True Routes...

[Naoe]

Alright, I'm starting this topic, because I want to know what people think about a true route in visual novels.

Do you think it makes the other routes pointless? or do you think it doesn't matter?

Edited October 9, 2017 by Naoe

[pik3rob]

I prefer True Routes. They don't make the other routes pointless at all in my opinion. They just provide closure for the VN. Proper closure is very important to me, since just ending after all the routes are cleared is very anticlimactic, and can sometimes feel that the VN as a whole didn't lead to anything specific since there's so many different endings and neither of them are any more important than the others.

[Akshay]

Depends on the VN. A lot of the time the true route is only unlocked after finishing the other routes. 

Playing the other routes give different insights and allows different interpretations of the same events. Also several VN's branch out significantly during the routes and therefore the story for each character is very different. Further, important information such as back stories may be revealed. And all this information may be necessary to appreciate the true route.

For example, in 9 hrs 9 persons 9 doors, the true ending would not make any sense if you haven't cleared the safe ending. (I'm using this as an example because I just cleared the VN).

Even in VN's where the other routes may not be necessary, in rom/slice-of-lifey VN's we may find ourselves more attracted to a heroine not covered by the true-route. For example, in Kira Kira, neither Chie's nor Serena's route were truly necessary to enjoy the true route however they are still route's I enjoyed.

Ultimately, the purpose of different routes is to create a scenario with multiple possible endings and it is perhaps best enjoyed when you select your favorite ending as your interpretation/conclusion of it.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Akshay

[alden_0023]

True routes are mostly there to tie up loose ends of the VNs. And they are good story telling tools that can create the connection between the heroine routes, gives explanations on these connections, and create new perspective on the story and the characters.

Some examples come to mind.

In the case of Rewrite, the Moon and Terra routes are meant to connect all that happened on the previous routes and make sense of them. In that sense, these routes makes sense in the grand scheme of things.

And I still think the true route is the best route on Da Capo 2. Not only did it clarifies a lot of what has actually happened on the series, it gives a new perspective on Sakura. And it paved the way for the sequel as well.

I wouldn't say that this makes the other routes pointless. The true end wouldn't mean as much if you hadn't encountered the characters on their routes and make a connection to them, and if you hadn't familiarized yourself with the setting of the VN.

Individual routes creates the connection and gives each heroine a time to shine, as well as a personality and a background story that you just can't get when you only see the true route.
 

[Guest]

I don't believe in "True Routes", for me, "True" just equals "Final" , so it's a route I should play last, I believe that if a Visual Novel or a Game gives me a possibility to reach a ending, all of them are Canon in my mind. I agree with the already mentioned 999 example, since to understand the full plot you need to get all endings, and getting the "True" end last makes the big revelations way more enjoyable, the same happens with Virtue's Last Reward and even non-MRM VNs like Togainu no Chi. (NOTE= MRM: Multiple Route Mystery)

Edited October 9, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

I actually made a post like this a long time ago, just in case you're curious.

[Clephas]

There are a lot of different approaches to 'true' routes.  I generally split them into four types.

1- The 'all other heroines are irrelevant so lets fuck their path over' type seen in Eustia and G-senjou no Maou.  While the true paths of these VNs are often quite excellent, for some reason the side-heroines are always better than the 'true' ones, lol.  The premier sign of this type of VN is a 'ladder-style' story structure.

2- The 'all routes are true because it is a loop' structure.  There are many examples of this one, but I'm going to avoid naming names, because it is always a spoiler to do so.

3- The 'we randomly decided one of the heroines was the true heroine, so we made her path only unlockable after playing all the others'.  This one is perhaps the most common true-route VN.  It is also the one that probably causes all this controversy, since the heroines are generally treated equally in all ways except that one of the heroines has slightly more emphasis on her path.  Sometimes, this type of VN works out just fine, when the 'true' heroine in question is just that much better as a true heroine than the others would be (Bullet Butlers, Ayakashibito, Evolimit, Hapymaher etc), other times it is frighteningly bad...

4- The 'Grand Route' VN, where the true route is not stuck to a particular heroine but actually encompasses all of them, regardless of sexual relations or romantic issues.  Most of the best 'true path' VNs are of this type.  Some rather obvious examples are Vermilion Bind of Blood, Bradyon Veda, Silverio Trinity,  Komorebi no Nostalgica. 

However, one thing that should be noted, in light of my personal experiences... about 75% of all the best VNs I've read are true path VNs.  A lot of this is because of the passion of the writers, artists, and producers put behind such paths (which is why they probably ended up as true paths in the first place), but at least some of this is because, by picking a canon path, they often actually succeed in bringing a conclusion to the story as a whole, as opposed to merely resolving a single heroine's personal difficulties. 

 

[Nandemonai]

So how would you classify the true route of Steins;Gate, then?  It doesn't seem to easily fit into any of the four types.  #1 is the closest, except that those endings can't really even be called "routes" except for two characters, and the true route focuses more on Okabe than on any of the girls, in a way.

True routes can be good, they can be bad.  In a game that's highly plot driven, a true ending is kind of a must, I think.  Both because sequels are really difficult without one, and because it just makes the story work better, usually.  But in a game like Princess Evangile, having there be a "true route" would be even more annoying than Konomi-sama and Ruriko-chan not having routes.

[Beichuuka]

Haven't played Steins;Gate myself, but doesn't that one fall under the ladder structure?

[ChaosRaven]

As long as I like the individual heroine routes I don't really care about a 'true' route.

However, in general I think that a true route only makes sense in an actual story VN. And those are more the exception than the rule. The majority of VN's are more character focused moeges like Princess Evangile & Co with a plot that fits on a pencil tip and you certainly don't need a true route for those.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of true routes since it automatically implies that the writers did spend less effort into the actual heroine routes. IMHO Fate/Stay Night has still the most perfect route structure, because each route is long, rich and satisfying and shows you different aspects and developments, but each route in itself also feels complete.

I still appreciate a good true route if it brings something new and interesting to the table. But those are mostly from mystery VN's where you figure out the master mind or other hidden secrets. But I have a particular dislike for over-dramatized whining true routes with little substance often found in nakiges or utsuges. And I tend to just skip them these days if it isn't dedicated to a particular interesting heroine.

[onorub]

One thing that i'm wondering now: if the VN industry starts going towards individually paid routes, how would that affect true routes? Would they simply cost more or be done with entirely?

[Nandemonai]

14 hours ago, Beichuuka said:

Haven't played Steins;Gate myself, but doesn't that one fall under the ladder structure?

Maybe that word doesn't mean what I think it means.  Just to make sure, what exactly is a ladder route structure?

[Clephas]

1 hour ago, Nandemonai said:

Maybe that word doesn't mean what I think it means.  Just to make sure, what exactly is a ladder route structure?

You proceed along the common route, you get a choice at the end of an arc between proceeding down one heroine's path or continuing with the main story.  If you pick the heroine, you end up on that heroine's path, cutting the main story short.  This continues until all that is left is to go down the main path to the last ending.  G-Senjou no Maou, Aiyoku no Eustia, Leyline, Amatsutsumi, and Sen no Hatou all use this type of structure.

Edit: the reason it is called 'ladder-style' is because you can consider choosing the non-true heroine paths along the way to be 'getting off the ladder' and staying on the main route as going to the top. 

Edit2: This is probably the most flawed true-route structure, because it essentially screws all the heroines except the true one over.  This is particularly bad in the case of Eustia, where all the paths except the true one (Eustia's) are essentially impossible within the setting.   Sen no Hatou was just as bad, that way... but then, August has always sucked at true routes anyway. 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Clephas

[ChaosRaven]

I consider the follow-up route structure where each route builds up on the last one the weakest one, since the routes aren't complete in itself anymore. It still kinda works in ChuSingura where the routes at least have a rather equal quality (independent from individual likes or dislikes) and a half decent closure, but it's the worst in Dies Irae where the early routes are just poor stepping stones to the grander routes later. If a writer wants to write a kinetic VN then he should just do that and not try to force it into individual heroine routes.

And it's especially problematic if you need knowledge from a former route to understand a latter one since the protagonist usually shouldn't have that knowledge and that causes a rift between the reader and the protagonist. Though at least that's not a problem in ChuSigura since the protagonist keeps the knowledge from the previous routes.

[Nandemonai]

Yeah, that was one of the things I didn't really like about Tokyo Babel.  (I liked the game quite a bit, but it definitely had some issues.)  Its route structure was horrible.  Basically, the game has a clear intended route reading order - Raziel -> Sorami -> Lilith - but it doesn't actually force you to read Raziel's path before Sorami's.  (It does lock Lilith's for last.)  And it does that thing ChaosRaven complained about, where routes will just gloss over stuff that was the focus of previous routes.

I'm not actually opposed to using routes in that way, because it is something a VN can do: it uses the interactivity to change the story in a way that a book can't.

But in Tokyo Babel, the characters just know stuff that was mentioned in previous routes sometimes.  They gloss over stuff they really shouldn't.  It doesn't feel right.

[littleshogun]

As for ladder style ending here, arguably Subahibi could count here because while you want to keep going to the true ending, there's also a chance to get alternative endings in which all of those ending were not quite bad from what I gather.

As for my opinion, well it didn't matter much to me here because after all to enjoy the VN I think we should enjoy all of the routes, especially when one of the requirement of true end was finished all of the routes. But I wouldn't deny though in some case the VN with true route was had less interesting character routes, and of course the writing effort goes to the true route there.

Edited October 11, 2017 by littleshogun

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Clephas said:

You proceed along the common route, you get a choice at the end of an arc between proceeding down one heroine's path or continuing with the main story.  If you pick the heroine, you end up on that heroine's path, cutting the main story short.  This continues until all that is left is to go down the main path to the last ending.  G-Senjou no Maou, Aiyoku no Eustia, Leyline, Amatsutsumi, and Sen no Hatou all use this type of structure.

Edit: the reason it is called 'ladder-style' is because you can consider choosing the non-true heroine paths along the way to be 'getting off the ladder' and staying on the main route as going to the top. 

Edit2: This is probably the most flawed true-route structure, because it essentially screws all the heroines except the true one over.  This is particularly bad in the case of Eustia, where all the paths except the true one (Eustia's) are essentially impossible within the setting.   Sen no Hatou was just as bad, that way... but then, August has always sucked at true routes anyway. 

This kinda reminds me of Sweet Pool, since Zenya's and Makoto's branches from the common route...

[Dreamysyu]

Well, if we are completely honest here, a 'classical' route system isn't that good at making consistent stories. In general, a VN with multiple routes is just a collection of different what-if scenarios with a same cast of characters, and in many cases these scenarios could easily be separated into different stories. This format works well for usual charage/moege, but if you want to create a story with some kind of an overarching plot, you will almost definitely need to enforce playing order in some way (at least partially). The main problem here is that in many stories (especially in something with an element of mystery) it matters in which order you see different plot points. True routes, in general, are a nice way to give some conclusion to a story and make it feel complete.

Or, in case of ladder-style stories, it's usually the only way to include h-scenes with different heroines to a story that originally should be linear. Though, I believe, it's still can be a good way to give an additional depth to a story, and though I still haven't read the original VN for Stens;Gate, I think it may actually do this right.

Edit. Also, I hate it when a route is, basically, only stated to be true, but isn't different from the other routes in any other way.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Dreamysyu

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

 

Edit. Also, I hate it when a route is, basically, only stated to be true, but isn't different from the other routes in any other way.

A lot of people think that just because a route is unlockable, it's automatically "True" (specially if it's the last route), but, in the end the route its just unlockable for the sake of it or for other reasons.

[Kirashi]

For starter, if we allow to call those routes 'true', doesn't that mean something is off with all others routes? (true/wrong route) From the start, the only point with the tue route is revealing secrets/information and cloture the game somehow etc. The main point with all others routes is just to add porn with your best favorite/buy times for a longer VN experience/add some mystery that you'll follow in the last route.

For example, once you play Hatsuyuki Sakura's true end, you start to understand how all previous routes were pointless no matter you look at it, and it's not the only vn like this, I hated that.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Kirashi

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Kirashi said:

For starter, if we allow to call those routes 'true', doesn't that mean something is off with all others routes? (true/wrong route) From the start, the only point with the true route is revealing secrets/information and cloture the game somehow etc. The main point with all others routes is just to add porn with your best favorite/buy times for a longer VN experience/add some mystery that you'll follow in the last route.

For example, once you play Hatsuyuki's Sakura true end, you start to understand how all previous routes were pointless no matter you look at it, and it's not the only vn like this, I hated that.

I think the word "True" is really ambiguous, like do you mean True in the sense that the others are false? Do you mean in the sense that it's unlockable? Do you mean in the sense that it reveals lots of info so it's "True" in the sense that it reveals the true story? Do you mean True in the sense of "last"? Do you mean in the Canonical sense?

'cause with we consider Vns that deal if time travel and multiple realities, having the word "True" in one of the endings feels very paradoxal, since the game itself believes in it's multiple continuities.

[Nandemonai]

Well, in games that got a sequel, very often a route is the "true" route because it's the canonical route that the writers used to base the sequel off of.  Very few games try the Majikoi S way of "here's multiple starting points, which ending are we going off of here?"

That's actually a case where true endings are sort of unavoidable.  Sequels kind of have to pick one and run with it.  Trying to pull an Elder Scrolls and saying "yeah, all the endings happened. Don't ask too many questions" doesn't really work for a story-heavy thing like a VN.

[Dreamysyu]

11 hours ago, SeniorBlitz said:

A lot of people think that just because a route is unlockable, it's automatically "True" (specially if it's the last route), but, in the end the route its just unlockable for the sake of it or for other reasons.

It's true. Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime are good examples. Though I'm not exactly sure why you quoted that part of my post.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Dreamysyu said:

It's true. Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime are good examples. Though I'm not exactly sure why you quoted that part of my post.

I was just going to comment, I accidentatly quoted you without realizing xoD

[Ranzo]

Not in the least there were many times where one characters route seemed to stand above all the others which includes the true route

Take Clannad for example I like Kyou, Tomoyo and hell even Kotomi's route much more than After Story 

 

Okay so I know the true route is often times the one you unlock but can it also be the route the main girl is on as well?