Yume Miru Kusuri: Review + Nanjou Discussion

[FinalCloud]

Note: This will contain spoilers!

Firstly I have not completed all routes only Aeka, I might do Mizuki also at some point, the other girl (the random fairy chick) is so loli I am not interested (tbh Aeka was also a bit too loli for my liking, especially considering the amount of h-scenes, which I could not enjoy, so I skipped most of them). Why Aeka first? Cos I heard her route was the best, if I launched into the VN knowing nothing I would have gone with Mizuki first.

Ok so I was actually talking about this VN with another user in this thread:

 

I was surprised he was being critical of a VN which I had heard such good things about and was looking forward to trying.

And ironically I completely agree with the person I was speaking with @Okarin

Ok I only played Aeka route, but I found a number of things really annoying with this game.

1. He saves Aeka twice at just the right moment, yea right...

2. Her earlier sex scenes were so abrubt, just like Okarin said, I mean seriously, she is a virgin (and even if she wasnt really) and she offers herself to MC that easily, I get she is troubled, but really

3. The teachers are seriously ridiculous, I mean no1 does anything to stop the bullying. More on this later, as it ties into discussion on Nanjou

4. The real icing on the cake for insulting my intelligence was near the end "How did we not think of this sooner, lets transfer/drop out of school". SERIOUSLY???!!!!! I was thinking the whole time, this is freaking dumb, why cant they just move away or even just transfer class lol, I thought there must be some serious reason they are at that school which I was going to find out (altho I couldnt think what it might be, but hey that is the writers job)

There are probably more if I think about it, but this post is going to long enough as it is.

Anyway, onto Nanjou/Antoinette, so I was trying to figure out what her deal was, so I looked around, and found this theory which I will copy here:

By vargr1105 @VNDB

"Do you think that the "kid" on the picture might be Antoinette? (he is referencing smth from Mizukis route here I believe) Do you think she was banging her teacher and that is why he willfully ignored the abuse taking place right in front of him? Since she clearly wants to bang Kouhei even though she has a boyfriend, fucking her teacher doesn't seem something that would be out of line with her personality. When the teacher saw the mess she had turned into after Aeka and Kouhei nearly killed her he was so repelled he lost any sexual desire for her...he couldn't "use that anymore". But since he had still fucked her, the law of silence prevails and Antoinette doesn't have to leave school even after all that mess on the rooftop."

I guess that would atleast explain away point 3, do you guys think he is right? Or is it actually confirmed as true? Honestly I dont want to play all the routes to find out.

I also didnt get what her game (Nanjou's) was with Kouhei, did she like him? It seems quite hinted, however this doesnt make sense if we consider the bad ends in the Aeka route, surely if she (Aeka) was gone and Nanjou liked him she would not still be bullying him, and would have acted on her feelings?? Ok we might say that this is because she knows he has been with Aeka, but this cant be the case as she still tries to get Aeka to break up with Kouhei, and by this point she knows as much about their relationship as she does in the bad end.

Anyway enough ranting;

What are you guys thoughts on this?

PS: I am not saying the VN is terrible, but I am quite dissapointed by it. I didnt really find it emotionally moving in any way. Or particularly entertaining for that matter, and the only game whose ending credits I have been more relieved to see (albeit for a very different reason) is Starless (NEVER AGAIN!). Lack of other characters was another issue I had, actually an issue with alot of VN's to be fair.

Edited October 24, 2017 by FinalCloud

[Soulless Watcher]

Yume Miru Kusuri is definitely overrated, I did find Aeka route to be the most ridiculous. I understand that in Japan not making a fuss is part of the culture, train molestations run rampant when it should be a easily solved problem, but the amount of abuse that Aeka suffers is quite unbelievable. 

I honestly found the other two routes to be more enjoyable, with Mizuki being passable and Nekoko being pretty good.

[FinalCloud]

16 minutes ago, Soulless Watcher said:

Yume Miru Kusuri is definitely overrated, I did find Aeka route to be the most ridiculous. I understand that in Japan not making a fuss is part of the culture, train molestations run rampant when it should be a easily solved problem, but the amount of abuse that Aeka suffers is quite unbelievable. 

I honestly found the other two routes to be more enjoyable, with Mizuki being passable and Nekoko being pretty good.

I cant really call it overrated unless I play all the routes. But I just cannot get onboard with Nekoko looking like a 10 year old (especially given I know alot of H-Scenes are probably coming) and honestly I wish all the characters would look a bit more mature in this kind of story. It would atleast make it a bit less ridiculous, but that is eroge I guess. Altho the bullying thing did all feel a bit dumb to me anyway, I am in my mid 20s so maybe I am a bit old to take it seriously, idk (I dont feel like I would taken it more seriously as a 16 year old tho)

Idk about the train thing, I am English and our culture was (historically atleast) similar in not making a fuss, but it doesnt really happen on the tube (altho some people claim it does) while I am sure it happens in Japan, I can only guess it is hugely over exaggerated in anime/eroge etc (I have never been to Japan tho).

Edited October 24, 2017 by FinalCloud

[Soulless Watcher]

20 minutes ago, FinalCloud said:

Idk about the train thing, I am English and our culture was (historically atleast) similar in not making a fuss, but it doesnt really happen on the tube (altho some people claim it does) while I am sure it happens in Japan, I can only guess it is hugely over exaggerated in anime/eroge etc (I have never been to Japan tho).

Oddly enough that seems to be one of the few things that are not hugely exaggerated by anime/eroge. According to a BBC News article two Japanese high schools were polled and 70% of female students claimed to be sexually harassed. Granted it was nearly a decade ago, perhaps they have managed to rectify the issue somewhat by now. 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Soulless Watcher

[Beichuuka]

If you look around Twitter for issues regarding gender equality and whatnot, you occasionally see claims being thrown around that of a class of girls who use the train, every single one, at some point or another, experience harassment.

Unsubstantiated claims, but it does give you an idea as to just how rampant it might be.

*I have not played the game and have no idea what the level of harassment depicted in the game might be.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Beichuuka

[Okarin]

If you want one little more advice, don't play Mizuki's... it will make you angry.

Maybe you should move on to another VN?

[FinalCloud]

7 hours ago, Beichuuka said:

If you look around Twitter for issues regarding gender equality and whatnot, you occasionally see claims being thrown around that of a class of girls who use the train, every single one, at some point or another, experience harassment.

Unsubstantiated claims, but it does give you an idea as to just how rampant it might be.

*I have not played the game and have no idea what the level of harassment depicted in the game might be.

Heh, to be honest in Aekas route there isnt really much sexual harrasment it is:

Spoiler

Mostly bullying from girls in the form of emotional and physical damage, the only harrasment from men really is that the girls that bully her try to get her raped by a man

I am not too sure why the main point of discussion ended up being on harrasment, wasnt my intent -.-. The things I wanted to discuss was the points RE Nanjou and if others agreed with the issues I had with the game.

 

1 hour ago, Okarin said:

If you want one little more advice, don't play Mizuki's... it will make you angry.

Maybe you should move on to another VN?

Hehe, while I should have listened to you in the first place before, I might as well ask, why wlill it make me angry?

Edited October 24, 2017 by FinalCloud

[Okarin]

About Mizuki, if you really wanna know...

...trust me, she's a crazy girl who frequently puts Kouhei in dangerous situations. I found her really not likeable, though the narrative here is "to love the girl despite her problems" I guess.

[Silvz]

Spoiler, I guess, but if you don't want to read the H scenes, you should skip Mizuki's route completely.

I agree that you should move to another VN. Everything you said is there in the other routes and in many VNs that deal with these subjects. Unfortunately, most of the otaku stuff, such as eroge, have child-like characters, but being Yume Miru so focused on sex, it may really not be your cup of tea.

And as for harassment, I suggest you take a look into actual numbers and news about it. I don't know how it is handled in England, but it IS a huge issue in many countries, and usually what happens is exactly like in the game: the victim is usually the one who takes the blame, and in many cases nothing is done at all to avoid complications to the institution.

[FinalCloud]

I did start Mizuki's route and The sex scenes in Mizukis route didnt really bother me as she doesnt look underage (once again what bothered me was that it was ridiculously easy to take her sleep with her + take her virginity, High Mizuki > High Protag of an Eroge I met u b4 one time a while ago > Mizuki: Wanna help me in student council? > Help her in student council a few times > Mizuki: Oh, I have nothing to offer u as thanks for your help: Oh I know, here is my body + as a bonus also my virginity.  I mean I guess it was amusingly ridiculous but still wth.

But yea, it was boring, so I am dropping the game, if I am honest Okarin's description there made it sound kind of interesting lol, but it just seemed like endless sex scenes with no character development or plot really.

RE Harrasment:

I am not disputing that it is a massive issue, I have seen the predatory behavior in nightclubs (I personally find it pathetic, that said, these guys probably get more action -.-, sadly), been out to a nightclub with just myself and 3 girls and had a group of 3 guys come over to me and tell them to ditch me (they told him to go away, I stopped the girls saying anymore as I didnt fancy getting beaten up lol). As for in England, well, I tend to avoid looking into too much stuff like that, I find it depressing, but I have seen something about harassment in the workplace recently, a few things about human trafficking on the rise, and there has been a lot of stuff about child abuse recently, mostly historic and people that were in positions of power, quite sickening (probably why they were looking to ban loli hentai a while ago in the UK). Train molesting itself isnt really a major issue here as far as I am aware, none of my female friends have mentioned it, I think some women have complained about it. But harassment in general I am sure is as much of an issue here as anywhere.

Plus RE this game, sexual harassment is not really even that much of an issue in it (unless it occurs later in Mizukis route or the loli chicks route), I am not sure why everyone focused on it -.-. Maybe I should just not answer to things sometimes (altho I do not like doing that)

PS. I guess I should give up on anyone mentioning the Nanjou theory -.-

Edited October 26, 2017 by FinalCloud

[Okarin]

This is a game that's about real-life problems, but addressed in a pretty shallow way, most of the time. I don't think much of the writing.

I believe each route's problem was portrayed in the intro: Aeka - Bullying, Mizuki - "Interpersonal", Nekoko - Drugs. So you have a bare knowledge of what to expect.

The sex... is prominent here, at least in Mizuki's case it's kinda justified [as she's pretty mental].

I'm surprised Yume Miru Kusuri had all the popularity it had, because it certainly isn't what people want to read most of the time.

Also, to expect character development in a 3-heroine, 30-hour game isn't very realistic. Though it probably can be done better.

[FinalCloud]

3 hours ago, Okarin said:

This is a game that's about real-life problems, but addressed in a pretty shallow way, most of the time. I don't think much of the writing.

I believe each route's problem was portrayed in the intro: Aeka - Bullying, Mizuki - "Interpersonal", Nekoko - Drugs. So you have a bare knowledge of what to expect.

The sex... is prominent here, at least in Mizuki's case it's kinda justified [as she's pretty mental].

I'm surprised Yume Miru Kusuri had all the popularity it had, because it certainly isn't what people want to read most of the time.

Also, to expect character development in a 3-heroine, 30-hour game isn't very realistic. Though it probably can be done better.

Well, I mean can anyone really take a lolicon drug addict seriously lol?

I agree with what you say except the last point.

I expect character development in a 24 episode anime season, assuming 20 mins per episode of an anime that equates to:

(24 * 20) / 60 = 8 Hours

Or Death Note as an example:

(36 * 20) / 60 = 12 Hours

I appreciate they are a different medium, but I would therefore expect character development in 10 hours of gameplay. 

I think the time your average VN uses describing emotions/feelings/scenes probably equates to the amount of time a standard anime spends on filler/action sequences.

Edited October 26, 2017 by FinalCloud

[Okarin]

They are different mediums, anime tends to have less chaff than your average VN, but without the chaff, the VN feels rushed.

VNs drag on because you have to read, and stop to enjoy the animations, or the voice acting, or the CG, it's a slower process than anime.

I used to think only long VNs, 50+ hours, could achieve something really great. So I stand by that point.

About the "lolicon drug addict", if you overlook all the crazy sex [that, ultimately, is justified by the story, unlike the other cases], you have a pretty good story about escapism and its consequences. Though actually I tend to read VNs whole, so I couldn't exactly leave her out, or Mizuki, for that case.

[Kenshin_sama]

4 hours ago, Okarin said:

I'm surprised Yume Miru Kusuri had all the popularity it had, because it certainly isn't what people want to read most of the time.

I knew a couple casual VN readers who picked it up mainly because it's uncensored, and they seemed to like the story a lot too. I haven't read this one personally, but it might be safe to say that's the main selling point, lol.

[Okarin]

It could go either way, but you really need to be in the mood for reading about screwed up people.

[FinalCloud]

I was in the mood for reading about people with some life issues, but not if it was executed in that way lol

Meh, if i am in the mood for limited plot and loads of sex scenes I may force myself through Mitsukis route some day, will have to be very bored tho

Edited October 26, 2017 by FinalCloud