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moenovel is releasing "A sky full of stars"


ratboi

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21 minutes ago, Decay said:

Those tags were added by Moenovel, including the "nudity" tag. That tag is often used for partial nudity, however. 

Still, as Mr. Poltroon said (and was misunderstood for saying), Moenovel's censorship policies have definitely changed since IMHHW. If you're concerned that the game will be completely sanitized for little children with everything even slightly questionable altered, then I think it's at least somewhat likely that won't be the case here. 

In what ways have censorship policies changed since IMHHW? Honest question; i'm not trying to be leading here. Because here is what I've personally observed since then:

  • LoveKami series was initially released in ENG 17+, then later 18+ content was added to the game in the subsequent Japan releases
  • Failure to address questions related to censorship and 18+ content from a PR standpoint

None of this gives me any confidence that they've changed their policies. If anything, what I'm observing shows that they still feel just as strongly about it as a business, but are experimenting with various tricky ways of implementing the same policies (for example, pretending that content is original (e.g. LoveKami) but doing subsequent release with 18+ content).

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20 minutes ago, voidpointer said:

In what ways have censorship policies changed since IMHHW? Honest question; i'm not trying to be leading here. Because here is what I've personally observed since then:

  • LoveKami series was initially released in ENG 17+, then later 18+ content was added to the game in the subsequent Japan releases
  • Failure to address questions related to censorship and 18+ content from a PR standpoint

None of this gives me any confidence that they've changed their policies. If anything, what I'm observing shows that they still feel just as strongly about it as a business, but are experimenting with various tricky ways of implementing the same policies (for example, pretending that content is original (e.g. LoveKami) but doing subsequent release with 18+ content).

They haven't stopped censoring. How far that censorship goes has changed, however. That's what we're referring to.
Their policies have changed to the extent that in IMHHW any mentions of sex or lewd behaviour was written out, kissing scenes were toned down, and a whole route's plot was changed.

The same did not occur with LoveKami. Lewd behaviour was prominent all around. Whether the plot was changed I can't really say, but some change in their mentality has definitely come to pass since IMHHW.

 

Whether the above makes any difference at all to you is up to you.
It does to me.

Edited by Mr Poltroon
Removed padding.
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16 minutes ago, voidpointer said:

In what ways have censorship policies changed since IMHHW? Honest question; i'm not trying to be leading here. Because here is what I've personally observed since then:

  • LoveKami series was initially released in ENG 17+, then later 18+ content was added to the game in the subsequent Japan releases
  • Failure to address questions related to censorship and 18+ content from a PR standpoint

None of this gives me any confidence that they've changed their policies. If anything, what I'm observing shows that they still feel just as strongly about it as a business, but are experimenting with various tricky ways of implementing the same policies (for example, pretending that content is original (e.g. LoveKami) but doing subsequent release with 18+ content).

They did more than remove IMHHW's h-scenes. They removed anything even vaguely sexual in nature and in some instances even censored kissing scenes. These are alterations that were not made with LoveKami. Hence, they changed their censorship policies.

It seems possible that the only changes that will be made to Miagete Goran are the changes (almost) every other company makes when releasing eroge on Steam.

Edited by Decay
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10 minutes ago, Decay said:

They did more than remove IMHHW's h-scenes. They removed anything even vaguely sexual in nature and in some instances even censored kissing scenes. These are alterations that were not made with LoveKami. Hence, they changed their censorship policies.

It seems possible that the only changes that will be made to Miagete Goran are the changes (almost) every other company makes when releasing eroge on Steam.

I think the problem is that they only release versions without the h scenes in, without anyway of putting them back in, or buying an alternative version from a website containing the h scense (like denpa soft and sekai project for example)

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Just now, ratboi said:

I think the problem is that they only release versions without the h scenes in, without anyway of putting them back in, or buying an alternative version from a website containing the h scense (like denpa soft and sekai project for example)

That's a problem for some, but not for everyone (I don't really give too much of a shit, for instance). The further censorship that happened in IMHHW was a much bigger dealbreaker for many. 

The actual biggest issue is that the IMHHW translation that was pure garbage. We still have no confidence that it will be any better in this release. I explained what Moenovel exactly is and how they translate things in this week's VNTS, if you're interested:

Quote

And it’s safe to say that we should be more than a little guarded with “A Sky Full of Stars.” Miagete Goran is a game I’ve been interested in since its release, but it’s hard to be excited about a MoeNovel release after what they did to Konosora/If My Heart Had Wings. I’m sure you understand if you played that. IMHHW’s translation wasn’t pretty.

Some people seem confused as to what exactly MoeNovel is and is not, so I’ll try to lay it out. MoeNovel is not a translation company. MoeNovel is a brand established and managed by Pulltop where they release their games in English. To do this, they hire an actual translation company, Active Gaming Media. This means that contrary to some rumors I’ve heard, MoeNovel is NOT an AGM front. The difference is murky, because in addition to translation, AGM does the web design and PR for MoeNovel, but in the end of the day they’re contractors hired by Pulltop.

So what is AGM? They’re an agency. Agencies are different from licensing and publishing companies as we know them. They don’t publish anything themselves, and are instead contracted to work on games for other companies, and then subcontract out actual localization duties to their staff. AGM’s staff is very large and varied in quality. In effect, AGM is like a localization slot machine. You get a different combination of results with every pull of the lever, with the odds of coming out ahead being heavily stacked against you.

Konosora ended up with triple duds. The weird LoveKami releases were more like triple cherries or something. They had some okay staff on it, but also some not-so-okay staff, and the results were mixed. Miagete Goran/A Sky Full of Stars may not be a total dud like Konosora was, but that’s the thing, we have no idea. It’s just another pull of the lever where literally anything could happen. I’m not too excited to see the results, knowing how badly weighted they are against us.

 

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Just now, Decay said:

That's a problem for some, but not for everyone (I don't really give too much of a shit, for instance). The further censorship that happened in IMHHW was a much bigger dealbreaker for many. 

The actual biggest issue is that the IMHHW translation that was pure garbage.

Did they improve in this department for LoveKami?

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On 17/11/2017 at 10:53 AM, ratboi said:

And from checking the vndb, I doubt we will be getting an 18+ version unless someone makes a restoration patch. Fuck.

If we'll have to wait as long for this restoration patch as the IMHHW restoration patch, then we're in for a rough time.

Edited by Stormwolf
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1 minute ago, Stormwolf said:

If we'll have to wait as long for this restoration patch as the IMHHW restoration patch, then we're in for a tough time.

IIRC, wasn't a big part of the IMHHW restoration patch about fixing the terrible translation too? Hypothetically, if all they have to do is slap in some extra CGs and translate the "oooh aaah" stuff, it shouldn't take as long right?

Giving MoeNovel the benefit of the doubt here...

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3 hours ago, Decay said:

It seems possible that the only changes that will be made to Miagete Goran are the changes (almost) every other company makes when releasing eroge on Steam.

The problem is that this is still censorship when the full version isn't released.

All other localization companies offers the full version through a patch or on a different website. The only reason steam always has censored releases is because that's Steam's policy, and Steam is the biggest VN platform in the west.

But Moenovel doesn't offer the original in any way.

I am glad that they have at least (seemingly, we'll have to wait and see for sure,) stopped literally censoring anything from kissing to innuendos, but the problem still remains; they only localize eroge, then censor them and slap them on steam. Some people might be okay with having H-scenes removed, but that doesn't mean it's okay.

This is eroge we are talking about. If you don't want H-scenes in them, you're playing the wrong genre.

 

Please stop trying to make Moenovel look like the good guys here. They still censor their games, and they still ignore all fan feedback. If you're going to cover this game in the VNTS, please make a disclaimer saying it has been censored, and that supporitng them advocates that.

If people keep supporting Moenovel, they'll keep repeating the same shit over and over. The only way to make them stop is to cut off their money. Trying to tell them what the west wants hasn't worked. People have been doing that since If My Heart Had Wings launched. All they think about is money, and they get that when people keep on buying their censored crap.
The VN localization scene has come so far in the past couple of years. We're finally at a point where censorship doesn't happen that much anymore. Most new eroge localizations gets their respective 18+ versions, and all-ages versions for those who wants that. Everybody wins.

So when a company like Moenovel starts censoring stuff without offering the original anywhere, they are ruining the great thing the west has finally started building. Don't support companies like them; we deserve better.

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1 hour ago, Dergonu said:

The problem is that this is still censorship when the full version isn't released.

All other localization companies offers the full version through a patch or on a different website. The only reason steam always has censored releases is because that's Steam's policy, and Steam is the biggest VN platform in the west.

But Moenovel doesn't offer the original in any way.

I am glad that they have at least (seemingly, we'll have to wait and see for sure,) stopped literally censoring anything from kissing to innuendos, but the problem still remains; they only localize eroge, then censor them and slap them on steam. Some people might be okay with having H-scenes removed, but that doesn't mean it's okay.

This is eroge we are talking about. If you don't want H-scenes in them, you're playing the wrong genre.

 

Please stop trying to make Moenovel look like the good guys here. They still censor their games, and they still ignore all fan feedback. If you're going to cover this game in the VNTS, please make a disclaimer saying it has been censored, and that supporitng them advocates that.

If people keep supporting Moenovel, they'll keep repeating the same shit over and over. The only way to make them stop is to cut off their money. Trying to tell them what the west wants hasn't worked. People have been doing that since If My Heart Had Wings launched. All they think about is money, and they get that when people keep on buying their censored crap.
The VN localization scene has come so far in the past couple of years. We're finally at a point where censorship doesn't happen that much anymore. Most new eroge localizations gets their respective 18+ versions, and all-ages versions for those who wants that. Everybody wins.

So when a company like Moenovel starts censoring stuff without offering the original anywhere, they are ruining the great thing the west has finally started building. Don't support companies like them; we deserve better.

Nobody's trying to make Moenovel/Pulltop look like the good guys. You need to stop snapping at people over this, and you also need to stop telling other people the kinds of games they should or shouldn't be playing. I enjoy eroge with or without the h-scenes, and this preference is none of your business.

I think it's silly to not offer 18+ options for eroge. It would be best if there was that option, and I'd use it if it was available. I also think it's okay to present people with accurate information as to what is and isn't expected to be censored, and I don't understand why you're lashing out against people trying to do so.

Edited by Decay
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If I understood his post, he's just trying to say that offering the all-ages and 18+ variations of a game is objectively a win-win. Trying to find a boundary between "what is and isn't expected to be censored" is highly subjective and you still end up with unhappy people no matter which position you choose on that matter.

I'm personally in agreement with the former (offer all variations; let customers decide). I'd rather have that than someone trying to over-analyze what is/isn't suitable for this market (not insinuating you in this case; IMHO the problem is more broad than the argument we're having in this thread).

Ultimately what MoeNovel is currently doing doesn't matter. I've had to say the same thing to folks getting upset over the EA loot box fiasco. If you don't like what a company is doing, don't buy their shit. It's the only way we're going to get them to change, no matter how many threads we start on Fuwanovel about it (although I will admit, I do like an outlet to complain, especially when I feel the situation won't change in the long term).

Edited by voidpointer
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51 minutes ago, voidpointer said:

Ultimately what MoeNovel is currently doing doesn't matter. I've had to say the same thing to folks getting upset over the EA loot box fiasco. If you don't like what a company is doing, don't buy their shit. It's the only way we're going to get them to change, no matter how many threads we start on Fuwanovel about it (although I will admit, I do like an outlet to complain, especially when I feel the situation won't change in the long term).

I'm pretty skeptical that Moenovel will ever release an 18+ version of anything they've done. Part of me wants to say it's due to that large translation company they're associated with, and they probably don't want to be associated with 18+ content. The release of Shuffle was very similar to all Moenovel releases, especially with regards to 18+ content (no release nor any mention of it), and we know how YumeHaven and Moenovel are connected. 

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4 hours ago, Decay said:

Nobody's trying to make Moenovel/Pulltop look like the good guys. You need to stop snapping at people over this, and you also need to stop telling other people the kinds of games they should or shouldn't be playing. I enjoy eroge with or without the h-scenes, and this preference is none of your business.

I think it's silly to not offer 18+ options for eroge. It would be best if there was that option, and I'd use it if it was available. I also think it's okay to present people with accurate information as to what is and isn't expected to be censored, and I don't understand why you're lashing out against people trying to do so.

I wasn't trying to snap at anyone. If I offended you in any way, I am sorry. (Well, I was snapping at Moenovel, for obvious reasons.) 

What I was trying to say is that censorship is not okay. You seemingly agree to this, great. But when you said the only change made to the game will be what every other company does, it came off the wrong way to me. The way you phrased it makes it seem like Moenovel will be doing what other companies does, by offering the original version as well. But they won't. To me this seemed like you were defending them. 

As someone who helps write the VNTS, you have the ability to influence a lot of people's opinion on things, which is why asked if you could add in a note about Moenovel's censoring when talking about their localizations. You not minding having H-scenes removed is absolutely fine, but that still doesn't make it objectively okay. People need to know that a game has been censored, so they can choose for themselves whether they are okay with thay or not. 

I agree that we shouldn't compare If my heart had wings level of censorship to what was done with Love Kami, though. They are definitely different levels of censorship, and I should have been more clear about that difference myself. 

Censorship is still censorship though, and we shouldn't be okay with it. Like I said above, we deserve better. (And get better treatment from essentially every other localization company.) 

Lastly, my comment about "dont like H, pick a different genre," came out wrong. People can pick what version they want, of course. 

Been writing this on my phone, so pardon the typos. Might be a lot of them. 

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Well to be fair most VN company would use Steam as their store overseas, because right now it was one of well known way to allow the game well known by wide people. As for the reason for the censorship, it was because there's Steam policy in which there's shouldn't be any explicit sex content in regard of the VN and most VN company tried to adapt by censoring the H Scenes.

HOWEVER, what MoeNovel (Or rather I should say Pulltop) did is very different from what usual VN company did because all of those company still provide some way to have the reader read 18+ scenes, or if the developer was really afraid in regard of 18+ content translated then they could just use the console version for Steam release (Like the after mentioned Shuffle). And for this case, looks like Pulltop just did the same stunt like back at Konosora so I couldn't say that I look forward to Miagete very much here - the other reason was because the size was pretty big though lol. Also like ChaosRaven said, recently there's many surges of this type of VNs that was translated compared to back at 2013 and not to mention that many recent releases allow us to read H Scenes translated. So yeah, for now I think we could just treat this as one of released good moege.

tldr - Pulltop censorship policy might be annoying for some people, but in the end as customer nowadays we had many choice for this type of VN so ultimately it's just another VN. And if we want to see Pulltop VN uncensored, I think the only solution is have the fan translated the Pulltop's VN themselves like Koiresort.

PS - I think we shouldn't bashing MoeNovel harshly because I'm sure they didn't knew anything about overseas VN market and it could be come as ungrateful to them, but instead we should bash Pulltop HARD for making that decision in regard of censorship and more if we take into account that Pulltop did had experience release 18+ VN overseas with Princess Waltz, yet now they chose not back at Konosora.

Edited by littleshogun
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To be fair, Moenovel has improved from their IMHHW localization. They are no longer targeting 12 year-olds anymore. Their recent Love Kami games showed that there are targeting a 17+ age audience as shown in VNDB, LoveKami -Divinity Stage and LoveKami -Useless Goddess-. In addition, this game is also for 17+ age audience A Sky Full of Stars.

The only thing is that they have not announced H-scene patches for those games.

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On 11/20/2017 at 7:03 PM, Chuee said:

I'm pretty skeptical that Moenovel will ever release an 18+ version of anything they've done. Part of me wants to say it's due to that large translation company they're associated with, and they probably don't want to be associated with 18+ content. The release of Shuffle was very similar to all Moenovel releases, especially with regards to 18+ content (no release nor any mention of it), and we know how YumeHaven and Moenovel are connected. 

I'd argue that YumeHaven is worse than MoeNovel, because their release of Shuffle resulted in the removal from the market of an already existent 18+ English version.

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On 11/21/2017 at 5:48 AM, Decay said:

They did more than remove IMHHW's h-scenes. They removed anything even vaguely sexual in nature and in some instances even censored kissing scenes. These are alterations that were not made with LoveKami. Hence, they changed their censorship policies.

It seems possible that the only changes that will be made to Miagete Goran are the changes (almost) every other company makes when releasing eroge on Steam.

I remember they changed the translation of boobs to eyes

 

wtf :michiru:

Edited by Freestyle80
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Do you know why I don't like WillPlus games? (Pulltop includes)

The standard 1280x720, which I can't even crop!!!

I really don't understand, what creators of engine doing in 2017...

My screen resolution is 1366x768... Playing in 720 is really difficult to me...

 

The possibility of size of screen is really important for me. Why some companies can't understand that :(

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5 hours ago, Veshurik said:

Do you know why I don't like WillPlus games? (Pulltop includes)

The standard 1280x720, which I can't even crop!!!

I really don't understand, what creators of engine doing in 2017...

My screen resolution is 1366x768... Playing in 720 is really difficult to me...

 

The possibility of size of screen is really important for me. Why some companies can't understand that :(

I think WillPlus is just a publisher. They have nothing to do with the resolution of they're games, that's the developer's job.

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