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Stormwolf

What do you think about vn's that

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Force you into a sol/friendship true ending after playing through heroine routes? I think it's the single most stupid thing you can do when writing vn's. A romance based visual novel should have a true heroine if there is a true ending (if you ask me). Of course i also think the true heroine should be better than the rest, hoshimemo... you failed in this regard..

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38 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

(...)Of course i also think the true heroine should be better than the rest, hoshimemo... you failed in this regard..

The concept of "better" is subjective so I don't think there is a way to create one that will appeal to everyone (specially with the heroines that have distinct personalities), also I disagree that there should be a hero(ine) that is supposed to be "better", I think all of the hero(ines) should be unique on their own way, there shouldn't be a "better" just a "main" heroine that just so happens to be the supposedly "true route", that is just as unique as the other hero(ines).

 

38 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

A romance based visual novel should have a true heroine if there is a true ending (if you ask me)(...)

I don't agree, just look at games like Hatsukoi 1/1 and WagaHigh, they don't have True Heroines because they don't need to, it is a romance visual novel and not every VN should have a True Hero(ine)\Route becausec not every VN need one.

38 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Force you into a sol/friendship true ending after playing through heroine routes? I think it's the single most stupid thing you can do when writing vn's(...)

If it is a satisfying end I would enjoy it, but, I guess I agree with you on that aspect (specially if it is a Pure Romance Story like some Moege\Charages, which a more romantic end would be more appropriate).

Edited by SeniorBlitz

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Preferably those vns dont have true endings. And ill agree with you about the heroines should just be unique in their way. Hoshimemo for example teased the true heroine over almost all the routes, and when i finally did the true route, i almost refused to believe how bad it was, what a terrible heroine she was.

 

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3 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

(...)Hoshimemo for example teased the true heroine over almost all the routes, and when i finally did the true route, i almost refused to believe how bad it was, what a terrible heroine she was.

Yeah, it is pretty mood-breaking when the supposed "True Route" is not as great as it was foreshadowed in other routes. Reminds me of Togainu no Chi, where the route for the supposed "True" hero was just as standard as any other route which was a bit anti-climatic (but it wasn't bad or terrible, so I guess it isn't the same).

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37 minutes ago, SeniorBlitz said:

Yeah, it is pretty mood-breaking when the supposed "True Route" is not as great as it was foreshadowed in other routes. Reminds me of Togainu no Chi, where the route for the supposed "True" hero was just as standard as any other route which was a bit anti-climatic (but it wasn't bad or terrible, so I guess it isn't the same).

Too bad its gay since it looks pretty cool. 

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12 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

I most certainly cant stand it.

Ill be old and decrepit before i get to read eternal heart :/

Know how you fell, it's been 4 years now since I first read Hoshimemo :vinty:

Honestly, I think the true ending theme fits when the story goes around some kind of mistery/drama to which the MC is bound from the beginning, wether or not it is directly related to a heroine (Da Capo II and III, although in the latter it ends up being kinda related).

1 hour ago, SeniorBlitz said:

I don't agree, just look at games like Hatsukoi 1/1 and WagaHigh, they don't have True Heroines because they don't need to, it is a romance visual novel and not every VN should have a True Hero(ine)\Route becausec not every VN need one.

Totally agree here. If a VN is plain romance such as Princess Evangile (or those mentioned above) there is just no need of a true ending, since the whole point in that kind of VN is to choose a heroine. Yet, that changes when in addition to the romance, there's a more complex plot behind it surrouding backgrouds/mistery or whatever, in which case the main story will regard that plot leaving the romance as secondary.

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I'm  generally against the idea of a "true ending" unless there's some kind of overarching mystery/intrigue that really needs it to be properly resolved (and the romance is secondary to that), or there's a sequel that needs it as a starting point. When there is a "true route" I usually don't get hyped for it and treat it like any other playthrough, it's my choice what I want to take from a game and which conclussion will be closest to my perception of the story. Especially in a standalone title, where I don't have to really care what's "canon".

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That was the biggest problem I had with Clannad. I just was never interested in Nagisa and so consequently I didn't care for either of her routes or even After Story to be completely honest(There were some good bits of After Story that I liked but it mostly revolved around Tomoya and his growing to adulthood)

I still really like it based on the strength of Kyou's route and Tomoyo's but I feel that it would have been so much better if any other girl was the lead.

Edited by Ranzo

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4 hours ago, Stormwolf said:

Force you into a sol/friendship true ending after playing through heroine routes? I think it's the single most stupid thing you can do when writing vn's. A romance based visual novel should have a true heroine if there is a true ending (if you ask me). Of course i also think the true heroine should be better than the rest, hoshimemo... you failed in this regard..

You can have it both ways.

Key VN's tend to do this. You have your main heroine like nagisa from clannad, and i thought her route had the most effort put into it. However the opposite is true as well. For example, VN's like Majikoi, don't really have a true heroine, and I liked several routes and several of the heroines.  People have different tastes, and one of the most contested things for moeges, are their favorite waifu/best girl.  I loved every girl/route in Ayakashibito despite suzu's being the true end.

Even if there is a true ending, people can enjoy the other ones and girls according to their taste. And the ending in Comyu was very slice of lifey but I didn't mind it too much.

For me, the thing that pisses me of, is when they have a true route/heroine, they put so little effort in the other heroines screwing them over completely.

Case in point -> G-senjou, Comyu, most non major routes in Key VN's 

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15 minutes ago, Akshay said:

For me, the thing that pisses me of, is when they have a true route/heroine, they put so little effort in the other heroines screwing them over completely.

Case in point -> G-senjou, Comyu, most non major routes in Key VN's 

Yeah, this type of thing is very shitty.

 

39 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

I'm  generally against the idea of a "true ending" unless there's some kind of overarching mystery/intrigue that really needs it to be properly resolved (and the romance is secondary to that), or there's a sequel that needs it as a starting point. When there is a "true route" I usually don't get hyped for it and treat it like any other playthrough, it's my choice what I want to take from a game and which conclussion will be closest to my perception of the story. Especially in a standalone title, where I don't have to really care what's "canon".

I don't really like the concept of "canon", I think it just created a lot of unnecessary discussion on what is true or not (like per example in the silent hill fandom with the whole which end is canon on the  second installment) which could have been resolved by just "not caring" (not in the literal sense) on what is true or whatnot and just enjoying the story, like, I can understand the existence of a "True End" like you said, for a possible sequel, etc. but for me the "True" is just symbolic for "Final", read\play it last, if I can reach an ending in a certain media, it is "canon" for me since the author of the story gave the possibility to reach it in the first place, but, I guess that is just me (also I'm not saying anyone is stupid by liking the concept of what's canonical, I'm just stating my point of view).

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7 hours ago, Stormwolf said:

Force you into a sol/friendship true ending after playing through heroine routes? I think it's the single most stupid thing you can do when writing vn's. A romance based visual novel should have a true heroine if there is a true ending (if you ask me). Of course i also think the true heroine should be better than the rest, hoshimemo... you failed in this regard..

Like Little Busters? So much romance just to be taken away?

Hoshimemo, I liked the main heroine. It's debatable if she's better than Komomo or Kosame, though. And I can tolerate Isuzu and Asuho in some cases. Chinami... I don't buy into imouto stuff.

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3 hours ago, SeniorBlitz said:

Yeah, this type of thing is very shitty.

 

I don't really like the concept of "canon", I think it just created a lot of unnecessary discussion on what is true or not (like per example in the silent hill fandom with the whole which end is canon on the  second installment) which could have been resolved by just "not caring" (not in the literal sense) on what is true or whatnot and just enjoying the story, like, I can understand the existence of a "True End" like you said, for a possible sequel, etc. but for me the "True" is just symbolic for "Final", read\play it last, if I can reach an ending in a certain media, it is "canon" for me since the author of the story gave the possibility to reach it in the first place, but, I guess that is just me (also I'm not saying anyone is stupid by liking the concept of what's canonical, I'm just stating my point of view).

I agree when they cut out other heroines completely. But apart from other japanese media, it's basically the only media where the protagonist and the heroine gets a lot of time together, so it's a conflicted feeling.

 

23 minutes ago, Silvz said:

Rewrite

If i don't recall wrongly rewrite is an oddity. Sure, it has a true route, but every route happened.

 

33 minutes ago, Okarin said:

Like Little Busters? So much romance just to be taken away?

Hoshimemo, I liked the main heroine. It's debatable if she's better than Komomo or Kosame, though. And I can tolerate Isuzu and Asuho in some cases. Chinami... I don't buy into imouto stuff.

Little busters is an apt example. True heroine in hoshimemo was a bitch for a lot of her route if i'm not mistaken. 

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32 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

If i don't recall wrongly rewrite is an oddity. Sure, it has a true route, but every route happened.
 

Still, you are forced to "forget" the heroines in order to get to the true ending

 

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1 hour ago, Stormwolf said:

 

(...)Sure, it has a true route, but every route happened.

Well the same with Zero Escape and Infinity Series since both work in a multiverse, Clannad also implies this with the whole "Light Orb" thing, the VN I'm reading now called YU-NO have you literally jumping between timelines to finish puzzles, Grisaia no Rakuen considers every route canon, Corpse Party have a supposed true end but book of shadows makes every other ending canon, Higurashi works on a time loop system, so every chapter is canon.

NOTE: I use the term "Canon" very loosely.

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What about Steins;Gate. Those uncountable number of times that Okabe time leaps, virtually leaving his former self in a deadly situation.

And he has to hurt and erase good feelings and memories from several girls.

Though Kurisu is the one he truly loves.

Except in this case, it really adds to the drama.

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