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Maitetsu VN Discussion (Released at June 29th)


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2 hours ago, Hiashi said:

On a personal note, regarding the H-scenes, I feel that the translation could use some work. There were far too many lines that nearly made me burst out laughing rather than turn me on. Translating "chinchin" as "pee-pee" at first was one, the MC saying he wants to "beat that p*ssy up" is another.

Honestly, I feel like H-scenes in general are better if the writer isn't too creative with the translation.

Literal h-scene translations can be a problem too. I might just die if I have to read about a cock "clawing away at her inner walls" one more time. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if "beat that pussy up" was a literal translation too, based on how so many literal translations end up sounding more like snuff than sex.

I support creative translations in h-scenes, as long as the translator or editor actually understands what is and isn't erotic for english readers.

Here's an especially poignant line from Insem's Dracu-Riot translation. Warning: not mind safe.

Spoiler

Sometimes stopping and, as if prying open her flesh hole, twisting my hips and clawing at her depths.

Maybe this is hot for someone like @Dergonu, but not me. :P

Edited by Decay
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Setting aside the eternal debate of literal vs. reimagined, the example Hiashi provided is pretty cringy. Which is disappointing - what little I've seen of the non-h narrative so far, seemed alright (except for the odd swear shoehorned in without reason). Makes me wonder if they had someone else do the hscenes? Or someone that simply didn't really want to work on the hscenes, so said "fuck it" and just trolled the readers~

Edited by Suzu Fanatic
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I changed my stance on swearing in translations after learning a little bit more. The eye-opener for me was one episode of "Japanese Ammo with Misa". She explained, that there are basically almost no swear-words in Japanese, so when people want to sound rude, they use rude verb forms and pronouns like めえ etc. Now, in English there is no such thing as "rude verb form" - so to carry over that rude, offending sound, the best one can do is to add some swearing indeed - as that's the english-language way of being rude. When she translated some example rude conjugations to EN in her video, she did just that - making it like "f***n-<verb>".

Similarily, take めえ - while literal translation of the word is "you", it doesn't convey the rude character of the word at all. And you certainly don't want to put something like "You (rude, vulgar)!" in translation :P So, めえ would rather be translated as "You F***n POS!" or something like that - and while one could complain "Why they added words that weren't in the original?!" - that's correct.

Edited by adamstan
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Personally I'm through with the common route now and I really liked it from a visual standpoint. The game is namely an infodump about trains and that is something that doesn't appeal to everyone. Me neither actually, but getting to know things and widening your horizons is interesting. Maybe the game leads to me finding a cool train 3dpd girl that wants to talk about my "drain cock" (reference to the game) one day (*´∀`*)

Edited by EroHataVNI
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1 hour ago, EroHataVNI said:

Maybe the game leads to me finding a cool train 3dpd girl that wants to talk about my "drain cock" (reference to the game) one day (*´∀`*)

Remember correct cock usage is critical to avoid irreversible damage during power strokes due to fluid buildup. In fact it can cause worse damage than failure to apply lube to the rod.

 

The more I read about this VN, the more split I am about it. Technically it's seems more and more flawed the more I learn about it. At the same time the contents gets better and better. I too would love to find a cute girl who walks about raising pressure, different approaches of lube application and power stroke efficiency. Seems like I'm getting lured into doing the unthinkable: buy a VN despite knowing the translation is messed up. I might be in need of help to purify my mind.

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The translation isn't actually messed up just because 2-3 Lines are half translated. The game is translated very literally and thats fitting because it is a sole Infodump throughout. I really enjoy this personally though as the voiceline length matches the text. I think thats beautiful. Also they don't leave a away honorifics because frequent honorific switching is common and indicates that the characters get closer to each other. Apply the patch and buy the game I'd say. Maybe wait for a sale though if you are really unsure about it. The cuties lure you in :P

Especially Hibiki

maitetsu_01.jpg

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By the way, the scenario writer of that game is, probably, the most responsible guy, which I know, from all Japan. 

I think, if I will say the problems with English version to him, he is sad... 

So, I won't. He also wants players to enjoy this game.

Edited by Veshurik
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9 hours ago, adamstan said:

I changed my stance on swearing in translations after learning a little bit more. The eye-opener for me was one episode of "Japanese Ammo with Misa". She explained, that there are basically almost no swear-words in Japanese, so when people want to sound rude, they use rude verb forms and pronouns like めえ etc. Now, in English there is no such thing as "rude verb form" - so to carry over that rude, offending sound, the best one can do is to add some swearing indeed - as that's the english-language way of being rude. When she translated some example rude conjugations to EN in her video, she did just that - making it like "f***n-<verb>".

Similarily, take めえ - while literal translation of the word is "you", it doesn't convey the rude character of the word at all. And you certainly don't want to put something like "You (rude, vulgar)!" in translation :P So, めえ would rather be translated as "You F***n POS!" or something like that - and while one could complain "Why they added words that weren't in the original?!" - that's correct.

I can agree with some cases, sure - but tone of voice can convey the meaning of something like "You...." Unless a reader has voices turned off, inflection is a universal thing - anyone can tell when someone is angry, sad, happy, etc - pair that with the actual wording, and you got the intended meaning across, without adding words that could change the context and personality.

Though of course that can only really be applied to things with voices. non-voiced is a different matter - though even then things like "You..." wouldn't be that difficult to understand, if the reader understands the scenes intended mood. Besides, "rude verb form" is easy with things like "tch" - or if a writer is willing to put in a bit of extra work, elaborate with a description "so-and-so clicks there tongue in irritation" or "so-and-so growls in response"

As for swears in Maitetsu specifically, they are so infrequent it's not really an issue - beyond not fitting the initial meaning. A good example is Hibiki leaving in irritation from the room, and the MC says "Shit, looks like I screwed up this time" - but really, it would have fit his tone of voice (and words) a lot better with something like "Oops, guess she's mad huh?" The MC didn't even use an explicitive verb or sound in that sentence, so having a swear thrown in changes the tone of the sentence, and alters the readers perception of his personality to a tiny extent.

But like I said, it's so rare in this VN, I feel somewhat silly going into it, heh.

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59 minutes ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

I can agree with some cases, sure - but tone of voice can convey the meaning of something like "You...." Unless a reader has voices turned off, inflection is a universal thing - anyone can tell when someone is angry, sad, happy, etc - pair that with the actual wording, and you got the intended meaning across, without adding words that could change the context and personality.

Though of course that can only really be applied to things with voices. non-voiced is a different matter - though even then things like "You..." wouldn't be that difficult to understand, if the reader understands the scenes intended mood. Besides, "rude verb form" is easy with things like "tch" - or if a writer is willing to put in a bit of extra work, elaborate with a description "so-and-so clicks there tongue in irritation" or "so-and-so growls in response"

As for swears in Maitetsu specifically, they are so infrequent it's not really an issue - beyond not fitting the initial meaning. A good example is Hibiki leaving in irritation from the room, and the MC says "Shit, looks like I screwed up this time" - but really, it would have fit his tone of voice (and words) a lot better with something like "Oops, guess she's mad huh?" The MC didn't even use an explicitive verb or sound in that sentence, so having a swear thrown in changes the tone of the sentence, and alters the readers perception of his personality to a tiny extent.

But like I said, it's so rare in this VN, I feel somewhat silly going into it, heh.

Too bad translators only work with the scripts and never hear the voiced lines

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45 minutes ago, Kiriririri said:

Too bad translators only work with the scripts and never hear the voiced lines

It's pretty common to keep the game running in the background when translating, so you can check what's going on for context, be it voiced lines, CGs, what have you. I can't speak for other translators, but I'd never translate a game without having a copy of it at hand, in case I want to check something. 

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Fakku just announced that Sekai is waiting for a reply from Lose regarding some aspect of the fixes and "Things are happening". That's all. No ETA or any other details. However as little as it is, I'm actually fine with it. It's the first official statement that Sekai acknowledges the problem and is actively trying to do something about it.

Now if Sekai had said this once the community discovered the issues, then they would have avoided the severe backlash. Instead they waited two weeks. Also they let Fakku announce it, but if it only affects the 18+ version and Fakku is the only source of the 18+ version, I guess that's a valid option. Not perfect, but at least valid.

The more the unofficial patch (and 4chan) have discovered about the issues, the more it looks like a genuine mistake, one which most people/companies can make. The cutoff lines seems to be a bug in the script builder, most likely due to windows vs linux style of newlines. Any programmer exposed to both kinds in a set of files will have issues fairly frequently. I can forgive that mistake, though I really wonder about the pre-release testing, which failed to discover that some lines are cut off mid sentence. If we give Sekai the benefit of the doubt, it could be possible that it works in the Steam version and then they applied the 18+ patch, they tested the added scenes and never realized the 18+ contents broke something in all age scenes. A proper test would be a complete test of every single version they intend to release, but Steam, patched and direct 18+ makes 3 versions. Making a complete test of 3 versions is rather time consuming, meaning expensive with paid testers. Test one and assume that scene to work on all versions isn't farfetched, but apparently it failed.

What remain is PR: Sekai really blew this one. Why did it take two weeks (14 days and some hours) from community detecting issues until any announcement that there will be an official fix? They should have known that complete silence combined with a history of poor post-release support would create a publicity backlash. Surprisingly the silence might be the only issue where they are aware, but acted incorrectly because the rest can be a series of bad luck events, which both caused the issues and prevented testers from discovering them.

 

Sekai can claim one victory though. If it was a junk title, which people don't care about, then people would just move on and not complain. The fact that people got upset and that there is a (partial) fan patch out shows that they have a winner regarding the VN title.

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9 minutes ago, ittaku said:

Strange. Was this anticipated from their announcements? Is this the new norm? I've been reading raw JP for a while so I haven't been following what's been happening in the localisation world much.

Sekai Project never really pushed for mosaic free games but even they have at least 1 mosaic free title from what I remember.
Mangagamer seems to push for more mosaic free stuff but even they recently released 1 game with mosaics because sometimes you just can't get art without mosaics.
JAST (the old guys that were probably the only ones during your time) refuse to release anything with mosaics and this reason made them lose Baldr Sky license lol

+some other newer and smaller companies that just do whatever to stay relevant

but overall no mosaics is what people are pushing for but it is not a reason to not release a game anymore

 

In Maitetsu's case though everything is animated so getting it without mosaics would probably take huge amount of work too

Edited by Kiriririri
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1 hour ago, Kiriririri said:

Sekai Project never really pushed for mosaic free games but even they have at least 1 mosaic free title from what I remember.

I think their handeling of Chrono Clock is quite telling for their feelings regarding mosaics. First they just said that they couldn't get the non mosaic versions from purplesoft, don't remember the reason but I think it was either something like Purplesoft deleted them or they just weren't able to find them. Then Mangagamer announced Hapymaher which is an older VN than Chrono Clock and also made by Purplesoft and of course also released in english without mosaics. When people heard that Hapymaher would have the mosaics removed they started calling bullshit on SP and then suddenly Purplesoft had miraculously managed to find the old uncensored files. So I think we can be pretty sure that for SP to release without mosaics they need either the developers to really want removed mosaics themselves or that they get a large backlash and lack anything that they can blame the mosaics on. My guess is that they are just too lazy to do the work of implementing the uncensored files into the VN.

Edited by bakauchuujin
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1 hour ago, Kiriririri said:

Sekai Project never really pushed for mosaic free games but even they have at least 1 mosaic free title from what I remember.
Mangagamer seems to push for more mosaic free stuff but even they recently released 1 game with mosaics because sometimes you just can't get art without mosaics.
JAST (the old guys that were probably the only ones during your time) refuse to release anything with mosaics and this reason made them lose Baldr Sky license lol

+some other newer and smaller companies that just do whatever to stay relevant

but overall no mosaics is what people are pushing for but it is not a reason to not release a game anymore

 

In Maitetsu's case though everything is animated so getting it without mosaics would probably take huge amount of work too

Thanks. Well there's not much point in me getting English releases at all then unless the language is so hard I can't tackle it :\ I feel like going and buying a whole lot of stuff from JAST just to show how I feel about it... shame I don't like anything they have to offer now. As for animated or not, the mosaics are still added afterwards so I don't really think that's any different, emote or not. It's just a matter of getting their hands on the originals. It's only if they actively decensor it themselves that it's virtually impossible to do animated stuff. Sigh.

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Just finished the game, definitely a fun ride (pun intended). While I had a bit of difficulty keeping up with some of the technical and economic aspects of the story, it was highly enjoyable overall. The animated characters, music, and atmosphere provided a colorful experience that few other VNs can compare to. Though the game is infamously known for its controversial H-content, I would personally classify Maitetsu as an info-ge before a lolige considering how much descriptive information is given.

Not really a spoiler but

Spoiler

I thought that the Monobeno characters were supposed to make a cameo in the Grand route? Apparently, that's append content that SP didn't include. I was looking forward to seeing them too, oh well. 

 

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I finally decided to give Maitetsu a go. I'm still not happy with the way the release is officially handled, but at least we have the fan made patches now and it sounds interesting based on what other people have said so far. I'm mid scene 5 (as in still early) and so far I have to say I really like the story and characters.

However what's up with the info dumping? It sounds a bit like an Amerian otaku explaining Japanese high schools based purely on anime and VNs, but with trains instead of schools. To make matters worse, the translation is clearly done by people who had no prior knowledge of railroad operation or words related to it as a number of the concepts seems to be analogue translations (word by word translation) rather than using the existing English word for the same item/concept. Apparently whoever edited this didn't get the idea to google the concepts because they are easy to find online and well explained.

 

The intro makes little technical sense, but it works well for the storyline, so whatever.

Spoiler

It sounds like the train has problems braking because of poorly maintained tracks. Poorly maintained tracks will not have "this will go wrong in 30 seconds" scenario. It's acting like normal until it causes a derailment without warning. Rain has an effect, but unlike cars, train wheels will be a whole lot hitting the very same spot. The front wheels will act like "rail vipers", meaning the overall effect is less severe.

The instant reaction to having issues braking is to apply brakes to just before blocking. It's not "let's talk this over". The talk is kind of like a car heading for a tree and then people in the car discuss if they should brake or not while doing nothing while talking. In other words the conversation seems to be as much slapstick comedy as Laurel and Hardy would have made it.

Dripping steam exhaust. Steam exhaust is steam, which is blasted out of the chimney (actually called "funnel" on steam ships and locomotives), which is what causes the well known puffing sound. The water is unintended condensed steam, which has to be drained from the lowest points, usually cylinders. Those two are mixed up in the translation.

Hachiroku explains that an engineer drives a locomotive while a driver drives a railcar where the driver and passengers are in the same chassis. Attempts were made to call those two different names, but they never caught on. Engineer(US English) and driver(UK English) are 100% the same thing. Apparently they have different names in Japanese and for the sake of a translation we could have accepted this if used consistently. However the Kiha has an engineer (should be a driver according to the explanation) meaning the translation itself doesn't even use this explanation, which really makes the entire explanation pointless.

Steam engine vs steam locomotive: in US English engine and locomotive can be used interchangeably. However steam locomotive and steam engine can't. Steam engine is used for both steam locomotive and steam engine despite those two being different things. It's like an "all dogs are animals, but not all animals are dogs" kind of case.

Sidetrack: should be passing loop. Another note about this is the passing loop is being observed according to multiple lines in the text, yet there is clearly none in the CG, making it even more confusing.

Diagram, emergency diagram: while technically correct, it's horribly explained and I would suspect nobody understands it without having seen a diagram prior to reading what they wrote. Trains crossing at passing loops is a name, which makes no sense in the text because it doesn't mention that each train has a line on the diagram and the trains meet when the lines crosses each other on the diagram. You can read more about diagrams here. I assume emergency diagrams are new plans made up to recover from unexpected events (broken train blocking a track or whatever).

Driving plan: sounds like schedule/timetable to me.

Engineer room, driver stand: actually called cab (US English) or footplate (UK English).

It's mentioned a Kiha 07 is stronger than it looks and can be used for freight. I looked it up and I pity whoever tries to use it for freight. It weights 27 tons, yet delivers just 150 hp of continuous power. If that wasn't bad enough, it's diesel mechanic (transmission/clutch like a car). Railroads always tries to avoid clutches because they doesn't work with the torque needed for starting multi car trains. A Kiha 07 has room for 125 passengers and that's it. It looks like a decent budget passenger transport when it was new in 1934, but freight is completely out of the question.

The station sign is made of wood, yet it's unreadable due to rust?

 

The list will likely be longer the more I read, but the actual length is kind of besides the point. Somehow I feel like this is a missed opportunity for teaching VN readers about railroads. Ironically I learn more from online studying/crosschecking than I did reading the VN itself, which is obviously not good considering the VN actually does a serious attempt in teaching something. While it's popular to bash Sekai for Maitetsu, I really do get the feeling that at least some of the issues exist in the Japanese version as well, particularly the mismatch between CG and text and explaining a diagram without graphics. There is also the issue of picking specific concepts to explain rather than starting with the overall picture, which is clearly an issue from the Japanese version.

 

I wonder who the target audience is for Maitetsu. Somehow it seems better suited at getting train otakus into VNs than it is getting regular VN readers into the world of the train otaku. Just think about it. If the reader is a train otaku already, the overall picture doesn't matter and the info dumping will explain stuff where the reader goes "oh I know that. Feels familiar" and suddenly the step into VNs is not as big as it would be with other VNs. The story about preserving heritage trains (or imperial railroad if you like) also sounds like an epic tale for train otakus. I have no idea if it has worked in Japan, but at least it's a nice attempt. The English version will however not be able to really attract railfans because the translation quality of railroad specific words is way too amateurish.

 

Despite my harsh words here I do like the VN and none of those issues will make me stop reading. The main question regarding a VN is "do you enjoy the time you spend reading it?" and from that perspective it's actually one of the best I have encountered in years. Despite the flaws it's actually still a decent VN, both in story and visuals. I just wish it had a better quality translation.

 

Note: I intentionally skipped mentioning raillords or aircra because they do not aim to be realistic. The railroad infodump however tries to be accurate, hence should be evaluated for the quality of such an attempt.

 

EDIT: found a math problem. It says 500/2=277. More specifically 500 kg of coal weights the same as 277 two liter bottles. Apparently whoever wrote that has little insights in the metric system because 1 liter = 1 kg (for water) is one of the cornerstones in understanding why the metric system is vastly superior to any other measuring system ever used.

Edited by tymmur
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I figured out the meaning of Reina's talk about engine upgrade.

Spoiler

Heavy vehicles are all about torque, which is the forward force delivered by the engine. Horsepower is the ability to keep delivering torque at high speed. You need lots of torque to accelerate something heavy or go uphill with something heavy (because gravity subtracts from the resulting torque). To put it simple, for a train torque sets the steepest hill it can climb while horsepower determines the speed it can climb with.

Kiha-07 has a dry clutch, which is two spinning discs pushed together by springs (your car is like that too). There is a tiny slip, meaning the engine side turns a little bit faster. This causes friction, which in turn creates heat. The more torque, which is transferred, the more slip which means more heat.

Kiha 07 was converted from gasoline to diesel. Not only did it give it more horsepower, diesel provides more torque for each horsepower due to longer stroke (movement distance of pistons). This must have made it a lot better at hill climbing (very useful for Japan), but it also increased the slip in the clutch. The result is apparently a clutch with a tendency to overheat and then that happens, the only option is to put the gear in neutral and let it cool. While it sounds like a bad design, climbing a hill and then take a cooling break is better than not being able to climb the hill at all.

 

How does this affect the story? When the clutch overheats, the engine can't work until the clutch has cooled down and without a working engine, Reina falls asleep.

It makes perfect sense, but really, shouldn't you be able to figure this out from the VN itself without prior knowledge about engines? Once again it's a really nice idea, which is severely overshadowed by poorly written text/translation. Admittedly unlike the other issues I mentioned, this one is not easy to google, meaning at least translator and editor have valid excuses for missing this one.

5 hours ago, adamstan said:

Indeed, trains were what drawn me to Maitetsu. Fortunately I'm not too familiar with english railway nomenclature, so I hope it won't bugger me too much :) I'll be reading all-ages version.

It's not just a question of recognizing words you have seen before. It's a question of understanding what the text is trying to tell you.

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