is gone when rating a 10 or 1) and I always ignored it anyways as it is the users choice what they rate not VNDB choice.

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It's as Templarseeker said. Even if you read a in-depth review, your experience can still be very different. I had my share of reading full of praise reviews of games I found interesting at first glance, just to play it myself and not find anything praise worthy anywhere.

In the end, ratings are just highly subjective numbers. Everyone have their own standards, so nothing stops someone to give 10s to nukiges they enjoyed :makina: or giving 1s to games that have a 10 seconds NTR scene when they weren't expecting any.

It's all about your expectations and if they're fulfilled I guess.

Edited by MaggieROBOT

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2 hours ago, Silvz said:

to this day I don't get what the problem with NTR is, honestly

mmm... NTR can be problematic for people who find it easy to suspend disbelief and also think relationships should be honest and straightforward.  This is especially true of the 'forced NTR' that makes up most of the genre.  If you find it easy to get behind protagonists' eyes, it is merely a painful experience, not an exciting one... unless you are already that far gone, anyway.

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