mitchhamilton Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) just finished a vn 100% and thought about how i only knew that because I filled up the cg gallery. now im reading some majikoi fan disk and i remembered that majikoi didnt have this for some endings. of course there are some joke endings like miyakos but there are others as well. such as yamato being antiromantic and getting raped by that one brother guy. i wouldve never known this ending had existed if i was just going by cg's alone since there are none for this. thank fuck. butt of course its understandable with majikoi as i said there are endings that arent real ones. more like tacked on ones to just say "welp, you screwed up. better reload a save." having cgs for all of these, especially since some routes have multiple bad ends that could happen in the middle of the route, would be a bit much since, again, theyre just there. what do you think, you little cheeky monkey, you? Edited February 8, 2018 by mitchhamilton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamysyu Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Yeah, definitely. Maybe, not the bad endings, but at least the good ones. I think, the main reason why not all VNs have that is because it's supposed to be "fun" to look for secret endings, but, honestly, I see little fun in it if I don't even know where to look. Though an ending list would work just as fine. And I realize that I would definitely skip the last ending in SubaHibi if I wasn't following a walkthrough. onorub 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 All main ends (bad or not) should've IMO. Not side gameovers tou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Poltroon Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I don't care too much about CGs or their contribution towards VN completion. Walkthroughs are so prevalent for VNs, you see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieROBOT Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr Poltroon said: I don't care too much about CGs or their contribution towards VN completion. Walkthroughs are so prevalent for VNs, you see? Funny thing is that I think the exactly opposite. I love to unlock CGs and make 100% saves, it's an accomplishment for me. But I dislike using walkthroughs, they hold my hand too much and I like to try my own thing out. I know I'm just making my life harder, but that's the way I like to play. I just use walkthroughs after I'm done with all routes and I happen to miss a CG or two. As for Mitch's question, yeeeeeeeah, give me CGs! The more the merrier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamysyu Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Mr Poltroon said: I don't care too much about CGs or their contribution towards VN completion. Walkthroughs are so prevalent for VNs, you see? True, but technically this is not how things should be. While it's true that most people prefer to read VNs rather than play, if they present themselves as computer games, then they need to follow basic rules all computer games follow. For example, a player should be able to complete the game without relying on walkthoughs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dergonu Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said: True, but technically this is not how things should be. While it's true that most people prefer to read VNs rather than play, if they present themselves as computer games, then they need to follow basic rules all computer games follow. For example, a player should be able to complete the game without relying on walkthoughs. But VNs are a bit unique in that regard, as most players simply want to know the choice combination to get on the route of the girl they want, and don't want to spend time going in circles before they get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Poltroon Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said: True, but technically this is not how things should be. While it's true that most people prefer to read VNs rather than play, if they present themselves as computer games, then they need to follow basic rules all computer games follow. For example, a player should be able to complete the game without relying on walkthoughs. I don't think so. The player should be able to experience what the game has to offer, they should be rewarded for experimentation, but completing the game is another thing entirely. Clannad rewards the player for trying things over and over again, and its bad ends hint at what you missed. I think, in this sense, it's a masterful game that allows you to experience something new every time you try something out, but to attempt to complete Clannad without a walkthrough is madness. It's best the player simply don't know they're missing something. They'll be equally satisfied that way. It's only because walkthroughs exist that 'completing a game' is even a thing. If the game contains no indicators telling you 'there's still more content!', then you'll have completed the game when you feel you've completed the game. Including such indicators, even in the form of CGs, is selfishness from the part of a developer who thinks 'we made this so it'd be a shame if the players never saw it'. But I understand why there would be indicators of 'there's still content you haven't seen yet'. Hunting for it can be fun, depending on the person, and there are games which rely on this. Steins;Gate's true ending is my foremost example. I just don't care for CGs either way, so if they had other kinds of indicators it would be equally fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamysyu Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dergonu said: But VNs are a bit unique in that regard, as most players simply want to know the choice combination to get on the route of the girl they want, and don't want to spend time going in circles before they get it. Definitely. On the other hand, I don't think that the players should feel that they need to use a walkthrough simply to enjoy a VN. When it comes to situations where it's possible to miss content if you simply made a wrong choice at some point, without any clear indication that you lost that content, or if some endings are simply impossible to reach on our own, we pretty much have to use a walkthrough. This is what I believe is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dergonu Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Dreamysyu said: Definitely. On the other hand, I don't think that the players should feel that they need to use a walkthrough simply to enjoy a VN. When it comes to situations where it's possible to miss content if you simply made a wrong choice at some point, without any clear indication that you lost that content, or if some endings are simply impossible to reach on our own, we pretty much have to use a walkthrough. This is what I believe is wrong. Yeah, that I agree to. Some VNs simply have way too intricate choice systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamysyu Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr Poltroon said: I don't think so. The player should be able to experience what the game has to offer, they should be rewarded for experimentation, but completing the game is another thing entirely. Clannad rewards the player for trying things over and over again, and its bad ends hint at what you missed. I think, in this sense, it's a masterful game that allows you to experience something new every time you try something out, but to attempt to complete Clannad without a walkthrough is madness. It's best the player simply don't know they're missing something. They'll be equally satisfied that way. I am not sure if we mean the same thing by the word "complete" here. To me, I completed the game if I reached all story-relevant ending, and, in case of story-based VNs, got all the information important to understand the plot. I agree, in case of Clannad reaching all the content in the game may be demanding, but, in some cases, it may not be even relevant. On the other hand, I believe, you should be able to reach the ending to the After Story without using a walkthrough, because that's what basically means winning the game. I am not sure how possible this is since I only finished one route, but if you need a walkthrough for that, I can't agree with that. On the other hand, in some cases it's not even possible to understand from the ending to the game that there still are story-relevant endings. I am going to use SubaHibi as an example, because this is where I noticed it. Basically, there is one ending that unlocks after you cleared all the other endings (I think?), but there is nothing in the game that actually shows you that the new ending appeared. You are, most likely, at 100% CG completion at this point, there is no ending list. Basically, at some point in the game a new choice appeared, and you can only notice that if you replay the game. They might've wanted to add it as a secret ending, but what's the point for that if it actually has important information for understanding the story? My personal opinion: there should be something in the game that indicate that this ending exists. CGs, actually, are a nice way to show that there's still something relevant in the story left, but I would certainly prefer a simple ending list. PS. Basically, I think VN, as games, should have clear conditions for winning. Edited February 8, 2018 by Dreamysyu mitchhamilton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranzo Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 That would be cool to have some cgs for some of the deliciously fucked Fate Stay Night bad endings of course there's like forty of them so that would never happen Dreamysyu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Most good endings do have CGs specifically made for that ending. That said, there are some developers that simply have a long scene with no CG or change it depending on the heroine priority level. Majikoi is something an exception to the rule, probably because that series' games have so many endings in the first place. I say that Majikoi is an exception, because Majikoi games are the higher end of the budget scale, most of the time... and most of the games where there is no CG are medium to low budget games. mitchhamilton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcomiX Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Some route's endngs are so perfect that any other "perfect" ending would just ruin them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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