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Ryuushi

The Version of OniiKiss released tuesday was bugged

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So guys, apparently the version of OniiKiss: Onii-chan where's my kiss? from SolPress that was released tuesday 09/24/2019 had a bug and they already have a patch for it to un-bug it.

Just go in this link: https://solpress.co/blog/739/onii-kiss-update-patch?fbclid=IwAR31Y3xV7wdLisN13g5i-ZhOW4Nlkx-dCXY2FGZzVDQsFyQbcX1So4KXVQs

Download the patch, extract it and copy to the paste of the game.

The bug in question unabled you to enter in any of the sisters route.

Edited by Ryuushi

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what about this 3rd person patch?
https://vndb.org/r66501

Quote

Patch for r60372 Onii-chan, Kiss no Junbi wa Mada Desu ka? , edits the script to show Saya's third person speech quirk present in the original Japanese release.
Includes all the fixes from r66480 Onii♥️Kiss: Onii-chan, Where's My Kiss? - Official Bug-fix Patch

 

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I would assume that in the original Japanese version Saya refers to herself in third person manner, like her saying for example "Saya loves onii-chan a whole lot" instead of saying " I love onii-chan a whole lot" They seem to have changed that for the western release. Just a wild guess though, don't take my word for it.

Edited by Twiztedharlequin

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1 hour ago, kokoro said:

it's a meme patch for nerds, don't use it lmao

So you're saying not to use a patch that will fix a bug that makes you go back to the title screen after the common route is done, are you sure you know what you're talking about or that you're quoting the right person?  If you're referring to the 3rd person patch then again that is not a meme patch that is how it is in the original Japanese version, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

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2 hours ago, Shaun said:

If you're referring to the 3rd person patch then again that is not a meme patch that is how it is in the original Japanese version, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

I wanted to say something about "3rd person" in Japanese, but since I don't even care about this particular game, and won't convince anybody no matter what, maybe I'll refrain from it... :P

Edited by adamstan

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12 minutes ago, adamstan said:

I wanted to say something about "3rd person" in Japanese, but since I don't even care about this particular game, and won't convince anybody no matter what, maybe I'll refrain from it... :P

A character talking in the 3rd person should never be changed in the western release because the voiced lines will still be doing just that which will just make the translator look like an idiot.

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22 minutes ago, Shaun said:

A character talking in the 3rd person should never be changed in the western release because the voiced lines will still be doing just that which will just make the translator look like an idiot.

This take always makes me facepalm. By this logic nothing should be translated at all, as the voiced lines will always differ from the translation. If you understand the voiced lines, what are you doing reading a translation instead of the original. 

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15 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

This take always makes me facepalm. By this logic nothing should be translated at all, as the voiced lines will always differ from the translation. If you understand the voiced lines, what are you doing reading a translation instead of the original. 

I never said I could understand the voiced lines, it's just really easy to tell when the Japanese voice is talking in 3rd or 1st person, it's really unnecessary to not translate it exactly as it appears, it's not a faithful translation if the translator doesn't include a characters 3rd or 1st person speaking, sure you don't find that many visual novels that do that but that is no excuse to change it to not include it.

 

Your logic is wrong though, you're just putting words in my mouth which I never said anything close to it.

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who talks in third person in english? i don't care about honorifics or obsolete measurement systems one way or other, but this one feels bizarre to my ear.

instead of endearing effect of japanese, sounds like a medieval servant in english.

 

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5 hours ago, ittaku said:

I'm not sure why we live in a world where translators think that just because they've received years of education, training, and practice and lived in parallel cultures for years, that they're qualified to... uh... translate.

That is hubris enforced by the echo chamber you live in. Translations are done FOR someone. If the target audience repeatedly tells you they don't like something, and you keep doing it, you deserve to fail financially. Which most companies do, so good.

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4 hours ago, Merkom said:

That is hubris enforced by the echo chamber you live in. Translations are done FOR someone. If the target audience repeatedly tells you they don't like something, and you keep doing it, you deserve to fail financially. Which most companies do, so good.

Don't presume to speak for "the target audience".  That's hubris enforced by the echo chamber you live in.  Most people do not engage online communities.  Only the biggest diehard fans do.  A small subset, skewed heavily towards those with strong opinions, is not a representative sample.  And your opinion is not even universally shared among the online community.

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I have witnessed the progress of an English speaker transitioning out of referring to themself in the third-person and into the first-person. The toddler in question finished making that change shortly before their third birthday. So if you want to feel like Saya is two years old while you're reading that game, go for it and apply that patch. Meanwhile, any halfway decent translator is going to understand how inaccurate it is to render 3rd-person self-reference in Japanese as 3rd-person self-reference in English.

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1 hour ago, Fred the Barber said:

I have witnessed the progress of an English speaker transitioning out of referring to themself in the third-person and into the first-person. The toddler in question finished making that change shortly before their third birthday. So if you want to feel like Saya is two years old while you're reading that game, go for it and apply that patch. Meanwhile, any halfway decent translator is going to understand how inaccurate it is to render 3rd-person self-reference in Japanese as 3rd-person self-reference in English.

You clearly don't know anyone who actually talks in the 3rd person, it's not very common but there are people out there our age (20-30+) who do that.

No it's not inaccurate to render 3rd person self reference in English since your example is wrong.

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4 hours ago, Shaun said:

You clearly don't know anyone who actually talks in the 3rd person, it's not very common but there are people out there our age (20-30+) who do that.

No it's not inaccurate to render 3rd person self reference in English since your example is wrong.

I would be very interested in any depictions of native speakers referring to themselves in 3rd person you may have found in media or literature (by which I mean books).

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This 3rd person patch sounds like a must get. I'm still shocked at how little translators and localizers understand their target audience. I certainly don't care how a native English person speaks. I care about how the JAPANESE VISUAL NOVEL CHARACTER speaks. I'm not looking for realistic and if you're looking for realistic characters I think you are in the wrong medium. Maybe a day will come when that's what the medium becomes, but I certainly hopes it waits until after I'm dead.

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B...b...but that's not how Japanese works, FFS...

If you insist on calling this "3rd person speech", then you would have to say that they speak in "3rd person" almost all the time. When you take almost any Japanese sentence, that uses character's name as a subject or topic, it will stay EXACTLY the same wheter it refers to the speaker, listener or other person, and the exact meaning depends on context. So if you wanted to be "literal" in this way, you would have to translate almost all lines that should be (and rightfully are) translated in 2nd person into 3rd person as well, and that would look and sound awfully awkward. For example, instead of "Are you hungry, Aoi-senpai?" you would have "Is Aoi-senpai hungry?". In Japanese both of these sentences would be the same. Or rather, sentence あおい先輩は、お腹が空きましたか。could mean both, depending on context.

That's why the character using their own name when referring to themselves, doesn't simply translate to English "3rd person speech". The whole concept of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person speech in English just doesn't map 1:1 to Japanese.

I suppose the character using their own name when speaking about themselves is considered childish not because of using their name, but because of constantly reminding that it's about them. If they would use 私 (I) instead, it would also sound silly/weird, because "normal" person usually omits the subject/topic, when it's already established from context. It's totally different from English.

It can also go the other way - since in Japanese subjects and topics often can be, and are, omitted, even the person who refers to themselves by name, can sound quite normally, except those few lines when they do it. But when you translate that as a 3rd person speech in English, which requires subject to be repeated in every sentence, it will sound MUCH weirder than in original.

And BTW, goinig away from names, whatever personal pronoun - 私 (I), あなた (you) or 彼(he) - do you use in sentence instead of a name, the rest still is unchanged. From some POV, whole Japanese language is "3rd person speech". Now deal with it :P

(Damn, I planned to stay quiet... they lured me...)

TL;DR - rendering characters who in Japanese refer to themselves by their own name into 3rd person speech in English isn't good or accurate translation.

Edited by adamstan

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14 hours ago, Nandemonai said:

Don't presume to speak for "the target audience".  That's hubris enforced by the echo chamber you live in.  Most people do not engage online communities.  Only the biggest diehard fans do.  A small subset, skewed heavily towards those with strong opinions, is not a representative sample.  And your opinion is not even universally shared among the online community.

That is how customer feedback works in any industry. Let's say you got 1000 customers. 100 of those come to you and tell you that the starters served there suck ass. Then you get positive feedback about the same starters from around 20 people, who however hang around the restaurant all the time and are friends with your chef. Of course, the chef and his buddies like it as well. You either need to act based on the feedback you got or gather more feedback. Customer complaints in general come from a very small percentage of overall customers, but normal companies usually do their utmost to do something about it. Now, this is even more pronounced in a niche industry such as eroge localization, where you get only several thousand regulars.

But we both know you will ignore this and revel in the likes you received from the aforementioned echo chamber.

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2 hours ago, Merkom said:

That is how customer feedback works in any industry. Let's say you got 1000 customers. 100 of those come to you and tell you that the starters served there suck ass. Then you get positive feedback about the same starters from around 20 people, who however hang around the restaurant all the time and are friends with your chef. Of course, the chef and his buddies like it as well. You either need to act based on the feedback you got or gather more feedback. Customer complaints in general come from a very small percentage of overall customers, but normal companies usually do their utmost to do something about it. Now, this is even more pronounced in a niche industry such as eroge localization, where you get only several thousand regulars.

But we both know you will ignore this and revel in the likes you received from the aforementioned echo chamber.

100 of them can tell them whatever they want as long as they are selling and hitting their target goals they wont bother with the “feedback” from the loudest minority 

 

How do u know they wont receive even more complaints if they act on those feedback? Stop assuming so many things

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6 hours ago, Merkom said:

That is how customer feedback works in any industry. Let's say you got 1000 customers. 100 of those come to you and tell you that the starters served there suck ass. Then you get positive feedback about the same starters from around 20 people, who however hang around the restaurant all the time and are friends with your chef. Of course, the chef and his buddies like it as well. You either need to act based on the feedback you got or gather more feedback. Customer complaints in general come from a very small percentage of overall customers, but normal companies usually do their utmost to do something about it. Now, this is even more pronounced in a niche industry such as eroge localization, where you get only several thousand regulars.

But we both know you will ignore this and revel in the likes you received from the aforementioned echo chamber.

My guy, just look at the reactions in this thread. You're in the minority on freaking Fuwanovel, the weebiest place to talk about VNs short of 4chan. The only reasonable conclusion is that the one living in an echo chamber is you, not those of us saying 3rd-person self-reference sounds like ass in translation.

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1 hour ago, Fred the Barber said:

freaking Fuwanovel, the weebiest place to talk about VNs short of 4chan.

The opposite actually, based on the localization polls ran on fuwanovel and other places. For example the biggest, r/vn/, who is way more "weeby". Why, simply look at the people who disagree in this thread. Either from the translator clique or people who hang around them constantly on discord and whatnot. Make a poll, for customers only, if you are so confident. But why would you ever ask the people you are actually trying to sell to rather than re-confirm your zealous beliefs with your colleagues? Many Japanese games have a link in the main menu to a survey about the game. Go ahead and change the link to a survey about the translation. If you are not afraid of knowing the answer, that is.

6 hours ago, Freestyle80 said:

as long as they are selling and hitting their target goals

Which they are not, based on the interview with their CEO.

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On 9/28/2019 at 7:38 AM, Shaun said:

So you're saying not to use a patch that will fix a bug that makes you go back to the title screen after the common route is done, are you sure you know what you're talking about or that you're quoting the right person?  If you're referring to the 3rd person patch then again that is not a meme patch that is how it is in the original Japanese version, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah, I was talking about the 3rd person speech patch. Sorry, I didn't mean 3rd person speech in translation is bad per se, just that that patch isn't respecting the work of the people who worked on it.

Some translations do use 3rd person speech and they come as natural, like FE3H's Bernadetta. She's such a klutzy dork.

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2 hours ago, Merkom said:

Why, simply look at the people who disagree in this thread. Either from the translator clique or people who hang around them constantly on discord and whatnot.

Yes, damn those people who actually know what they are doing disagreeing with you!

 

If you don't want an accurate translation, then why the hell should the "translators" not just rewrite the story to whatever they feel like?  It's not like you can tell the difference, and as long as they cater to your hangups, you'll be happy.

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