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How do you honestly feel about President Trump?


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5 hours ago, Satsuki said:

Geez...not sure if bringing politics in here is a good idea...

It's not, but many things we do in life aren't. :meguface:

6 hours ago, tymmur said:

In short calling Trump a dictator or the new Hitler or anything like that is as farfetched as calling the democrats alien reptilians, who have come to take over the planet. There are people like that on both sides and while they work hard on getting attention, we better not give it to them. I view it mainly as a variation of trolling.

Yup, definitely. At least as long as the limitations system presupposes work properly. Democracy is a fragile thing, only working as long as most actors are playing by the rules. I know it painfully well from my own coutry where the current goverment pretty much disregards the constutitional order whenever it becomes inconvienient for them. The president and many of the ruling party's top officials should be in prison for it, but who will do something about if they control the parliament and consistently tighten their grip on the judiciary? US system might be more mature and stable than Polish, but we can't be sure how much abuse it can take. Plus having someone you know is able and willing to do some horrible shit at the most powerful position in the government and hoping that institutional constraints will prevent him/her from going that way is still a pretty horrible situation (pretty much panic-worthy IMHO). After all, Trump doesn't have to go Pol Pot to do some lasting damage to the US and the World. Just look how much we're dealing with shit initiated by Goerge W. Bush (or even some poor desitions of Obama years like the intervention in Libya and supporting Syrian rebels) and he wasn't even a bad actor, just an easily-manipulated moron.

Edited by Plk_Lesiak
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Well, I live in Europe so I am not that well versed in everything that happens in the USA, but I did write a BA thesis on his political career. The more I tried to analyse what he says, the more I reached a conclusion that he is an egoistic, self-centered, perverted racist with a pride and god complex of a third rate villain. 

That was just from my personal analysis of his public speeches, but when you look at real situation it doesn't feel that far off. His entire political campaign and election process was filled with scandals and most of his political speeches were ether discriminating certain groups, for example women, or directly insulting. His political ideology is directly an opposite of what previous generations wished America to be. Everyone who says something that he does not like (like polls on TV) are lying,. Heck, even his own party is crumbling. How many of group have left since he became a president? 

The way I see it, his supporters now can be divided into 4 groups:

  1. misinformed people;
  2. racists;
  3. those who find him easy to manipulate/those to whom he is useful;
  4. idiots.
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Understand, even if it wasn't Trump, the grass roots movements on the right would have eventually put some other populist idiot (since populists are either evilly ambitious, stupidly idealistic, stupid, or all three) in the president's office.  The results probably wouldn't have been as spectacularly bad, but the GOP has been headed for something like this since 2010, when they made the mistake of thinking that it was a good idea to embrace the Tea Party elements.  If the GOP dies in the next ten years, it will be because they got too greedy back in 2010, not just because Trump is in office.

Trump himself was a spectacularly bad choice of president.  However, the people who make up most of the right's current base aren't exactly known for thinking clearly.  I mean, these are the people who believe megachurch evangelists are being Christian pastors when they say 'god loves rich people', lol.

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1 hour ago, Satsuki said:

Geez...not sure if bringing politics in here is a good idea...

I try to be objective, partly to avoid a flamewar and partly because I will not defend either side as there are flaws in both. It goes downhill quickly when people loses objectivity. Latest we have somebody admitting to not know about all the issues going on in America, yet knows the answers anyway and if people don't agree, they are racist idiots.

36 minutes ago, Sparteh said:

His political ideology is directly an opposite of what previous generations wished America to be.

Interesting statement about the candidate who refers to the constitution and states the founding fathers did a great job and that it's important to keep what they made. Particularly considering the alternative being a blue candidate, who wants to "modernize" the constitution.

I have to say that the addition of somebody with a BA in the topic should be a welcome addition, but so far the contribution seems to be one of the reasons Trump has gained the support he has. When people have titles like that and basically states how people should be thinking without explaining why, only that failing to do so makes them bad people, then the people it's aimed at will respond with going the opposite direction. In 2015 it would be completely unthinkable that a large group of people take pride in calling themselves deplorable, yet that is precisely what we ended up with and it's mainly due to the attitude we see here.

 

If you want to say something negative about Trump, you should make sure you have evidence to back it up. Take for instance shale gas. Trump has stated that he has the policy to make America not rely on imported energy and shale gas plays a role in this plan. At the same time he has ordered the EPA to focus on clean air and clean water. Since shale gas is extracted by pumping toxic liquids into the ground to cause cracks, to release the gas pockets (hence the name fracking), it is suspected of leaking those chemicals into the ground water, which in turn is used as drinking water, you can't have both shale gas and clean water as goals.

See, now I pointed out a contradiction in the Trump policy. Both goals are official policies and should be available on government web sites if you look hard enough. Shale gas extraction is highly disputed because it's very profitable and those with a lot of money at stake tend to make reports telling it's safe. Other people are less sure and have evidence in other directions. Some have also pointed to fracking as the reason for increased number of earthquakes in the drilling areas, though to my knowledge nobody have managed to provide evidence to proof or deny this.

If you can provide backup for your statements, then people will listen. If you state you have some title and then people are idiots for not taking your word for what you say, then you will cause a conflict because that will not convince people you disagree with.

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On 4/29/2018 at 6:59 PM, Dreamysyu said:

:amane: The best way to make any community toxic is to start making threads about politics.

Lol.  

7 hours ago, Satsuki said:

Geez...not sure if bringing politics in here is a good idea...

Don’t be so cynical guys. I just wanna hear a legit argument from someone who happens to support or not support Trump. In fact, ins’t NK and SK ending the war, politics? Not to mention Japan banning discussion of sex, politics? This forum has been talking about politics for a long time. So, when I bring up Trump, now it’s like, “Oh shoot, maybe should’nt talk about this.” I completely understand where you guys are coming from, but we’re all civil-minded people here.

 

(I am glad I read the history of Fuwa, because I now know there has been worse discussions that have been locked and buried beneath the mantle over the years.)

We’re not going to let the mere possibly of a silly flame war to get in the way of our community.

 

That’s why I put this topic originally in General Discussion, but it seems that the gods of Fuwa moved this topic maybe because it could be troll bait since @1P1A‘s legendary shitpost. (That’s one of the best shitposts I read on Fuwa yet.) 

 

Thank you @tymmur for explaining why people still support trump and his accomplishments. I swear you and @Plk_Lesiak keep making these high-quality posts. :D

 

I would like to thank @Okarin for giving his take. I never really thought of it that way, because honestly I haven’t really thought to much of it. So thank you. 

I sincerely apologize if I came across as kinda off-putting but c’mon guys. 

Edited by Happiness+
Grammar.
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34 minutes ago, Happiness+ said:

Don’t be so cynical guys. I just wanna hear a legit argument from someone who happens to support or not support Trump. In fact, ins’t NK and SK ending the war, politics? Not to mention Japan banning discussion of sex, politics? This forum has been talking about politics for far long a time. So, when I bring up Trump, now it’s like, “Oh shoot, maybe should’nt talk about this.” I completely understand where you guys are coming from, but we’re all civil-minded people here.

I seriously considered not replying at all. Mentioning Trump has become something like walking into a bar and announce "I'm looking for a fight". It doesn't really matter what you say because there will always be somebody on the other side, which will view you as a reincarnation of the devil and fight you.

However the question justifies a proper answer. I assume a lot of people honestly don't know because of media bias. I have seen the Daily Show being presented as "a new documentary to tell who is voting for Trump". Just mentioning that it's a "documentary" made by Comedy Central and you should take a hint that it's actually something staged, which is intended to make people laugh. If something like that can make it into the news, then it's no wonder that people don't get why anybody sane could support Trump.

 

I have to say things didn't turn out as bad as I expected. I feared 10 people would say a lot of not so nice things because of my attempt to stay neutral and tell objectively (that has happened elsewhere). In fact nobody resorted to name calling or calling forum users stupid and only one objected to what I wrote, but did so in a civilized manner. I have to say I'm really positively surprised. You guys acted more mature than most online communities.

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Well then, guess I will just jump in...

As Stephen Colbert once said, it almost feels like Trump became the President just to see how much he can screw the US before people are fed up and kick him out. He is a narcissist liar that always makes everything to be about him and take credit for everything that he did or did not do. A cyber bully that openly attacks everyone who dares to displease him (that reminds me, how is that anti-cyber bullying campaign going, Melania?). A con artist of a businessman with absolutely no experience in politic (hence all those horrible decisions regarding...well...everything). And most of all, a trigger-happy warmonger that may very well ignite WW3 in the near future.

There is a reason why his staff's turnover rate is so damn high: People started losing patience and could no longer deal with all of his BS.

 

Some people may think that I'm affected by right wing "fake news" media, but no, I don't need those. Just Youtube and his own Twitter is plenty enough. Also, Polifact.

Edited by Satsuki
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18 hours ago, Happiness+ said:

Don’t be so cynical guys. I just wanna hear a legit argument from someone who happens to support or not support Trump. In fact, ins’t NK and SK ending the war, politics? Not to mention Japan banning discussion of sex, politics? This forum has been talking about politics for a long time. So, when I bring up Trump, now it’s like, “Oh shoot, maybe should’nt talk about this.” I completely understand where you guys are coming from, but we’re all civil-minded people here.

Well, yeah, I guess I forgot how surprisingly civil Fuwa is about its political discussions. Even including all the posts hidden by the moderators, it's still way better than basically any other community I follow. In most of them even mentioning something political would just lead to a massive shitstorm which will result in one or two prominent members leaving forever. :makina: And, by the way, I completely forgot about it, but this is not the first thread about Trump on this forum.

 

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I'm no fan of Trump, neither was I a fan of Hillary, probably would have voted for some third party candidate if I lived in the US. But while I'm no fan of Trump I also don't like the way any media I have encountered reports on him, I don't think it will lead to anything other than increasing segregation between groups, which does not serve the people at the very least.

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53 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

Well, yeah, I guess I forgot how surprisingly civil Fuwa is about its political discussions. Even including all the posts hidden by the moderators

To my knowledge this thread haven't got any hidden posts. That's one of the reasons I praise people and stated that I'm positively surprised.

54 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

I completely forgot about it, but this is not the first thread about Trump on this forum.

I didn't know about that thread. It has some interesting insightful statements, such as "Nobody deserves Trump and Trump never had a chance at getting elected, given the demographics and his personality.". There is a big difference between that thread and this one in the sense that this one started out as a honest question, one which deserves to be answered. It didn't really derail from that topic. There are a few posts, which could start a flame war (particularly one saying people are racist idiots if they disagree), but nobody took the bait. In other words it's a single thread with a single purpose while the other thread is from 2016 and is merged from 6 threads and as such posts have little in common besides being about Trump.

 

I would like to point out that this thread is about President Trump. The other thread is about candidate Trump. That in itself is a major difference.

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