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The korean war is over.


mitchhamilton

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Or rather they can now invade Japan together and take over the eroge industry as war reparations for WW 2. Would be interesting, Korean VNs are pretty cool. :mare:

It is super-interesting though and I absolutely don't understand where North Korea is going with this. I didn't think I would live to see a formal peace agreement in my life as long as the NK dictatorship is in place. We'll see whether it's anything more than an empty gesture to solicit economic concessions from the South Korea and the West. I have little hope in that regard, but let's not be overly pessimistic... 

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It's great that some semblance of peace has finally come to light in the Korean Peninsula, but I fear for the situation in the rest of the world. Far in the west, in the Americas, a belligerent, jingoistic United States has its salivating visage locked onto the Middle East; beyond the former Iron Curtain to the East, mother Russia looms over Eastern Europe like a crazed den mother.

War is hell, and casualties are everywhere. Soldiers, their brothers-in-arms, their mothers at home; all suffer and lament and cry out in pain and writhe and die. 

In these post-apocalyptic scenarios, these casualties are always considered. The human element and our compassion for fellow man is contained. But war and the waste of resources in its name kills something far more important to all of us here than any human: 2D anime porn. No doubt Moon Jai-In and Kim Jong-Un have recognised this, and that their proximity to Japan endangers its production, and thus made peace. I only hope that the rest of the world can do the same before we have to live in a world where I cannot walk in on underaged  18 year old anime girls while they're in the dressing room or on the toilet.

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3 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

It is super-interesting though and I absolutely don't understand where North Korea is going with this. I didn't think I would live to see a formal peace agreement in my life as long as the NK dictatorship is in place.

I see multiple reasons why NK wants something to change.

 

First of all, their nuclear weapons program might have serious issues. They explode deep inside a mountain and apparently they caused a bunch of cracks and now it's collapsing, causing earthquakes without detonating anything. One tunnel collapsed and they sent in people to rescue the 200 lost people. This resulted in another collapse where they lost another 200. To my knowledge they haven't detonated anything since that incident.

 

NK is starving and relies heavily on food from the outside world. Most of the food eaten in NK has US flags on it, though the population is unaware of the meaning of that symbol. However the leadership is likely aware of what would happen should the food supplies stop arriving.

 

When China gained a new president, he went on a tour of neighboring countries. He started with SK, then NK before moving on to other countries. Kim Jung Un got furious because he had to be first and he was not to talk to SK at all and there is no way a plane should be allowed to go directly between SK and NK. The Chinese president didn't like getting orders from NK and China has been less friendly with NK ever since.

 

Trump has made UN make severe restrictions to oil exports to NK to avoid oil from being used for the nuclear weapons program. This gave rise to oil smugglers, which US detected from satellite and SK sent the navy and captured two tankers. While smuggling pays well, it doesn't pay enough to justify losing ships and NK is now low on oil.

 

Their threats towards Trump doesn't work. He make replies making it sound like he is ready to attack. That has never happened before and they might not know what to do with that situation. Going to war against a super power without food or oil and with a ruined nuclear program is not a good idea.

 

Movies have been smuggled from South Korea into North Korea through China for years. However while it used to be VHS tapes, it's now micro SD cards and once inside, they are easier to copy. It's also possible to add more than just movies. Technology has caught up with NK and the population is getting aware of how the outside world is really like. A high ranking officer, who deflected has recently stated that the growing unrest in the population mean that unless the government makes big changes, a revolution could break out within a year because the population is at a breaking point and they can't be suppressed back to the state they were in just a few years ago now that they have gained more knowledge.

 

There is a limit to how effective their military is against the population because soldiers are also part of the population with family outside the military. Like Ukraine, a small uprising can turn big in no time because a significant number of soldiers will side with the population (read: own family) and change side. Also using the military against civilians will force UN to react like they did with Libya.

 

In short: the NK government has to do something. What they have to do in order to stay in power for years to come is a good question and odds are that they don't know the answer and is just trying something because it can't be any worse than not doing anything.

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One of the most notorious dictatorships in the world ...... making peace?

Maybe there's hope for us yet.

17 minutes ago, tymmur said:

Their threats towards Trump doesn't work. He make replies making it sound like he is ready to attack. That has never happened before and they might not know what to do with that situation.

Should we be .... THANKING Trump in this case?

Well, I'm already thanking Trump in my own way. For unwittingly acting as a catalyst for future change...

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1 minute ago, r0xm2n said:

One of the most notorious dictatorships in the world ...... making peace?

Maybe there's hope for us yet.

Should we be .... THANKING Trump in this case?

Well, I'm already thanking Trump in my own way. For unwittingly acting as a catalyst for future change...

wish i could like AND react with a haha. why you so cruel, tay? :kosame: 

 

AND WHEN IS THE PM ISSUE GOING TO BE FIXED?! :reeee: 

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1 hour ago, mitchhamilton said:

as the title says. Moon Jai-in and Kim jong un have come to an agreement to end the korean war. now theyll set their sights on america and bomb us together! \ :mare: /

 

was that racist? hope it wasnt. 

Why am I just now reading about this from Fuwa of all places?

 

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Quite a hard topic to discuss at VN forum here lol. That said, I also a bit of confused though why that NK suddenly propose peace agreement after their actions, especially when Kim Jong Un did many controversial actions recently that involved get rid of his family members because they have different opinion. So maybe what Tymmur said about hidden potential motive might be true, but regardless of Kim Jong Un motive for his action I hope that something good will come from this, and especially for the sake of Korean citizenship whose already separated fo almost 65 years.

Edited by littleshogun
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12 minutes ago, solidbatman said:

what a stupid thread with a middle school level of historical understanding. 

Your words strike true, sire, but I implore you to impart your own wisdom upon the thread. As I understand it, you are a man of letters. This is an excellent opportunity to educate the indigenous population of retards here, better known as Fuwanovelers, including myself.

Edited by Zander
It turns out "an ample opportunity" is incorrect usage, further confirming my low IQ
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1 hour ago, r0xm2n said:

America is merely the closest thing we have to "the greatest country on earth". Currently. I'm not saying this because I'm patriotic (I'm not the most patriotic, and I'm not even American).

If we can kick out the special interest groups that are more or less running the government, then America will be much closer to it's original vision. Correcting some of it's foreign policy will also go a long way.

yeah the original vision of an agrarian empire with slavery from coast to coast? or the original vision of a commercial elite with the disinterested best men of society running the show? 

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5 hours ago, tymmur said:

I see multiple reasons why NK wants something to change (...).

 

Aye, you made some good points, but still, the rhetoric used by Kim is quite shocking from my perspective. Going to CNN site I've quickly realized both sides just "pledged" to work towards a peace agreement, but if it's not a complete ruse on NK's side, it means they must truly be desperate... Or maybe even if it is a ruse, it's going much further than Kim would normally allow himself to go. When a state relied for the last 60 years on mass terror and the propaganda of perpetual war with the South it's hard to imagine it reforming in a way that would make a lasting peace feasible. But even talking about it seems like a revolutionary act. NK is more or less a giant concentration camp - if anything can change there for the good without the whole system collapsing, I will be just as shocked as I'd be happy for people living there...

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I'd like to see this be a real end for the troubles on the Korean Peninsula... but the likelihood of this being a permanent solution is very, very low.  Part of this is that NK can't afford for peace to visibly break out.  It is only the existence of the 'virtual enemies' (the US and their Southern neighbors) that has allowed the regime to hold onto power for so long.  As such, cynic that I am, I'm suspicious that he might just be using this to give him a chance to rebuild while immediately going back to his old policies the first chance he gets... 

Realistically, NK has to find a way to stabilize its food and fuel situations, above all other things.  This provides an opportunity to do so, and if sanctions cease, they will also have a chance to legitimately obtain technologies that might allow them to make strides toward resolving those problems in the long term, as well as the short term.  Unfortunately, it is questionable whether the regime will have the patience to take the long view on things, and their stated goal of 'reuniting the homeland' has not been officially set to the wayside, despite the talks. 

Another issue is that I honestly can't see Trump keeping his mouth shut.  He is constitutionally incapable of not claiming credit for anything positive and spreading blame for anything negative.  He is also incapable of just being quiet for long, in general.  If he leaves it to his Secretary of State (the new one), there might be real progress to repairing (or just building) the US as well as SK relations with NK.  The likelihood of that is abysmally low, however. 

As for issues with Japan... while the Imperial Household itself has a stated (indirectly and in a generalistic fashion, as has become traditional since WWII) aversion to historical revisionism, the government and society in general isn't.  Nationalism and historical ignorance are on the rise in Japan, and the current leadership are sadly very much in line with that trend (probably because they've gone through so much effort to create it).  While we can depend on Japan's government to want the US presence there as a shield for the foreseeable future, if SK agrees to throw out the US presence (something a surprising number of citizens want), you could see things become a lot more unstable there rather quickly.  Worse, China might decide to take drastic measures in order to reduce the US presence on the mainland of Asia (to be specific, they might encourage territorial ambitions from NK if the US withdrew from SK). 

In other words, peace on the peninsula is a potential powder keg for the region... at least, that's how I see it. 

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This is not the first time NK has made overtures of peace. They did it with Kim Dae Jung and Noh Moo Hyun and there's nothing to say for sure they're not trying it again. Until the DMZ is officially demilitarized and they send the soldiers home, the war is still on. 

The US aren't going to leave Korea, the Chinese military presence is way too strong. Seriously, look at what kind of crap they're up to in the South China sea, and their frequent skirmishes with other nations navies. They just keep prodding and poking for the proverbial chink in the armor and as long as Trump doesn't pull US forces out of this area, they'll be kept at bay. 

As much as I want peace on the peninsula if for my parents sake (they both live in Korea and I'm in China now), I'm viewing this world event with some intense skepticism. Got to be honest though, I spent a majority of my childhood and college years in Korea, and have lived with the thread of NK for so long that most people don't even consider them much of a threat. 

(also, keep in mind that most of SK men have undergone military service and still train even into their middle ages, so Korea's got a huge army, reserve or otherwise. Regardless, the US isn't going to withdraw their troops and SK isn't going to ask them, they're not fucking stupid.)

 

 

 

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I don't trust NK and honestly I don't see how anything could be improving geopolitically in this hellscape that is our current situation.

(Living in Turkey, I've seen our president claim the economy's glorious while our currency's plummeting in value while we took in 3 million Syrian refugees (a good thing!) and then see our government try to use the very same refugees as bartering chips for visas with the EU, an occupation in Syria that I'm not sure if is perpetuating or eradicating terrorism, while Trump and Putin still do their well-known shit.)

But I hope this is just me being edgy

 

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49 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

I don't trust NK and honestly I don't see how anything could be improving geopolitically in this hellscape that is our current situation.

(Living in Turkey, I've seen our president claim the economy's glorious while our currency's plummeting in value while we took in 3 million Syrian refugees (a good thing!) and then see our government try to use the very same refugees as bartering chips for visas with the EU, an occupation in Syria that I'm not sure if is perpetuating or eradicating terrorism, while Trump and Putin still do their well-known shit.)

But I hope this is just me being edgy

 

You have to keep in mind that people who believe in the distant past being a 'golden age' for their 'conservative points of view', regardless of the reality, don't exactly have a solid sense of reality.  People like Erdogan have a tendency to believe their own propaganda... Nationalism isn't necessarily a bad thing, but nothing good comes from excessive nostalgia for a past that's never going to return (and was never what you think it was). 

NK has similar problems... except worse.  The leadership has been reassuring itself of its correctness and the inevitability of a glorious future for so long that separating out reality from the dream is now impossible.  This is true of any country that starts spouting idealism of any sort, but it is particularly true for nations going into a period of xenophobic nationalism (or who never left one).  You can see signs of similar behavior in just about every nation on the planet right now... the only difference is whether the wannabe directors of those forces are in charge or not.

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5 hours ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Aye, you made some good points, but still, the rhetoric used by Kim is quite shocking from my perspective. Going to CNN site I've quickly realized both sides just "pledged" to work towards a peace agreement

I fully agree that NK is not to be trusted and will likely turn around should they believe they will benefit from doing so. However at the same time I question the objectivity of a major Clinton donor when it is reporting on anything related to the president. In fact the way things are going these days it would be right to question every single media for bias because I can't think of any unbiased media at all.

4 hours ago, Clephas said:

Unfortunately, it is questionable whether the regime will have the patience to take the long view on things, and their stated goal of 'reuniting the homeland' has not been officially set to the wayside, despite the talks.

Reuniting Korea would be a disaster. The problem is that the majority of people alive today in NK and SK grew up in very different countries, with very different cultures and education. Even worse, they grew up to hate each other, or maybe mainly NK to hate SK. My prediction is that if SK includes NK and the whole of Korea becomes like SK where people can travel freely everywhere, it will result in a gigantic problem with crime in SK. People from NK will go to SK, see the wealth, think SK stole it from NK and they will be upset and feel it's justified to be violent and steal stuff. It's not like everybody in NK will act like that, but even 1% of the population would be able to cause a huge problem.

I base this prediction partly on what I was told in Germany. I only had contact with people who lived in the west prior to the unification, but multiple people independently from each other told about severe issues caused by people who moved in from east. Anything from severe violence and theft to just plain don't get that they disturb neighbors by having a loud party outdoors until sunrise and throwing garbage in public. The latter is something at least some of them don't get is a problem even when told. Again I would like to think it's far from everybody growing up in DDR, who acts like that today, but apparently enough do so to cause a problem.

4 hours ago, Clephas said:

Another issue is that I honestly can't see Trump keeping his mouth shut.  He is constitutionally incapable of not claiming credit for anything positive and spreading blame for anything negative.  He is also incapable of just being quiet for long, in general.

I question that statement. I kind of think of Trump as Jack Sparrow in the sense that he does a lot of stuff, which seems impulsive and unplanned, but when you review it later, it was like "did he really plan that to happen? I totally didn't see that coming". In the art of the deal, he says you have to be unpredictable or the other side will predict your actions and start counter measures even before you start. Trump is intentionally being completely unpredictable in order to take political opponents by surprise and there is clearly more planning and strategy to his actions than first meets the eye. He is actually surprisingly good at reaching his goals. Sure sometimes he has goals I disagree with, but that's besides the point right here. His main goal regarding NK is to ensure NK will not be a threat to the US. Secondary goal is to secure allies and trade/finances. I agree with those goals (I think we all do) and I find it unlikely that he will ruin the peace due to stupidity.

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13 hours ago, tymmur said:

First of all, their nuclear weapons program might have serious issues. They explode deep inside a mountain and apparently they caused a bunch of cracks and now it's collapsing, causing earthquakes without detonating anything. One tunnel collapsed and they sent in people to rescue the 200 lost people. This resulted in another collapse where they lost another 200. To my knowledge they haven't detonated anything since that incident.

Well, while this does make sense why they would want to end their nuclear program after that, I honestly can't see this information even remotely reliable. Where did you learn it, by the way?

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2 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

Well, while this does make sense why they would want to end their nuclear program after that, I honestly can't see this information even remotely reliable. Where did you learn it, by the way?

You learn stuff by reading newspapers daily. In fact I read multiple to try to compensate for political bias.

There are two sources for this. One is USGS, who have measured vibrations from major explosions worldwide since the cold war. It turns out their system works really well for detection earthquakes as well, which is what they are best known for today. They do measure and analyze all vibrations from the NK test site and are able to tell when it's active. They claim to be able to tell the difference between detonations and collapsing tunnels, which is likely based on duration and stuff like that. They claim they started to see the mountain collapsing and making many minor earthquakes as gravity makes it slide downwards along cracks. This is a generally very trustworthy source. It's fairly common that they have better measurements of earthquakes than the countries they take place in because of their widespread net of detectors, which really does provide a detailed view everywhere in the world.

The other source is somebody in NK telling somebody outside NK, which then reported to America... or something. You know, spies. It's most likely less trustworthy, but the report matches the measurements done by USGS. The question is if it is true that they lost 400 people, but it's very possible that they did and we don't know who they lost. For all we know they might have lost the main researchers. The fact that USGS haven't picked up new manmade activity is certainly a sign of something is not going according to plan.

Another fact worth mentioning is that when Trump pushed for cutting oil to NK in UN, the main argument is that the nuclear program apparently relies heavily on oil in its current state. If this is true, it could be stopped due to low fuel, which is precisely what Trump claimed would happen.

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Can we please stop stop bashing other member's countries and presidents. Just because you have an opinion of a country does not mean that is actually what is going on. Even more so if you do not live in said country. Discussing the end of the Korean war is fine, but please stop the bashing of countries besides this one. Besides that, it is not North Korea's citizens itself that is the problem, but their tyrannical ruler. If this is how it is going to be, then I think political discussions should be banned from the forums. I am from the USA and I do not appreciate those bashing my country.

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