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Infernoplex

A Sky Full of Stars - +18 Restoration

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16 hours ago, Infernoplex said:

Yes. It's still ongoing. A kind soul offered to help me with TL, but it's still gonna take a while. I'm editing right now, but it's going slow. Everything I said earlier still stands :)

Would you mind to tell us the estimated time for the project? Maybe a couple of months or something?

I already download this game but i dont play it because i want to wait until this project done :3

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5 hours ago, Shadow11 said:

Would you mind to tell us the estimated time for the project? Maybe a couple of months or something?

I already download this game but i dont play it because i want to wait until this project done :3

Likely not this year (it's impossible to finish it by the end of this year)... ETA is sometime in 2019 (my early ETA, mind you). I will say what I already said before. The VN is readable at the moment, even without the H-scenes. Many people have already read it. I would recommend reading it like it is at the moment, without waiting for the patch because it's going to take a while for it to come out. I originally started this project with intention of fixing the Moenovel's poor work and censorship. And that's why I plan to finish it till the end, no matter how much time it takes me.

There's a way to read the H-scenes with machine translation by using Marcus's tool. I didn't try it myself, but based on what people said, it kinda works.

There's another possibility and that's that Moenovel might decide to finally release the full uncensored version by themselves. I don't know how likely that is to happen, but I am gonna continue the project until I see them doing it themselves (which I don't think will ever happen, but some people told me it might).

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14 hours ago, Infernoplex said:

Likely not this year (it's impossible to finish it by the end of this year)... ETA is sometime in 2019 (my early ETA, mind you). I will say what I already said before. The VN is readable at the moment, even without the H-scenes. Many people have already read it. I would recommend reading it like it is at the moment, without waiting for the patch because it's going to take a while for it to come out. I originally started this project with intention of fixing the Moenovel's poor work and censorship. And that's why I plan to finish it till the end, no matter how much time it takes me.

There's a way to read the H-scenes with machine translation by using Marcus's tool. I didn't try it myself, but based on what people said, it kinda works.

There's another possibility and that's that Moenovel might decide to finally release the full uncensored version by themselves. I don't know how likely that is to happen, but I am gonna continue the project until I see them doing it themselves (which I don't think will ever happen, but some people told me it might).

Okay then, thanks for your answer 

Good luck for this project ! ;)

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Just now, littleshogun said:

I think I won't count the chance that the third would be happening, not as long as Pulltop still not releasing their 18+ VNs translated or perhaps break the contract with AGM and starting to adapt either Mangagamer or Sekai in regard of publishing 18+ VNs.

My point exactly shogun. They still haven't done a proper release of Konosora and I don't see them doing a proper release of Miazora either. Also, I heard Fine Days is slightly more sex heavier than Miazora so I think they won't do the fandiscs either, just like they didn't do them for Konosora (Flight Diary and Snow Presents). Also, the reason they skipped doing Cocoro Function is probably the same (I heard it's slightly more sex heavier than Miazora and Konosora xD).

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I think I'd be willing to wait 2 years for this TL. Honestly, the thought of playing it without getting the full experience REALLY bothers me. I am definitely disappointed you aren't getting more translators to help, but it's a lot to translate thousands of lines without getting paid.

Looking forward to the final release! Hope more help comes along!

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1 hour ago, voidpointer said:

I think I'd be willing to wait 2 years for this TL. Honestly, the thought of playing it without getting the full experience REALLY bothers me. I am definitely disappointed you aren't getting more translators to help, but it's a lot to translate thousands of lines without getting paid.

Looking forward to the final release! Hope more help comes along!

The problem isn't the TLer at the moment. I am a slow editor, kek xD

Maybe I should open up a position for it, seeing how it takes me a week or two to do barely some 150~200 lines.

Also, the fact I picked up Moenovel's TL in hopes of salvaging it also adds on the time investment necessary to finish this. I am hoping I won't end up like Konosora project that took a couple of years to finish (I think... 4?). But truth be told, I think I am going exactly in that direction. That's why I am telling people not to wait for this patch because by the time it comes out, it will already be a cold dish.

In any case, it'll get done... slowly xD

But thank you for your and everyone else's support ^_^

Edited by Infernoplex

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42 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

The problem isn't the TLer at the moment. I am a slow editor, kek xD

Maybe I should open up a position for it, seeing how it takes me a week or two to do barely some 150~200 lines.

Also, the fact I picked up Moenovel's TL in hopes of salvaging it also adds on the time investment necessary to finish this. I am hoping I won't end up like Konosora project that took a couple of years to finish (I think... 4?). But truth be told, I think I am going exactly in that direction. That's why I am telling people not to wait for this patch because by the time it comes out, it will already be a cold dish.

In any case, it'll get done... slowly xD

But thank you for your and everyone else's support ^_^

It took them 5 years to finish.  Though they're not really done yet due to typos and other mistakes.

Edited by Shaun

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7 minutes ago, Shaun said:

It took them 5 years to finish.  Though they're not really done yet due to typos and other mistakes.

Oh, I see... 5 years... God, that's an awfully long time spent on a project. They really stayed dedicated to the goal.

Man, how I hate Moenovel. It pisses me off so much that you need fans to go after them and fix their shit.

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9 hours ago, Infernoplex said:

Oh, I see... 5 years... God, that's an awfully long time spent on a project. They really stayed dedicated to the goal.

Man, how I hate Moenovel. It pisses me off so much that you need fans to go after them and fix their shit.

I so agree with you on that, I'm not a moenovel fan that for sure.

I don't understand why they must ruin VN with to erase sexual content from VN and give the VN a bad translating.

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I'm probalby repeating myself like a broken record, nevertheless:

Actually Miagete wasn't "ruined", but then what do I know...

Konosora was, I agree, and it is unreadable without retranslation patch, but for Miagete IMHO h-scenes aren't worth waiting few years for them to be translated :P  All-ages version is complete, just different from +18, but it doesn't have that feeling of being cut, like Konosora had. After checking h-scenes in JP version, I actually, much to my surprise, preferred all-ages Miagete. It has proper replacement scenes and reworked dialogues (complete with new voiced lines) - it wasn't just "butchering by stupid localization team". It actually looks like Pulltop preapred genuine Japanese all-ages version, but didn't release it in Japan - but that's the version that got translated.

This time it's really JUST h-scenes themselves that got cut - so actually english version has +17 rating, not "12 year old French girls".

And, RNG Gods were pretty generous this time, as the translation itself is also much better than Konosora - apart from some unfortunate/awkward phrases, it is decent and completely readable.

 

Edited by adamstan

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39 minutes ago, adamstan said:

I'm probalby repeating myself like a broken record, nevertheless:

Actually Miagete wasn't "ruined", but then what do I know...

Konosora was, I agree, and it is unreadable without retranslation patch, but for Miagete IMHO h-scenes aren't worth waiting few years for them to be translated :P  All-ages version is complete, just different from +18, but it doesn't have that feeling of being cut, like Konosora had. After checking h-scenes in JP version, I actually, much to my surprise, preferred all-ages Miagete. It has proper replacement scenes and reworked dialogues (complete with new voiced lines) - it wasn't just "butchering by stupid localization team". It actually looks like Pulltop preapred genuine Japanese all-ages version, but didn't release it in Japan - but that's the version that got translated.

This time it's really JUST h-scenes themselves that got cut - so actually english version has +17 rating, not "12 year old French girls".

And, RNG Gods were pretty generous this time, as the translation itself is also much better than Konosora - apart from some unfortunate/awkward phrases, it is decent and completely readable.

 

While some people might be okay with such a version, like yourself, keep in mind that 7500 lines worth of H-scenes were cut from the game. 7500 lines. That's crazy. (Longer than some VNs. Heck, longer than my last TL project.) 

Chances are the All-ages version was already prepared in Japan, like you theorized, (maybe for a possible Vita version?) and it was not actually done specifically for the western release. Recording extra voice lines would probably cost more than the TL of the H-scenes, so I seriously doubt they went to such lengths to avoid relesing an 18+ version. 

All in all, the way they handled this game was a step in the right direction, (and cross channel was three steps back,) but you still lose out on quite a good chunk of content by reading this all-ages version, even with the new replacement scenes. (Again, 7500 lines. That's a lot.) 

So, I'd recommend people wait for the H TL, unless they just don't care about H in their VNs. 

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6 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

(Again, 7500 lines. That's a lot.)

Yeah, that's a lot, but numbers aren't everything. Not always longer=better :P I'm not against H, but it also isn't must-have for me, so I might be biased. However my point is, that actually the story flows better in all-ages version for me - in Saya's route some H-scenes felt out of place and forced to me. So I'd say that at least half of these 7500 lines for me is excessive fat that can be trimmed with no harm. Actually from what I've seen probably my "ideal" version of Miagete would have half of its h-scenes ;) (I'd certainly cut or move first Hikari's and Saya's scenes - let them progress slowly in their relationship. I really liked how in all-ages Saya's route they went like "there's no point in having all our firsts at once".)

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1 hour ago, adamstan said:

I'm probalby repeating myself like a broken record, nevertheless:

Actually Miagete wasn't "ruined", but then what do I know...

Konosora was, I agree, and it is unreadable without retranslation patch, but for Miagete IMHO h-scenes aren't worth waiting few years for them to be translated :P  All-ages version is complete, just different from +18, but it doesn't have that feeling of being cut, like Konosora had. After checking h-scenes in JP version, I actually, much to my surprise, preferred all-ages Miagete. It has proper replacement scenes and reworked dialogues (complete with new voiced lines) - it wasn't just "butchering by stupid localization team". It actually looks like Pulltop preapred genuine Japanese all-ages version, but didn't release it in Japan - but that's the version that got translated.

This time it's really JUST h-scenes themselves that got cut - so actually english version has +17 rating, not "12 year old French girls".

And, RNG Gods were pretty generous this time, as the translation itself is also much better than Konosora - apart from some unfortunate/awkward phrases, it is decent and completely readable.

 

 

41 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Yeah, that's a lot, but numbers aren't everything. Not always longer=better :P I'm not against H, but it also isn't must-have for me, so I might be biased. However my point is, that actually the story flows better in all-ages version for me - in Saya's route some H-scenes felt out of place and forced to me. So I'd say that at least half of these 7500 lines for me is excessive fat that can be trimmed with no harm. Actually from what I've seen probably my "ideal" version of Miagete would have half of its h-scenes ;) (I'd certainly cut or move first Hikari's and Saya's scenes - let them progress slowly in their relationship. I really liked how in all-ages Saya's route they went like "there's no point in having all our firsts at once".)

It's not "ruined" as per se xD Sorry if my previous comments made it sound like that.

I just find it to be not how I wanted this VN to read, and I also prefer H-scenes in my VNs, no matter how much insignificant they may seem or how much they may "weaken" the overall plot (personally, I rarely find myself in this situation where I would wish for H-scenes to not be in the VN... heck, porn was one of the few major reasons why I switched from anime to eroge). But as I already said, I agree with you, the patch isn't worth waiting for. I'm very motivated to finish this because of myself, not because I want someone to wait for this patch.

Yes, I realize they replaced some content with new one, but if I had to choose between an adult version and an all-ages different content one, I'd rather go for adult version, especially for moege/romance genre. The only VN which I have read without H-scenes at first was Dies irae (a chuunige), but for that one you had to read both released editions, one non-adult, and one adult to get the full picture. For Miagete, you only have the all-ages one, which for a moege/romance genre bothers me.

Regarding translation quality... I agree only on the part that it's "completely readable". And that doesn't say much about the quality because nowadays we take many kinds of shitty translations as "readable". I wouldn't label it a "decent translation" because it's not. And no, it's not just "some unfortunate/awkward phrases". Moenovel's TL is full of those lines that read just poorly. Mind you, I never read Konosora before, neither the new reTL patch nor the Moenovel edition. So I don't know how better they got in Miagete, but based on what I have seen so far... no, this isn't a translation I would label anything above so-so. From what I have seen, it looks semi-poorly edited (and also mistranslated at times as well... Mind you, I have only checked first 20 scripts out of some ... I think it's around 300) and there are many issues with it, some of which Decay pointed out on Reddit (the entire prologue, the first 8 scripts until the meeting with Hikari at the train station reads like it's poorly edited).

I'm comparing this with translations done by other localization companies, and no, I'm not impressed by Moenovel's work done here. Yes, the VN is good and I love it, but that's because the VN is good, not because Moenovel made a masterpiece or something. I believe even Sekai would have done a better job on it (and that's saying a lot considering how lately some of the Sekai's TLs have been a mess).

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As for TL quailty - it's possible that, not being native English speaker, I'm more forgiving than I should. As long as it doesn't sound completely broken, I'm okay. And original Konosora TL WAS broken in maaaany places (Ageha's route) - meaning that there were some words, but I couldn't get what's going on at all :P So maybe I rated it too lightly indeed. I'd say, comparing to other works, Miagete TL is around the level of early JAST/G-collections releases. Manages to convey the meaning most of the time, but has issues, which are probably even more jarring for native EN speakers.

For Sekai translations - I've read SakuSaku, Chrono Clock and Wagamama, and indeed they are much better.

Good luck with your project, even though I liked all ages version, I'll definitely check it out once it's done.

3 hours ago, Infernoplex said:

I rarely find myself in this situation where I would wish for H-scenes to not be in the VN...

Me too, but that's one of those rare situations for me - maybe not remove them all, but halve the amount ;)

Another case is LittleBusters. I think almost everyone agrees that h-scenes in it were horrible and all-ages version is superior. (But yeah, that's slightly different as game was originally all-ages, with H added later).

Edited by adamstan

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4 hours ago, Dergonu said:

While some people might be okay with such a version, like yourself, keep in mind that 7500 lines worth of H-scenes were cut from the game. 7500 lines. That's crazy. (Longer than some VNs. Heck, longer than my last TL project.) 

Chances are the All-ages version was already prepared in Japan, like you theorized, (maybe for a possible Vita version?) and it was not actually done specifically for the western release. Recording extra voice lines would probably cost more than the TL of the H-scenes, so I seriously doubt they went to such lengths to avoid relesing an 18+ version. 

All in all, the way they handled this game was a step in the right direction, (and cross channel was three steps back,) but you still lose out on quite a good chunk of content by reading this all-ages version, even with the new replacement scenes. (Again, 7500 lines. That's a lot.) 

So, I'd recommend people wait for the H TL, unless they just don't care about H in their VNs. 

Stupid question, but how often is it that you'll have a VN be voiced, except for its H-scenes? 

Edited by snowbell55

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5 minutes ago, snowbell55 said:

Stupid question, but how often is it that you'll have a VN be voiced, except for its H-scenes? 

There are no VNs that do this that I am aware of. I have seen cases that are the opposite, (ONLY voice for the H, nothing else.). But voice for anything but the H is very rare. Generally because voice actresses who do not want to work on R-18 related titles generally won't be involved with R-18 titles at all, so even if the voice acting was cut for the H, they would still be on an 18+ game, so... there is very little reason for a game dev to do this. (If it's an H game and they want to cut costs, then they would likely only do voices for the H and nothing else.) Generally, voice acting in H is very important to consumers. 

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52 minutes ago, adamstan said:

As for TL quailty - it's possible that, not being native English speaker, I'm more forgiving than I should. As long as it doesn't sound completely broken, I'm okay. And original Konosora TL WAS broken in maaaany places (Ageha's route) - meaning that there were some words, but I couldn't get what's going on at all :P So maybe I rated it too lightly indeed. I'd say, comparing to other works, Miagete TL is around the level of early JAST/G-collections releases. Manages to convey the meaning most of the time, but has issues, which are probably even more jarring for native EN speakers.

For Sekai translations - I've read SakuSaku, Chrono Clock and Wagamama, and indeed they are much better.

Good luck with your project, even though I liked all ages version, I'll definitely check it out once it's done.

I am not a native ENG speaker either ^_^ Sorry if I sound too harsh on my critique of Moenovel's TL, but that's because I want it to have the best translation possible. Originally, I was forgiving of it as well because I didn't expect much when I began reading it. When I finished the common route, I realized how sad I am about the quality of prose Moenovel gave it. And yeah, I heard about Konosora's issues. That's why I didn't read it at all yet. When I finish this project, I plan on reading Konosora's fan-made retranslation to compare my experiences of both VNs.

As for early JAST/G-Collection... I'll take it that you mean titles like Mugen Yasoukyoku. Yeah, that's indeed below the standard we expect from JAST these days. I read some G-Collection VNs, but I don't remember having many issues with them... well, aside from the engines being old and having some issues of their own, the translations seemed fine to me. I see in your sig "Kazoku Keikaku Re-edit Project:", so I am guessing that it had issues? I didn't read it, but I think it's written by Tanaka Romeo... no wonder, he is a hard writer to TL. Maybe G-Collection did a poor work on him, I dunno.

Regarding Sekai, I didn't read any of those titles you mentioned, but I heard only Wagamama's TL was good in that bunch. People tell me that SakuSaku and ChronoClock's TL were a mess. I cannot confirm, but I hope it's not as bad as they make it sound to be xD ...

And thanks... Maybe Miagete will be even worth a reread at the end, who knows ^_^

1 hour ago, adamstan said:

Another case is LittleBusters. I think almost everyone agrees that h-scenes in it were horrible and all-ages version is superior. (But yeah, that's slightly different as game was originally all-ages, with H added later).

Little Busters is a Key VN, and Key is a completely different beast. I didn't read any of their VNs, but based on what I heard, yeah, their VNs can live without H. I say, I didn't read anything by them, but I believe in the popular opinion regarding their H-scenes being redundant. And unlikeable xD

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49 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

As for early JAST/G-Collection... I'll take it that you mean titles like Mugen Yasoukyoku. Yeah, that's indeed below the standard we expect from JAST these days. I read some G-Collection VNs, but I don't remember having many issues with them... well, aside from the engines being old and having some issues of their own, the translations seemed fine to me. I see in your sig "Kazoku Keikaku Re-edit Project:", so I am guessing that it had issues? I didn't read it, but I think it's written by Tanaka Romeo... no wonder, he is a hard writer to TL. Maybe G-Collection did a poor work on him, I dunno.

Kazoku Keikaku has some serious editing issues in character routes (common is mostly OK). Crescendo is better, but it also looked awkward to me in many lines, and there were some moments of "TooLong;Didn'tTL" ;) - some lines were muuuch shorter than what could be heard in voice-over. OTOH Yukizakura and Heart de Roommate were good.

As for those ancient '90s titles - I didn't read Nocturnal Illusion, but did Sakura no Kisetsu and True Love ~jun'ai monogatari~. I'd say that Miagete is somewhere in between all these titles. Certainly above "True Love", which was rather messy. Maybe around "Sakura no Kisetsu" - readable, but with some obvious errors visible.

But, like I said, it seems that I'm unable to properly judge "prose quality" in english, unless it's broken or style doesn't match (my impression of) the characters (say, as with Chrono Clock's protag ;) ).

49 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

I plan on reading Konosora's fan-made retranslation to compare my experiences of both VNs.

It's definitely worth reading. And definitely better than MoeNovel's Miagete TL.

49 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

People tell me that SakuSaku and ChronoClock's TL were a mess. I cannot confirm, but I hope it's not as bad as they make it sound to be xD ...

ChronoClock has controversial style for protagonist and narration (lots of swearing mixed with some british(?) slang), but other than that it was okay for me. And I haven't found any obvious issues with SakuSaku.

Edited by adamstan

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7 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Kazoku Keikaku has some serious editing issues in character routes (common is mostly OK). Crescendo is better, but it also looked awkward to me in many lines, and there were some moments of "TooLong;Didn'tTL" ;) - some lines were muuuch shorter than what could be heard in voice-over. OTOH Yukizakura and Heart de Roommate were good.

I see. I'm glad I didn't read Kazoku Keikaku yet then :) I might wait for your re-edit :D

I did read Crescendo though. I think it was good TL, with some issues here and there, but nothing major, game breaking that would have thrown me off the hook. My major gripe with Crescendo is of another nature, not TL-related (that VN would have been one of my favorites if only it didn't fail so big on most of the heroines' routes... I think Crescendo is one of those VNs that had so much potential yet were ruined by poor execution and delivery).

14 minutes ago, adamstan said:

ChronoClock has controversial style for protagonist and narration (lots of swearing mixed with some british(?) slang), but other than that it was okay for me. And I haven't found any obvious issues with SakuSaku.

I see. Then I guess I won't be bothered too much by it. I don't mind such things as long as the prose reads properly, without many awkward lines or total gibberish.

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40 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

I did read Crescendo though. I think it was good TL, with some issues here and there, but nothing major, game breaking that would have thrown me off the hook.

Yeah, it certainly wasn't game breaking - it's just that some sentences looked weird, or rather it felt somewhat rough. But what you said about Crescendo, was almost exactly my experience with ASFOS - I was aware of its issues, but it didn't break the game for me. OTOH in Kazoku Keikaku emotional impact of the routes was damaged for me as I had to struggle with extracting the meaning from unedited lines. Looks like different things bother us, and we have different "pain thresholds" for various text issues.

40 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

I see. I'm glad I didn't read Kazoku Keikaku yet then :) I might wait for your re-edit :D


It'll probably take some time too, as I'm squeezing it between various other activities.

Edited by adamstan

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4 hours ago, Infernoplex said:

Regarding Sekai, I didn't read any of those titles you mentioned, but I heard only Wagamama's TL was good in that bunch. People tell me that SakuSaku and ChronoClock's TL were a mess. I cannot confirm, but I hope it's not as bad as they make it sound to be xD ...

I've read all 3 of those titles and can confirm that none of their TL is a mess, I found no problems with either of them.

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