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Think I'm Starting to Dislike the High School Romance Genre


mitchhamilton

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reading sabbat of the witch has really pushed my patience over the edge with the genre. like god, they take forever to confess and stuff. its so tip toeing and the same. "What is this feeling? Just thinking of him makes my heart pound." it can still be cute at times but when it just drags on like it has its just tiring. really makes me wish for a mature approach to romance in my vns. both parties are experienced in life and dont get so easily flustered by all that high school crap! but noooooo, they have to appeal to the younger generation to instill an ideal into their heads to procreate since their birthrates are declining! WELL MAYBE IF YOU FIXED THE INSANE WORK HOURS YOUR PEOPLE HAVE YOU WOULDNT BE IN THIS SITUATION, JAPAN!!!! :ryuusui:

 

Anyways, thats my rant over, felt like voicing that thought so i did. what are yours? :mare: 

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34 minutes ago, mitchhamilton said:

reading sabbat of the witch has really pushed my patience over the edge with the genre. like god, they take forever to confess and stuff. its so tip toeing and the same. "What is this feeling? Just thinking of him makes my heart pound." it can still be cute at times but when it just drags on like it has its just tiring. really makes me wish for a mature approach to romance in my vns. both parties are experienced in life and dont get so easily flustered by all that high school crap! but noooooo, they have to appeal to the younger generation to instill an ideal into their heads to procreate since their birthrates are declining! WELL MAYBE IF YOU FIXED THE INSANE WORK HOURS YOUR PEOPLE HAVE YOU WOULDNT BE IN THIS SITUATION, JAPAN!!!! :ryuusui:

 

Anyways, thats my rant over, felt like voicing that thought so i did. what are yours? :mare: 

Romance is a sign of immaturity, lol.

More seriously, you've just repeated the scream of about 80% of all heavy VN addicts (those who have passed 100 played, at the least) in the US... everybody kind of wants the high school settings and high school romance to sort of fall by the wayside for a while.  Unfortunately, most JVN companies make most of their money off this type of VN.  It is only recently that the market for high school sol has begun to slump enough that the fundamentally conservative Japanese industry began to take notice.  You can see this in the lower overall numbers of releases over there as well as the increase in attempts to make games that go past just providing the fake high school romance experience.

The breakdown in traditional methods of finding a marriage partner in Japan (arranged marriages, omiai, etc) and the rise of romantic marriages in Japan is one of the prime reasons for the collapse of the birthrate.  Romance in marriage was a concept that was virtually nonexistent in Japanese culture until the twentieth century, and even now, marriage meetings/omiai (parents arranging for their children to meet and see if they are compatible) are pretty common in Japan.  There is a belief that 'romance' in the sense we think of it, only really happens in high school and the early twenties.  

Edit: The other reason for the fall of the birthrate is an increasing number of younger people just thinking they can't afford to have kids.

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1 minute ago, Clephas said:

More seriously, you've just repeated the scream of about 80% of all heavy VN addicts (those who have passed 100 played, at the least) in the US... everybody kind of wants the high school settings and high school romance to sort of fall by the wayside for a while.  Unfortunately, most JVN companies make most of their money off this type of VN.  It is only recently that the market for high school sol has begun to slump enough that the fundamentally conservative Japanese industry began to take notice.  You can see this in the lower overall numbers of releases over there as well as the increase in attempts to make games that go past just providing the fake high school romance experience.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard from some sources that the reason there are a lot of high school settings in Japanese media is because they see it as the most nostalgic part of life that they unfortunately cannot replicate once they're an adult and graduated from college/university. Is this true?

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23 minutes ago, AdventuringAtelier said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard from some sources that the reason there are a lot of high school settings in Japanese media is because they see it as the most nostalgic part of life that they unfortunately cannot replicate once they're an adult and graduated from college/university. Is this true?

The height of SOL sales in JVNs was 2008-2015.  Since then, there has been a gradual decline in the numbers of such games produced, their sales, and their quality.  This is due to a change in demographics as well as changes in the average consumer's financial situation.  The increase in the sales' tax has also induced otakus to be more careful about which games they buy this last year or so (though this is a marginal effect overall), meaning that the more borderline SOL-only companies have gone silent or are producing only slowly with contractor employees only.  

Companies that have a more varied lineup seem to be doing fine, but the companies that only do SOL high school romance aren't doing well.

Edit: As a side-note, more and more, you have companies with no real writing talent that try to make plotge or add plot to their SOL games... and it tends to be wince-worthy.

Edit2:... because they don't follow through.

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I hilariously ended up getting more into the "high-school-romance-genre" after going through the Tokimeki Memorial Girl's Side series and knowing the struggle of saving up money for a yukata or patiently waiting for a flea market sale in order to get nice clothing for cheap, so every time a moege girl shows up in a yukata or in nice casual clothing for a date i go all "YEAH YOU GO GIRL".

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In my experience with VNs, romance is one of two things that many VN writers think they can do well but actually they're shit at (the other being foreshadowing).  Scrolling through my VN list, the only instances of good romance on my list are Sachi and Michiru's after stories in Grisaia no Meikyuu and Mashiro's route in Aokana.  And honestly none of those are stellar examples, they just happen to stand out against a massive backdrop of mediocrity and trash.  For me personally, I like high school settings because (despite being nothing like actual high school) they're immediately understandable and allow my focus to be entirely on the characters and story.  That said, that main advantage is also it's main weakness as it generally doesn't work as a compelling setting and therefore is a bad choice if you want a novel where the setting plays a big role.

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1 hour ago, GXOALMD said:

In my experience with VNs, romance is one of two things that many VN writers think they can do well but actually they're shit at (the other being foreshadowing).

If I may ask, what is it you're looking for in romance stories and do you have examples of it done well even outside VNs?

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2 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

If I may ask, what is it you're looking for in romance stories and do you have examples of it done well even outside VNs?

That's a bit tricky as I actually don't tend to look for romance these days.  I also can't really pin down exactly what does or doesn't make for good romance.  Looking for examples from other media, the first thing that comes to mind is Toradora (thank you other thread on this site for bringing that to the front of my mind.)  For the most part, I found the romance in books to be generally more compelling than in VNs, though it's been a while since I read a regular book and any example I have from those may or may not actually hold up with me today.  One more unusual example I have is the TV show Chuck; while it didn't contain many romance scenes, the ones it had tended to just work so well.

I also perhaps should specify that I think many VNs tell love stories well and it is specifically the romance aspects of those stories that VNs tend to fall short on.

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2 minutes ago, GXOALMD said:

That's a bit tricky as I actually don't tend to look for romance these days.  I also can't really pin down exactly what does or doesn't make for good romance.  Looking for examples from other media, the first thing that comes to mind is Toradora (thank you other thread on this site for bringing that to the front of my mind.)  For the most part, I found the romance in books to be generally more compelling than in VNs, though it's been a while since I read a regular book and any example I have from those may or may not actually hold up with me today.  One more unusual example I have is the TV show Chuck; while it didn't contain many romance scenes, the ones it had tended to just work so well.

I also perhaps should specify that I think many VNs tell love stories well and it is specifically the romance aspects of those stories that VNs tend to fall short on.

I see, thank you.
I'm surprised to hear about Chuck, since its one of like 5 or so non-animated TV shows I've ever watched, so it's quite the coincidence to hear about it here of all places. Unfortunately, I do not recall it well enough to agree or disagree with the assessment.
Toradora's also a really curious one because while I love the characters, I heavily dislike the plot (I don't think the attraction between the two leads was natural and find that others imposed their views on them in that matter. Especially in Ryuuji's case) and think that most events within were melodramatic, which I almost always dislike.

(I was going to link a couple of threads with romance manga and anime to see if you like any of them but I've bugged you enough. Thanks.)

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9 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

I see, thank you.
I'm surprised to hear about Chuck, since its one of like 5 or so non-animated TV shows I've ever watched, so it's quite the coincidence to hear about it here of all places. Unfortunately, I do not recall it well enough to agree or disagree with the assessment.
Toradora's also a really curious one because while I love the characters, I heavily dislike the plot (I don't think the attraction between the two leads was natural and find that others imposed their views on them in that matter. Especially in Ryuuji's case) and think that most events within were melodramatic, which I almost always dislike.

(I was going to link a couple of threads with romance manga and anime to see if you like any of them but I've bugged you enough. Thanks.)

Wow, you're like the ~3rd person I've ever met who's watched Chuck.  As for Toradora I do want to say that I think the melodrama worked in it as at that age things tend to feel far more significant than they actually are, especially when it comes to emotions.

Feel free to link those threads, but I'm pretty new to anime and I've basically not read any manga, so it's distinctly possible I won't be able to speak to any of it.

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17 hours ago, Mr Poltroon said:

I see, thank you.
I'm surprised to hear about Chuck, since its one of like 5 or so non-animated TV shows I've ever watched, so it's quite the coincidence to hear about it here of all places. Unfortunately, I do not recall it well enough to agree or disagree with the assessment.
Toradora's also a really curious one because while I love the characters, I heavily dislike the plot (I don't think the attraction between the two leads was natural and find that others imposed their views on them in that matter. Especially in Ryuuji's case) and think that most events within were melodramatic, which I almost always dislike.

(I was going to link a couple of threads with romance manga and anime to see if you like any of them but I've bugged you enough. Thanks.)

Whaaaaaaaat? What about the part where they had a huge fight in the classroom with weapons that ended with both parties coming out bloodied? that wasn't natural for you!?

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Spice and Wolf has my favourite couple and best portrayal of romance and love not only in anime/light novel (Both are great), but in all of the media I've ever seen.

Nodame Cantabile is also pretty good, Kids on the Slope is very organic and genuine and Chihayafuru has less focus on it, but really great characters. All of those would make my top 50 Anime ever.

I liked toradora, but also less for the romance and more for the characters and humour.

On the topic of High School VNs: I try to mix it up and read High school stuff only with a considerable gap inbetween. (At least when the school and typical school tropes make a lot of the VNs read time) There are some that I genuinely like and recommend, like Chrono Clock and Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai, but a lot of them feel lazy, tired, repetitive...

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33 minutes ago, Ruberick said:

Spice and Wolf has my favourite couple and best portrayal of romance and love not only in anime/light novel (Both are great), but in all of the media I've ever seen.

Nodame Cantabile is also pretty good, Kids on the Slope is very organic and genuine and Chihayafuru has less focus on it, but really great characters. All of those would make my top 50 Anime ever.

I liked toradora, but also less for the romance and more for the characters and humour.

Was this intended for this thread?

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I prefer my romances peppered into a larger narrative. For instance, the blossoming romance in

Spoiler

Steins;Gate

was really adorable and endearing. 

 

Now, a game that's straight up "high school romance" as a main plot I think I'd have difficulty with. And I'm surely not a member of the target audience, being twice the age of a high school senior. 

 

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9 minutes ago, ImperialScrolls said:

I prefer my romances peppered into a larger narrative. For instance, the blossoming romance in

  Hide contents

Steins;Gate

was really adorable and endearing. 

 

Now, a game that's straight up "high school romance" as a main plot I think I'd have difficulty with. And I'm surely not a member of the target audience, being twice the age of a high school senior. 

 

Roots;double is a good one also is a very good one.

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41 minutes ago, ImperialScrolls said:

Now, a game that's straight up "high school romance" as a main plot I think I'd have difficulty with. And I'm surely not a member of the target audience, being twice the age of a high school senior. 

 

The older someone gets, they get closer to the target audience of these vns

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