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[project] Rewriting Sakura no Kisetsu into "standard" VN structure

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For me, Sakura no Kisetsu is a classic. However, it's a bit unapproachable now, with old engine and awkward adventure-gameplay system - which is much more annoying than, say, YU-NO. As I wrote recently in recommendations thread:

On 6.01.2019 at 6:35 PM, adamstan said:

But it's very tedious without walkthrough. Sometimes I think that it would be nice to port it to Ren'py, throwing out all that adventure-gameplay-mechanic, and converting it into standard choice system.

 

Well, sometimes I do things on a whim, and shortly after writing the above, I decided to give it a try ;) Actually it's quite fun for now - writing things in Ren'py is almost like directing your own puppet-show :D.

The goal is to rewrite Sakura no Kisetsu into standard VN structure with branching choices system - getting rid of the "look/think/talk with everything to trigger next scene" system. I do this by arranging texts from various "think" "look" and "talk" sections into the order that gives the best flow (and inserting small connecting bits in between where absolutely neccessary). I also plan to re-edit it or partially retranslate the lines that annoy me too much  :P

As I see, Brazilian Portugese translation uses similar approach, but they used assets (graphics and music) from the remake, which I'm not too fond of - they are very blurry, while the pixels from dithering are still very visible, so it's like the worst of both worlds ;). I'm working with assets from PC98 and DOS versions. I also plan to have switchable soundtrack, with all three versions available:  PC98 - original FM soundtrack, GS - PC98 MIDI music replayed with SoundCanvas soundfont and AdLib - PC DOS version FM soundtrack.

While browsing graphic files extracted from both versions I was surprised. I expected Japanese PC98 version to have mosaics (and if such were the case, planned to have mosaics on/off switch in the options), however, the version that is floating around the net is uncensored. Probably somebody hacked files with HCGs from English PC version into it? Graphics and scripts formats are identical between two versions, only music files are different because of different sound hardware.

I looked at files more closely and yes, it seems that some CG files were replaced - while all graphic files from PC98 have 1996-04 dates, HCGs have 1999-10.

For now I have ported first two scenes - talk with parents in Shuuji's home and first meeting with Reiko on the way to school - complete with music and sprites with facial animations, just like in the original :) Some preliminary screenshots coming in ~12 hours.

Of course for now it is all pretty basic - just full-screen background and standard ren'py textbox. I'm still not sure whether to go with that approach, or try something more like in the original, with borders etc, and the actual scenes taking just small portion of the screen? Also, I'm still not sure how much smoothing (if any) should I use while converting backgrounds and sprites. But we can discuss that when there are screenshots.

 

*I'm not sure in which subforum should I place it. It's clearly not "Original Visual Novel", it's also not exactly "Translation Project" (although probably some translating will be involved). Well, I hope our mods will help me by moving it into most suited section.

Edited by adamstan

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So, here are screenshots from current state:

pythonw-2019-01-10-19-22-07-731.png

pythonw-2019-01-10-19-22-35-216.png

pythonw-2019-01-10-19-23-19-974.png

I wanted to post a video too, but MSI Afterburner has problems with framerate...

11 hours ago, adamstan said:

While browsing graphic files extracted from both versions I was surprised. I expected Japanese PC98 version to have mosaics (and if such were the case, planned to have mosaics on/off switch in the options), however, the version that is floating around the net is uncensored. Probably somebody hacked files with HCGs from English PC version into it? Graphics and scripts formats are identical between two versions, only music files are different because of different sound hardware.

I looked at files more closely and yes, it seems that some CG files were replaced - while all graphic files from PC98 have 1996-04 dates, HCGs have 1999-10.

I found original censored version too - had to look for FDD images instead of HD images with preinstaled game.

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Yeah, that's clearly madness :D

Now I have important decision to make before proceeding further - which version of character's names to use? I've already restored long vowels, so we have Shuuji, Shouko and Kyouko. But besides that, two heroines' family names use different readings in original and translated versions.

First, there's Kiyomi:
81097.jpg

Her name in kanji is 新藤 清美. Translated version reads her family name as Shinfuji. And indeed, ふじ is most common reading for 藤. However in original version her family name is read as しんどう (Shindou), using on'yomi readings for both kanji.

And then we have Ruri:
81100.jpg

白水 瑠璃. Most obvious reading would be しろみず - Shiromizu, and that's what translated version uses. However, according to original, her family name is read しろず - Shirozu, dropping the み from 水.

Now - which one to use? With Ruri I'm fine either way, but I'm torn about Kiyomi, as I like the sound of "Shinfuji" more :) Also, it then carries direct reference to those pretty flowers:
360px-Wisteria_floribunda5.jpg

But then, original says "Shindou"...

As for other changes to the translation, that I've already made - I restored the setting to high school instead of some weird "Junior College", so principal Saitou is no longer called "Dean" ;) (But I'll avoid directly mentioning characters' ages, just to be safe :P)  While we're at it - DOS translated version had funny contradiction right at the beginning. JAST USA tried to put that "all characters are 18+" disclaimer directly into the story - they actually added whole line saying how the school - "Kotobuki Prep School" in this version - is something that goes between high school and university, and that all students are over eighteen years old, but the previous line, where Shuuji proudly states "I'm Shuuji Yamagami, 16 years old" slipped past the radar :D They corrected that in the "Memorial Collection" Windows version, making him 19 (as high school graduate should be). What I did was removing that added line, but also removing the direct age reference from the previous line, so in my version it is something like

Quote

I'm Shuuji Yamagami. Today begins my new life as a high school student.

BTW - is that second sentence gramatically correct? Shouldn't "begins" be at the end? For some reasons, when I put it there it seems awkward... But as it is, I feel like something is wrong too... I guess, maybe we can treat "Today" as a subject that does the beginning? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ BTW, original line is 俺は山神修司。16才。今日からピカピカ(死語)の高校一年生だ。

Also, I have all music from the PC98 set ready - yesterday I finished cutting wave files and setting up loop points.

Edited by adamstan
why have I spelled "reference" as difference? No idea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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10 hours ago, adamstan said:

Now - which one to use? With Ruri I'm fine either way, but I'm torn about Kiyomi, as I like the sound of "Shinfuji" more :) Also, it then carries direct difference to those pretty flowers:

Shinfuji indeed sounds like a better name than Shindou. That being said... you didn't mention it, but is this VN voiced? If it isn't, you can go with either of the names which sound better. However, if it's voiced, I'd keep their names to how the seiyuu pronounce them.

10 hours ago, adamstan said:

俺は山神修司。16才。今日からピカピカ(死語)の高校一年生だ。

I feel so proud of myself, being able to understand this sentence just fine at my current level of JP xD

10 hours ago, adamstan said:

I'm Shuuji Yamagami. Today begins my new life as a high school student.

I think the JP line held more punch than this, but it's okay. I would just rearrange the order to:

"I'm Shuuji Yamagami. My new life as a high school student begins today." - it sounds more natural to me this way. Can't pinpoint why though xD

That being said, if I had to TL it from scratch, I would have TLed it as:

"I'm Shuuji Yamagami, a sixteen-year old, who just became a high-school student (today)."

死語 - too bad this had to be dropped xD I like how it sounded in Japanese. I guess the MC of this VN tends to joke a lot :D

10 hours ago, adamstan said:

Also, I have all music from the PC98 set ready - yesterday I finished cutting wave files and setting up loop points.

I didn't read this VN yet, but if you do manage to finish this project of yours, I'll be quite interested in checking it out :)

Edited by Infernoplex

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25 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

is this VN voiced?

No, unvoiced. Only music. (Maybe I'll add some sound effects if I find some decent samples) After all, it's ancient - 1996 - and was released on five floppies ;)

25 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

"I'm Shuuji Yamagami. My new life as a high school student begins today."

Yep, that sounds good, thanks. I think that I got too fixed on japanese sentence structure  with "today" ( 今日 ) at the beginning.

25 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

死語 - too bad this had to be dropped xD

Haha, yes, I was surprised when I saw it - but have no idea how to convey it in a neat way. If I understand correctly, he uses old-fashioned word for "new" - ピカピカ - and then notes to himself that nobody speaks that way anymore, right?

BTW - original translation from 1996 is like this (the second line containing aforementioned adult disclaimer added by translation team):

Quote

"I'm Shuuji Yamagami, sixteen years old.  Today, I start Kotobuki Prep School."
"It's a school that comes in between high school, where students prepare for college. Everyone at our school is over eighteen."

Quite awkward if you ask me ;) It seems that I'll have to check with original text pretty often, in search for possible nuances that could be added.

In the meantime I'm trying to find a way to implement that music mode switch. It isn't as easy as I thought. Surely, adding menu item to switch the variable "musicmode" is trivial, but then it should reload whole table with references to audio files, and restart currently played song with a new one. Hmm... maybe I should leave this for later, and for now concentrate on porting the game itself...

The way it is now, it works, but requires game restart for music change to take effect, as music table is generated only at the initialization phase.

Edited by adamstan

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2 minutes ago, adamstan said:

I think that I got too fixed on japanese sentence structure  with "today" ( 今日 ) at the beginning.

Don't allow yourself to be too fixed on Japanese sentence structure. They have a different way of writing. Once you start reading more JP, you start noticing that even the sentence order isn't like in English (like for example, introducing the fact first, and then the action that caused it). And you probably already know that the order of information present in JP sentences is often in reverse compared to their English counterparts (like how final verbs in JP are usually at the end, while in English they come right after the subject).

10 minutes ago, adamstan said:

No, unvoiced. Only music. (Maybe I'll add some sound effects if I find some decent samples) After all, it's ancient - 1996 - and was released on five floppies ;)

Now that's an old VN right there. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. The art does look MS-DOSish xD

11 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Haha, yes, I was surprised when I saw it - but have no idea how to convey it in a neat way. If I understand correctly, he uses old-fashioned word for "new" - ピカピカ - and then notes to himself that nobody speaks that way anymore, right?

The thing is... ピカピカ is a common "to" adverb (I saw it in some of those 1000 most used Onomatopoeic words in JP). It just means "shiny" (remember Pikachu from Pokemon? :D ). However, it can also denote something being new (as in "a shiny new thing I just bought"). And that's the sense in which it was used there in that line. "I am a brand new, fresh, first year high school student." However, the MC added (死語) after the word, probably as a mild joke (ピカピカ is definitely not an obscure, archaic word that's gotten out of use). I think it's one of those Japanese sarcasm thingies you see from time to time. Someone more experienced would probably be able to explain it better than me.

22 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Quite awkward if you ask me ;)

Yes, it is awkward. It's too stiff and I'd argue it may have been done by a JP native, not an English speaker xD ... However, I am not surprised. VN translations in the 90s were shit. I read Divi-dead, and yeah... that one was quite an experience to read through.

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10 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

Don't allow yourself to be too fixed on Japanese sentence structure. They have a different way of writing. Once you start reading more JP, you start noticing that even the sentence order isn't like in English (like for example, introducing the fact first, and then the action that caused it). And you probably already know that the order of information present in JP sentences is often in reverse compared to their English counterparts (like how final verbs in JP are usually at the end, while in English they come right after the subject).

Yeah, that's right. I guess it was kind of subconscious - for some reasons, even knowing all above, I wanted to have "today" at the beginning, but then shifting verb to the end sounded awkward, while the solution you presented was very simple - shift both verb and "today" to the end, and it sounds good :D

10 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

However, it can also denote something being new (as in "a shiny new thing I just bought"). And that's the sense in which it was used there in that line. "I am a brand new, fresh, first year high school student."

So I got the basic meaning, but the fact that ピカピカ isn't really archaic/old fashioned flew over my head ;)

Hmm... maybe I should make use of that ピカピカ somehow - "I am a shiny, brand new, fresh, first year high school student." :D That would sound pretty funny, a little like an advert ;)

Edited by adamstan

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9 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Hmm... maybe I should make use of that ピカピカ somehow - "I am a shiny, brand new, fresh, first year high school student." :D That would sounds pretty funny, a little like an advert ;)

Literalizing the JP text is never a wise idea xD Always remember that what sounds good in JP doesn't necessarily sound good in English too. But I do agree it sounds funny :) A perfect advert :D

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4 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

Literalizing the JP text is never a wise idea xD

Of course, I wouldn't want to do overly literal TL. I just looked for a way to possibly convey that little joke, and sound less stiff than original TL. Like, maybe then make him say something along "WTF I'm even doing? Hosting a TV show?" instead of that untranslatable "dead language" ( 死語 ) reference? Don't know yet, but let's write down the idea just in case ;)

Edited by adamstan

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4 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Of course, I wouldn't want to do overly literal TL. I just looked for a way to possibly convey that little joke, and sound less stiff than original TL. Like, maybe then make him say something along "WTF I'm doing? Hosting a TV show?" instead of that untranslatable "dead language" ( 死語 ) reference? Don't know yet, but let's write down the idea just in case ;)

Oh, yeah, liberal TLs can find ways to convey ideas and messages like that. I, quite frankly, am not creative enough, hence no solution for that 死語 (in this case, it's a "dead word", as in "obscure word"... call it "word out of fashion").

Edited by Infernoplex

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Today I finished editing backgrounds - upscaling and smoothing. For each image I created one or more smoothed versions, layered them with original, and then mixed them in various proportions by hand (using eraser tool with different settings). The goal was to make them look at least decently in 600p resolution - some were more forgiving, and some thougher. I didn't smooth them completely - after all, there's "pixel" in pixel-art ;) However I think the effect is nice. Here's one image for comparison (it was used in previous screenshots, but I feel this version looks better):

Original (480x296, 16 colors - game ran at 640x400 but interface took much space):
ab-04-1.png

Edited (1066x600):
ab-04-1.png

Now, graphics-wise, there are sprites and CGs left.

Edited by adamstan

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I'm just browsing the script right now, having original and translated version side to side, and the more I look at it, the less I like the translation :P I guess it was kind-of-okay for ancient "adventure game", where bits of text were responses to interactions, but when trying to make it into "proper" VN, it won't do. As we noticed earlier, it's very stiff, and at the same time manages to lose many things - it's neither literal nor good flowing :P Also, there are various instances of "TL-notes" put into narration, where it looks like MC is speaking directly to the player, explaining things. Look at this example below:

Quote

Kiyomi: Oh. Then, how about joining the baseball team?
Shuuji: The baseball team?
Kiyomi: I was in the softball team in junior high.
Shuuji: Really? Is there a girls' baseball team here?
Kiyomi: There is. But I've become manager of the boys' baseball team instead.
(She doesn't mean that she's really the manager of the team....)
(In Japan, girls become 'managers' of boy's sports teams, which means they help out washing uniforms and things like that.)

Kiyomi: It is my dream to go the the national championships with you.

Bolded lines in parentheses were added by TL-team. It sounds weird to me. I think I should cut them out. What do you think?

I guess they'd be okay, if they were in kind of clickable pop-up windows, like in Princess Evangile, but right in the middle of narration they're wrong.

Also, I'm thinking what to do with honorifics etc... Current translation is all over the place with them - they are preserved in some lines, but most of the time just characters' first names are used. OTOH Kyouko-sensei is always addressed as such (or just "sensei"),  but "senpai" when MC talks with Reiko has been removed. Total mess.

So I have to decide what style I want to follow, but that's difficult decision... I see pros and cons of each, but it's hard to choose.

Edited by adamstan

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10 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Bolded lines in parentheses were added by TL-team. It sounds weird to me. I think I should cut them out. What do you think?

I can see why they added those TL notes. I am not entirely against them here, but... isn't there a way to just write her line in another way then that won't require a TL note at all? Say, something like:

Quote

Kiyomi: There is, but I decided to be the laundry manager of the boys's baseball team instead.

As for honorifics...

22 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Also, I'm thinking what to do with honorifics etc... Current translation is all over the place with them - they are preserved in some lines, but most of the time just characters' first names are used. OTOH Kyouko-sensei is always addressed as such (or just "sensei"),  but "senpai" when MC talks with Reiko has been removed. Total mess.

...I just had a long discussion about it with someone a day ago or two. That question is quite problematic, and I don't know how to help you with that. It's a tough question. Considering how I myself am lost about it, I don't think I should be giving you advice on that matter.

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20 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

I can see why they added those TL notes. I am not entirely against them here, but... isn't there a way to just write her line in another way then that won't require a TL note at all? Say, something like:

That's good idea indeed. I'd just like to avoid MC speaking directly to the player. (Again, that's okay and pretty typical for adventure games, but wrong for a VN, IMO). I may also look into the possibility of coding clickable TL-notes, like the abovementioned PE. I think engine would allow to do this.

22 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

I just had a long discussion about it with someone a day ago or two. That question is quite problematic, and I don't know how to help you with that. It's a tough question.

Yep. There were also numerous discussions on this forum - I even engaged in some of them ;) Frankly, I'm not sure which side I'm on now... It's really difficult. I think I currently tend to prefer well done honorific-less translations - when there's too much honorifics, it starts to look awkward and annoy me. OTOH I acknowledge, that doing such version is pretty hard, and requires some serious writing skills. And actually I think I'm not skilled enough to pull it off, so I'll probably go the safe-and-tried weeby way ;) I'm also thinking about "keep them only where they matter" approach. That would mean keeping them in dialogues, especially where character is addressed directly, but delete them from narration/MC inner monologue.

After all, it's ancient game, so maybe it's okay to give it a bit of that "otaku feeling" ;)

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1 minute ago, adamstan said:

I'd just like to avoid MC speaking directly to the player. (Again, that's okay and pretty typical for adventure games, but wrong for a VN, IMO).

Yeah, thinking about this more now, it makes it seem like the MC is breaking the 4th wall, while that may have not been the intention xD ... One thing is to put TL notes outside the narration lines in some .txt or .pdf document (or game's menu and similar - like pop-up notifications), and totally another to directly make it into narration. You're right. It doesn't work well.

3 minutes ago, adamstan said:

I may also look into the possibility of coding clickable TL-notes, like the abovementioned PE. I think engine would allow to do this.

You're really investing yourself and your time into this project :)

4 minutes ago, adamstan said:

OTOH I acknowledge, that doing such version is pretty hard, and requires some serious writing skills. And actually I think I'm not skilled enough to pull it off, so I'll probably go the safe-and-tried weeby way ;)

You read my mind. That's exactly how I feel regarding this stuff too. That's one of the main reasons I didn't want to touch A Sky Full of Stars' honorifics. You need to be seriously creative in writing if you want to do this right (and hopefully don't end up translating "Oniichan" as "Dude" xD). I still don't like how I can hear "Yoshioka" in VA's speech, but in translated lines see "Honoka" instead. However, I decided that it's for the best to leave it like that since it's not too big of a deal.

22 minutes ago, adamstan said:

I'm also thinking about "keep them only where they matter" approach. That would mean keeping them in dialogues, especially where character is addressed directly, but delete them from narration/MC inner monologue.

Yeah, that sounds okay to me. Have in mind, though, that whichever style you pick here should be consistent with the entire script. It's one of the toughest editing jobs to just pay attention and make it all consistent at the end.

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13 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

You're really investing yourself and your time into this project :)

We'll see how long will I be able to keep it up before burning out ;)

Meanwhile, I added side-images for the characters. They are not animated, but have same expressions as main sprites. Also I'm thinking of recycling some assets from other PC98 JAST games from the same era. Not only Meisou Toshi and San Shimai, which got translated, but also Majokko Paradise, Eden no Kaori or Tenshi-tachi no Gogo ~Tenkousei~ seem to be done by the same art team, and share many backgrounds and even some sprites. They almost look like they all have same setting ;) For now, I want to give Rin (the girl we meet at the arcade) a sprite from Meisou Toshi, where she's one of the heroines, and add some locations outside girls' houses instead of that single street that you've seen in the screenshot above. I may also give sprites to some minor characters, like club-recruiters in the prologue etc.

Edited by adamstan

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5 minutes ago, adamstan said:

We'll see how long will I be able to keep it up before burning out ;)

Your worries are real. Even I got burned out a bit from Miazora. By the way, are you still doing Kazoku Keikaku Re-edit Project?

7 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Also I'm thinking of recycling some assets from other PC98 JAST games from the same era...

Not a bad idea. Grabbing assets off those other games from the same devs/artists sounds like a good plan :)

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1 minute ago, Infernoplex said:

By the way, are you still doing Kazoku Keikaku Re-edit Project?

Well, I haven't exactly abandoned it, but, outside of importing it all into spreadsheets and preaparing it for editing, I haven't done any serious work with it yet. TBH I feel a bit overwhelmed by it now.

Edited by adamstan

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29 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Well, I haven't exactly abandoned it, but, outside of importing it all into spreadsheets and preaparing it for editing, I haven't done any serious work with it yet. TBH I feel a bit overwhelmed by it now.

Yeah, I feel you. Doing fanprojects is pretty tiring.

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Spotted this today:

Original:
   鈴子: 講堂はそこの向かって一番の建物よ。
Translation:
  Reiko: The lecture hall is over there, the building on the far right.

Yeah, right... :P:wahaha:

Of course, for the story it doesn't matter if it's left or right, but still...

Edited by adamstan

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9 minutes ago, adamstan said:

  鈴子: 講堂はそこの向かって一番の建物よ。

 

12 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Translation:
  Reiko: The lecture hall is over there, the building on the far right.

Yeah, right... :P:wahaha:

Of course, for the story it doesn't matter if it's left or right, but still...

I am not 100% certain on this one. From my experience, 向 is an odd kanji with some words whose meanings I still don't fully understand. I know it only as "facing (toward something)" and verbs and nouns that go with it seem to carry such and related meanings. In this case, I don't know the positions of the listener and the speaker, and I don't know how they are facing each other and the surroundings. From the point of the speaker, the said bulding could indeed be to the left as it's writtein in the JP line. However, from the perspective of the listener, that could actually be his "right". It could be that's why the TLer wrote it as "right" because when the speaker is explaining, she would use the listener's perception of left/right, not her own.

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They are  on the street, with the school being 200-300m away from them - it's the scene from the prologue when Shuuji bumps into Reiko as he runs to school. So I think that "perspective switch" doesn't occur here - they are still far enough from the school, and probably both facing it, since they're both on their way there. That perspective difference is something which often happens for example with teachers or speakers on the stage, when they say about something "to the right", and there's always a question "my right or your right?", but I don't think it would apply to this conversation on the street. And, of course, in the VN it's almost impossible to determine their exact positions - the scene uses "generic street" background. The line in question actually follows the one from this screen:
pythonw-2019-01-10-19-23-19-974.png

I think that she uses 向かう with the meaning "going/heading towards" (second meaning on jisho) - and then the line would translate "Going that way (towards there - そこの向かって ), it's the leftmost building". So there should be no confusion about POV. And it makes sense when giving directions to someone on the street.

But of course, it's minor and totally irrelevant detail ;) However I think I'll change it to the "left" :P 

Edited by adamstan

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It could be typo, but after seeing this I'll be extra cautious ;) I also found one untranslated part - just romanised:

Quote

Shouko "You love Reiko more than me!"
Shuuji "What?"
Shouko "Shuu-kun.......Shuu-kun no"
Shouko "BAKA!!!!!"

Didn't remember that from my playthrough :D

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