Jump to content

Site Work Failed, But We Didn't Die

Ugh. Still more roadblocks. Need to get an as-yet unknown password from Nay in order to get this sucker changed. For now, please enjoy the mess of a forums we've got, and dream of the forums we will probably never one day have.

< 3 - Tay

You can dismiss this alert by clicking on the "X" button

mitchhamilton

lets talk about incest. :mare emote:

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, mitchhamilton said:

so yeah, as you may have noticed if youve consumed ANY japanese medium, incest seems to be a recurring trope. while not every single anime/manga/vn has small elements or even any elements of incest in them, its still interesting that its a recurring theme. usually its the little sister who either adores their brother on borderline romantically interested to full blown "onii-chan and i are destined to be together, have a family and make babies together."

 

why is this? why the obsession? why do i read vns with it, even vns that have full on sex with full blood related sister/s? for the third question, its the taboo of it. thats pretty much it. i just find it more interesting to have two characters cross that line because of their relationship with each other. of course not all incest does it for me. dont like son and mother stuff even though i dont mind daughter and dad stuff. oh boy, here comes the sjw's. although im pretty sure my last comment wouldnt be the only thing triggering them in this post. :meguface:

 

what about you? whats your take on the matter, good or bad? do you enjoy it? do you hate it? do you seek it out sometimes? whats your preference? do you wanna see it burn in a fire that cleanses all of humanity like bestiality, netorare, and sakura games?

 

also, happy holidays!

SJW's? more like RWJ's haha... anyway i enjoy it sometimes. And I also don't like son and mother stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Incidentally, the main reason for the incest taboo isn't really religious.  It is because if multiple generations inbreed, you get sickly kids, stupid kids, and psychotic kids.  Most cultures that aren't isolated picked up this taboo relatively early on, and significant attempts were made to prevent too close of marriages in smaller communities, even going so far as to offer girls up to travelers with the intention of having them get pregnant.  Since those were generally a time when kids were raised by a village, there was generally either no taboo or only a small one on sex outside of marriage. 

If you read the Old Testament, you'll pick up on a lot of oddities that are glossed over in modern culture, such as marriages between half-siblings and first cousins, whereas Catholicism tended to ban close marriages outside of royalty whenever possible.  This wasn't a religious taboo but rather a practical one born out of experience that became a custom that spread to all European cultures, to one extent or another.  The demonstrated results in royal families only reinforced this.

Edited by Clephas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Clephas said:

Incidentally, the main reason for the incest taboo isn't really religious.  It is because if multiple generations inbreed, you get sickly kids, stupid kids, and psychotic kids.  Most cultures that aren't isolated picked up this taboo relatively early on, and significant attempts were made to close of marriages in smaller communities, even going so far as to offer girls up to travelers with the intention of having them get pregnant.  Since those were generally a time when kids were raised by a village, there was generally either no taboo or only a small one on sex outside of marriage. 

If you read the Old Testament, you'll pick up on a lot of oddities that are glossed over in modern culture, such as marriages between half-siblings and first cousins, whereas Catholicism tended to ban close marriages outside of royalty whenever possible.  This wasn't a religious taboo but rather a practical one born out of experience that became a custom that spread to all European cultures, to one extent or another.  The demonstrated results in royal families only reinforced this.

giphy.gif

 

so, @Clephas how do you feel about reading it in vn or others? enjoy them? hate them? dont mind either way?

Edited by mitchhamilton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mitchhamilton said:

giphy.gif

 

so, @Clephas how do you feel about reading it in vn or others? enjoy them? hate them? dont mind either way?

If it is interesting, I like it, if it is boring, I don't.  I hated it in Hoshimemo, because the imouto-character was annoying and their relationship wasn't interesting.  However, in Reminiscence or Hatsugamai... the incestuous part is the best part.  For that matter, Unmei Yohou's imouto incest route is nice and screwy and thus interesting.

The fact is, the more twisted a situation, the more a good writer can make it interesting.  Incest is perfect for that, and as a result, a disproportionate number of incest relationships make for great stories.  That said, if you asked me how I feel about rl incest...?  Blech.  Simply, blech.  Not because it is gross, but because it is stupid.  Fiction is fiction, rl is rl.  If you can't make the distinction once you are done reading/playing/watching, then you shouldn't have anything to do with fiction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see the appeal of it in the whole taboo porn deal because let's face it I've looked it up quite a few times (Sister and mother stuff specifically) but in visual novels I'm ambivalent towards it. It kind of always feels very forced and it doesn't really add much for me. Every time I hear a character say oh were not really related I roll my eyes because I know what's bound to happen next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently, 6 people controlling half of the entire world's wealth is permitted by the universe (and so is attempting to monetize everything under the sun). So if they can do that, then we can indulge in whatever sexual fetishes we like. Also, we as a species are too sexually repressed for my liking (I say that as a sexually frustrated male myself xD).

Cynicism aside, I don't have any real issues with incest anyways. I'm not really into it, but I don't mind it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Incest isn’t a fetish of mine, but I do like having women in their 30s or 40s as routes in VN.  The two most common ways they show up seem to be teachers and family members, so I go with it.  Not much interest in siblings or father/daughter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28/11/2017 at 4:14 AM, Dr.Bisquick said:

Would that be considered homosexual or masturbation? Either way, I'm down with it.

It's called selfcest and it exists as a fetish 

As for incest, a fetish is  fetish and given how popular it is in porn, I'd wager many people woylf be OK with it actually (not necessarily themselves, but between consenting adults) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, IRL I don't really care about incest, or whatever people do in their private life that doesn't hurt others, policy of mine. If they were to have children though, then I'd actually have an issue and the moral obligation to reprehend it, since it'd be causing harm to a third person who shouldn't bear the responsability for their parents deeds.

Now, onto fiction. I can in theory appreciate a well-written incest story like any other. The incest element per se doesn't usually put me off, though I do agree with those of you who said that when it goes beyond siblings or cousins it tends to stir up some feeling of aversion, at least at first sight. Perhaps it's just due to the fact that I cannot wrap my head around how someone could develop romantic feelings or sexual desire for, say, their parents. 

That said, I'll always defend fiction's rights to explore any topic imaginable in every imaginable way. Not only it is entitled to do so, but it's a good thing to do since it shoves us out of our confort zone and makes us think about topics that often woudn't even cross our minds. 

Edited by Thyndd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think sibling incest might be convenient in harem series and short series.

In terms of a harem series it is usually good to early on have characters introduced who loves the MC. If it takes too long people interested in it might drop it. Because of this I think that character tropes like little sisters and childhood friends are quite useful. Most of the time they already love the MC, as such they can be useful for quickly giving the viewer what they want and then be explored more in details afterwards. They may also be useful for nukige where the characters are suposed to be in love. Most nukige don't really want to use much time on buliding the relationships before they have sex. Because of this they either have to start with minor sexual acts and build up to actual sex while managing the ralationship growth, like for instance eroge! sex and games makes sexy games, or they can have a characters that already love the MC such as little sisters or childhood friends. The same would be true for short eromanga/nukige/eroanime where there isn't enough time to build a relationship. This is of course only in regards to where there is supose to be some kind of love between the characters, so most nukige would be excluded from this.

 

This is of course not the only reason for sibling incest in media, but I do think it might have helped it get more popular in manga, anime, LN and VN than in typical western media

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's because incest is wincest!

(I couldn't resist myself.)

But think about it, the first hentai, cream lemon starts off with a sister coming along to her brother. I mean if you were going to make the world's first hardcore porn anime, why would you start with incest unless that's their version of "vanilla" porn. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not only is incest sacred, as it keeps the bloodline pure and your children won't receive any terrible genes such as the dreaded triple-chin syndrome, but it is also an important political move that ensures the titles stay within the family. The Habsburgs are an inspiration to us all. Praise Xwedodah!

Edited by URV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28/11/2017 at 12:48 PM, Soulless Watcher said:

On a side note, I always chuckle when I see someone say it is creepy or disgusting because they have a corresponding family member in their family. I have sisters, a mother, and a father and I have never considered any of them in a romantic way. I'm actually quite horrified by the idea actually. To me it is akin to someone disliking a first person shooter because they don't think they would do well in a combat situation or, for a metaphor more close to the subject matter, stories of a romance between a student and teacher because they don't have a teacher they want to bone. It just seems odd that some people are all to eager to insert themselves in some works of fiction and mentally distance themselves in others.

To me this comment made by far the most sense about why it works... until he mentioned not having a teacher they want to bone. High school was a long time ago for me but this...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the taboo/intimacy angle, but it's kind of disturbing how so few works (especially in the VN medium) actually elaborate on how real life incest is (pretty much inherently) manipulative and that romanticized incest ignores the complexities (and flaws) of real people and real relationships- and that's when we disregard the fact that an extremely significant amount (if not the vast majority) of incestuous relationships involve child sexual abuse and/or grooming, or otherwise manipulation (which can occur between two related adults of age- familial bonds can be manipulated whether you're 18 or not).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

I understand the taboo/intimacy angle, but it's kind of disturbing how so few works (especially in the VN medium) actually elaborate on how real life incest is (pretty much inherently) manipulative and that romanticized incest ignores the complexities (and flaws) of real people and real relationships- and that's when we disregard the fact that an extremely significant amount (if not the vast majority) of incestuous relationships involve child sexual abuse and/or grooming, or otherwise manipulation (which can occur between two related adults of age- familial bonds can be manipulated whether you're 18 or not).

Well, probably because they're love stories and not moralistic tales of child abuse and psychological manipulation? Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of the realities of most cases of incest, but the way I've seen it portrayed in non-nukige VNs was romance between consenting adults/adolescents that were more or less equals - a fairly pure "forbidden love" fantasies that don't have to relate to how things look IRL. Obviously, there's a risk of romanticizing incest to the point people lose the sight of the obvious problems related to it, but I don't think many people take these fantasies that seriously.

On the other hand, being a bit open-minded and not automatically condemning every incestuous relationship in the world as abuse is not necessarily a bad thing. Laws against incest as such make little sense, as child abuse, coercing other into sex etc. etc. is already covered by other legal measures, while prohibiting relationships between consenting adults because of their blood ties, without any regard for their personal histories just feels superficial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Well, probably because they're love stories and not moralistic tales of child abuse and psychological manipulation? Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of the realities of most cases of incest, but the way I've seen it portrayed in non-nukige VNs was romance between consenting adults/adolescents that were more or less equals - a fairly pure "forbidden love" fantasies that don't have to relate to how things look IRL. Obviously, there's a risk of romanticizing incest to the point people lose the sight of the obvious problems related to it, but I don't think many people take these fantasies that seriously.

On the other hand, being a bit open-minded and not automatically condemning every incestuous relationship in the world as abuse is not necessarily a bad thing. Laws against incest as such make little sense, as child abuse, coercing other into sex etc. etc. is already covered by other legal measures, while prohibiting relationships between consenting adults because of their blood ties, without any regard for their personal histories just feels superficial.

The thing is that the overwhelming depiction of incest stories as love/erotic stories that depict a (fictional) mutual consent creates an environment and a context in which real life incest is seen as benign, and that's not true in real life.

I'm not sold on the idea of any incestuous relationship, potential manipulation caused by familial ties is too strong for me to grant any such relationship the benefit of the doubt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Funyarinpa said:

The thing is that the overwhelming depiction of incest stories as love/erotic stories that depict a (fictional) mutual consent creates an environment and a context in which real life incest is seen as benign, and that's not true in real life

That might indeed not be always true, but so what? If you can't tell, it should be none of your business. You mention the risk of "romanticizing" incest like a situation of always mutual consent, and sure, for easily normally very young impressionable people that might be true, but that is not a reason to condemn works of fiction that portrays that topic as school shooting is not a reason to ban videogames. An appropiate education is fundamental to help young people to not lose track of reality. 

Furthermore, if you can't tell the reality of a situation, you should avoid making judgements about it, because you run into a far more dangerous risk that the one you mentioned, that is intruding into people's personal lives and fundamental rights, like once did the catholic curch, who for some reason was very, very concerned with your sexual activities. 

As I said in a previous post, I'm not anyone to judge the actions of two responsible adults that don't cause any harm to anyone. If we were to discuss if two genetically related people should be able to have children, then I do have my share to object. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, ittaku said:

To me this comment made by far the most sense about why it works... until he mentioned not having a teacher they want to bone. High school was a long time ago for me but this...

Are you saying that you were sexually attracted to many teachers in your high school days or are you saying that the "sexy teacher" is an outlier fetish? Granted my tastes are quite deviant when compared to conventional fetishes, but I had thought that the "sexy teacher" was a common theme in porn and trashy romance novels. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Soulless Watcher said:

Are you saying that you were sexually attracted to many teachers in your high school days or are you saying that the "sexy teacher" is an outlier fetish? Granted my tastes are quite deviant when compared to conventional fetishes, but I had thought that the "sexy teacher" was a common theme in porn and trashy romance novels. 

I was in an all-boys school and most of us had a few teachers we would have died to have boned in high school.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×