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To All VN Licensors and Publishers - Why We Want R18 Patches For Our Games


KingDragoYT

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2 hours ago, Formlose Gestalt said:

But lately I have come around to accepting the Japanese All Age versions of eroge (made by the developers of the 18+ version), at least in that case I can expect that they put thought into replacing those scenes and making sure that everything makes sense afterward.

I agree with the most points in your post, but I feel somewhat opposite about this part. I noticed that it's pretty common for the Japanese developers to simply cut all the H-scenes and everything that mentions them directly, while they don't really bother to make sure that the story would work without them. The last time I remember seeing that is in Aselia the Eternal. While I feel genuinely happy that I didn't have to skip through all the H-scenes with these two characters, it was very weird when the H-scenes (and probably some off-screen sex scenes) were still very clearly referenced in the text, while at every mention the text would turn vague enough to not mention them directly (though it's still pretty clear what they are talking about if you know that this game was originally an eroge). And some of these mentions don't even make much sense without sex. And there's also the first Grisaia, where the authors of the console version decided to make some very sketchy changes in some scenes that aren't even sexual in nature. To be honest, I would rather read something like the Steam version of Muv-Luv, or maybe something like Himawari, where they still show quite clearly that, yeah, these two characters had sex at this moment, and they just cut the most porny part, that I usually don't enjoy anyway.

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2 hours ago, Dreamysyu said:

I agree with the most points in your post, but I feel somewhat opposite about this part. I noticed that it's pretty common for the Japanese developers to simply cut all the H-scenes and everything that mentions them directly, while they don't really bother to make sure that the story would work without them. The last time I remember seeing that is in Aselia the Eternal. While I feel genuinely happy that I didn't have to skip through all the H-scenes with these two characters, it was very weird when the H-scenes (and probably some off-screen sex scenes) were still very clearly referenced in the text, while at every mention the text would turn vague enough to not mention them directly (though it's still pretty clear what they are talking about if you know that this game was originally an eroge). And some of these mentions don't even make much sense without sex. And there's also the first Grisaia, where the authors of the console version decided to make some very sketchy changes in some scenes that aren't even sexual in nature. To be honest, I would rather read something like the Steam version of Muv-Luv, or maybe something like Himawari, where they still show quite clearly that, yeah, these two characters had sex at this moment, and they just cut the most porny part, that I usually don't enjoy anyway.

Yeah my statement is probably to general and this must be decided on a case by case base. But what I meant was that the original developers can make a decent All Age version, while a western publisher cannot really make new scenes (unless the can convince the developer to make  for the English market which I doubt) to replace the h-scenes. So If a western publisher decides to make a new All Age release not based on an existing All Age version, they can really only rip out the h-scenes and not much else.

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Again I don't care if they want to make a console version or an all age version. I seriously don't care. Just give us options on choosing the complete r18 version like the Japanese market. I personally don't really like the H-scenes and don't even jerk off to them. They aren't really that stimulating. Though having known that they've removed something from the game means that I'm not getting the full experience of the game. I'm not afraid to say that I do like porn, but I can say for sure I don't like H-scenes and fan service scenes just because of it being fap material. There are character development involved as well. Like the H-scenes from SakuSaku. They are extremely involved with the story line. Scenes from 9-nine. I've played the all age version before realizing there was a 18+ patch. It really develops Miyako as a character. Again I'm not saying we don't need All Age Versions. We just need an option to choose from. Again like our Japanese counterparts. R18 (Full version of the game) or All Age. 

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As for Noraneko mess, like everyone said it's more on Harukaze instead of Fruitbat because Harukaze themselves was the one who decided to release console version instead of 18+ version, and only after they announce their brilliant decision (According to them obviously) they announce that Fruitbat will help the publishing. As for Fruitbat themselves while all of their releases is all age, it's still not their fault in regard of Noraneko censorship because almost all of their releases in the past is all age in the first place. For Moenovel, well unlike Fruitbat they deserve the blame for censoring their own release because it's only subsidiary to Pulltop which mean that basically their publish the overseas release by themselves, so you can blame Pulltop as well for their messed up release for overseas.

In the end, while I understand that the censorship make you understandably bitter about that, I think blaming the companies here (Even if the company deserve it and your wording is beg) is not really helping the VNs got uncensored release and may sounds rude to the company to did their best (I talk about Fruitbat here). I know that the companies were probably reading about this, but seeing that Pulltop still not releasing 18+ VNs for overseas even with a ton of critics thrown to them through Moenovel, safe to say that it's already futile because Pulltop is already firm to their decision with censorship for overseas.

Edited by littleshogun
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On 8/1/2019 at 2:51 PM, Infernoplex said:

Also... Fruitbat is not the one who fucked up Noratoto.

That might be the case, but a better question is, would Fruitbat have even gotten involved in the project (at least publicly) if the release was 18+? So far, Fruitbat hasn't given anything to add a benefit to the doubt, but instead it seems that Fruitbat is doing their darnest to be completely and utterly dissociated with anything 18+.

Look here: https://vndb.org/p2997

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As for that matter, apparently so. The only example that they did that it's Little Busters, in that they didn't translated the sex scenes. It's not much of a big loss anyway seeing that people thing that Little Busters sex scenes is out of place or something like that. Also if Fruitbat are really the one who censored the sex scenes, I'll still blame Harukaze anyway for contacting the company who clearly wouldn't involved in 18+ VNs translation instead of either Mangagamer or JAST (Or to put it in another word Harukaze already decided to censor Noraneko if they ask Fruitbat for publishing help).

PS - I know Eiyuu Senki as well too, but at least it have a justification that they release it for PS3 first (Don't ask me why TENCO decided that though).

Edited by littleshogun
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1 hour ago, littleshogun said:

The only example that they did that it's Little Busters, in that they didn't translated the sex scenes.

Well, KEY's VNs should be all treated as all-ages titles, and their h-scenes are best forgotten. Nothing lost here. Also, they translated Perfect Edition, which was all-ages. And while translation was done by Fruitbat, the publishers of the translated version were KEY themselves.

Edited by adamstan
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9 hours ago, Nier said:

That might be the case, but a better question is, would Fruitbat have even gotten involved in the project (at least publicly) if the release was 18+? So far, Fruitbat hasn't given anything to add a benefit to the doubt, but instead it seems that Fruitbat is doing their darnest to be completely and utterly dissociated with anything 18+.

Look here: https://vndb.org/p2997

They likely wouldn't have gotten involved if Harukaze wanted to do the 18+ release. But that's beside the point. You still can't blame Fruitbat for the censoring as it wasn't them who decided that the localized version will be the one based on the console release. It's true that Fruitbat mostly deals with all-ages doujin VNs (and some other games like that one with tanks and that Orange Juice game, if I recall correctly now), and by their localization pattern, yes, we can assume that they likely wouldn't have had anything to do with Noratoto had Harukaze decided to do the 18+ release instead.

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17 hours ago, adamstan said:

Well, KEY's VNs should be all treated as all-ages titles, and their h-scenes are best forgotten. Nothing lost here. Also, they translated Perfect Edition, which was all-ages. And while translation was done by Fruitbat, the publishers of the translated version were KEY themselves.

I personally disagree with that statement. Again, I don't really like the H-scenes that much, but having a part og the game taking away is essentially taking away our full experience. It was made like that so why take it away? All age version. Yes. But leave us an option for the r18 version.

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KEY VNs are really special in this regard - they are much better in all-ages version, since H-scenes were so horrible and out of place that they were actually detracting from experience. They weren't making "full experience", they were tacked-on.

1 hour ago, KingDragoYT said:

taking away our full experience.

Such statements sound a bit like obsession or paranoia to me. "I don't care if it makes VN better or not, gimme my porn, you bastards!"

IMO It should be treated on case-by-case basis, not with such broad approach.

1 hour ago, KingDragoYT said:

It was made like that so why take it away?

Because making it that way was mistake in this case - which KEY seems to implicitly admit, by releasing "Memorial Editions", "Perfect Editions" etc as all-ages versions. And, anyways, knowing what to cut out is essential skill in any creative work ;)

I know it might be hard to believe, but really, sometimes less is more. Why do you deny authors the right to improve their work?

But well, whatever, to each their own porn :P

BTW Little Busters was all-ages title originally. They added h-scenes later, in "Ecstasy" version (together with three side routes). And then they apparently decided, that it wasn't good move, so they removed them again for Memorial Box and Perfect Edition.

Disclaimer: All that rant above is just about KEY (and maybe To Heart, since Leaf also said in some interview that h-scenes in this were tacked-on mistake and PSE edition is definitive one:P)
In case of other VNs I tend to agree that it's best to have both versions available.

Edited by adamstan
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1 hour ago, adamstan said:

KEY VNs are really special in this regard - they are much better in all-ages version, since H-scenes were so horrible and out of place that they were actually detracting from experience. They weren't making "full experience", they were tacked-on.

I don't see anything special/unusual about this description. ;p

Edited by Plk_Lesiak
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14 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

I don't see anything special/unusual about this description. ;p

Well, they were just unusually bad and unfitting. While reading most of the moeges, I wasn't immediately wishing for all-ages version. But when first scene in Kanon came up, I was all like "Fuck it, I'm out. Switching to all-ages version right now." Same with AIR.

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No, yeah, the Kanon H scenes are truly awful. They were actually my first experience with H in a VN, and I was like, god, why is this a thing. And then I think my next experience was F/SN, which only reinforced that view. I had to play one more game with H in it (it ended up being Comyu) before I finally started thinking maybe H scenes weren't so bad after all.

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On 8/9/2019 at 11:36 AM, KingDragoYT said:

I personally disagree with that statement. Again, I don't really like the H-scenes that much, but having a part og the game taking away is essentially taking away our full experience. It was made like that so why take it away? All age version. Yes. But leave us an option for the r18 version.

Well if you really want H-scenes in Little Busters in order to allow the reader to have full experience because it was made like that, I think you can do it. In fact, I would say that if KEY wouldn't give us the choice then perhaps you can give us the choice for that and maybe some of KEY fans would be very thankful for what you do. I mean we have Konosora and Maitetsu restoration project, so it shouldn't be impossible for you to have Little Busters restored the sex scenes and of course translated those scenes by yourself. Good luck if you attempt that later.

Edited by littleshogun
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