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Hello, Goodbye Steam Storepage Removed

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5 minutes ago, alpacaman said:

There is a middle-schooler heroine. There is no way she is not considered under-age by any court. In Germany (and most of the EU afaik) even just having a CG of her in a "sexualised pose" would constitute child pornography and distribution of such is a felony.

Maybe you start caring about a law as soon as you risk going to prison for breaking it.

A small correction here.
I don't know about the rest of the EU but in germany the pose is not equal child pornography.
The USK consideres it a harmful to minors which is why they refuse the rating and the game can be put on the index by the BPJM which is what happened with the last games that was the case (purchaseing and owning is still completely legal as long as you're 18+), if it were considered a actual child porn there would be a request to the court to decide if the game is needed to be banned.

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If it's because of lolis that they are afraid of possible legal issues, I can understand that. It's stupid af, as drawings are not real people with actual rights, and I always thought it was pretty ironic that it has to be the otaku folks, who supposedly and according to popular belief and clichés can't tell apart the real world from their waifus, who have to explain that to people :leecher:

A drawing has no age, no gender, it's not an animal nor a person. It's a depiction of a person, and any crime against it will therefore be but a depiction of a crime. It makes no sense to have laws that protect the rights of fictional people. Unfortunately the world is a dumb place and such laws do exist. I can't bring myself to blame Steam in that case. 

Edited by Thyndd

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Can someone tell me how certain other games haven't been taken down? I mean  The Ditzy Demons Are in Love With me and Sabbat of the Witch seem to have loli characters or young looking girls, but haven't been taken down.

Also maybe it's because I've watched anime for a long time that I don't really see them as underage. I mean some girls I do see they look too young, but Fureba they looks 18 to me. Is it because I've watched anime for a long time and have just become use to the style?

I do agree that steam is being stupid. They can't seem to make up their minds. Honestly maybe they shouldn't exist if they can't even hold up to their own rules. All this censorship has been sad lately, from Tumblr and now this. I'm not into these things, but I find freedom of expression important. 

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22 minutes ago, aliciarune said:

Also maybe it's because I've watched anime for a long time that I don't really see them as underage. I mean some girls I do see they look too young, but Fureba they looks 18 to me. Is it because I've watched anime for a long time and have just become use to the style?

Probably, I also think the same way. Seems like people not familiar with anime generally think of all characters that don't have clear mature features as children.

 

22 minutes ago, aliciarune said:

Can someone tell me how certain other games haven't been taken down? I mean  The Ditzy Demons Are in Love With me and Sabbat of the Witch seem to have loli characters or young looking girls, but haven't been taken down.

My best bet is that the ones banning VNs from steam just wasn't motivated to spend their time pissing the VN community of at the time and that they now just felt like doing it.

Edited by bakauchuujin

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Just now, bakauchuujin said:

Probably, I also think the same way. Seems like people not familiar with VNs generally think of all characters that don't have clear mature features as children.

 

My best bet is that the ones banning VNs from steam just wasn't motivated to spend their time pissing the VN community of at the time and that they now just felt like doing it.

 Okay, that makes sense. That's for letting me know. And I also agree what you're saying about people not into visual novels. My mom let us watch anime very young and she never saw anime art as something with underage girls, though I admit we watch series like Chrono Crusade and FMA. But I've had people who say I'm weird for liking such an art style, which is sad. Anime style is just another form of art. It's not meant to make girls look underage, that just the style of how they look sometimes. 

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24 minutes ago, sarkasmus said:

A small correction here.
I don't know about the rest of the EU but in germany the pose is not equal child pornography.
The USK consideres it a harmful to minors which is why they refuse the rating and the game can be put on the index by the BPJM which is what happened with the last games that was the case (purchaseing and owning is still completely legal as long as you're 18+), if it were considered a actual child porn there would be a request to the court to decide if the game is needed to be banned.

I looked it up and the child has to be at least partially unclothed for it to be considered child pornography, so you're right.

 

35 minutes ago, LemiusK said:

Maybe I don't have to go to prison in the first place if the lawmakers weren't that narrow-minded - did you think about that? Hm?

Anyway, I don't like your antagonistic attitude either. BLOCKED! LOL

If you want to talk to me, show some basic respect first, the kind of respect that any forum user rightly deserves (well, unless the user is harassing others first like Rabidcanine here lol In my defense, it was self-defense). Otherwise, blocked and ignored. :meguface:

I don't really know how to reply to that, so let's just leave it at that.

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58 minutes ago, aliciarune said:

 

Also maybe it's because I've watched anime for a long time that I don't really see them as underage. I mean some girls I do see they look too young, but Fureba they looks 18 to me. Is it because I've watched anime for a long time and have just become use to the style?

 

I think that's part of it, but I'd say it's less a getting used to and more a (subconscious) habit of comparing media in that artstyle with each other rather than real world examples, making you differ between age differently than you would in real life.

That is if you guess the age by look, which even in real life is something I'd advise against. I've met 60 year olds who look like 30 (one of my former teachers) and knew a 20 year old who looked like 11 (some genetic anomaly, I don't remember the medical term) and on a daily basis I see 20-25 year olds who look like ~14 to me (similar to tha anime/RL comparison a difference in perception, I'm pretty sure asian people would guess their age correctly). But that's what most people do, so they try to apply it on media in different Artstyle.

The other part its that a lot of people who aren't familiar with the Artstyle still have prejudices against it and bacause of that are searching for signs that match their opinion about it and if you search for it you find it, both in fictional media and RL and no matter the topic.
Basically: You see/read/hear what you want to see/read/hear.

Edited by sarkasmus

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Just now, sarkasmus said:

I think that's part of it, but I'd say it's less a getting used to and more a (subconscious) habit of not comparing media in that artstyle with each other than real world examples, making you differ between age differently than you would in real life.

That is if you guess the age by look, which even in real life is something I'd advise against. I've met 60 year olds who look like 30 (one of my former teachers) and knew a 20 year old who looked like 11 (some genetic anomaly, I don't remember the medical term) and on a daily basis I see 20-25 year olds who look like ~14 to me (similar to tha anime/RL comparison a difference in perception, I'm pretty sure asian people would guess their age correctly). But that's what most people do, so they try to apply it on media in different Artstyle.

The other part its that a lot of people who aren't familiar with the Artstyle still have prejudices against it and bacause of that are searching for signs that match their opinion about it and if you search for it you find it, both in fictional media and RL and no matter the topic.
Basically: You see/read/hear what you want to see/read/hear.

Yes, that makes sense. Thank you. I think I'm getting what you're saying. I guess we have to learn to see art style in it's own light and not always compare, maybe. 

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4 hours ago, UnlimitedMoeWorks said:

Sigh... I really didn't want to come back to Fuwanovel after having said my goodbyes but...

This news. THIS FUCKING NEWS, pisses me off! Just when I thought I would jump ship from Sony to Steam, this happens. Now I'm convinced Steam has an anti-anime agenda.

Just why? Why does the west hate the anime medium and anything related to it so much? What has anime ever done to deserve this kind of treatment? I don't even... God, this pisses me off so much that it was enough to bring me back here.

Anti-anime agenda would be ironic since they fcking sell anime as well and a lot of highly rated games are 'anime games' lol

 

Nekonyan should go to mangagamer to publish their stuff, you know at this point it might be pretty profitable for MG to make a platform of  their own instead of just a website

 

Also isnt Sanoba Witch far more 'suggestive' with the main heroine's witch outfit? :pyaa:

Edited by Freestyle80

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7 hours ago, Freestyle80 said:

Also isnt Sanoba Witch far more 'suggestive' with the main heroine's witch outfit? :pyaa:

When has Steam ever been consistent? The issue is most likely linked to either uniforms/ "young looking" heroines, as CherryKiss have released their games uncensored on Steam for a while now with no issues. (As in, no patches, just the full game, porn and all. Though, all of their games so far have offered adult heroines who clearly look grown up, and only one has been located at a school, which was clearly a university.) 

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3 hours ago, TexasDice said:

These two most likely only delete anime games they think nobody would notice disappearing. No deleting Koikuma for example, that made way too much money. 

To be honest, I hadn't even heard of Hello Goodbye's existence prior to this incident. 

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Well, before I was kinda curious whether Sol Press' OniiKiss was going to make it on Steam. I guess now I have my answer. :lol: Speaking of, IIRC Sol Press has only released their titles on Steam - it sounds like they better start investigating other options. It's a good thing Nekonyan already has a history of concurrent releases on JAST/MG.

 

EDIT: NVM, looks like Sol Press sells Sakura Sakura on JAST and is gonna start selling Newrin there too

Edited by Incynerate

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47 minutes ago, Incynerate said:

It's a good thing Nekonyan already has a history of concurrent releases on JAST/MG.

They also have their own storefront.

But it doesn't offer all-ages versions:( - those were/are Steam Exclusives :Pざんねん - +17 version of Sanoba was ideal for my tastes, so I was hoping for similar HGB release :(

Edited by adamstan

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4 hours ago, Incynerate said:

Well, before I was kinda curious whether Sol Press' OniiKiss was going to make it on Steam. I guess now I have my answer. :lol: Speaking of, IIRC Sol Press has only released their titles on Steam - it sounds like they better start investigating other options. It's a good thing Nekonyan already has a history of concurrent releases on JAST/MG.

 

EDIT: NVM, looks like Sol Press sells Sakura Sakura on JAST and is gonna start selling Newrin there too

own plattforms are coming soon as well, both 18+ & all ages.

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7 hours ago, Incynerate said:

Well, before I was kinda curious whether Sol Press' OniiKiss was going to make it on Steam. I guess now I have my answer. :lol: Speaking of, IIRC Sol Press has only released their titles on Steam - it sounds like they better start investigating other options. It's a good thing Nekonyan already has a history of concurrent releases on JAST/MG.

Actually I think there is a chance for it to get through. Steam seems to have no actual policy in effect, as such it just depends on the mood of the ones tasked to look through it. Atm whether VNs get on steam seems to just be based on random chance not really that much about the actual content.

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The vndb page for the game has a very conflicting status for the "loli in question".

https://vndb.org/v5316/chars#chars

It lists Koharu, "loli in question", as a kid in the body type but as being in High School. Whoever said something about her being a middle schooler could you please post your source? As the database says otherwise, her being in high school would offset some of the conflict. 

Really just curious at this point and want to know if she is an actual kid? Judging by the vndb page, I would say that she is not in middle school, although I haven't read it in Japanese(Not that doing so would be very beneficial since I am a beginner in Japanese and am still learning Hiragana atm) so maybe someone here who has can clarify?

 

Anyways, for the main topic, was not surprising to see Valve continue their "Remove VNs" wave that has been in the VN news recently.

I always try to avoid buying VNs on Steam anyways, especially when buying on the translator's website more directly supports them, but really that's just how I do things. To each their own is what I say.

Edited by Naterocks2000

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47 minutes ago, Naterocks2000 said:

The vndb page for the game has a very conflicting status for the "loli in question".

https://vndb.org/v5316/chars#chars

It lists Koharu, "loli in question", as a kid in the body type but as being in High School. Whoever said something about her being a middle schooler could you please post your source? As the database says otherwise, her being in high school would offset some of the conflict.

The description does have the line "a student in Tenshudo's middle school department", but she is indeed tagged as a high schooler so it's kinda inconsistent.

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Just now, ArgentstR said:

The description does have the line "a student in Tenshudo's middle school department", but she is indeed tagged as a high schooler so it's kinda inconsistent.

Checked NekoNyan's website, she is a first year at the same academy the MC is in, therefore high school. 

http://hgb.nekonyansoft.com/

So to clarify, she is not in middle school.

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5 minutes ago, Naterocks2000 said:

Checked NekoNyan's website, she is a first year at the same academy the MC is in, therefore high school. 

http://hgb.nekonyansoft.com/

So to clarify, she is not in middle school.

The vndb description is claimed to be sourced from Nekonyans site but that particular part differs, so I guess Nekonyan might have made a mistake in the description initially and fixed it, but vndb ended up with the unfixed version or something.

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Whatever, for that kind of censorship or laws in some EU countries*, it doesn't make any difference. Under those laws high-schoolers below 18 are as illegal as lolis. But then - banning all-ages version is completely ridiculous.

 

*Actually those laws are pretty disturbing - as I learned recently, when it comes to drawn characters, if (s)he looks young, then it's illegal, regardless of whatever story or author says about their actual age.

That would actually render something like +18 version of, say, SakuSaku illegal here (despite the "all characters are 18" disclaimer). And I naively thought that was only Australia's problem :P

Edited by adamstan

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