Funyarinpa Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Think this is pretty important news. Summary of the video (not mine): Quote In short, a few bulletpoints: Winged Cloud refused to address any complaints about their F2P browser games their community manager passed on to them, and when protests of the issues came to a head with a long hyped update being nothing but Lootboxes instead of real content (I shit you not), the CEO (Nick Fahr) placed all blame on the community manager for it and fired him the next day. Underpays artists with claims of financial troubles in the company that don't add up in comparison to the profits Winged Cloud was actually drawing in One of the artists, Wanaca, is underpaid even worse than the others, if not outright not paid whatsoever - Former employees paint the image that Wanaca is being held in cultlike conditions and not allowed to take outside commissions, with evidence pointing towards here being forced to stay on-board these past several years with blackmail/gaslighting/other social manipulation. Forces employees to delete all their old social media and use company-controlled accounts that Nick Fahr has access to, putting their social-life under Winged Cloud's control. Scammed musicians by running with sample-work without paying. Swapped, obfuscated, and falsified credits for art and programming. And these points involving Michaela Laws become unbelievably audacious. Cuts off Michaela's original script for Sakura Spirit without telling her, and do a total rewrite with her in the dark about her work going to waste. Winged Cloud (re)hires her to be the voice-director for their next visual novel, Guardian Spell, which was being Kickstarted in conjunction with Sekai Project as publisher - However Winged Cloud wants the TOTAL voiceacting budget AFTER Kickstarter for the FULL game with thousands of lines per character to be a measly $250 - Not per role, but split across all the voiceactors. Michaela is able to negotiate with Winged Cloud to increase the voice budget to $100 per voiceactor. Still appallingly low, but the voicecast is desperate to have something on their resume. After the success of the Kickstarter, Winged Cloud keeps postponing the start of dubbing, refusing to pass on the script to Michaela with excuses about delays including throwing writers under the bus. After five months of not receiving the script, the Kickstarter is cancelled - BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE: Winged Cloud puts out a press-release regarding the Kickstarter's failure, which blames Michaela and her team as a chief reason for the failure of Guardian Spell, claiming they were asking for an excessive amount of money above what their contract agreed to. Niche-gaming news sites run with the story, causing damages to Michaela and the rest of the team's fledgling voiceacting careers If true, this is extremely fucked up. Plk_Lesiak, Kenshin_sama and PapaRabbi 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Woah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ningen Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Why am i not surprised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 That's old stuff already. Some of those facts were already known long before that video was made, but people were too afraid to talk about it. I'm pretty sure Wanaca is being blackmailed, otherwise no sane artist with her kind of skill would ever allow to be chained like that. She deserves better. I just hope everyone will finally open their eyes and stop supporting Winged Cloud and it's shovelware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenshin_sama Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Honestly, I thought Winged Cloud was just a harmless company putting out shit games to make money. But this is a atrocious. I feel so bad for Wanaca for getting stuck with that company too. Edited December 10, 2017 by Kenshin_sama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plk_Lesiak Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 My Fucking God, not that I've expected anything good from that company, but this is seriously messed up. Even if we remove everything that's not raw facts from trustworthy sources, ignoring all the speculation, it makes that CEO look like a first-rate scam artist and psychopath... Why the VN market has to be such a magnet for scumbags? :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamysyu Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 A good example why you shouldn't trust companies that are only focused on making money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 This doesn't surprise me... base prices for VN staff in the West (localization or making) have always been ridiculously low. Moreover, the tendency in relatively new business markets is for the abusive managers/producers to rise faster, because they cut costs and inflate prices. It just surprises me it took this long for an incident like this to come into the open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRaven Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I've been a fan of Wanaca since she made Demon Master Chris. She was the only reason I still bought stuff from them. To hear that she and others are apparently abused in such a terrible way is just horrible - can this really be true?! There would be surely many OELVN teams that would love to get Wanaca onboard, but that she's literally held hostage sounds like stuff from a bad movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dergonu Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Yet another reason to never touch Sakura games. (Like we really needed another one...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgentstR Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 This would be relevant to the discussion I suppose: https://twitter.com/Wanaca91/status/938925993343012864 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenshin_sama Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ArgentstR said: This would be relevant to the discussion I suppose: https://twitter.com/Wanaca91/status/938925993343012864 So would the 11:15 mark of the video. https://youtu.be/xlh8e201lI0?t=11m15s Edited December 11, 2017 by Kenshin_sama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 42 minutes ago, ArgentstR said: This would be relevant to the discussion I suppose: https://twitter.com/Wanaca91/status/938925993343012864 There's literally no way to know, if this wasn't written by someone else, or whether she was forced to post this kind of response. Especially the last part of the statement; it's so hilariously awkward, I'd die from embarrassment myself if I had to post something like this on Twitter or any other social medium outlet. Eitherway, we'll probably never know. Maybe for the better. People should start to mind their own business. Edited December 11, 2017 by Narcosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRaven Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, ArgentstR said: This would be relevant to the discussion I suppose: https://twitter.com/Wanaca91/status/938925993343012864 To be honest, that statement from Wanaca sounds a lot more believable. While I can believe that Winged Cloud did some shady things, it would be outright idiotic to treat your main artist that badly. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. She also seems to be Spanish (?!) or at least European, so she isn't exactly sitting in a prison of a South American drug cartel. If she wants to leave and work for another company I don't think anyone could stop her. It's more likely that others got the short end of the stick. I'm willing to believe that. Edited December 11, 2017 by ChaosRaven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plk_Lesiak Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 41 minutes ago, ArgentstR said: This would be relevant to the discussion I suppose: https://twitter.com/Wanaca91/status/938925993343012864 I don't like conspiracy theories, but it's either just a fairly poorly constructed clarification (language barrier?) or there's something seriously fishy about it. I mean, she doesn't have a contract because she "trusts her boss so much"? After years of working for the same company non-stop? Also, it's the only company in the world that needs talented artists and she wouldn't have money to buy food without it? Like Narcossis said, it really doesn't prove anything. No example of her supposed commission work for other companies, no specifics on her relationship with Winged Cloud. Just "I'm happy, nothing to see here, don't look any further". It doesn't mean that the allegations are true, but they're strong enough to be worried about (and to blacklist Winged Cloud, I've considered buying Sakura Dungeon out of curiousity but definitely won't do it now). Nandemonai and Dreamysyu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranzo Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Damn that's pretty terrible Sakura games are pretty damn horrible though they look like the exact game over and over The only one I played was Sakura fantasy which was kind of good but they never bothered to make the second chapter because they were so busy churning games out So there is no love lost on my end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenshin_sama Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, ChaosRaven said: To be honest, that statement from Wanaca sounds a lot more believable. While I can believe that Winged Cloud did some shady things, it would be outright idiotic to treat your main artist that badly. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. Why else would Nick want to fire Tonee89 and replace him with Wanaca? If there's one thing you can always count on with shitty CEOs, it's that they will do anything they can get away with to maximize profits, even if it's only in the short term. It's not unusual for a company to treat its bottom line poorly. And seriously, it's hard to take what she says at face value when Nick has been known to take control of others' social media accounts. He could very easily be trying to save his own ass. I don't want to rule out the possibility that this is really Wanaca, but I'd feel better if she went in for an actual interview. Her reason for not participating in one seems way too convenient. 19 minutes ago, ChaosRaven said: If she wants to leave and work for another company I don't think anyone could stop her. What exactly is stopping her anyways? If she's getting paid less than Tonee89, I can't imagine why she wouldn't move to a better company that pays more. Edited December 11, 2017 by Kenshin_sama Plk_Lesiak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 13 minutes ago, Kenshin_sama said: What exactly is stopping her anyways? If she's getting paid less than Tonee89, I can't imagine why she wouldn't move to a better company that pays more. Like the video suggested there's the possibilty of blackmail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenshin_sama Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Just now, SeniorBlitz said: Like the video suggested there's the possibilty of blackmail. I wasn't asking out of curiosity, lol. I was trying to make a point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said: Like Narcossis said, it really doesn't prove anything. No example of her supposed commission work for other companies, no specifics on her relationship with Winged Cloud. Just "I'm happy, nothing to see here, don't look any further". It doesn't mean that the allegations are true, but they're strong enough to be worried about (and to blacklist Winged Cloud, I've considered buying Sakura Dungeon out of curiousity but definitely won't do it now). I'd say she's most probably too young and inexperienced to see the gist of the problem. She probably doesn't see it the same way we do, including the possibility others might have been using her for their own benefit, while she just keeps drawing. Those statements are highly dubious to believe in from a freelancer's standpoint, because freelancing is underpaid nearly everywhere. The only exception is US, but you'll still earn much more, if you're a popular SNS artist open for private commissions, than a freelancer of a similar calibre, working for small companies / indie studios. You won't be able to survive on your own through freelancing for a single, small company in Europe - especially one like Winged Cloud and Spain... isn't currently the most wealthiest country, either. In fact, quite the contrary. It's just hard to believe in that post, unless someone's also directly providing for her daily necessities (bills, rent, housing, etc). Been there, done that. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. A stable contract is a lot better in nearly every single way. Depending on the place you live in, you get money, insurance, medical care and pay taxes like any normal, respecting citizen should. Anything else is either illegal work or plain refusal of your own future, as without discharged tax you're not earning for your pension. I'd be on the streets or living with my parents right now, if I'd continue small time freelancing in my country. It's NG, period. Europe is currently a bad place for artists in general, unless you make it to the top. Kenshin_sama and Plk_Lesiak 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 38 minutes ago, Kenshin_sama said: I wasn't asking out of curiosity, lol. I was trying to make a point! Sorry xoP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nier Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) http://vnsnow.com/update-former-guardians-spell-va-director-speaks-to-vns-now/ http://vnsnow.com/sekai-project-retracts-2014-statement-on-the-guardians-spell-apologizes-to-michaela-laws/ LOL at trying to pay a slave wage of $75 per voice actor while demanding them to deliver the voices in an unrealistic timetable, this is not shady buisness at all~. Edited December 11, 2017 by Nier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrimsonFucker Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 On 2017. 12. 10. at 11:01 PM, Plk_Lesiak said: My Fucking God, not that I've expected anything good from that company, but this is seriously messed up. Even if we remove everything that's not raw facts from trustworthy sources, ignoring all the speculation, it makes that CEO look like a first-rate scam artist and psychopath... Why the VN market has to be such a magnet for scumbags? :/ Every market has scumbags. Believe me my family experienced something similar in the past. The VN market is just smaller so it's easier to spot the shit. I always knew Wingd Cloud was a shitty company, with shitty games but I never expected them to be this fucked up. Plk_Lesiak and Dreamysyu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.