[project] Sakura no Kisetsu Ren'py remake project

[adamstan 632]

Lining up matching lines is finished. Now I have to arrange them in the correct order and delete those that are not used in ported version - in other words, those that made sense only in the "gameplay" format.

I think I'll resume work after I finish reading ToHeart

[adamstan 632]

[semi-OT]

It looks that JAST is officially releasing Asenheim's web-ports on their page:
https://jastusa.com/classic-game-archive/

https://retro.jastusa.com/season-of-the-sakura/

Interesting... I wonder what that means to this little project of mine - maybe it would be then possible to forward it to JAST too? That is, if it ever gets completed

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by adamstan

[adamstan 632]

I exported dialogues from my current ren'py version, and started to line up original lines in the same order - as a preparation for retranslation. (So I'm basically rearranging the spreadsheet containing JP and EN lines side by side that you've seen earlier in this thread)

[adamstan 632]

Little progress report about this preparation work - I've done seven chapters so far (in terms of line count, that would be about 45-50%).

While doing this, I'm still discovering some new mistranslations/rewrites. The one pictured above will probably require reordering of dialogues - if Meimi is currently chatting with Kyouko, it makes no sense for Kyouko to approach MC the very next second, so I'll have to move that bit somewhere earlier. (Or insert universal "............................................." line inbetween )

*Originally all of this were responses for Look/Talk commands, so the order was dependent on player's choices. While doing my port, I decided on the order of these scenes relying only on translated script - thus some incosistencies are inevitably coming out when attempting retranslation.

Edited April 10, 2019 by adamstan

[adamstan 632]

Aaaand - done. All scripts put together and ready for retranslation and editing:

[adamstan 632]

So, I started slooow work on the text - as you can see, last progress meter in my signature went up from 0%. It will take some time, that's for sure. I think I can handle first pass^*, but I will definitely need TLC and editor for this project to make it into something readable.

^*I'm not retranslating everything from scratch, but rather fixing JAST's translation and filling in the blanks. However that's for now - nobody knows how will it end

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by adamstan

[Ramaladni 137]

Well, I didn't want to be that guy, but I felt I should say something given that this has gotten nothing but positive comments and no real criticism, good or bad, so far.

I'm sorry, but I just can't like this. You're taking a perfectly fine game and porting it to Ren'py while destroying everything unique about it, I just find this to be disrespectful to the original work.

Fixing misTLs and translating what was left untranslated? Sure, I'd say that's awesome. This game was translated 23 years ago, there were different standards back then, JAST was just starting out and perhaps not the most qualified team was working on it, but this was literally one of the first steps for translated eroge. While it totally wouldn't be good enough nowadays, I think it's wrong to hate on the translation or a few rewrites. I see it as a as something left behind from JAST's humble beginnings. Fixing the names is pretty cool, considering the furigana was given for the names, I can only imagine that the translator had to rush to meet deadlines or that this project itself was a risky bet from the Japanese developers (so the priority was speed).

Adding alternate tracks, mosaic toggle and such are all cool bonuses and that's what they should be - nothing more, nothing less. I like fiddling with these options myself, so I'm sure most people will find it to be a warm welcome. Maybe people would appreciate something like a JP/EN language toggle if that is even possible, but sounds like too much work.

Adding CGs or tachi-e from other games that don't even have anything to do with Sakura no Kisetsu or Tiare makes no absolute sense. It'd be a completely different story if they were unused assets, but they weren't there to begin with, and they don't fit in there. I mean, I've seen similar projects that make bold choices, but they always keep it optional. Just think what a mess translation projects would be if people did just whatever they wanted.

You also took the original, beautiful pixel art and uh...smoothened it out, or whatever you may call it, and completely destroyed it. At the end of the day, this is an originally PC-98 game and should be reminded as such. This is not to say that the JAST Memorial Edition is good either. In fact, it looks horrible, mostly because of the "blurry background" window border that makes it hard to look at, that and the font. Meanwhile the DOS version still exists (but it's not being sold anymore? not sure) and is perfectly playable on DOSBOX, even on fullscreen. So, why?

And finally, the gameplay. Personally, I hate verb-based gameplay, even more so the kind where you have to pixel hunt to get to the next scene. But I think above anything else, it's wrong to remove a fundamental part of this game, turning it into something it wasn't. Playing Sakura no Kisetsu with verb-based gameplay might be a bit annoying in 2019, now that we're used to other types of gameplay, but by removing it, would we truly be playing Sakura no Kisetsu? I think not really.

 

Just to make this clear, I don't think this is "awful". Fixing the text and giving the game a better treatment than it could've afforded to have at the time is great, and I wish the same could be done for older games that have an awful translation, such as Divi-dead. I really dislike what you've done with the art, even more so considering how out of place the pixel art character sprites feel, but maybe it'd be possible to include an option to keep the original pixel art, just like Memorial Edition does (at least that's what it says). I'm sure you are passionate about this project and deeply care about it, or else you wouldn't have put so much effort into it - something the regular user wouldn't be able to, unless they were adequately skilled and/or were extremely dedicated. I just think this is bad in terms of concept - you mocked JAST's message of wanting to preserve the original as much as possible, but you're doing quite the opposite based solely on whims, is how I feel. Anyway, this is just my opinion - feel free to do as you wish. However, I'm pretty sure this isn't very legal, considering JAST is still selling this game, but that's up to them to take action.

I hope that my feedback, even the negative parts can be of help to you. Cheers.

[adamstan 632]

5 hours ago, Ramaladni said:

I hope that my feedback, even the negative parts can be of help to you. Cheers.

Thanks. Criticism is much needed for any project. Actually I agree with some of your points.

5 hours ago, Ramaladni said:

Adding CGs or tachi-e from other games that don't even have anything to do with Sakura no Kisetsu or Tiare makes no absolute sense.

I agree, and I didn't do that. It is wrong to say that these games have nothing to do with Sakura no Kisetsu or Tiare, as they all SHARE many of the assets (backgrounds and tachie) done by the same artists. Looking just at the screenshots one could even be forgiven to think that they all have same setting. So in some way, those pictures are kind of "unused assets" - they definitely come from the same "pool". If they were completely unrelated I would have never used them.

And I haven't added that much - just few backgrounds from residential districts, so scenes outside girls' houses would hapen truly outside the house, and not on one generic street background used over and over, and train station. All those just appear briefly in few scenes.

5 hours ago, Ramaladni said:

You also took the original, beautiful pixel art and uh...smoothened it out, or whatever you may call it, and completely destroyed it.

5 hours ago, Ramaladni said:

This is not to say that the JAST Memorial Edition is good either. In fact, it looks horrible, mostly because of the "blurry background" window border that makes it hard to look at, that and the font.

Do you feel that way? If so, thats exactly opposite of what I aimed for I wanted to do as little smoothing etc as possible, and to preserve original pixel art character. I explicitly wanted to avoid the "Memorial Edition look". Seems that I've failed at that... Using original versions or adding them as an option is certainly a possibility I will look into. Actually I'm not fully satisfied with current look either.

5 hours ago, Ramaladni said:

Meanwhile the DOS version still exists (but it's not being sold anymore? not sure) and is perfectly playable on DOSBOX, even on fullscreen. So, why?

I actually played DOS version, and I ejoyed it, indeed. I am used to adventure games. But in this case that system often felt as a chore and distraction - having to click "talk" > "look" > "think" many times while figuring correct order just to read whole scene isn't good for VN. Especially since anyways you HAVE to read it all to progress to next scene.

So I was just curious, if it would be possible to remake it in a "modern VN" format. I just don't think that actually the gameplay system should be considered main feature of this VN, or what makes it unique. I liked it because of the characters, story, art and music. The system, well... it just was there...

Also, currently Asenheims web version is playable for free directly from JAST site (including original and Memorial Edition gfx) - so anyone can still enjoy it in close to original form too.

5 hours ago, Ramaladni said:

Maybe people would appreciate something like a JP/EN language toggle if that is even possible, but sounds like too much work.

I'd like to do it if possible as well.

Unfortunately, AFAIK it isn't possible for me to insert new translation into DOS or PC98 version. While there's a tool to decompile scripts, I'm not aware of a recompiler. And coding all that adv-gameplay system with ren'py would be suicidal mission, at least for me...

I'm sorry that you feel like my project is disrespectful towards the original, as I feel exactly opposite, but well, there's nothing we can do about this...

Anyway, thanks again for your feedback.

 

But certainly, I shouldn't call it a port - it's more of a remake. Will update text in signature...

Edited April 18, 2019 by adamstan

[adamstan 632]

So, that's how it would look like without smoothing, in all its pixel glory:

What do you think, guys? I actually like it, and will probably make it default style, with smoothed images as an option.

Edited April 19, 2019 by adamstan

[adamstan 632]

It was long way around, but, after all, I came to the conclusion - screw all that smoothing. Pixels FTW. It feels a bit of a waste to discard many hours of work, but since I cannot get fully satisfying results, and they take up ~15x more space than pixel versions (literally - smoothed images set in png format is ~200MB, while 16 color ones are ~12MB) - I think it's reasonable to abandon them.

As for progress report - I'm slowly making my way through text.

Edited April 26, 2019 by adamstan

[adamstan 632]

I'd like to chime in and say, that the project isn't dead yet I'm slowly working on "retranslation". Today I have to ask for some TL advice/help, because one fragment is puzzling me a bit.

Quote

・・・しかし吉田って、結構胸あるんだな。服着てるときはわかんなかったけど。
これが世に言う「着痩せするタイプ」って奴か？西野さんくらいはあるぞ、少なくとも。
・・・・・・・・・
んなとこ見てるよりも、迅速に解決しなければならない問題があるよ〜な気がするぞ。すっごく。

Context/scene - MC was taking home drunken Seia, who hit her head, and suddenly she started to sleepwalk just in her panties. First two lines are obvious - he's admiring her chest However, official translation for the last (bolded) line reads:

Quote

Looking at her is giving me a raging hard-on.

Literal translation would be something like (my current attempt):

Quote

I feel like there's a great problem that must be solved quickly, instead of looking.

So now, my question is - is there some idiom/slang thing or attempt at humour^* I'm not aware of (that すっごく thing at the end seems to be hinting at that), or was it just typical 90's eroge mistranslation?

 

^*Y'know, something like "If I don't do something quickly instead of just looking, I feel like another problem may arise "

Edited August 6, 2019 by adamstan

[adamstan 632]

Well, whatever, guess I'll leave that up to the editor (if I ever manage to get to that stage with this project  )

For now I want to say, that I just finished 5th chapter (some retranslation, and translating the lines missing from official TL), which makes roughly 25% of the whole text.

Edited September 30, 2019 by adamstan

[adamstan 632]

The last update was really some time ago... Well, the project isn't dead, but going at rather slow pace. However right now I don't have much confidence if I should really be doing it...

Nevertheless, today I had some time, and I made some progress. As for now, today I finished 7th chapter and started 8th. That makes it ~44%.

[Plk_Lesiak 2,202]

Sorry for asking for something that could only make you more miserable, but do you think it would be possible to make pixel smoothing a toggle? While the purists complained, I actually liked the smoothed version of the graphics a lot, and this could possibly make everyone happy... Outside of the person having to program it all in.  

[adamstan 632]

Yeah, I guess it would be possible. Main downside is that smoothed images take up to about 10x more space than the original 16 color ones, so it would increase the filesize of the whole package significantly. (Not ten times, since music also takes up significant space, so it would be more like a double - going from ~200MB to ~400MB) But it can be done - luckily I haven't deleted those smoothed versions yet

Edited December 13, 2019 by adamstan

[Plk_Lesiak 2,202]

2 hours ago, adamstan said:

Yeah, I guess it would be possible. Main downside is that smoothed images take up to about 10x more space than the original 16 color ones, so it would increase the filesize of the whole package significantly. (Not ten times, since music also takes up significant space, so it would be more like a double - going from ~200MB to ~400MB) But it can be done - luckily I haven't deleted those smoothed versions yet

400MB still sounds pretty reasonable. Well, it's still just a loose suggestion from someone who can't contribute anything meaningful to the project. I was just a little bugged out by the fact that the purist position of "changing anything is sacrilege" was the only present in the thread.

[adamstan 632]

19 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

someone who can't contribute anything meaningful to the project.

Actually, I was (and still am) hoping that you could become an editor for this, once I finish current work (meaning re-TL and filling the gaps).

19 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

I was just a little bugged out by the fact that the purist position of "changing anything is sacrilege" was the only present in the thread.

That's okay. I also wasn't entirely satisfied with those smoothed images look, so it wasn't big problem to let them go, but if there's someone who likes them, I see no harm in including them as well as an option

Edited December 13, 2019 by adamstan

[Plk_Lesiak 2,202]

1 hour ago, adamstan said:

Actually, I was (and still am) hoping that you could become an editor for this, once I finish current work (meaning re-TL and filling the gaps).

Well, I definitely won't say no. But I hope you won't regret it later...

[adamstan 632]

So, today I found some time to work on this thing, and thanks to that I've gotten past the first half of the script

Next opportunity will be, I think, after Feb 17.

[adamstan 632]

On 6.02.2020 at 2:35 PM, adamstan said:

Next opportunity will be, I think, after Feb 17.

Well, it took muuuuch longer, but today I found a bit of time again, and managed to do another few lines, bringing the progress counter to the 51% So I'm happy to report, that the project still isn't dead (it just smells funny )

Edited April 17, 2020 by adamstan

[adamstan 632]

Today I found a funny one. It turns out that there was a Captain Tsubasa reference during the sports festival in chapter 8

Spoiler

 

よし、絶妙のパスがきた！流石は御々空唾差先輩！
(Yes! I just received a perfect pass! As expected from Oozora Tsubasa senpai!)

Sadly, official TL disregarded this, turning it into bland "I had the ball! Just a little further!".

 

Of course I'm putting that reference back in

Edited April 20, 2020 by adamstan

[adamstan 632]

I think it's a good place for another progress report. I just reached the end of Chapter 8. That means I crossed the 10k lines mark, and it brings the progress counter to the 66%.

[adamstan 632]

Today I just finished Chapter 9 (Christmas one), so we're now at 73%. There are three more to go - New Year onsen trip, Valentine's Day and endings. By the way, the chapters are as follows:

Spoiler

 

(These are original title images - I merged the text from JP and EN versions together)

[adamstan 632]

Recently I have trouble either reading VNs or translating (I'm awfully sleepy most of the time, probably due to the weather changes and the fact that now my job starts on 6 instead of 7, so I have to get up at 4:40), but I'm still going little by little. Today I finished Chapter 10 (New Year onsen trip), reaching 82% mark.

Edited May 26, 2020 by adamstan