Just finished Crescendo....(Spoilers)

[Naterocks2000]

Just finished all the routes and was shocked at how well it holds up even to today's standards.

 

Now about that secret route.

 

Why did they have to have a depressing route for Miyu? I actually teared up after her "Good" ending. Then became frustrated after finding out they cut the actual good ending for her from the game. In that ending, she's declared cancer free and gets well enough to perform at a concert. Her and Ryo get together, then ya know have some intimacy. Why in the world were these scenes never added to the western releases? Instead, they leave in where only he either forgets about her and hears about her passing, or where he realizes he loves her but she's already gone. Man, that was very depressing for me...         (Source was 4chan and VNdb, along with talking to someone who actually read the Japanese version with these scenes)

Edited November 18, 2018 by Naterocks2000

[mitchhamilton]

6 hours ago, Naterocks2000 said:

Just finished all the routes and was shocked at how well it holds up even to today's standards.

 

Now about that secret route.

  Hide contents

Why did they have to have a depressing route for Miyu? I actually teared up after her "Good" ending. Then became frustrated after finding out they cut the actual good ending for her from the game. In that ending, she's declared cancer free and gets well enough to perform at a concert. Her and Ryo get together, then ya know have some intimacy. Why in the world were these scenes never added to the western releases? Instead, they leave in where only he either forgets about her and hears about her passing, or where he realizes he loves her but she's already gone. Man, that was very depressing for me...         (Source was 4chan and VNdb, along with talking to someone who actually read the Japanese version with these scenes)

not only that but im pretty sure they cut out 

Spoiler

after story chapters for every heroine based on cgs not in the game. not sure why they left these out and im not sure why they left out an entire route in Tsuki Possession.

glad you liked it though. one of my favs.  

[Infernoplex]

Regarding Crescendo and Tsuki...

No, they didn't cut anything. G-Collections localized these 2 VNs slightly before their later editions came out. And as per usual in the western VN industry, we never, or very rarely at least, get these later editions updates for the original western localized VNs. So it wasn't "cut", but more like "never updated". Not strange considering VNs were selling even worse back in the day, so there was no incentive to update them at all.

[Rain Spectre]

So basically it was just people being sad about an utsuge ending, and the devs throwing them a bone. 

[Infernoplex]

1 minute ago, Rain Spectre said:

So basically it was just people being sad about an utsuge ending, and the devs throwing them a bone. 

To be honest, I found it to be the best route/ending in the entire VN. The school nurse and the whore had good routes, but weak conclusions. Miyu, on the other hand, had all I wanted from this VN.

[Naterocks2000]

1 hour ago, Rain Spectre said:

So basically it was just people being sad about an utsuge ending, and the devs throwing them a bone. 

No, not really just being sad over an utsuge ending when each heroine got an after story as well. Maybe it wasn't cut from the game but regardless each route end feels kind of abrupt, and I wish someone would have translated the bits themselves but whatever. Moving on to Yume Miru Kusuri.

 

Oh and the other routes were really good honestly. Probably my fave was the school nurse but I think Kaho's was pretty good too.

1 hour ago, Infernoplex said:

Regarding Crescendo and Tsuki...

No, they didn't cut anything. G-Collections localized these 2 VNs slightly before their later editions came out. And as per usual in the western VN industry, we never, or very rarely at least, get these later editions updates for the original western localized VNs. So it wasn't "cut", but more like "never updated". Not strange considering VNs were selling even worse back in the day, so there was no incentive to update them at all.

According to VNDB, the extended scenario version came out three months before the english version(2003-07-25 japanese and the english came out 2003-10-21) so that's why people on the older boards I visited (old meaning from around 2005) said that it was cut so they could just push the game out without translating the extra scenarios. We might never know actually what their reasoning was, but I be happy just with knowing there was a non depressing route for 'her'

Edited November 18, 2018 by Naterocks2000

[Infernoplex]

1 hour ago, Naterocks2000 said:

According to VNDB, the extended scenario version came out three months before the english version(2003-07-25 japanese and the english came out 2003-10-21) so that's why people on the older boards I visited (old meaning from around 2005) said that it was cut so they could just push the game out without translating the extra scenarios. We might never know actually what their reasoning was, but I be happy just with knowing there was a non depressing route for 'her'

That only means that the translation for the game began before the updated edition came out. They probably already made the calculation for the translation costs and so on. Localization on VNs often begins before the final edition of a said VN comes out. For example, where's my updated Kuroinu, MangaGamer? Or my HD Remastered version of Eroge! ? Etc., etc. Sometimes we do get updated editions (like with the forthcoming Kindred Spirits on the Roof ~Full Chorus~), but it always means more localization costs for the company doing it. As I already said... it's very likely that Crescendo and Tsuki failed to sell well enough for G-Collections to consider translating the updated content for them.

[Naterocks2000]

Kuroinu doesn't seem to even be fully translated yet in the first place, therefore maybe the just released content may be added. As for Eroge!, English was released before updated version came out so that one does make sense. While I do realize that the western VN market was very small years ago I still fail to see why G-collections ignored the release that came out before their version they were still working on came out. Yeah translation costs and the like but still. Looking at the old forums I saw that it was pretty popular there so I thought someone would have attempted their own translation but I couldn't find anything. Either way it really is whatever to me, like I said, I am satisfied knowing she had her own happy ending and am moving on to Yume Miru Kusuri.

Heard from someone that this is one of the best he has read and still thinks about it a decade later (Talking about Yume Miru Kusuri btw). Hope it lives up to that! Welp here I go. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Naterocks2000

[Stormwolf]

Im sure they wanted to be done with it and didnt want to delay the release, so they could start working on something else.

Yume miru is awesome btw. Its not only fun and games, but absolutely worth it.

[adamstan]

I didn't consider Miyu's ending "pure" utsuge.

Spoiler

After all, she at least died kind of happy, having her wish fulfilled by being able to be with MC in her "dream" thanks to some variant of KeyMagic.

But indeed, it's at least "very sad nakige". Now, after I read some other VNs, I'd compare it to AIR ending. Also very sad, but not thouroughly depressing. And yeah, it got me by surprise, just like it got you.

6 hours ago, Naterocks2000 said:

my fave was the school nurse

For me it was the weakest one. Didn't dislike it, but it ranked somewhat lower than the rest. IMO the best route was Yuka's, while my best girl was probably Kyoko. And the song in Kaho's route was beautiful... loved it.

Edited November 18, 2018 by adamstan

[Okarin]

12 hours ago, Infernoplex said:

Regarding Crescendo and Tsuki...

No, they didn't cut anything. G-Collections localized these 2 VNs slightly before their later editions came out. And as per usual in the western VN industry, we never, or very rarely at least, get these later editions updates for the original western localized VNs. So it wasn't "cut", but more like "never updated". Not strange considering VNs were selling even worse back in the day, so there was no incentive to update them at all.

I'd say it depends on the actual timeframe.

For example, Spike Chunsoft, now, they don't have any qualms about localising just another version of Steins;Gate -ANY version, really, because it's a best seller.

But G-Collections is ANCIENT and they probably used what was available. It's just that the companies don't return to previous titles with improved versions, it seems like the West needs a constant flow of new localisations and people care more to have as many different games as possible, not return to old ones.

Another (discordant) example is Rewrite, which is officially arriving in 2 versions I think, and given that the majority of Key fans have already read it, either they buy it out of commitment, or it backfires gloriously (like Little Busters, mind you).

But of course, Rewrite and S;G are major games in a bountiful age for the community like 2018 is, not an old game like Crescendo.

[Naterocks2000]

13 hours ago, adamstan said:

I didn't consider Miyu's ending "pure" utsuge.

  Hide contents

After all, she at least died kind of happy, having her wish fulfilled by being able to be with MC in her "dream" thanks to some variant of KeyMagic.

But indeed, it's at least "very sad nakige". Now, after I read some other VNs, I'd compare it to AIR ending. Also very sad, but not thouroughly depressing. And yeah, it got me by surprise, just like it got you.

For me it was the weakest one. Didn't dislike it, but it ranked somewhat lower than the rest. IMO the best route was Yuka's, while my best girl was probably Kyoko. And the song in Kaho's route was beautiful... loved it.

I liked Kaho's route just as much actually. School nurse was on par for me. Yuka was alright for me but was too realistic seeing as I actually had a relationship with a girl who had those issues (but did not sell her body of course). Kyoko's route was the most innocent and pure hearted to me, so it was pretty good too. School nurse reminded me of a time at the school I went to where somebody there got with the PE teacher and she resigned after graduation that year. (He was 19, she was 23 so its a better age range than 10 years ). Anyways, it was a good game for its age.

[adamstan]

48 minutes ago, Naterocks2000 said:

Anyways, it was a good game for its age.

Yeah, totally. Not only for its age, it's just good The only thing I wish for are longer epilogues/afterstories, but nevertheless great VN and I'm glad I read it.

48 minutes ago, Naterocks2000 said:

Kyoko's route was the most innocent and pure hearted to me, so it was pretty good too.

And she's so cute...

Spoiler

CGs of her cooking and another one, where she rests on MC's chest/shoulder were great.

As for Yuka, surprisingly one of the most emotional moments for me was

Spoiler

the date in the amusement park, her inner monologue about her loneliness. It's very calm scene and almost nothing happens, but for some reasons I got teary eyed there.

Also, what was really great about this route is how it managed to kind of align my view of Yuka with protagonists'. They made sure that her first impression isn't great, so I saw her similarly to MC, and then my approach evolved together with his. That's some good character writing.

Edited November 19, 2018 by adamstan

[Infernoplex]

For me, the most emotional moment in Crescendo is:

Spoiler

The final graduation scene when they are taking a photo in front of the school. That scene is my favorite in the entire VN. I remember crying in every route on that scene only. I wish the VN was more oriented in that direction. Protagonist's life in school, romance, friends, flashbacks... that would have been a perfect slice of life story. The romantical stuff had its issues (I didn't like the endings on the 5 out of 6 routes, while I did enjoy Kaori's and Yuka's routes).

But overall, it was a fine VN. Not excellent or super amazing, but for the age when it came out, it was pretty good compared to all the other trash G-Collections used to put out.

[adamstan]

9 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

it was pretty good compared to all the other trash G-Collections used to put out.

Yeah, looking at their catalog, the other good ones were Kazoku Keikaku and Yukizakura (and, for me at least, Heart de Roommate, although that one seems to be of "love it or hate it" kind ) - the rest were mostly nukiges. Ah, Kana Imouto is supposedly good too, but I don't have the courage to read it...

Spoiler

The little excerpt from it that we got as a movie in Crescendo already made me tearful. I'm not sure if I could handle the full package...

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by adamstan

[Stormwolf]

1 hour ago, Infernoplex said:

For me, the most emotional moment in Crescendo is:

  Hide contents

The final graduation scene when they are taking a photo in front of the school. That scene is my favorite in the entire VN. I remember crying in every route on that scene only. I wish the VN was more oriented in that direction. Protagonist's life in school, romance, friends, flashbacks... that would have been a perfect slice of life story. The romantical stuff had its issues (I didn't like the endings on the 5 out of 6 routes, while I did enjoy Kaori's and Yuka's routes).

But overall, it was a fine VN. Not excellent or super amazing, but for the age when it came out, it was pretty good compared to all the other trash G-Collections used to put out.

Protagonists life in school etc sounds like every vn out there. Good for them for doing something else.

[Decay]

Crescendo's pretty enjoyable, I found. But I never finished it because a couple of the routes bored me. Definitely underappreciated by modern audiences, imo. I get why, the art blows even by 2001 standards. Still worth giving a shot, though.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Decay

[Stormwolf]

Whores, utsuge and girls dating other guys. What exactly draws people to this one? Just curious, not judging. This is one i cannot bring myself to read as i dont read lenghty stuff just to feel bad about it.

[adamstan]

23 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Whores, utsuge and girls dating other guys.

I'd say you exaggerate a bit, or rather jump to quick conclusions. But, tbh, after reading some tags and discussions on VNDB I was hesitating too - but after all I don't regret reading it.

I said about "utsuge" somewhere eariler - IMHO Miyu's route it's about as utsuge'ish, as AIR true route, so take it however you see fit.

As for "girls dating other guys" - if you're afraid of NTR, it isn't present here. In one route heroine breaks up with her current boyfriend, to be with MC, but it's all resolved pretty peacefully. No "stealing", cheating etc.

 

And speaking of "whore"...

That's why I say her route is brilliant. Because at the beginning, from the first impressions, everyone (player and MC included) sees her just as that, but during the route you're in for some surprises.

Overally, I'd say Crescendo is definitely worth reading - and it isn't exactly what it appears on surface. It isn't exactly made for "feeling good" (that's what moeges are for ), has some heavier moments/themes, but I liked it.

 

To summarise - I understand your doubts, and I also have some things I prefer to avoid in VNs (like gore, or some other dark, disturbing themes, as well as "true" utsuge, where there's only death and despair, and no trace of hope), which rules out some "kamiges" for me, but I'd say - give Crescendo a chance.

Edited November 19, 2018 by adamstan

[Stormwolf]

A whore is a whore no matter how you twist and turn it though. You next such a problem girl with baggage heavier than mount everest into the next century. You'd have to have very little self respect to date such a girl. Again, thats just my opinion

 

But what i heard about the utsuge route sounds like utsuge to me. The extended/alternative end brings it into nakige territory.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Stormwolf

[adamstan]

35 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

A whore is a whore no matter how you twist and turn it though. You next such a problem girl with baggage heavier than mount everest into the next century. You'd have to have very little self respect to date such a girl.

Hmm... this somehow fits with your opinions on other characters in general. I'd say you're generally very strict - both when it comes to heroines and protagonists, and have very little forgiveness for the weaknesess/faults they may have.

Besides, I don't say that I'd date her, but nevertheless it was good story to read, with some emotional moments. Not all VNs - even romance ones - are self-inserts for me BTW maybe I shouldn't speak, as I'm probably also one of those "losers" you seem to despise

 

<little OT, but loosely connected:>
You said in other thread, that most western people couldn't relate to shy japanese teenager, that seems to be typical high-school VN protag, and it's probably true.

OTOH I find it somewhat disturbing how much I can relate to them, especially considering my age...

 

To sum it up - with such unforgiving attitude towards characters you won't enjoy Crescendo, I have to agree.

OTOH While wer'e at it, I can't bring myself to read YMK, as from various descriptions, it looks much heavier and darker than Crescendo...

Edited November 19, 2018 by adamstan

[Infernoplex]

6 hours ago, adamstan said:

Yeah, looking at their catalog, the other good ones were Kazoku Keikaku and Yukizakura (and, for me at least, Heart de Roommate, although that one seems to be of "love it or hate it" kind ) - the rest were mostly nukiges. Ah, Kana Imouto is supposedly good too, but I don't have the courage to read it...

I didn't read Kana Imouto, but I heard it's very good. There's also a cameo appearance of Kana in Crescendo (the scene in the cinema, I forgot on whose route). Heart de Roommate is on my "to read some day" list, as well as Kazoku Keikaku (although I heard that the writer of this one is Tanaka Romeo... one of the hardest writers to TL, hence all the complaints about TL being bad xD).

What I did read, though, is Yukizakura. It's one of the weakest moeges I've ever laid my hands on. I read it twice. Once back in 2011 and last year again when I came back into VN reading. One of the most boring moeges for me, hands down. I found all heroine routes to be shit (aside from maybe Saki, but even she has a decent at most route). The only interesting character in the VN is Sumiyoshi. They should have given him the protag role. He's much more worth than the MC whose name I can't even remember now. Anyway, I spent most of Yukizakura's routes by yawning. Common route - somewhat okayish. But then it nosedives in quality the moment some romance needs to develop.

The only other VN that I found more annoying is "Figures of Happiness". I rated them both "5" on VNDB, but honestly, I hated "Figures of Happiness" more.

[Stormwolf]

2 hours ago, adamstan said:

Hmm... this somehow fits with your opinions on other characters in general. I'd say you're generally very strict - both when it comes to heroines and protagonists, and have very little forgiveness for the weaknesess/faults they may have.

Besides, I don't say that I'd date her, but nevertheless it was good story to read, with some emotional moments. Not all VNs - even romance ones - are self-inserts for me BTW maybe I shouldn't speak, as I'm probably also one of those "losers" you seem to despise

 

<little OT, but loosely connected:>
You said in other thread, that most western people couldn't relate to shy japanese teenager, that seems to be typical high-school VN protag, and it's probably true.

OTOH I find it somewhat disturbing how much I can relate to them, especially considering my age...

 

To sum it up - with such unforgiving attitude towards characters you won't enjoy Crescendo, I have to agree.

OTOH While wer'e at it, I can't bring myself to read YMK, as from various descriptions, it looks much heavier and darker than Crescendo...

I wouldn't sell myself short if i were you. I absolutely don't get a hint of you being as bad as a bad vn protagonist. You have your opinions and you stick with them. Bad protagonists just go with the flow, like the sheep that they are. Just read rewrite and see how the protagonists thinking varies from one end to the other based on which girl he's with.

As for me, i'd chock it up to experience and age. I've given up on dating. I've dated exactly 2 girls before i said "enough". First time i got ntr'd.. Yup, it totally happened. Not because of my dick mind you  Second time i dated a girl for a year before finding out she'd been sexually abused for many years by a relative and still wanted to maintain a happy relationship with said relative. Yup, the whole relationship felt like a lie and i couldn't and wouldn't deal with that. Call me a bastard for abandoning her, but with what happened and how she was acting because of it it just simply wasn't worth it. To put it really bluntly. Fortunately for me, i'm quite used to not having a girlfriend so it doesn't matter in the end.

Well, as you'd realize, those two themes piss me off.

As for self insertions. I think most of us either self insert of heavily empathize with the protagonists. I'm the latter as i rarely agree with anything the protagonist does. I'm sure i was similar at that age as some protagonists (i had a personality though) but i was bad with women. I've come to realize later that a few girls liked me, but i did not realize at all (guess i've been quite the donkan ). Point is: isn't it more inspirational reading a protagonists that is better than you are, yet still similar, rather than one who is potentially as bad as you think you are?

Hopefully that didn't become too heavy or too personal  history for me so i don't really care anymore.

[adamstan]

I didn't read "Figures of Happiness" - story description, reviews, and art all turned me off. But I happened to like "Yukizakura" - especially Saki's route.

29 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

Kazoku Keikaku (although I heard that the writer of this one is Tanaka Romeo... one of the hardest writers to TL, hence all the complaints about TL being bad xD).

Translation isn't too bad itself, but it looks like they stopped editing halfway through I have all scripts extracted ready to edit, and hope that one day I'll be able to provide patch with some better editing (I'm working on translated scripts, additionally using voiced lines as some guide, so it will be just editing, not retranslation). Hacking tools that are available unfortunately don't work with Japanese version - it seems to use different encoding.

29 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

There's also a cameo appearance of Kana in Crescendo (the scene in the cinema, I forgot on whose route).

Yes, and it was very emotional for me, but I'm afraid that I cannot handle the whole VN with such mood.

*************************************************************************************

12 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

I absolutely don't get a hint of you being as bad as a bad vn protagonist. You have your opinions and you stick with them.

Thanks, that's good to hear

12 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Just read rewrite and see how the protagonists thinking varies from one end to the other based on which girl he's with.

I'm waiting for official release.

12 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Call me a bastard for abandoning her, but with what happened and how she was acting because of it it just simply wasn't worth it.

Nah, I won't - it isn't easy to deal with such things, and you cannot help somebody who doesn't want it. In such case I think breakup is inevitable, and actually best thing to do.

12 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Well, as you'd realize, those two themes piss me off.

Yup, totally understandable with such personal experiences. Sorry, it turns out that actually I was too harsh on you.

12 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

I'm sure i was similar at that age as some protagonists (i had a personality though) but i was bad with women. I've come to realize later that a few girls liked me, but i did not realize at all (guess i've been quite the donkan ).

Haha, well that's exactly me as well, but I'm still "bad with women", while you seem to have recovered from it. I haven't dated anybody yet, and pretty much almost given up as well - not because I don't want; but at this stage it's quite difficult to begin without any experience.

12 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Point is: isn't it more inspirational reading a protagonists that is better than you are, yet still similar, rather than one who is potentially as bad as you think you are?

Actually good point.

 

12 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Hopefully that didn't become too heavy or too personal

I'm OK with it, it was actually pretty interesting conversation, allowing me to see different POV and at least partly understand it. Thanks.

Edited November 19, 2018 by adamstan

[Infernoplex]

4 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Translation isn't too bad itself, but it looks like they stopped editing halfway through I have all scripts extracted ready to edit, and hope that one day I'll be able to provide patch with some better editing (I'm working on translated scripts, additionally using voiced lines as some guide, so it will be just editing, not retranslation). Hacking tools that are available unfortunately don't work with Japanese version - it seems to use different encoding.

I wish you luck, man

Maybe you finish it by the time I actually decide to read it for the first time XD You never know ^^