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Attack Helicopter Dating Simulator on Steam

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Hi guys! our game Attack Helicopter Dating Simulator is out right now on steam. In this game , as someone that identifies as an Attack Helicopter you will be able to go on missions and of course date other Helicopters. 

Steam  Page Link

The game has 11 endings, with more than  6 variables each one.

I would love to hear your opinion about it. :lol:

Some screen captures:

 

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3 minutes ago, Ranzo said:

In the game do you have Ride of the Valkyries on loop?

I wish, if we had the money for that, I would have that one and fortunate son all the time. Maybe on the next one. If we get enough cash. 

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1 minute ago, Thyndd said:

Thank you, beautiful people. I love me some warship waifus, don't get me wrong, but as someone who sexually identifies as an attack helicopter, it was always my dream to get to date one with a good pair of M230 canons.

We are very concern with vehicular representation here on CurseBox, and also to prevent the objectification of helicopters. 

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Seems humorous enough. However, I'm pretty sure that the "I identify as an attack helicopter" meme is seen as transphobic by most trans people (it's mocking people who identify as non-binary genders), so just please make sure that you're being respectful towards trans people.

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4 hours ago, Funyarinpa said:

Seems humorous enough. However, I'm pretty sure that the "I identify as an attack helicopter" meme is seen as transphobic by most trans people (it's mocking people who identify as non-binary genders), so just please make sure that you're being respectful towards trans people.

You could say that this meme is making fun of 'non-binary' people, or you can also a acknowledge the fact that this plays exactly according to their rules and therefore they are the ones who are mocking themselves. Also, I would say that most genuine trans people hate it when their condition is bastardized by angsty teenagers eager for attention and the SJWs that support them. Satire is often one of the best methods to expose the ridiculousness of a situation. 

Anyway, no matter you personal opinion on the topic, political correctness should never stay in the way of comedy. In the end, you can't just demand that it doesn't offend anyone, because that's always the offendee's prerogative, not the offender's.

 

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3 minutes ago, Thyndd said:

You could say that this meme is making fun of 'non-binary' people, or you can also a acknowledge the fact that this plays exactly according to their rules and therefore they are the ones who are mocking themselves. Also, I would say that most genuine trans people hate it when their condition is bastardized by angsty teenagers eager for attention and the SJWs that support them. Satire is often one of the best methods to expose the ridiculousness of a situation. 

Anyway, no matter you personal opinion on the topic, political correctness should never stay in the way of comedy. In the end, you can't just demand that it doesn't offend anyone, because that's always the offendee's prerogative, not the offender's.

 

Making attack helicopter jokes to mock non-binary and trans people (and what they have to say) is not insightful, and is about as relevant and mature as exposing your dick to a vegetarian and shouting "so you won't eat this meat either, huh?????" while dancing in front of them.

For all the claims about how this meme is satire, I find it perplexing that people have such a deep need to satirize something that's an important issue that still needs to be discussed. Trans and non-binary people aren't saying "let's call people attack helicopters", they're saying that for some people, the gender they identify as doesn't match their body. And they've historically been murdered and ostracized because of this. I see nothing "ridiculous" about this situation.

"Oh, these people are being killed because other people can't accept their identity. How quirky and weird and satire-worthy."

For all this "Oh, oh, it's to own the dirty SJWs!!!!!!" talk, it's the """""SJWs""""" who advocate most ardently advocate for trans rights. Funny how that goes. And no, people you call "SJWs" do not actually claim absurd shit just for the sake of shouting at people. Funny how if a trans person says "Please don't make these jokes, they hurt me and mock who I am" they're called an SJW and laughed at. An SJW -to basically everyone who uses that term- is someone who says "maybe we should watch what we say and do to not hurt others in unnecessary ways". That's it. And since people don't want to actually be critical of how they behave themselves, "SJWs" become these bunch of shrieking idiots offended at everything. Why? Because that makes it easier to laugh at people who say "Please don't hurt us." instead of examining our behavior and exercising some self-restraint. I wish we'd see the same level of coordinated mocking satire and criticism against actual bigots.

And that's the key, "self-restraint". It's not about whether comedy should be allowed to satirize anything and everything. It's not about "shitty political correctness is taking our jokes away!!". It's about how shitty and hurtful it is to make jokes mocking people who have already been ostracized and hurt for who they are. It's not about whether it's "allowed" or not. It's about being good satire, which (besides general comedy) aims to portray something wrong in a humorous way in order to make a point that something is wrong about the thing being satirised. It's about not saying things that hurt people.

And I think you can appreciate the fact that this is just a way of criticism, which is perfectly fine since free speech (including criticism) at its absolute is more important than anything else. Right?

These jokes don't simply satirize a bunch of kooky extremists. They mock any trans person who says anything that's remotely new or uncomfortable. 

Memes mocking "SJWs" are fucking everywhere. Some people are a bit sensitive about some types of jokes and statements, wow, that's sure worth a level of coordinated criticism and mockery sustained for years we don't levy at sexual harassers, bigots, racists, homophobes, groups who actually hurt others. Guess it's their fault they're a bit ~offended~ at this stuff after being hurt for it for all of history.

For all the snark about "SJWs can't take a joke!!!", people sure seem sensitive to having their behavior and words criticized. 

The idea that no trans person ever gets offended at these jokes (same with racial jokes, etc.) except "SJWs", and that it apparently doesn't matter if an "SJW" is offended (even if they're trans), is fucking absurd. It's a lie. It's just a way to sugarcoat hatred people want to spew when they're told something they're doing something wrong.

This entire "b-b-b-b-but it's to own the SJWs!" argument is the most ironic aspect of modern society... Free speech -unimpeded, possibly harmful speech- is somehow worth more than anything else, but when some people try to exercise that very same free speech to express anger, frustration or hurt, they're mocked, ostracized and belittled for it. Comedy is allowed to criticise and mock everything but when "SJWs" try to criticise other things seriously, they're told "This actually isn't offensive, you have no right to feel hurt by this" and that they shouldn't criticise things. 

The entire SJW boogeyman is a lie people are using to avoid being told they can do or say harmful things. Knowingly so (even worse, if unknowingly).

Obviously, I don't expect @neometalero to care about all this at this point, so all I'll say is that at least don't put a """trap""" character or something in this game.

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Seriously, you need to chill out. Let's see if we can reach an agreement. 

17 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

Making attack helicopter jokes to mock non-binary and trans people (and what they have to say) is not insightful, and is about as relevant and mature as exposing your dick to a vegetarian and shouting "so you won't eat this meat either, huh?????" while dancing in front of them.

Definitely not insightful, but it can still be a funny joke in an appropiate context, that is, playing the fool with your friends. Really, while I'm not a vegetarian myself, it's actually something that was always in the back of my mind and I don't discard becoming one in the future. If at that time someone makes a similar joke to me, I can guarantee you that I won't feel aggravated. As I said, it's up to you if you get offended by a joke or statement; the actual intentions of the other person bear very little relevance.

Also, while obviously I can only speak for myself, I don't think this whole "attack helicopter" thing is targeted towards your average trans people, but we'll go back to that in a minute.

40 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

For all the claims about how this meme is satire, I find it perplexing that people have such a deep need to satirize something that's an important issue that still needs to be discussed. Trans and non-binary people aren't saying "let's call people attack helicopters", they're saying that for some people, the gender they identify as doesn't match their body. And they've historically been murdered and ostracized because of this. I see nothing "ridiculous" about this situation.

"Oh, these people are being killed because other people can't accept their identity. How quirky and weird and satire-worthy."

 

42 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

And that's the key, "self-restraint". It's not about whether comedy should be allowed to satirize anything and everything. It's not about "shitty political correctness is taking our jokes away!!". It's about how shitty and hurtful it is to make jokes mocking people who have already been ostracized and hurt for who they are. 

Well, while being a dick is bad, you still have every right to be so if you so wish. Why? Because once again, how "hurtful" a joke is does not depend on the actual intentions of the person making the joke. If the whole point of someone's joke is to intentionally hurt someone else that doesn't deserve it, then that person is an asshole. The problem is, if we are to ban assholes, in the process we'd also have to get rid of our freedom of speech, since everyone could bring up their personal little feelings when facing any statement that doesn't sit well with them.

My intention is not to hurt and ostracize people who were historically persecuted, I can at least say that much. And I'd like to think that the same applies to most people fooling around.

1 hour ago, Funyarinpa said:

These jokes don't simply satirize a bunch of kooky extremists. They mock any trans person who says anything that's remotely new or uncomfortable. 

You clearly haven't spend enough time in the deepest shitholes of tumblr and similar sites. Which is good for your mental health, I must say. 

Shit like is is what I expect people making fun of, not poor transgender people who have to witness this day after day, worried sick that society will start dumping them with these shitheads and every ounce of progress they have achieved during the last decades will go to waste.

Yes, I believe there is something very wrong with that, and that's what I expect this satiric reaction to cover. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Thyndd said:

Well, while being a dick is bad, you still have every right to be so if you so wish. Why? Because once again, how "hurtful" a joke is does not depend on the actual intentions of the person making the joke. If the whole point of someone's joke is to intentionally hurt someone else that doesn't deserve it, then that person is an asshole.

And that is why all I'm saying is, don't be an asshole.

Let's not be assholes.

We'll only need to get rid of free speech to keep this sort of dicky "humor" from propagating if people are not willing to exercise the self-restraint to not make jokes like this. "I have every right to be a dick so you cannot tell me to not be one" is a really, really nonsensical assertion.

Let's just collectively decide not to be assholes.

And, sad as I am to say, intention doesn't matter that much. At the end of the day, regardless of intention, stuff like this sees more light of day than discussion of actual issues. This sort of thing, even if you just want to mock the kooky feminist boogeyman, drags down actual trans people and their struggle. 

People left and right don't give a shit about actual trans people unless they can mock a concept related to them. You perhaps aren't the sort of person who goes around saying "hur hur yer feelins dunnt determine yer gender hur hur", but the thing is, that's the stereotype you propagate about trans people. It gets generalized to trans people because like it or not, people will use these jokes to mock trans people by saying "oh you identify as male even though you look like a girl? what are you gonna be next, an attack helicopter?" and similar things. And honestly, it does not readily come off across as mocking the kooky feminist boogeyman and not trans people, anyways. People use the EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS to mock trans people. LIKE IT OR NOT, many trans people are hurt by this joke. Because it was never just "mocking SJWs". At every stage of history, including the internet, these sorts of jokes have circulated under the guise of "mocking extreme progressives", while shutting down the voices of all sorts of marginalized people. Is there a single meme or term related to trans people you've seen more than the attack helicopter meme? Note: "Futa" and "trap" do not count. And that's the thing. It takes the idea of gender identity and mocks that concept as a whole, regardless of your intention.

34 minutes ago, Thyndd said:

You clearly haven't spend enough time in the deepest shitholes of tumblr and similar sites. Which is good for your mental health, I must say. 

 

I have, buddy. I've seen my share of shit. I know of the things you guys see as "SJW bullshit" when it's not being used by people who are out-and-out bigots in their own words. And you know what? I'll take a confederacy of nebulagender people over a single person who uses "gay" as an insult.

And therein lies the rub. That's the most harmful or outrageous thing about these people you can come up with. A bunch of Tumblr posts made by people you probably won't interact with in your daily life, and which don't harm you in any way. That's the huge, unacceptable offence that these people commit in your eyes: Saying "If you say things that hurt people who are already spurned by most of society, you're an asshole" is unacceptable in your eyes. It's not a tirade against free speech. It's OFFERING CRITICISM OF CULTURE, LITERALLY THE ENTIRE POINT OF FREE SPEECH. Free speech doesn't mean "say everything you can because they're inherently good things to say", we can all say things that hurt others, and we should try to not do that. """SJWs""" are just people who claim that some things people say are hurtful, and that we shouldn't say hurtful things. And that's it, that's fucking it, that's the fucking crime against humanity that the social justice warriors have somehow committed to get more ridicule, anger, ire and mockery drawn toward them than any other demographic on the internet, more than literal, overt racism, more than homophobia, more than out-and-out sexism. 

And that's why all of this is bullshit. People claim to give two shits about trans people and that they're not mocking trans people, no sir, but when it comes down to actually caring about and supporting these people it becomes "but the gays talk about being gay all the time it's annoying" and "free speech, you can't tell me what to do", "don't make this about race/gender", "you're overthinking it", and endless derivatives of such shit. They don't watch their language or their behavior, they complain about "forced diversity", they talk about how much they love fapping to "traps", and aren't uncomfortable when people say things like "fake and gay". Basically, 99.9999999% of people who use the term SJW say these jokes aren't aimed at trans people, because they don't want to deal with the consequences of saying they don't actually give a shit. And guess what, it doesn't even matter to you if the joke's actually aimed at trans people or not. By your very own metric, people have some sort of right to make overtly transphobic jokes since apparently "comedy" or "satire" can't be hurtful or bigoted, or at least doesn't matter if it is bigoted. By your own metric, you're allowed to make jokes that are mocking trans people and apparently that's all that's important beyond not being an asshole, so long as you can be an asshole.

People who cause much more harm (to free speech and other things) don't draw the same ire.

Somehow people deserve ridicule and mockery (if not outright hatred) from millions for thinking up new genders but it's okay if they get off to drawings of children (even toddlers) because that is free speech and they don't hurt anybody so don't criticise them!!! 

 

Y'all can really fucking tolerate an entire culture built around lolis but can't tolerate a bunch of people coming up with monikers for themselves.

Fuck off with the "we care about trans people this is mocking another demographic that's not related to or associated with trans people at all!" bullshit already.

 

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17 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

We'll only need to get rid of free speech to keep this sort of dicky "humor" from propagating if people are not willing to exercise the self-restraint to not make jokes like this. "I have every right to be a dick so you cannot tell me to not be one" is a really, really nonsensical assertion.

 

24 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

And, sad as I am to say, intention doesn't matter that much. At the end of the day, regardless of intention, stuff like this sees more light of day than discussion of actual issues. This sort of thing, even if you just want to mock the kooky feminist boogeyman, drags down actual trans people and their struggle. 

You see, the thing is that we shouldn't really prevent any kind of humor or jokes from propagating. We need to prevent assholes, people trying to hurt and belittle others so they can feel better with themselves. I will stand by the claim that intention is much more important that you're making it out to be. For example, as I hope you realize, my intention is not to hurt you during this little quarrel of ours. However, try as I might, there's no way for me to get my point across while at the same time making sure that you won't be offended by anything I say. And to make things worse, it's often impossible to tell apart whether a someone's purposely willing to be offensive or is simply showing a not so well accepted opinion they firmly believe in. 

Being respectful and mindful of other people feelings should be a matter of basic education that everyone should've learnt during the first life stages from their parents or caretakers. Unfortunately this isn't always successful, and in that case, the people dealing with this now grown-up asshole will have to put up with it. You talk about "dicussing actual issues", but I'm afraid you might be forgetting that people's feelings are not real, objective issues. We are not children anymore, and something everyone should've also adquired while growing up is the emotional stability to be able to accept that people will often say stuff that will make us feel uncomfortable or even threatened. The extent to which this stuff can hurt you is entirely up to you.

51 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

People left and right don't give a shit about actual trans people unless they can mock a concept related to them. You perhaps aren't the sort of person who goes around saying "hur hur yer feelins dunnt determine yer gender hur hur", but the thing is, that's the stereotype you propagate about trans people. It gets generalized to trans people because like it or not, people will use these jokes to mock trans people by saying "oh you identify as male even though you look like a girl? what are you gonna be next, an attack helicopter?" and similar things.

Well, you can use a knife to cook a lovely dinner, or to backstab someone to death. As the knife manufacturer, I'm not accountable for any misuse or abuse. Furthermore, I find it interesting that you complain that playing along with this satire I help propagate an stereotype... while at the same time defending the innocent tumblr users that are not trying not hurt anyone. Perhaps you are not realizing how unintentionally harmful they are? And because it's unintentional, and being faithful and consistent with my own policy, I don't think they can be blamed for it, they are certainly not assholes, but heck, they are ones who make the most noise and spread a ridiculous stereotype that is then attributed to all the trans collective. They are most certainly not doing them any favor, and are unwillingly much more harmful that any attack helicopter meme out there, which started precisely as a reaction to their stupidity. 

It must be noticed that the masses are not exactly the most clever and thoughtful organism. You say that people are just always looking for a reason to make fun of and hurt others. That's a pretty depressing view, and one that I do not share. I just think that the masses are unable to separate between the great majority of the trans collective and some bullshit on the internet supported only by a minority. It's much easier to lump them all together and call it a day, especially it makes for an amusing topic of people who think they are blue whales or apache helicopters. Just like it was not the tumblr bloggers' intention to hurt the trans collective, I don't believe it's the masses intention either.

1 hour ago, Funyarinpa said:

"""SJWs""" are just people who claim that some things people say are hurtful, and that we shouldn't say hurtful things. And that's it, that's fucking it, that's the fucking crime against humanity that the social justice warriors have somehow committed to get more ridicule, anger, ire and mockery drawn toward them than any other demographic on the internet, more than literal, overt racism, more than homophobia, more than out-and-out sexism. 

Yeah well, let's see, off the top of my mind:

-I know cases of teachers that have been harrassed and dismissed just for mentioning the biological differences between men and women, or because they addressed a student with the wrong pronoun, thus threatening their "identity" (SJWs feel very easily threatened, as it turns out).

-Thanks to SJWs, who unfortunately occupy ever bigger positions within the government, my country's included, the rule of law and penal code is upside down. The burden of proof have been reverted and nowadays if you are accused by a member of one of the "oppressed" collectives, you are expected to prove your innocence. 

-They are the biggest of hypocrites. Not so long ago in my country there was a presumed rape case carried by several local men. The judge however found very serious contradictions in the presumed victim's testimony, so, even though they were still sentenced to jail, the sentence was mitigated because of that. Needless to say this stired up the biggest of commontions and social justice ran amok throughout the whole country, demanding the judge's resignation. SJWs are going to take us back to the middle ages, when pointing out someone with your finger was enough if you were from the right collective. On top of that, while all this was going on, a very similar case with very solid evidence about a 14-year-old girl being raped was swept under the rug by all the public media. You know why? Well, because the presumed perpetrators were immigrants that happened to be muslims. SJWs will never lunge at them. They are not islamophobes, after all ^^ They have social justice immunity. This is but a particular case from a wave of similar cases within this tendency. Just so happens that it was very close to home so it stuck with me.

Etc, etc, etc... While I obviously don't think they deserve more hate than xenophobic, sexist people and other -ics, -ists and -isms, they definitely do more harm that just write some bullshit on the internet.

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1 hour ago, Thyndd said:

 

You see, the thing is that we shouldn't really prevent any kind of humor or jokes from propagating. We need to prevent assholes, people trying to hurt and belittle others so they can feel better with themselves. I will stand by the claim that intention is much more important that you're making it out to be. For example, as I hope you realize, my intention is not to hurt you during this little quarrel of ours. However, try as I might, there's no way for me to get my point across while at the same time making sure that you won't be offended by anything I say. And to make things worse, it's often impossible to tell apart whether a someone's purposely willing to be offensive or is simply showing a not so well accepted opinion they firmly believe in. 

Being respectful and mindful of other people feelings should be a matter of basic education that everyone should've learnt during the first life stages from their parents or caretakers. Unfortunately this isn't always successful, and in that case, the people dealing with this now grown-up asshole will have to put up with it. You talk about "dicussing actual issues", but I'm afraid you might be forgetting that people's feelings are not real, objective issues. We are not children anymore, and something everyone should've also adquired while growing up is the emotional stability to be able to accept that people will often say stuff that will make us feel uncomfortable or even threatened. The extent to which this stuff can hurt you is entirely up to you.

Well, you can use a knife to cook a lovely dinner, or to backstab someone to death. As the knife manufacturer, I'm not accountable for any misuse or abuse. Furthermore, I find it interesting that you complain that playing along with this satire I help propagate an stereotype... while at the same time defending the innocent tumblr users that are not trying not hurt anyone. Perhaps you are not realizing how unintentionally harmful they are? And because it's unintentional, and being faithful and consistent with my own policy, I don't think they can be blamed for it, they are certainly not assholes, but heck, they are ones who make the most noise and spread a ridiculous stereotype that is then attributed to all the trans collective. They are most certainly not doing them any favor, and are unwillingly much more harmful that any attack helicopter meme out there, which started precisely as a reaction to their stupidity. 

It must be noticed that the masses are not exactly the most clever and thoughtful organism. You say that people are just always looking for a reason to make fun of and hurt others. That's a pretty depressing view, and one that I do not share. I just think that the masses are unable to separate between the great majority of the trans collective and some bullshit on the internet supported only by a minority. It's much easier to lump them all together and call it a day, especially it makes for an amusing topic of people who think they are blue whales or apache helicopters. Just like it was not the tumblr bloggers' intention to hurt the trans collective, I don't believe it's the masses intention either.

Yeah well, let's see, off the top of my mind:

-I know cases of teachers that have been harrassed and dismissed just for mentioning the biological differences between men and women, or because they addressed a student with the wrong pronoun, thus threatening their "identity" (SJWs feel very easily threatened, as it turns out).

-Thanks to SJWs, who unfortunately occupy ever bigger positions within the government, my country's included, the rule of law and penal code is upside down. The burden of proof have been reverted and nowadays if you are accused by a member of one of the "oppressed" collectives, you are expected to prove your innocence. 

-They are the biggest of hypocrites. Not so long ago in my country there was a presumed rape case carried by several local men. The judge however found very serious contradictions in the presumed victim's testimony, so, even though they were still sentenced to jail, the sentence was mitigated because of that. Needless to say this stired up the biggest of commontions and social justice ran amok throughout the whole country, demanding the judge's resignation. SJWs are going to take us back to the middle ages, when pointing out someone with your finger was enough if you were from the right collective. On top of that, while all this was going on, a very similar case with very solid evidence about a 14-year-old girl being raped was swept under the rug by all the public media. You know why? Well, because the presumed perpetrators were immigrants that happened to be muslims. SJWs will never lunge at them. They are not islamophobes, after all ^^ They have social justice immunity. This is but a particular case from a wave of similar cases within this tendency. Just so happens that it was very close to home so it stuck with me.

Etc, etc, etc... While I obviously don't think they deserve more hate than xenophobic, sexist people and other -ics, -ists and -isms, they definitely do more harm that just write some bullshit on the internet.

I disagree, on many levels. 

1. No, the Kooky Tumblr Dwellers are nowhere, NOWHERE as prominent as the entire "hurr sjws" demographic. And that demographic misrepresents marginalized people entirely. Because when someone comes across such a thing and asks why it's funny or what it's about, the answer is going to be "It's making fun of SJW's!", and then that's going to be connected to other, more important concepts, much like the exact thing you've done with your examples. The thing that catapulted these subcultures into prominence wasn't the subcultures themselves spreading aggressively, it was all the alt right YouTubers and shit posters going "HEE HEE LOOK AT THESE STUPID POOPY TUMLRINAS", often to an audience of thousands, even millions. And then since those people gave no shits about actual trans (etc.) issues (its just memes to them), they carried that hatred over to hating marginalized people overall.

2. I'm proposing that we keep assholes from hurting people by criticizing harmful jokes and cultural things. You cite really, really obscure Tumblr subcultures, but you seem to be unaware of how much casual bigotry and harassment there still is in many online spaces. And if you don't want to stop harmful jokes from propagating, then you're just enabling the people who perpetuate that harm in the first place. You can't eat your cake and have it still. Some shitheads getting to make shitty jokes is far less important than the well being of other people. 

3. You are blaming the victim. There will always be assholes, sure, but that doesn't suddenly mean that it's my fault or anyone else's fault that their assholery offends other people. That's fully, completely the asshole's fault. Pronouns are actually important facets of someone's identity, especially for a trans person, so you saying that that's "just the SJW's being really sensitive" proves my entire point. You were supposedly only criticizing Tumblr extremists, but now you're complaining about pronouns, a very fundamental thing about gender expression and trans identities. I'm very convinced that you actually are about trans people now.

4. Your knife analogy is incorrect. You use your own words and you communicate your own way. You're not a detached manufacturer, you're openly brandishing a knife because it's your knife, and you're walking in public with it, and you're saying it's someone else's fault if they bump into you and get a bleeding gash on their arm. A knife also has actual non-violent purposes, unlike these bigoted jokes, which only serve to mock people. Like it or not, you're responsible for the effect of the things you say, regardless of your intention. Regardless of intention, you can hurt people. 

5. You've done the exact thing you claimed you weren't. Your examples aren't just weird people on Tumblr talking about gender. No, you've fully started to claim they're in your government and all that jazz when the far right is globally on the rise. You're looking down upon someone for wanting their pronouns to be respected, and that's textbook transphobia. That's the exact sort of thing I was telling you about. "SJWs are stupid because they come up with weird things and want to take our freedom of speech away, it's not about marginalized people!" is how it starts, and now you're saying something that is fully transphobic and you're blaming the "sensitive SJW" for it. It's because how almost everyone who uses that word is like you, they blame other people for their own misconceptions (after ostracizing them for decades, trans people do not owe the rest of society any blame for how they're represented), they refuse to reevaluate their behavior and they fall back on harmful stereotypes while blaming the demographic itself for having it (because that weird community you talk of is far more welcoming to trans people than you'll ever be) and yet claim to respect trans people. 

6. It's almost funny to see someone claim a vast SJW conspiracy. It's not even been two years since the far right (and the alt right) surge started, with Trump getting elected (despite many sexual assault allegations) and Brexit passing its referandum, and yet somehow it's still the evil vile SJW's that is ruining everything. The same SJW's you complain of are the very people who unearthed the culture of sexual harassment and assault in Hollywood, in workplaces, elsewhere. The American president has nine sexual assault allegations against him (and a voice recording), who just nominated a judge for the supreme court who also has three allegations against himself. The point is that we're far from any point when we'll fear accusations are being abused, not when the general trend is that a lot of abuse that was being kept under wraps is getting uncovered. 

 

You've persuaded me of one thing, though. 

I don't want to be a part of Fuwanovel anymore. Because I know I'm in the minority when it comes to all of these ideas. I'll probably leave for good in a few days. 

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I could argue back and try to comment on every point, but really, we'll just be going back and forth for all eternity, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

3 hours ago, Funyarinpa said:

I don't want to be a part of Fuwanovel anymore. Because I know I'm in the minority when it comes to all of these ideas. I'll probably leave for good in a few days. 

I'm no so sure about your ideas being in the minority here, but since it's the first time I've taken part in a political discussion here I wouldn't know. What I do know is that even if everyone in Fuwa thought like you that wouldn't be a reason for me to leave, at least as long as when such rare occasions came around, people expressed their opinion politely (which I hope I was doing here, and if I came across as rude at any moment I apologize); after all, this is all about VN, and the political views of the members shoudn't be relevant at all. Well, of course in the end it's entirely up to you. 

Take care, if you decide to leave.

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Hello,

I'm sorry for hopping in... but I couldn't resist.

I've just 2 things to say:

- Although I can't count myself in the community, I indeed largely agree with Thyndd ; he's globally reasonable ; for me it's almost the same words that I would use when discussing religion.

 - about you leaving : I don't know you and I'm no one to stop you from doing anything, but again I've to declare I agree with Thyndd  : this is a mostly sympathetic community about VN, you needing to leave for a thread tells me a lot.

Please, don't be upset with me, I don't intend to be mean or aggressive. I'll put it as clearly as possible: don't leave for such a thing, agree to disagree. Oh, and sorry for my poor English.

Bredan

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Man, I don't even know why I always get myself in a mess, when I don't even care that much about politics to begin with and every time I do I make everyone angry, left people and right people, libertarian and democrats... :vinty: 

1 hour ago, Bredan said:

Although I can't count myself in the community

I guess now you can! Welcome to Fuwa! Don't let this thread scare you, this is as unusual as it gets around here. 

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6 hours ago, Funyarinpa said:

I don't want to be a part of Fuwanovel anymore. Because I know I'm in the minority when it comes to all of these ideas. I'll probably leave for good in a few days. 

You're overreacting, but TBH, you'll be in monority pretty much anywhere on the Internet with how far your views go. I consider myself pretty progressive and I'm probably closer to you than Thyndd on this, but it's not like the progressive groups don't create intellectual aberrations of various sort, probletic political demands and institutional biases (those are of course much stronger in the opposite directions, at least in most places, but still). Things for people to criticise and while many blow it out of proportion or misunderstand the severity of the position some minorities are in, they aren't without legit arguements. 

Fuwa is a pretty tolerant place and the VN fandom, at worst, have some very progressive niches that are friendly to all kinds of diversity. You won't find much better than this over the internet, unless you close yourself in some kind of narrow, progressive echo-bubble. And that is never a healthy thing to do. 

And with the Attack Helicopter meme, I find it both questionable and genuinely funny, because it touches on various identity groups (ex. otherkin) and their public demands of respect that I personally find ridiculous. It's an interesting question whether there can exist a society of unlimited noncomformity, but people who ask me to take into account their identity as a dragon or gender identification I can't decipher even after my extended contact with feminist literature aren't helping the ligitimate opressed groups in their fight. 

This game, however, probably have little to do with all that - I'd be surprised if it was more than just something playing on the absurdity of out-of-context memes.

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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Well, what do you know, I might as well be pretty progressive myself then, because I can't bring myself to disagree with anything @Plk_Lesiak said. Really, you just summed up pretty much everything I was struggling to express in a few lines.

32 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

it's not like the progressive groups don't create intellectual aberrations of various sort, probletic political demands and institutional biases (those are of course much stronger in the opposite directions, at least in most places, but still). Things for people to criticise and while many blow it out of proportion or misunderstand the severity of the position some minorities are in, they aren't without legit arguements. 

 

33 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

the Attack Helicopter meme, I find it both questionable and genuinely funny, because it touches on various identity groups (ex. otherkin) and their public demands of respect that I personally find ridicolous. It's an interesting question whether there can exist a society of unlimited noncomformity, but people who ask me to take into account their identity as a dragon or gender identification I can't decipher even after my extended contact with feminist literature aren't helping the ligitimate opressed groups in their fight. 

This is what I was referring to when I made the knife analogy. This meme can be either directed to a genuinely opressed collective, or towards the noisy minority making ridiculous claims and demands and giving said collective a really poor public image, hardly helping their cause. How you use it it's up to you, that's why it's a matter of intentionality. Denying such problematic political groups exist and are much more than just some crazy teens on tumblr is closing your eyes to the truth; at the same time I'm not denying that the other side of the coin also exists, where trans people and other minorities are overly discriminated. Where we might disagree is on the impact each of these problematic groups have on our society as a whole, and I'd be open to different opinions.

Well, on the one hand I find myself agreeing with a big chunk of this. On the other, I was called transphobic just a little while ago. I'm not sure what to think anymore :michiru:

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The attack helicopter meme was already unfunny a decade ago.

Spoiler

Yes, I know that the meme didn't exist 10 years ago. That's the joke.

The problem with jokes like these is that they're harmful regardless of their intent. It's like stepping on someone's foot and breaking their toe. The fact that you didn't intend to step on their foot doesn't change the fact that you broke their toe. You're still responsible for the hurt you caused that person.

And like it or not, emotional hurt is harmful to a person's well-being just like physical hurt is. Maybe not in the same ways, and not always to the same extent, but not everyone can just decide that having their identity mocked and invalidated doesn't affect them--nor do I think that people should have to make that choice. I'm not trans myself, but I am bi, and I've been told (or heard other bi people told) that I'm actually just a closeted lesbian, that I'm just a straight girl looking for attention, that everyone picks a side eventually, so on and so forth. It's exhausting to live in a world where people think that gay and straight are the only possible orientations out there when you're neither, and I don't think that I or any other bi/pan/ace/etc person should be responsible for others' decisions to be assholes. And likewise, if someone makes derogatory jokes about trans and/or non-binary identities (and like it or not, the attack helicopter meme is inherently disrepectful towards trans and non-binary people), people who are hurt by those jokes shouldn't be blamed for that hurt, and people who make those jokes shouldn't expect to say those things without receiving criticism simply because Free Speech. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

I'm not saying that being bi and being trans are the same thing (although obviously there are bi trans people out there), but in this particular issue they can be similar. I know plenty of trans and non-binary people both online and IRL, some of whom I consider dear friends, so I don't like watching people making fun of their identities.

In short, I agree with just about everything @Funyarinpa said.

Also, personally, I've never really took anything that complains about "SJWs" seriously, but there have been two incidents which have convinced me that the phrase has no meaning beyond "person I disagree with":

  • a Tumblr post years ago on which I witnessed people sincerely calling a neo-Nazi an SJW for saying "it's okay to be afraid of black people"
  • an argument I had on Reddit a few months ago where the other person called a right-wing group SJWs because their goal is social change

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I have heard the attack helicopter meme been used a few times though I do not really know the history of it or how it is mainly used. So far my interpretation of it has been that it is a joke that does't try to be offensive but rather just make a silly point. More like, sort of a you can be yourself and identify as whatever you want I don't give a damn. Of course I might be wrong and it might be used to insult them, but at least from the few times I heard it that was the impression I got.

Edited by bakauchuujin

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3 hours ago, lunaterra said:

In short, I agree with just about everything @Funyarinpa said.

Also, personally, I've never really took anything that complains about "SJWs" seriously, but there have been two incidents which have convinced me that the phrase has no meaning beyond "person I disagree with":

  • a Tumblr post years ago on which I witnessed people sincerely calling a neo-Nazi an SJW for saying "it's okay to be afraid of black people"
  • an argument I had on Reddit a few months ago where the other person called a right-wing group SJWs because their goal is social change

Aye, of course, but also consider that left does similar things, dilluting racism and misoginy into general slurs that slowly lose all meaning. There's little room for common sense and moderation in how polarized and emotionally-loaded the discussion is, especially on the internet.

The way you state your arguenent about Attack Helicopter meme reminds me of Funyarinpa's arguement why trap characters shouldn't be a thing - they perpetuate negative stereotypes about transgender people. I mean, maybe, but it doesn't mean that context and intent is irrelevant. Cross-dressing "trap" characters are usually not written as transsexuals and shouldn't be read at such, discussing the issue with other fans and shaming actually offensive cases feels more appropriate to me than raging against the whole trope. 

The Attack Helicopter meme was made by a guy to break gender identity discussions on a game chat - definitely a form of trolling, but not necessarily that malicious. People can easily get offended by it, but it was targeted above anything else against bizzare identity declarations made in inappropriate contexts. You can't reasonably argue that this kind of thing don't happen on the net. I believe that everyone deserves respect as a human being, but people's behavior is always up for criticism. Even if they find it offensive or insensitive - I'd never go out of my way to insult people, but if mocking Mormon lore or the fact some people identify as deers and ask people to accept it as a fact makes me an asshole, the are relatively few meaningful things that can be said without being one.

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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