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Funyarinpa

I'm leaving Fuwanovel, because I'm starting to realize that this community and the VN community at large has hurt me.

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2 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

I think you're thinking about Funya's post. I only argued that I don't completely agree they're similar, as I think sexual stuff influences us on a slightly deeper level and, on average, have more of an effect on our lives and behaviour than most other things we get from media. It should be quite easy to substitute violent video game with some other entertainment in all but most extrene cases, but if you develop a strong sexual fetish...

The thing is, can you really develop a sexual fetish by being exposed to it? I feel like this is chain has just way too many dubious steps:

Exposure of fetish in fiction->getting aroused by that fetish in a fictional setting->getting aroused by that fetish in real life->commiting a crime

I can only logically connect the last two, and even that's only in some cases, as even people who actually fantasize about commiting crimes in real life wouldn't actually do it for several reasons: empathy for real people's suffering, fear towards the law, fear of being ostracized by society...

And honestly, connecting the first three together just seems impossible for me. I could be exposed to all the loli rape in the land of the rising sun and I still wouldn't enjoy it in the least. Do you think you would? 

12 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

In general, you don't need to convince me of this stuff, even if I'd be more wary of the influence extreme porn has on people, I don't think the proofs of that influence are solid enough to justify bans, especially considering how poorly those work most of the time. The real challenge is spreading this awereness to the sea of normies that surround us, with torches and pitchforks ready at slightest sign of "peadophilia". I don't think that will happen any time soon and we as VN fans have to take that into account, whether we like it or not. :>

Yeah I know. I'm not really trying to convince you of anything :P It's just that I know we think somewhat differently and I'm trying to gently prod you to find a point of disagreement in order see if my opinion is biased in some way I wasn't aware of.

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I've been playing VNs for 20 years now and am the oldest active member on the forum. Most people consider my tastes boring despite that since I generally stick to moege and charage, and fairly vanilla in my taste spectrum for H content as well. I have this in my fan translator registration post:

On 17/08/2015 at 3:07 PM, ittaku said:

7) Conditions* (any additional conditions, under which you will or won't work): Lots of conditions, see below.

Absolutely no rape, torture, humiliation, disgrace, loli, dark themes, violence. Don't like utsuge nor excessive drama either.

Note the exclusion of a lot of thematic material which the OP found adversely affected him. I've simply learnt to avoid any games with them in them, avoided discussing such games on the forum, avoided discussing the thematic material on the forum, and politely refused to translate anything with those in them.  If I were to allow my distaste of those to alter my ability to enjoy playing VNs or discussing the aspects I do enjoy about VNs on this forum and elsewhere, I would be missing out on something I derive great pleasure from. I do, however, have great objection to most forms of censorship which is why I'm happy to simply tolerate its existence but don't feel obliged to debate the issues. I also do not believe the existence of such thematic material has changed my value system either, but I was not 15 when I started playing VNs, so I cannot say outright that it would not have affected me so at the time. Nonetheless, I think you're doing yourself a disservice -- if it's a medium and community you otherwise enjoy -- to break off completely. You've developed your own value system and now it's time to apply it without feeling guilt or remorse about it, but to work with the aspects you still enjoy. If your love of the art form has disappeared entirely, then that's a totally different issue, but that doesn't seem to be the issue so much as guilt from thematic material that is often associated with the art form. If you feel you are unable to dissociate the two then that's your decision.

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Now this... This is the Fuwanovel I remember; complete and utter garbage. I missed it. Thank you all for bringing it back to me so I remember why I stopped interacting with the VN community in general :) this thread has it all and I hope it stays up as a testament to how god damn stupid the VN community is :scottsune:

Hopefully Tay deletes this site soon. 

 

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Edited by Dark_blade64

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7 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Exposure of fetish in fiction->getting aroused by that fetish in a fictional setting->getting aroused by that fetish in real life->commiting a crime

I can only logically connect the last two, and even that's only in some cases, as even people who actually fantasize about commiting crimes in real life wouldn't actually do it for several reasons: empathy for real people's suffering, fear towards the law, fear of being ostracized by society...

And honestly, connecting the first three together just seems impossible for me. I could be exposed to all the loli rape in the land of the rising sun and I still wouldn't enjoy it in the least. Do you think you would? 

Well, the problem with this type of argument is that we can basically talk about our own experiences. I personally don't find this sequence so improbable that it would never happen, but each stage will definitely eliminate a very big proportion of all people exposed. From my personal experience I can say that I did discover some of my niche fetishes through the Japanese media. They most likely existed even before and weren't directly caused by it, but I'm pretty sure I would never even realized I even had them otherwise. The only real answer to this problem could be given by conclusive and verified scientific research, but that would be very difficult to conduct. And even if it turns out that there is a very small possibility that a very small minority of all people exposed to this type of fiction will actually conduct crimes, should it really be banned just for that? It always comes down to our personal political and moral beliefs, but that's just too subjective to argue about.

I'd say, the most comfortable solution for me personally would be if the most hardcore lolicon stuff remains illegal while everything else is legal, but I definitely don't hold this belief strongly enough to try to persuade other people in it.

PS. Also, minors are definitely more likely to have their beliefs and morality affected by this kind of fiction, but, you know, the 18+ label is there for a reason.

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20 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

I'd say, the most comfortable solution for me personally would be if the most hardcore lolicon stuff remains illegal while everything else is legal, but I definitely don't hold this belief strongly enough to try to persuade other people in it.

I think a large problem with this is how to define most hardcore lolicon stuff and that opening up that option would open up for the possibility of more censorship even outside of that frame. For instance some might say just focus on things like nukige which features children in elementary school and completely messed up shit, while others would probably say it includes anything with a clearly loli looking character like Nene from Eroge Sex and games makes sexy games or the twins from Imouto Paradise. Then there would also be people who would try to expand this to include any eroge with characters under 18 like VNs with high school setting or any character that looks like they are under 18. While it might seem simple to define a problem area that you feel is worthy of censorship others will have a different idea and once censorship starts it usually spreads to a wider area than intended before it meets backlash. Of course this could potentially be fixed by making very clear defined rules that aren't that much up for interpretation though even in this case there would likely be people making content that is just at the boarder of what these laws would accept that will try to push the envelope.

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3 hours ago, Dark_blade64 said:

And for your guys information the lack activity from the owners and almost zero updates also contributed to the death of this site.

Wow, no shit? Who would've have thought that the site's owner, the only one with access to most of it, going AWOL for literal years and everything but the Forums slowly breaking down would kill a site. I'm sure no one in the community ever noticed that or expressed powerless frustration at the current state of affairs. Thank you enlightening us with your outside perspective. :sachi:

5 hours ago, solidbatman said:

Hopefully Tay deletes this site soon. 

Like we're ever going to get this much initiative from the top. ^^

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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3 hours ago, Dark_blade64 said:

From a very long time you guys were literally scaring people off this site telling them unless it was a visual novel you guys agreed with

Its about a subject that is banned for legal reasons. not us acting "elitist". 

and yea. owner has been gone for years. we dont have access to do things. its been a sinking ship for a long time. 

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4 hours ago, Dreamysyu said:

Well, the problem with this type of argument is that we can basically talk about our own experiences. I personally don't find this sequence so improbable that it would never happen, but each stage will definitely eliminate a very big proportion of all people exposed. From my personal experience I can say that I did discover some of my niche fetishes through the Japanese media. They most likely existed even before and weren't directly caused by it, but I'm pretty sure I would never even realized I even had them otherwise. The only real answer to this problem could be given by conclusive and verified scientific research, but that would be very difficult to conduct. And even if it turns out that there is a very small possibility that a very small minority of all people exposed to this type of fiction will actually conduct crimes, should it really be banned just for that? It always comes down to our personal political and moral beliefs, but that's just too subjective to argue about.

Definitely, even if statistics were shown that people exposed to this kind of content are slightly more likely to commit crimes, I wouldn't advocate for its ban. Though then it could become a matter of whether the ends justify the means. I can see how some people, especially those who don't like that content, might be willing to give it up to prevent a small number of crimes. As for me, unless it had been proven to be a freaking pandemic, I would still defend the right to create, distribute and consume any kind of fiction (obviously among adults).

But you see, that was not even my point. My point was that this is exactly the same as banning violent video games because there might be a chance that some people commit crimes by being exposed to them, which some people in this thread tried to deny, because you know, it's uncool to be so close-minded in the times we live in. But bashing sexual fetishes? That's not only perfectly fine, but also gives you the moral highground! Because obviously anyone who doesn't stick up for fictional women and children are terrible people.

 

Edited by Thyndd

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4 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Definitely, even if statistics were shown that people exposed to this kind of content are slightly more likely to commit crimes, I wouldn't advocate for its ban. Though then it could become a matter of whether the ends justify the means. I can see how some people, especially those who don't like that content, might be willing to give it up to prevent a small number of crimes. As for me, unless it had been proven to be a freaking pandemic, I would still defend the right to create, distribute and consume any kind of fiction (obviously among adults).

But you see, that was not even my point. My point was that this is exactly the same as banning violent video games because there might be a chance that some people commit crimes by being exposed to them, which some people in this thread tried to deny, because you know, it's uncool to be so close-minded in the times we live in. But bashing sexual fetishes? That's not only perfectly fine, but also gives you the moral highground! Because obviously anyone who doesn't stick up for fictional women and children are terrible people.

 

Absolutelly agree. It wouldn't make sense to ban cars because some people is irresponsible and kill others with them. It wouldn't make sense to ban violent games because they make people violent towards others. And it wouldn't make sense to ban some VN content because of whatever.

If the problem is the people we could talk about education or culture or other stuff, but censoring everything is not gonna help reaching a good society.

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On 6/17/2019 at 11:50 AM, Plk_Lesiak said:

Wow, no shit? Who would've have thought that the site's owner, the only one with access to most of it, going AWOL for literal years and everything but the Forums slowly breaking down would kill a site. I'm sure no one in the community ever noticed that or expressed powerless frustration at the current state of affairs. Thank you enlightening us with your outside perspective. :sachi:

Like we're ever going to get this much initiative from the top. ^^

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On 6/17/2019 at 12:28 PM, Emi said:

Its about a subject that is banned for legal reasons. not us acting "elitist". 

and yea. owner has been gone for years. we dont have access to do things. its been a sinking ship for a long time. 

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Edited by Dark_blade64

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22 minutes ago, Dark_blade64 said:

Use sarcasm so much you want, what I'm pointing out things like many from the community being asshole to newcomers might have played a bit of a role too besides the owners not supporting it anymore? Just for the record I have zero knowledge how much have people discussed those things around here now. I started to now and then visit the site, so I'm not doing it regularly like I used too.

I'm usually very nice to newcomers unless they come in just to spew bullshit and teach us how to behave from some imaginary moral highground. Your post had little to do with the topic at hand and was full of obnoxious assumptions and "advice" no one had any interest in. So sorry if I wasn't receptive, but it simply added nothing of value and none of it had anything to do with "elitism", which BTW is less of an issue on Fuwa than in most fan communities I've known over the years.

Plus I guess I'm ill and your post struck exactly into my years-long frustration over the creeping death of this site. But I'm not sorry, really I'm not and you still fail to make a valid point. 

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FOR FUCK SAKE! WHY IS THIS STILL BEING DISCUSSED! :reeee:

 

well, i guess its only fair. i really hate posts about one thing and drops some sort of "objective" view and we're not expected to go off topic even though its more the original posters fault.

 

"You know guys, I do like Amane's route from Grisaia no kajitsu but I felt something was missing during it that couldve made it better. Anyone you likes Makina touch children in real life. But back on to the main topic, yeah maybe it couldve benefited from being shorter and more focused."

 

yes, him calling people who like loli content pedophiles struck a nerve with me because i do happen to like loli content. cant really provide hard evidence of me not looking at real life children like that aside from just stating that i dont so take that as you will but broad generalizations of people with certain interests is close minded. 

 

take furries for example. lately ive been exposed to some of the weird and awful stuff they do but i cant imagine all of them are like that, right? ....r-right, guys? :kosame: please say it aint so!

Edited by mitchhamilton

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On 6/17/2019 at 9:12 PM, Plk_Lesiak said:

I'm usually very nice to newcomers unless they come in just to spew bullshit and teach us how to behave from some imaginary moral highground. Your post had little to do with the topic at hand and was full of obnoxious assumptions and "advice" no one had any interest in. So sorry if I wasn't receptive, but it simply added nothing of value and none of it had anything to do with "elitism", which BTW is less of an issue on Fuwa than in most fan communities I've known over the years.

Plus I guess I'm ill and your post struck exactly into my years-long frustration over the creeping death of this site. But I'm not sorry, really I'm not and you still fail to make a valid point. 

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Edited by Dark_blade64

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On 6/17/2019 at 10:01 PM, mitchhamilton said:

FOR FUCK SAKE! WHY IS THIS STILL BEING DISCUSSED! :reeee:

 

well, i guess its only fair. i really hate posts about one thing and drops some sort of "objective" view and we're not expected to go off topic even though its more the original posters fault.

 

"You know guys, I do like Amane's route from Grisaia no kajitsu but I felt something was missing during it that couldve made it better. Anyone you likes Makina touch children in real life. But back on to the main topic, yeah maybe it couldve benefited from being shorter and more focused."

 

yes, him calling people who like loli content pedophiles struck a nerve with me because i do happen to like loli content. cant really provide hard evidence of me not looking at real life children like that aside from just stating that i dont so take that as you will but broad generalizations of people with certain interests is close minded. 

 

take furries for example. lately ive been exposed to some of the weird and awful stuff they do but i cant imagine all of them are like that, right? ....r-right, guys? :kosame: please say it aint so!

Spoiler

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Edited by Dark_blade64

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Sure, I'll bite; a certain somebody mentioned this thread popping up the other day.

It really has been 6 years hasn't it. What a journey. As for your comment, don't worry about it. Maybe @solidbatman and I will do a VN steam sometime in the near future for old time sake to show the new blood what entertainment is all about (no promises on that).

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2 minutes ago, OriginalRen said:

Sure, I'll bite; a certain somebody mentioned this thread popping up the other day.

It really has been 6 years hasn't it. What a journey. As for your comment, don't worry about it. Maybe @solidbatman and I will do a VN steam sometime in the near future for old time sake to show the new blood what entertainment is all about (no promises on that).

"Entertainment" :ren:

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