Consistent entertainment/immersion vs slower buildup into really awesome scenes

[NowItsAngeTime]

Something I tend to see a lot when people recommend visual novels is "well it's slow until you reach a certain then it's great". However, not as often I don't see much of "I just really liked everything from start to finish".

I'm just curious what type of VNs do you tend to like more/rate higher? Something that consistently have entertaining/decent/good/great scenes or something where you're fine with it being slow for quite a bit of time as long as it builds to some amazing moments (some of the best in any VN) or it just stops being slow after a while and is just really good from a certain point?

My personal favorites tend to be ones that are just more consistent entertaining/good to me, even if the highs may not be as good as other VNs I like

[VirginSmasher]

Consistent intrigue or plot is what usually gets the high ratings from me. If a VN is really slow and boring to start off with, I'll almost always drop it nowadays.

[Kabu]

I mean, personally it being slow doesn't necessarily mean that it's boring or that I'm not being entertained, it just means that it's moving at a slow, casual pace. Though I'm also the type that generally prefers peaceful slice of life over intense action and the sort so again, maybe that's just me.

[Ranzo]

It all depends on the characters. If they themselves are engaging and interesting then I can overlook a more languid pace.

 

[PiggiesGoMoo]

I don't bash slow, slice-of-life scenes at the beginning of VNs anymore, because it seems like it's an effective "plot device" in many great VNs.  Just from looking at VNDB, a substantial number of the top highly rated, most popular (in combination) VNs use these scenes at the beginning.  Here are some examples (I haven't read all of these so correct me if I'm wrong):

Umineko, Subahibi (I think?), Clannad, Higurashi, Ever17, Little Busters, Grisaia trilogy, Fate/Stay Night.

Ever17 specifically fascinates me in this regard, because I see it as incredibly dated and slow due to multiple overlapping routes.  Yet it still consistently gets good ratings globally and is greatly popular. You'll find yourself having to repeat the same sandwich-eating scenes 4-5 times from different route perspectives, and every time you see that scene, not being sure if you'll miss important plot by force-skipping it "this time". I found this greatly annoying to where it hampered my enjoyment of the novel.

Edited March 5, 2018 by PiggiesGoMoo

[VirginSmasher]

7 minutes ago, PiggiesGoMoo said:

I don't bash slow, slice-of-life scenes at the beginning of VNs anymore, because it seems like it's an effective "plot device" in many great VNs.  Just from looking at VNDB, a substantial number of the top highly rated, most popular (in combination) VNs use these scenes at the beginning.  Here are some examples (I haven't read all of these so correct me if I'm wrong):

Umineko, Subahibi (I think?), Clannad, Higurashi, Ever17, Little Busters, Grisaia trilogy, Fate/Stay Night.

Ever17 specifically fascinates me in this regard, because I see it as incredibly dated and slow due to multiple overlapping routes.  Yet it still consistently gets good ratings globally and is greatly popular. You'll find yourself having to repeat the same sandwich-eating scenes 4-5 times from different route perspectives, and every time you see that scene, not being sure if you'll miss important plot by force-skipping it "this time". I found this greatly annoying to where it hampered my enjoyment of the novel.

I would agree. SoL to me is only good if comedy is involved in a lot of it and if it's used to develop characters in between large scale action parts. Hence why I enjoyed Dies Irae's SoL scenes.

[Darklord Rooke]

42 minutes ago, NowItsAngeTime said:

I'm just curious what type of VNs do you tend to like more/rate higher? Something that consistently have entertaining/decent/good/great scenes or something where you're fine with it being slow for quite a bit of time as long as it builds to some amazing moments (some of the best in any VN) or it just stops being slow after a while and is just really good from a certain point?

It should be noted that to have a slow build up, the story needs to be consistently ... well, built up. Stories that dick around for 30 hours can be fun, but it's hard to describe that as "building the story".

Usually I do enjoy a slow build up, where the world is gradually peeled back or new facets and skills of the characters slowly revealed that sort of thing. But only if the scenes had purpose and weren't just "hijinks".

[Guest]

I like both really, it depends on my mood.

Some of F/SN SoL was really boring even with the great moments.

Like right now I don't fell like reading Lamento since it has some slow build up and I'm not in the mood for that.

[MaggieROBOT]

I read both just fine, but I can only read one slow VN per year or else I'll be burned out.

So I guess I can say I prefer consistent entertainment.

 

[Weiterfechten]

Hmm.. this is a tough answer. On the one hand are the VNs which I have rated the highest most often pretty slow runners, but I have also found myself, all to often, giving up on VNs halfway through due to some utterly boring monologue suddenly thrown at you as if to just drag the whole story on for ages. If I were to guess why in these cases I could not finish reading these over the top monologues in these games specifically I would have to say that it was either due to the story not really feeling like it was building up for anything worth continuing reading for (atleast in that moment), me just plain out not liking the characters of the VNs or the story just not tickling my fancy.

[Norleas]

Being consistently good is way harder than begin low and then peak higher, the inability to be at least digestible in all the sections is like a plague that infects most of story driven vns and make them crap.

[Clephas]

Mostly, I at least prefer that a game make a good first impression.  VNs that start out really slow occasionally become godly later on, but most of the best games are good from the beginning, in my experience. 

[Yuuko]

I'm dumb and my brain can't process information very fast so slow games are okay with me!

[Testarossa]

Being slow doesn't mean it's bad, so either way would be fine with me. It'd be a different thing if you asked about VNs that start boring, something you'd feel like dropping, and then became good after the buildup.

The way you put it can vary a lot depending on the VN or person. For example, a VN good from the beginning can fail to become awesome in its best moments (Like something starting as a 7/10 from the start to the end), meanwhile a slow buildup can reach unique levels of awesomeness (Like something starting as a 6/10 and ending as a 9/10). Depending on your tastes, having a slow buildup can also mean being good from the beginning, so that would be better for someone like this, otherwise being slow can be irritating and then a major part of the game this person wouldn't enjoy.

I tend to rate higher VNs that can be good doing what they want to do, there's no real preference. For me a good slow buildup ends up being a consistent entertainment anyway, I can appreciate both equally if I believe it's well done.

[Plk_Lesiak]

2 hours ago, Ranzo said:

It all depends on the characters. If they themselves are engaging and interesting then I can overlook a more languid pace.

 

This, more than anything else I think. If I actually care about the characters and they're consistently well-written, there can be no such thing as the story going "too slow", I'll just enjoy the casual moments for what they are and most likely never complain. Well done SoL should be more than just means to an end ("necessary character development" etc.) and as I'm a sucker for anime fluff, a VN that really does it right will receive similar praise from me as one that delivers intense drama - I would even argue that it's paradoxically easier to cover poor writing and characterization with fast pacing than it is in case in a really slow, relaxed story, if you don't want to bore your audience to death.

[Silvz]

It's hard for me to answer this because I love some slow paced VNs, but now I'm reading SeaBed (released by Mangagamer) and holy Jesus, it's boring. The worst thing is that every review I read states that it is slow but with a great plot, but although I have read so much already, it never seems to end. I think to be slow can be good sometimes, but whenever you have full dialogues about breakfast or fishing, it shows to me that the author is only trying to create a longer narrative without substance. KEY is, for me, a good example for good slow-paced games, since even when the common routes are long, they are filled with funny moments and jokes, so you never get tired.

Btw, about seabed, if someone has finished it...

Spoiler

I'm reading the part where Sachiko travels to an Inn, owned by a girl she met in a trip. It's in chapter 2, I think. How long does it take to finish? Am I still early in the game, or near the end?

 

[VirginSmasher]

2 hours ago, Kiriririri said:

I'm dumb and my brain can't process information very fast so slow games are okay with me!

So that's why you like moege so much. Suspicions confirmed. w

18 minutes ago, Silvz said:

It's hard for me to answer this because I love some slow paced VNs, but now I'm reading SeaBed (released by Mangagamer) and holy Jesus, it's boring. The worst thing is that every review I read states that it is slow but with a great plot, but although I have read so much already, it never seems to end. I think to be slow can be good sometimes, but whenever you have full dialogues about breakfast or fishing, it shows to me that the author is only trying to create a longer narrative without substance. KEY is, for me, a good example for good slow-paced games, since even when the common routes are long, they are filled with funny moments and jokes, so you never get tired.

Btw, about seabed, if someone has finished it...

  Hide contents

I'm reading the part where Sachiko travels to an Inn, owned by a girl she met in a trip. It's in chapter 2, I think. How long does it take to finish? Am I still early in the game, or near the end?

 

Honestly, I agree with you. The beginning of SeaBed has such a boring plot to me, but it seriously gets a lot better later on. I hated the first half and yet, the second half gripped me quite a bit.

As for how far you are into it, the chapters keep being long until Chapter 4. Chapter 5 is where things start to get interesting. It's up to you whether or not to drop it.

[Silvz]

21 minutes ago, VirginSmasher said:

So that's why you like moege so much. Suspicions confirmed. w

Honestly, I agree with you. The beginning of SeaBed has such a boring plot to me, but it seriously gets a lot better later on. I hated the first half and yet, the second half gripped me quite a bit.

As for how far you are into it, the chapters keep being long until Chapter 4. Chapter 5 is where things start to get interesting. It's up to you whether or not to drop it.

Thank you a lot! I'll keep reading it then, unless something else grabs my attention. I was very interested, until one of my theories was debunked :c

[VirginSmasher]

1 minute ago, Silvz said:

Thank you a lot! I'll keep reading it then, unless something else grabs my attention. I was very interested, until one of my theories was debunked :c

No problem. I hope you enjoy the second half of it. That's when the mystery starts getting really good.

[arosia]

I'm a storyteller first and foremost. I have a hard time with immersion when I watch/play anything. I'm always pulling at the threads in stories and paying attention to what the creators are trying to do.

With that said...

I prefer very intense stories, with very little downtime.

I do like slow moments, but mostly so that you have a moment of rest that you can shatter with new action.

In my limited experience with VNs, I find that a lot of them seem to have 30-40% of the story/action they need, and then they stretch it with filler content to reach their published state.

I think the best (and most epic) stories start out with too much to tell. They have like 150%-200% of the content they need, and then they start cutting out details.

Everything is meaningful and deliberate and artistic. There's so much depth. You can play through a story 3-4 times, and you keep discovering things about the characters and stories.

But that's just my opinion.

And even saying that, sometimes I do like slow and sweet titles, where I just want to sink into a bed of cuteness. I think if it's going to be slow, it has to be super flirtatious romance; but that's action too, when you think about it!

[solidbatman]

Since a VN is reading first and foremost, it has to be consistently good to hold my attention. Something like Little busters!, or hell, even F/SN has far too much downtime that causes me to just lose interest completely. I understand the need for world building and character building through slower pacing, but that style just completely fails to hold my attention. 

[Frullo NDE]

The VNs I like the most are the ones who manage to succesfully build an engaging atmosphere and introduce you to likeable characters before shit hits the fan and drama builds up. Steins;Gate is an obvious example of this.
I think it's harder to make you emphatize with characters if you start at full speed, like Root Double.
I do hate pointless and redundant slice of life scenes though.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Frullo NDE

[VirginSmasher]

8 minutes ago, Frullo NDE said:

The VNs I like the most are the ones who manage to succesfully build an engaging atmosphere and introduce you to likeable characters before shit hits the fan and drama builds up. Steins;Gate is an obvious example of this.
I think it's harder to make you emphatize with characters if you start at full speed, like Root Double.
I do hate pointless and redundant slice of life scenes though.

If you really think about it, most SoL scenes are really pointless.

It's just some you enjoy more than others.

[Frullo NDE]

12 hours ago, VirginSmasher said:

If you really think about it, most SoL scenes are really pointless.

It's just some you enjoy more than others.

Well, I guess you're right. Let's say i enjoy a bit of SoL in a VN, but not when the cafeteria and classroom banter scenes overtake the rest.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Frullo NDE

[Dreamysyu]

On 3/5/2018 at 10:58 PM, NowItsAngeTime said:

Something I tend to see a lot when people recommend visual novels is "well it's slow until you reach a certain then it's great". However, not as often I don't see much of "I just really liked everything from start to finish".

I never care that a story is slow if the slow part are done right. I personally love a lot of slow-paced stories, especially the ones that focus on character interactions and development. Some of my favorite stories in different media are extremely slow-paced, to the point that many people will probably find them pretty boring. At the same time, what I really care about is that the story actually has to be good. I don't really want to go through 30 hours of unfunny comedy to reach the good parts, even if the comedic parts actually turn out to be important in the end. Another plus is that, even in the slow parts, the story needs to at least go somewhere. Basing my opinion on the anime, Steins;Gate does it pretty well, and I don't really understand the common criticism about its first half. Actually, some episodes in the second half were actually worse.