Lovekami Healing Harem

[littleshogun]

If Pulltop did treat MoeNovel as the secondary company complete with hiring their PR employee as the most important people in MoeNovel, perhaps it would be the best if we just ignore it even though it's still felt wrong though especially with they mess both of Konosora and Miagete. As for the reason why Pulltop decided to take the localization matter into their own hand, probably because they want to save some money from doing the negotiation with the available localization companies. About Yume Haven, from their own single release I'm not sure if AGM already understand if VN is mostly 18+ entertainment, because they released Shuffle PS2 port instead whch mean that they stll prioritize console game localization first.

Edited December 5, 2018 by littleshogun

[adamstan]

Well, I suppose that YH will indeed localize just all-ages versions - probably AGM's stance on +18 content didn't change. I just hope that they'll understand, that translating VN requires better writing skills, than, say, interface, messages or subtitles for short cutscenes in action game. So maybe that means less "random" translators? And maybe even editor?

I'm actually curious how is that Steam version of Shuffle. It's all-ages (being port of console version), but it adds two routes. I wonder how's the translation quality.

But then - it was released in 2016, and it's only release under "YumeHaven" brand so far. That makes me thinking - maybe Miagete (EN release in 2017) was translated by YH (as its translation was a little better), while CrossChannel (2018) got handled by "main" AGM with usual randomisation? But then, if that's the case - why?

Edited November 21, 2018 by adamstan

[Infernoplex]

On 11/20/2018 at 3:17 AM, Nandemonai said:

Peter's comment when asked about MoeNovel was that "Will wanted to try something different".  That may or may not be what really happened (he's not really at liberty to say too much about how licensing works or how the business relationship is, those details are always private), but it is what he said.

And I have a hard time believing that - given the high quality of some of Pulltop's titles - no localizer ever contacted them asking for anything.  Jast already has a game from them, and they're still around.  MangaGamer was around when MoeNovel launched, and Sekai Project launched about a year later.  Most recently we have Sol Press and Nekonyan.

So yes, it's possible.  But I think it's a fairly unlikely possibility.

I see. Yeah, you are right. I am still sad about it, though. I am quite interested in Ensemble's titles, but they also fall under Will's brand. Sigh...

I didn't know Peter talked about it before. Thank you for that info.

Quote

That makes me thinking - maybe Miagete (EN release in 2017) was translated by YH (as its translation was a little better), while CrossChannel (2018) got handled by "main" AGM with usual randomisation? But then, if that's the case - why?

Maybe YH is more expensive? Hiring better TLers (and editors maybe), you know? xDD

Then again, I don't think so It was probably still AGM with its random generator of TLers. Miazora's TL still wasn't as good as, say, if MangaGamer localized it instead.

[adamstan]

28 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

Miazora's TL still wasn't as good as, say, if MangaGamer localized it instead.

But better than very early MangaGamer at least (legendary first Edelweiss TL anyone? )

And incidentally - those first horrible MG releases used japanese translators, who apparently weren't too good with English - just as it seems to be the case with AGM. Add little to no editing and you have a recipe for a trainwreck...

Of course MG got much better - they probably listened to feedback.

Edited November 21, 2018 by adamstan

[Infernoplex]

10 minutes ago, adamstan said:

But better than very early MangaGamer at least (legendary first Edelweiss TL anyone? )

Old MG is behind us xD ... Maybe you could use Magical Marriage Lunatics or the FD for Princess Evangile as an example instead? I heard those had issues (didn't read them myself to confirm if they were bad or not)

Edited November 21, 2018 by Infernoplex

[adamstan]

I read PE FD, but didn't had issues with TL quality. Maybe it had some, but nothing that would stick out to me.

Didn't read MML, looks too boring to me.

I've heard that demo version of PE had some serious issues, but they were corrected in the full release.

Edited November 21, 2018 by adamstan

[adamstan]

From the recently necro'd thread about Libra of the Vampire Princess:

On 3.11.2017 at 7:03 AM, Nandemonai said:

Also, I found this: http://www.7happycreations.com/just-who-translated-libra-of-the-vampire-princess/

This description is horrifying.  3 translation teams, team changeovers, it was the particular team members' first translation job (which is just terrible - if they're a big company, haven't they got veteran people? No team should ever consist of all newbies.)  They translated "simply and cleanly" in an effort to make their style fit with the other teams' styles, even though they never saw any of their work!  Un. Believable.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

But other thing baffles me. There certainly ARE many Japanese people who are fluent at English - I refuse to believe otherwise. So why PROFESSIONAL TRANSLATION SERVICES don't hire them, and instead opt to produce unreadable gibberish? Do those tl companies (not game localization, but in general) pay their translators too little, and a person who is actually good at English just has many better job opportunities?

It would certainly be ironic in a pretty disturbing way, if only people who suck at English would be desperate enough to work as translators...

Edited November 27, 2018 by adamstan

[Incynerate]

12 hours ago, adamstan said:

From the recently necro'd thread about Libra of the Vampire Princess:

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

But other thing baffles me. There certainly ARE many Japanese people who are fluent at English - I refuse to believe otherwise. So why PROFESSIONAL TRANSLATION SERVICES don't hire them, and instead opt to produce unreadable gibberish? Do those tl companies (not game localization, but in general) pay their translators too little, and a person who is actually good at English just has many better job opportunities?

It would certainly be ironic in a pretty disturbing way, if only people who suck at English would be desperate enough to work as translators...

I'm 100% guessing, but considering how much text there is to translate in a full-length VN and how niche VNs are, I doubt the pay is amazing for the amount of work being done. If you're a skilled translator fluent in both Japanese and English, I have to imagine there are more lucrative options than VNs. (But again, I'm just guessing)

 

EDIT: (Which is not to imply that VN translators aren't skilled. I imagine there are a fair few who aren't making what they deserve given their talent.)

Edited November 28, 2018 by Incynerate

[adamstan]

11 hours ago, Incynerate said:

I have to imagine there are more lucrative options than VNs

Yes, but from what can be read here and there, it isn't limited to games, but in general Japanese professional translation companies that are hired as contractors tend to be pretty bad with English. It's apparently similar situation with various texts, documents, technical papers etc.

Like various anecdotes from foreigners working at japanese companies or cooperating with them, where they receive some documents, supposedly translated by professional, expensive TL service, which are completely unreadable, worse than MTL... From those stories it looks like there is something wrong with translation business as a whole.

Maybe those skilled enough go to be teachers or interpeters, and don't bother with translating texts?

*********************

Of course, this may be all wrong, as it's based mostly on hearsay, but OTOH the state of VNs translated by Japanese companies, with few exceptions, seems to confirm it

Edited November 28, 2018 by adamstan

[WorldofAI]

It's quite interesting to hear arguments from the other side. I've come across some people (on Steam) who vigorously defend MoeNovel and their practices. The idea that "it's better having a half-baked release in English than nothing at all". The people are rooting for MoeNovel to release more Pulltop titles such as the Fine Days fandisc for A Sky Full of Stars.

I'm currently working on Healing Harem and it feels like Useless Goddess 2.0. Not my taste.

[Infernoplex]

2 hours ago, WorldofAI said:

It's quite interesting to hear arguments from the other side. I've come across some people (on Steam) who vigorously defend MoeNovel and their practices. The idea that "it's better having a half-baked release in English than nothing at all". The people are rooting for MoeNovel to release more Pulltop titles such as the Fine Days fandisc for A Sky Full of Stars.

Fine Days all ages wouldn't work very well. It doesn't have enough content like the original game to make it worth. Interstellar Focus is probably the same in that regard. Moenovel fanboys are a special kind of stupid.

[adamstan]

8 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

It doesn't have enough content like the original game to make it worth. Interstellar Focus is probably the same in that regard.

Yep, looks like it.

Spoiler

Threesome with Hikari and Saya - that definitely smells like typical h-oriented fandisc

I wonder how will Flight Diary turn out. It looks like it has enough story to stand on its own without h-scenes, judging by it having +17 console version.

Edited November 28, 2018 by adamstan

[Infernoplex]

4 hours ago, adamstan said:

I wonder how will Flight Diary turn out. It looks like it has enough story to stand on its own without h-scenes, judging by it having +17 console version.

What's funny is that they are actually not doing that one, but the original one (with their own idea of what to cut xD). That's what I heard at least.

And yeah... I am curious how they made Interstellar Focus work with that particular detail. Seems like something that's totally out of character for the characters at hand. Maybe they did it well... or maybe they didn't (for now, I am inclined to believe they didn't).

[adamstan]

1 hour ago, Infernoplex said:

What's funny is that they are actually not doing that one, but the original one (with their own idea of what to cut xD). That's what I heard at least.

That would be really strange. Console release "Cruise Sign" (contaning both main game and fandisc) came out in 2016, 3 years after english release of main game, but now that shouldn't be a problem. Why would Pulltop want extra work with preparing another all-ages version, if they already have one done? I hope it's not because they want to "match" the level of IMHHW original release... <shudders>

What I would really like them to do, if they want to stay all-ages, would be to translate "Cruise Sign" (complete with Akari's route, which is exclusive to this version) and port it to PC. And of course, hire decent translators, if there are any left... Release it on Steam and profit - new route and translation should lure some buyers in... But, sadly, I don't see it happening

1 hour ago, Infernoplex said:

how they made Interstellar Focus work with that particular detail. (...) Maybe they did it well... or maybe they didn't (for now, I am inclined to believe they didn't).

I feel the same - this fandisc look to be purely fanservice'y kind.

Edited November 28, 2018 by adamstan

[Stormwolf]

Wont even touch this if its censored.

[WorldofAI]

16 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Wont even touch this if its censored.

For these games, they trick you by releasing it censored in English and then releasing it uncensored in Japanese a year or two later. That’s what Pulltop did with the first two LoveKami spinoffs.

[Dergonu]

3 hours ago, adamstan said:

That would be really strange. Console release "Cruise Sign" (contaning both main game and fandisc) came out in 2016, 3 years after english release of main game, but now that shouldn't be a problem. Why would Pulltop want extra work with preparing another all-ages version, if they already have one done? I hope it's not because they want to "match" the level of IMHHW original release... <shudders>

What I would really like them to do, if they want to stay all-ages, would be to translate "Cruise Sign" (complete with Akari's route, which is exclusive to this version) and port it to PC. And of course, hire decent translators, if there are any left... Release it on Steam and profit - new route and translation should lure some buyers in... But, sadly, I don't see it happening

I feel the same - this fandisc look to be purely fanservice'y kind.

They aren't doing Cruise Sign. They are just cutting the H out of the original game. Dumb? Yes, but when has Moenovel ever done something that isn't dumb? (Also, it's hardly "preparing an all-ages version"; they just remove H and leave it at that.) The alterations made in Sky full of Stars were a one time thing it seems. They have done nothing of the sorts before or after. Why they went the extra mile with that game, only to revert back to old, lazy methods is beyond me. But yeah, Moenovel never makes any sense, so /shrug

 

Content wise Flight Diary does have a decent amount of story, but you're still losing out on a LOT of content with the removal of the H. It is a fandisk, after all.

[Stormwolf]

12 minutes ago, WorldofAI said:

For these games, they trick you by releasing it censored in English and then releasing it uncensored in Japanese a year or two later. That’s what Pulltop did with the first two LoveKami spinoffs.

But now they have no reason for doing that anymore.

[adamstan]

16 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

They aren't doing Cruise Sign. They are just cutting the H out of the original game. Dumb? Yes, but when has Moenovel ever done something that isn't dumb? (Also, it's hardly "preparing an all-ages version"; they just remove H and leave it at that.)

So what did they do when they were making Cruise Sign? If there were some changes similar to Sky Full of Stars made, then wouldn't it be wiser to base it on that version? Mind you, I don't know how Cruise Sign really is - maybe it was also made just by cutting h-scenes.

Also, maybe the problem lies in the fact that Cruise Sign was published by 5pb and not Pulltop/Willplus themselves? Some licensing issues? Different engine/script format? Because it would be really stupid to do extra work with all that cutting again when there's all-ages version already just waiting for translation...

Well, if they ONLY cut h-scenes, then maybe it will still work, although not as smoothly as in ASFOS. In Sanoba Witch there were no replacement scenes and yet it was good.

16 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

The alterations made in Sky full of Stars were a one time thing it seems.

And that's sad It looks like they really want FD to match abysmal level of original IMHHW release...

6 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

But now they have no reason for doing that anymore.

Unfortunately they still do, because the problem isn't with Steam itself, but with translation service they are using (AGM).

Edited November 28, 2018 by adamstan

[Dergonu]

Just now, adamstan said:

So what did they do when they were making Cruise Sign? If there were some changes similar to Sky Full of Stars made, then wouldn't it be wiser to base it on that version? Mind you, I don't know how Cruise Sign really is - maybe it was also made just by cutting h-scenes.

Also, maybe the problem lies in the fact that Cruise Sign was published by 5pb and not Pulltop/Willplus themselves? Some licensing issues? Different engine/script format? Because it would be really stupid to do extra work with all that cutting again when there's all-ages version already just waiting for translation...

And that's sad It looks like they really want FD to match abysmal level of original IMHHW release...

Unfortunately they still do, because the problem isn't with Steam itself, but with translation service they use (AGM).

I haven't played Cruise Sign in a while, so I honestly don't recall if they changed any dialogue, but from what I remember, the text is mostly the same. (So, not a lot of re-writing like was done in the English Miagete Goran release.) Japan doesn't lose their shit when sex is refrenced in their games, after all. I believe most of the H related talk just stays the same, tbh. The H itself is gone, of course, and certain CGs are alterred/ removed. But it also ADDS a new route, which won't be present in the Moenovel release.

Why they chose to do it this way is a mystery. We can only speculate, I guess. They are completely cutting out at least two scenarios, (an H-scenario with the twins that has an okay amount of lines outside H too, and the threesome with the Himegi twins.) + All the H in general is gone, and I assume refrences to sex will be gone as well.

Just now, Stormwolf said:

But now they have no reason for doing that anymore.

Yes, Moenovel does. They started censoring their games before going on Steam. (If my heart had wings is still censored on Mangagamer, remember?) Steam allowing 18+ content changes nothing for Moenovel, sadly.

 

The last two games were released in Japan five months after the censored versions in the west. Seeing as Pulltop has a major title slated for Feb. 2019, it would make sense for them to follow that release schedule and release Healing Harem's 18+ version around March/ April 2019 or later. So, we won't get the porn version for a while.

[adamstan]

2 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

I assume refrences to sex will be gone as well.

And that would be big step backwards if that's the case. In Miagete, while scenario was rewritten to omit h-scenes (or leave them off-screen), references or jokes in other places were still intact.

They should take after Sanoba Witch Steam edition - that's how "censored" releases should be made. And well, from what you are saying, Cruise Sign was done in a similar manner. Maybe that "PR guy" that acts as MoeNovel should be replaced with someone more sensible

All in all, it looks like not bad release of ASFOS was kind of small miracle...

[Dergonu]

18 minutes ago, adamstan said:

And that would be big step backwards if that's the case. In Miagete, while scenario was rewritten to omit h-scenes (or leave them off-screen), references or jokes in other places were still intact.

They should take after Sanoba Witch Steam edition - that's how "censored" releases should be made. And well, from what you are saying, Cruise Sign was done in a similar manner. Maybe that "PR guy" that acts as MoeNovel should be replaced with someone more sensible

All in all, it looks like not bad release of ASFOS was kind of small miracle...

While they might have left some general refrences in the TL, I glanced at the script thanks to @Infernoplex and saw some fairly big changes in scenes leading up to/ coming after H-scenes which removed refrences to sex. (It also has a fair share of translation errors.) ASFOS was absolutely a major step in the right direction TL wise, but still lacked in quality compared to other professional TLs. (The TL errors should really not be there, for instance.) Adding some extra content to the places where H was removed is basically the norm in console/ all-ages versions, so it's a shame they aren't sticking with that approach.

[adamstan]

6 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

While they might have left some general refrences in the TL, I glanced at the script thanks to @Infernoplex and saw some fairly big changes in scenes leading up to/ coming after H-scenes which removed refrences to sex.

Yeah, I was talking about references in other parts - which is still a major step forward compared to ridiculous amount of bleaching applied to Konosora. ("big eyes" ).

I think my next read will be PE all-ages edition - I'm curious how Moonstone handled this issue.

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by adamstan

[littleshogun]

I guess we're not doing much talking about Healing Harem here, although then again it's not like I have interest in Healing Harem anyway lol. As for Steam commentary, well I can't comment much other than I wouldn't pay attention much to the FDs releases lol, although it's still too bad though if Pulltop managed to get the idea to localized Miagete's FDs. For the censorship issue, while we can say that AGM policy is at fault, personally I would blame Pulltop more because they should already decided that they wouldn't released 18+ VNs overseas if they chose AGM knowing the situation, and I think they already determined to do that. Besides, if they really want to localized 18+ VNs, they can just decided to break the contract with AGM (Or getting around of it) and chose new partners who is more flexible in regard of 18+ contents. Granted I did say that it's because of the money that they took it with their own hand, but it's not like it's impossible if they ask some assistance from either Mangagamer or JAST for the translator (Probably).

Well in the end what I can say is that this is the exciting release from Pulltop like they say, and I agree with that because Healing Harem here is not Pulltop's big VN and we can safely let it butchered lol.

[Dergonu]

On 28.11.2018 at 9:58 PM, adamstan said:

So what did they do when they were making Cruise Sign? If there were some changes similar to Sky Full of Stars made, then wouldn't it be wiser to base it on that version? Mind you, I don't know how Cruise Sign really is - maybe it was also made just by cutting h-scenes.

This is slightly off-topic, though related to Moenovel and our previous discussion about them/ Flight Diary here, so go easy on me. Just thought I'd correct my previous response to this a little bit. Hopefully you're still interested in this, lol. 

I recently skimmed through Cruise Sign, and paid attention to differences between it and the original.

Basically, it is exactly like the English version of ASFOF. General refrences to sex/ perverted jokes etc are left intact, and "lewd" CGs in the common route such as bath scenes are untouched, but with some added towels/ steam. (No text changes whatsoever. So, no silly "big eyes" lines like in Moenovel's original TL, lol. )
The routes, however, got changed a little. All refrences to the characters having had sex are altered, as the H-scenes are replaced by kissing/ cuddling scenes. So, for instance, in Ageha's route, everything is the same except whenever they have sex as "sex buddies", they make out instead. Her route is still rather frisky, though direct refrences to sex are gone. (+ the CG where you can see her bra through her wet T-shirt was altered to not show her bra, most likely due to Sony being anal about that stuff, and not because of Pulltop wanted it.)
This is the same for some gags later on in the game's routes, like when Amane watches porn to learn about sex. (She now watches a romance movie to learn about kissing.) What I like here is that they replaced/ re-wrote these parts, and didn't just cut them. They have added new voiced lines, new text and a few new CGs here and there. (Though a few lewd H-scenes are obviously 100% gone, with no replacements, mainly just because these are JUST porn, and don't fit in the this version, even when altered.) Overall, it's a fairly complete and "uncut" release all things considered, with the only real alterations being the changes where sex becomes more wholesome stuff like kissing / cuddling. The only thing I found a little strange was in Kotori's route, as she has a couple of H-scenes that contain totally SFW CGs, like when they sit together in the bath before having sex. This whole scene IS cut out of the game, perhaps because they wanted to keep things more consistent with the "wholesome" romance feel they are going for, especially in Kotori's route. (Lovers bathing together in Japan does generally mean sex, so it's not that strange, I suppose.)

Flight Diary's routes do have more frisky stuff added where the H should be, though, like the twin's route, which has a scene where the girls are making out in nothing but bikinis while they sit on the protag's lap, lol.

Now, what's interesting is, Moenovel is NOT using this version as a base for their TL. We know this because:

1) They are not including the Akari route unique to Cruise Sign. There is NO reason not to include this if they have it, as it is created as an all-ages route to begin with.

2) They are removing the Twin's after route, which IS left intact in Cruise Sign, but with replaced CGs where there is H. This is one of the original routes in Flight Diary, even the base 18+ version. This suggests they are probably removing/ altering content themselves, and just skipped this one as they have nothing to replace the H with. In other words, they don't have access to the Cruise Sign assets.

 

My theory is that Pulltop probably had plans of making a PSvita version for ASFOS, but scrapped it for some reason, and Moenovel wound up with the assets. But, for Flight Diary, there IS a port, and so Moenovel did not get the Cruise Sign assets, possibly due to license issues. (This does make me wonder why the all-ages port for ASFOS never saw the light of day. I seriously doubt it was created just for the English version, as that is clearly not something they do for any other Moenovel releases, so they chose not to release the all-ages port, for some mysterious reason. Queue X-files theme) tl;dr, I sadly don't think we're ever going to see a decent release from Moenovel such as ASOFS, as they'd need all-ages assets to have been made in advance, something I doubt they'll get again.

 

To keep this post a bit more on topic, there are still no news on the Healing Harem 18+ version in Japan, probably due to Pulltop's new major game being close to release. (Feb. 2019) I suspect they will announce Healing Harem, (under a different name, like they did with the previous Love Kami games in JP,) around March, after their new title has launched. As, if they announced it now, it would drown out their PR for their big title, which probably isn't a good idea.