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Usuario-1998

Fan Translation of VN are Legal?-and Licence Spanish Question-

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I search Violated Hero in DLsite...and they dont licenced it in English...

But,Monster Girl quest,is licenced and Translated,but i prefer something with good artwork.

And,yes i know that Dargoth make fan-translations of some Violated Hero Games...

I want this,because the Art is better,and the Music,have voice acting,and even H-Scenes are better...

I have two questions:

-If use fan-translation buying the Japanese Game is legal,and:

-Why the Companies dont licenced fan-translated works?.

 

For example,even the Translation in English of Violated Hero I isnt licenced!.

But,there:

http://crimson-visual.blogspot.com/

A Spanish speaking person,translated full-Violated Hero 1 to Spanish...

If they are Full Translation of Visual Novels in English,and even Spanish,why they dont licenced it?.

You know,even Vanilla Fate Stay Night is Full Translated to Spanish!!.

Here they translated

Fate and UBW:

http://fateprojecttranslation.blogspot.com/

And here Heaven Feel:

http://heavensfeelespañol.blogspot.com/

 

Why they dont licence they few VN that are translated in Spanish,and put it Digital Only,or something like that?.

In this,form is not a damage to their business,right?.Because someone make the work for them,and

they dont even needed to print DVD Boxes,to not sell anything.And,i think,they are going to

obtain sales,even if they are few.Is the same that English Market.

Because Spanish State of VN is worse than English VN State!.Even Tsumihime is on Full Spanish!!:

And,is Legal Use Fan-Translation of VN,in English or Spanish?.

Because you know,this is not even licenced...

Question 1

Is Legal Fan-Translations buying the japanese Game?.

Question 2

Why the Companies dont licenced fan-translated works?.

 

Edited by Usuario-1998

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Just now, OutoftheBox said:

I think he's asking why companies don't take the spanish/english fan translations and use those to license and release said vns.

The two things.Why they dont licence translated VN ,and if is legal the fan-translation,buying the japanese game.

And,i know that have to be licenced to USA or Worldwide Digital,so FSN, isnt even in licenced to outside Japan,but is a Example.

But Violated Hero 1 is on English,and Spanish,and they use neither one,in DLsite,but they sell Monster Girl

Quest Part 1,2,3 in English there,and yes Violated Hero 1 is in English DLsite but in japanese...

Edited by Usuario-1998

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1 hour ago, Usuario-1998 said:

The two things.Why they dont licence translated VN ,and if is legal the fan-translation,buying the japanese game.

And,i know that have to be licenced to USA or Worldwide Digital,so FSN, isnt even in licenced to outside Japan,but is a Example.

But Violated Hero 1 is on English,and Spanish,and they use neither one,in DLsite,but they sell Monster Girl

Quest Part 1,2,3 in English there...

If I remember well, most Japanese eroge and nukige are licenced to be distributed exclusively in Japan, so you basically shouldn't even have them outside of the country. Applying the patch, just like modding, is not strictly legal, but it's also in this grey zone where it's inconceivable for an average user to be charged with anything - in practice, only people creating and distributing those patches can potentially get in trouble.

And because translation patches themselves are a violation of intellectual property laws and are targeted towards "improper" use of media licensed for Japan only, Japanese corporations have sticks showed far too deep up their asses to actually take them and turn them into official releases - that would mean more or less officially condoning those illegal practices they originated from. There are also very legitimate issues concerning compliance of many eroge and nukige with western child porn and obscenity laws, along with ratings and other legal issues.

If I'm wrong on any of this please someone correct me. :)

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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Read the last part of the title as Spanish Inquisition.

Mildly disappointed.

 

Spoiler

 

Question 1

Is Legal Fan-Translations buying the japanese Game?.

 

 

You questions is whether a patch becomes legal when you bought the original game.

Whether you bought the game or used an illegal copy of the game is irrelevant for that.

If you steal four winter tyres and use them on a stolen car it's the same as if using them on a car you bought.

 

Whether you bought the game or also downloaded it "illegally" is irrelevant for the legal status of the patch.
 

 

You can't just translate a book and then publish it for free.

What you are doing by patching your legally bought game is buying a book cutting out the pages and putting the unlicensed translation in the book cover.

It doesnt magically make the unlicensed translation of the book legal.

 

 

However depending on the laws of your country there is a grey zone for digital data about "stealing" and then using it.

Sharing translations, music etc. i.e intelectual property you dont own is obviously illegal.

 

Downloading and using it is the famous grey zone people talk about.

No idea about the laws in your country about said "grey zone"

If downloading and then playing a game is illegal in your country, then downloading a patch with a bought copy is illegal as well.

You are using stolen tyres on your legally bought car :Kappa: (Unless stealing cars and tyres is a grey zone in your country :meguface: )

 

Buying one thing doesnt make stealing another thing legal.

 

It's just not as wrong, from a moral standpoint.

 

Quote

 

Question 2

Why the Companies dont licenced fan-translated works?.

 

 

Japanese companies usually don't care about realeasing their works for the west.

Their VNs are released by western companies.

And there are in fact cases were fantranslations have been used as base for an official translation.

 

The big problem is, why would someone buy a fantranslation if they can get it for free :Kappa:

 

Edited by Ningen

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This a part of my Country Law about software.

Is on Spanish:

Artículo 71.

El usuario lícito de un programa de ordenador podrá realizar una adaptación de dicho programa cuando sea indispensable para la utilización del programa en un ordenador específico y esté de acuerdo con la licencia otorgada al usuario lícito; y la misma sea destinada exclusivamente como copia de resguardo para sustituir la copia legítimamente adquirida, cuando ésta no pueda utilizarse por daño o pérdida. La reproducción de un programa de ordenador, inclusive para uso personal, exigirá la autorización del titular de los derechos, con la excepción de la copia de seguridad.

Artículo 72.

No constituye transformación, a los efectos del Artículo 31, salvo prohibición expresa del titular de los derechos, la adaptación de un programa realizada por el usuario lícito, incluida la corrección de errores, siempre que esté destinada exclusivamente para el uso personal.

La obtención de copias del programa así adaptado, para su utilización por varias personas o su distribución al público, exigirá la autorización expresa del titular de los derechos.

Artículo 31.

El autor podrá exigir al poseedor del ejemplar único o raro de la obra el acceso al mismo en la forma que mejor convenga a los intereses de ambos, y siempre que ello sea necesario para el ejercicio de sus derechos morales o patrimoniales, quedando obligado a cubrir todo tipo de gasto que ocasione dicho acceso.

Artículo 73.

Ninguna de las disposiciones del presente capítulo podrá interpretarse de manera que permita que su aplicación perjudique de modo injustificado los legítimos intereses del titular de los derechos o sea contraria a la explotación normal del programa informático.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you dont understand,here says basically:If you are a licit user,you can edit the software,when is really needed,but only if the licence of the program permits you.

And in backup cases,you dont needed the autor permision,you can backup,without fear.

You can adapt what you buy,and fix errors,if is for personal use,and is legal,and is forbiven obtain the software by means the autor dont put it.

The autor have to put where he want,and you can only buy where he put,it,also.

But,the patch,is not the game.Is file.

And,you cant use this law in a mode that is not just,or is contrary to the normal use of the software.

 

In other word,is legal the patch if the author permit you use it.And if dont know Dieselmine

or DLsite forbiden of permit that.

And if i buy this a im going to buy it via DLsite English,digital,but in Japanese and patch it,so

i suppose that the international-japanese vertion is legal outside Japan,right?

If you understand this...what you think?.Is Fan-Translation licit,in my case?.

And,please answer..is DLsite legal?.

 

Edited by Usuario-1998

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I actually think patching is perfectly leglal same as modding, once you have aquired a license to use a product, you can do whatever you want with it as long as you don redistribute it. It should be tsted in court.

Edited by WinterfuryZX

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Also i think modding is legal,and if modding is legal,and VN are on PC,why translation should be ilegal if,you bought the game?.

I dont know japan law,but if in western countrys modding is allowed,why dont fan translation?.

If you bought the game,obviusly.

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unofficial_patch

While court cases directly involving unofficial patches are not existing, there were similar cases in court. The case of Galoob v. Nintendo found that it was not copyright infringement by a user to apply an unauthorized patch to a system (while the scope was very specific to the Game Genie). On the other hand, the case Micro Star v. FormGen Inc. found that user-generated maps were derivative works of the original game. In Sega v. Accolade, the 9th Circuit held that making copies in the course of reverse engineering is a fair use, when it is the only way to get access to the "ideas and functional elements" in the copyrighted code, and when "there is a legitimate reason for seeking such access". According to Copyright law of the United States 17 U.S. Code § 117, the owner of a copy of a program can modify it as necessary for "Maintenance or Repair",[24] without permission from the copyright holder; an argumentation also raised by Daniel J. Bernstein professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago.[25] Similar user rights are given also according to European copyright laws. The question if and which copyright holder unauthorized changes of lawfully obtained software are fair and beneficial, is a long-standing debate among academic scholars.[26] An article of Helbraun law firm remarks in the context of fan translations that redistributing complete games with adaptions most likely does not fall under fair use, but in patch form it might fall under fair use, while this was never tested in court.[27]

 

And here https://www.helbraunlaw.com/reviewing-the-questionable-legality-of-fan-made-translations-of.html

and here also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_translation_of_video_games

say that never has been proved in court,but probably is fair-use.

 

 

Edited by Usuario-1998

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So is never proved in court,and the companies ignore the patches,and probably is fair use...

At least say me if DLsite is legal,because in that law page say that is fair use,and i think is

not a problem until they are proved otherwise.

So, DLsite is a oficial distribution site?.Because i only i am going to give money to

a oficial page.

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Modifying your files is most likely considered legal in theory.

However you are using a patch with pirated content in it for that.

If you were just modifying valiues there wouldn`t be much of a problem.

 

Sometimes on forums there are rules that only allow small patches without any CGs etc i.e. parts of the game in them.

However the script is also a part of the game.  Sure it's only a few kb, but printed it's a whole book.

Sharing a script is no different from sharing CGs.

Which is why distributing translation patches is illegal. You can't just distribute parts of the game, even if modified.

 

While I doubt you will get sued for pirating because of a patch, it's no different from pirating parts of the game.
Translation patches contain the script, which as said, is part of the game.

 

Quote

So, DLsite is a oficial distribution site?.Because i only i am going to give money to

 

Yes, DLsite is an official site.

 

Edited by Ningen

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The patch contains modfied chunks of a game you already own. Provided you legally own the full game. Unless the patch contains some additional unlicensed material, such as VA patches ripped from console.

It's at the very least a debatable argument that should be tested in a court.

Edited by WinterfuryZX

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50 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

The patch contains modfied chunks of a game you already own. Provided you legally own the full game. Unless the patch contains some additional unlicensed material, such as VA patches ripped from console.

It's at the very least a debatable argument that should be tested in a court.

A translation is considered a "derivative work" under most copyright law, which requires permission from the owner of the original work's copyright to reproduce.  However, under most copyright systems, creating a translation FOR YOUR OWN USE is legal (assuming you own a legal copy of the original work).  In the case of a fan translation patch, the original creation of the translation is usually legal.  Distributing it becomes a copyright violation.  As Ningen said, this does not change based on whether or not you own a legal copy of the original work.

 

It gets more confusing in that the illegal translation is, itself, a copyrighted work - the original owners cannot just take it and distribute it themselves without violating the copyright of the pirates that violated their copyright.  So, just because there is a fan translation out there, it doesn't mean the original owners can just grab it and start selling their game (with the fan translation) in DLSite or other stores.  If they did, they could be sued by the fan translators.  Of course, doing so would require the original translators to identify themselves in order to sue, which would in turn be a confession to the original copyright violation... any company that did so would probably get away with it.

 

As a reminder to everyone:  Copyright law is similar in many countries, because of the many international treaties about IP, but they are NOT identical.  For example, the US concept of "Fair Use" is severely restricted or even absent entirely in some places.  Always check with a professional lawyer in your own nation if it matters, rather than taking the advice of random people on the internet.

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Is safe until is proved otherwise in court.And this USA Lawyer Page:

https://www.helbraunlaw.com/reviewing-the-questionable-legality-of-fan-made-translations-of.html

says that is fair-use probably,but is not proved in court.And my country is a very undeveloped country,so

i dont think im going to have problems.Is worse to not buy the game.And if in USA,dont comden this,why a country like mine

that dont even have a position about normal porn,buy permit Playboy Magazine without any law would comdem this?.

Even if this is ilegal is not immoral.And i dont think is ilegal,al least is not proven.So i am buy this when i could.

Porn in my country is a legal hole also.And in my Constitution says that i can modify copyrighted software, that are legaly buyed by me.

Is very likely,that in my country this fall in Fair use.

And,if i own the game,and is patch somewhere,is like i modified the game myself,in a sense.

Like WinterfuryZX says,is a very debatable argument,that have to be proven in court,and i dont

think a country like mine would be the first.

Edited by Usuario-1998

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Its illegal in Europe/ US/ whatever.

But im pretty sure its Legal in China. there are many translation groups that sells translation patches for money. and many ppl buys them so i guess its legal

the fact that the companies themselves refused to do localisation is already bad, so fan translation are a must

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