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A question to those who read untranslated Japanese VNs


AustriaVNFan

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  • I started learning it cause I got really pissed off with some things about Nonary games' translations.
  • I learned kana a few years earlier and read Tae Kim's grammar guide before starting.
  • My first untranslated VN was koisora and it felt like bashing a head against a wall. Slowly, but surely parts of it go off, yet still frustrating as hell. It did feel rewarding though. With how often I stalled it and my reading speed it took me about half a year. Wouldn't take more than a few weeks now.
  • I used ithvnr with rikaisama starting up, but it doesn't hook most of the VNs I play, so I managed to do without. Have to check a word with a dictionary every now and then and less often search on a word I don't know the pronunciation of. Looking up new kanji with radicals can be difficult.
  • I still struggle with figuring out the subject in some sentences. Seems to be the most difficult thing with Japanese.
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10 hours ago, kivandopulus said:

A chauvinist approach again. I understand 99.9% of the Japanese text I read with machine translation + voice audition. I've seen such chauvinists in the past who say they'd read other reviews I collected (even reviews from densetsu), but not mine, since supposedly everyone else is 100% pro in Japanese. I'll definitely see more such people in the future. Good luck finding native Japanese to write reviews for you or writing them yourself after you learn language at 100%.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable or ‘chauvinistic’ for me to expect the reviewers I read to have a certain level of reading comprehension for the VNs that they review, and frankly MTL just doesn’t meet that level yet.

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1 hour ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

You don’t even understand the basics of language or writing, how would you understand 99.9% of what you read

Preliminary suggestion. I studied grammar extensively. I speak three foreign languages, and thanks to that I pick up vocabulary easily. I've no problem reading and understanding words in kana. All I miss is majority of kanji. But I'm sure that even with full kanji knowledge I would not be able to read walls of text in split second like I do in English, so I'd keep using machine translation for the sheer convenience. Visual novels have too much water that should be avoided, and dialogues bear almost all significant information. But if criticizing and suggesting nothing instead is your way, I won't waste my breath anymore.

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59 minutes ago, kivandopulus said:

Visual novels have too much water that should be avoided, and dialogues bear almost all significant information.

Just read a plot summary then lmao

1 hour ago, kivandopulus said:

Preliminary suggestion.

What’re you suggesting and what’s it coming before? Reading a dictionary or a thesaurus for big words isn’t “picking up vocabulary” if you can’t use those big words right.

1 hour ago, kivandopulus said:

I studied grammar extensively.

Doubt it if you think grammar is a trifle

1 hour ago, kivandopulus said:

But if criticizing and suggesting nothing instead is your way, I won't waste my breath anymore.

Okay, then I’ll suggest something: actually learn Japanese lmao

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On 21.2.2019 at 3:40 PM, AustriaVNFan said:
  • Why did you learn Japanese (just because of VNs or do you have Japanese roots or whatever...)?

Mainly because I wanted to read some VN's which were not available in English and also very unlikely to be translated. But I also liked anime before and was always fascinated with Japanese culture.

On 21.2.2019 at 3:40 PM, AustriaVNFan said:
  • How long did you learn Japanese before you started reading VNs in that language?

I think I tried to read my first VN very shortly after starting learning Japanese with some educational books. Reading Japanese VN's is one of the best ways to help learning Japanese since it's much more fun than just dry learning of vocabulary and grammar. I read about two books about grammar and two smaller ones for Hiragana and Katakana. Though I kind of got stuck when learning Kanji. I even tried Heisig's way of learning it, but I'm honestly not a fan of it. It's just unnatural - if I read a sentence I don't have the time rembering two dozen short stories. And humans usually recognize entire words and not just single characters. I've also read most of Tae Kim's Japanese Guide, which is pretty good.

On 21.2.2019 at 3:40 PM, AustriaVNFan said:
  • How hard did you find your first few untranslated VNs?

I think my first VN was Kiriya no Roku Shimai and it was easier than expected since it used very clear language. (Besides simple nukiges) I find plot based VN's the most easy to read since they often use very clear language. Ironically, comedy and slice of life VN's are often way harder since they like to 'play' with the language itself.

On 21.2.2019 at 3:40 PM, AustriaVNFan said:
  • Do you use text hookers or similar tools to read the VNs or can you read them with just seeing the text?

Yeah, I'm using a text hooker, mainly because of the damn kanji, not so much because of the grammar. Usually I iterate between translating the Japanese text myself and reading the translated text. For the former, I only use the translations of the kanji compounds I don't know myself from the translator. It's slower and exhausting but more precise. If I get too exhausted, I switch to just reading the translated text. If certain parts get too far off the track, I revert back to translating myself.

On 21.2.2019 at 3:40 PM, AustriaVNFan said:
  • Any other interesting info on that topic?

To be honest, in the last few years my Japanese was probably more stagnating than improving. Most stuff I really wanted to read I've already read and I've also been disappointed too often to believe in kamiges anymore - there are just more or less flawed VN's. Though, I guess it's just a natural process to get a bit burned out after reading VN's for years.

Edited by ChaosRaven
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If I may, let me share my current experience - I think this would be proper thread, as it's less about VN, and more about the process of reading.

Currently I'm reading ToHeart PSE for about a week. I'm using Textractor + Chiitrans for looking up unknown words (with furigana switched off ;)). First two or three days were rather slow and exhausting, but now it got pretty smooth - not much slower than when reading translated ones (but I have to admit I don't rush through them, always listening to the voices etc). I started to get used to characters' speech patterns, remember some of the new words that reappear often etc. It's actually really amazing feeling - and it got me by surprise. While there is still odd sentence here and there that flies over my head, I got pretty comfortable with this VN.

Of course, there's possibility that I'm just at easy segment of script ;)

But, contrary to what some people are claiming, apparently you don't have to study for 5+ years to be able to read untranslated VNs without relying on MTL and have fun with it :D 

Also, I found "Dictionary of basic japanese grammar" really helpful, as an addition to other resources.

 

Edited by adamstan
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