Jump to content

Enemy Heroine and Protaganist Romance


FinalCloud

Recommended Posts

The series Funbag/Kyonyuu series does indeed have a good plot to it from political intrigue to character arcs even for side characters. As the series goes on it even does pretty well at world building: the upcoming sequel better establishes the AU Europe setting, the second numbered game in the series (and its remake) give us a look at that universe's version of Britain, and the third numbered game and its upcoming remake create an interesting alternate history take on ancient Rome and how at least the Greek/Roman pantheon of deities fits into the world.

The series handling of routes though is different from your typical VN though. The canon ending is the harem route, Roxanne and Luceria really only have endings as opposed to routes, though what amounts to Isis and Shamsiel's route paths are more an alternate storyline that I would recommend reading as it provides some interesting background and lore. The character arcs are usually divided into chapters for the main story, even moreso in future games.

As for the ero content, yes there is a  good deal but its generally well balanced with the plot (it does get a little ero heavy when the focus turns to Luceria but there is a story reason that kind of justifies it). The haremfest content is mainly epilogue content after the game's story is for all intents and purposes finished.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FinalCloud said:

RE Funbag/Kyonyuu it sounds like it may meet the requirement and be ok, but as it is clearly a nukige, does it have a decent plot? And is there actually routes for each heroine with a genuine romantic plot, or is it just a massive haremfest for the MC? (Notice the tag Engages in: Polygamy for the main char) with sex scenes every 5 mins.

Funbag is like Berserk.  They both belong to a genre that typically has a strong draw other than plot.   Things in Berserk's ultraviolent genre include truly awful stuff like Apocalypse Zero.  And in the nukige realm we have games where the "plot" is something like "All these monster girls are into the main character because... umm... His semen contains hyper-concentrated magical energy!"

Most entries in those genres don't bother, because they know a strong plot and characters aren't the reason people buy these.  So they'll still do well even with terrible writing.  But Funbag and Berserk do.  I have played non-H RPGs with worse characters and worldbuilding than Funbag Fantasy.  And yes, I'm serious.  Yes, there's gobs and gobs of h-scenes, but the plot actually is written well enough to justify why they're there.

To answer your other question (harem versus routes): It's not an either-or.   The game basically does both.  There are individual character routes, which focus on a single character and are romantic.   The harem stuff comes basically as an epilogue to the true route (which is canon and is what the sequels are based off of).  And it even makes sense in-story!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok you guys mostly have me convinced, will add it to my list, I think I may have come across it before but not given it any thought as it was titled Funbag Fantasy lol.

Tho I am not the biggest fan of harem-style fuckfests which I presume it will on some level, end up as. Is the protaganist a decent person? Not a huge fan of the arrogant, hyper perv harem protagonist

Edited by FinalCloud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, FinalCloud said:

Ok you guys mostly have me convinced, will add it to my list, I think I may have come across it before but not given it any thought as it was titled Funbag Fantasy lol.

Tho I am not the biggest fan of harem-style fuckfests which I presume it will on some level, end up as. Is the protaganist a decent person? Not a huge fan of the arrogant, hyper perv harem protagonist

Funbag Fantasy is actually a pretty solid game. It's the best proof I know of that a game can be a nukige without being just a nukige.

Also, I know it was already called out, but Koihime Musou is pretty darn good, and has a lot of heroines who fit the request, so I thought maybe I should bring it up again in case it got buried earlier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea I think I breezed past Koihime Musou because it is already on my list. I considered it pretty low priority tho as it looked to me like It is probably another game where Harem = Kanon

Are there actual routes in Musou for the heroines where you end up with one of them? I am not a lover of a protagonist sleeping with every women he meets in a game -.-, dont like my heroines to sleep around, therefore hero shouldnt either =/. If harem is one route, I dont mind, if there is just some casual sex along the way before any serious romance forms, I dont mind.

Edited by FinalCloud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FinalCloud said:

 Is the protaganist a decent person? Not a huge fan of the arrogant, hyper perv harem protagonist

Pretty much, while Lute is a bit of a perv that isn't his only defining character trait, for instance one thing that surprises alot of the characters as they get to know him is how he doesn't hold grudges and is willing to work with them for the greater good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, FinalCloud said:

Yea I think I breezed past Koihime Musou because it is already on my list. I considered it pretty low priority tho as it looked to me like It is probably another game where Harem = Kanon

Are there actual routes in Musou for the heroines where you end up with one of them? I am not a lover of a protagonist sleeping with every women he meets in a game -.-, dont like my heroines to sleep around, therefore hero shouldnt either =/. If harem is one route, I dont mind, if there is just some casual sex along the way before any serious romance forms, I dont mind.

Technically yes, but those routes basically suck.  There's 3 "main girls", and they each have an ending.  But the real ending is the harem ending, which you must unlock by getting all 3 of the normal endings.

The lead is basically an emperor in ancient China (it's an isekai game).  He basically has multiple wives (though I don't the game actually claims you're technically married).  There is no casual sex before serious romance forms.  He's in a serious romance with, uh, almost (but not quite) everybody.

I highly recommend the game, because it's kickass from start to finish.  But if that bugs you, it might not be the game for you.

Edited by Nandemonai
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Nandemonai said:

He's in a serious romance with, uh, almost (but not quite) everybody.

I wouldn't say that. The only girl he's really seriously involved with almost from start is Aisha. Pretty much all other girls are optional and can be avoided.

Though Renfa and Karin had one unavoidable H-scene if I remember right.

Edit: It's true for Moeshouden and Eiyuutan though, which is a major reason I don't like those two fan discs too much. :amane:

Edited by ChaosRaven
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd forgotten about those two unavoidable h-scenes.  But we're both right.  I'll explain a bit more.

KM has a system where the main story periodically takes a breather for side events.  You can pick who you want to see the side events with, but you have a limited number of slots per free time block.  As characters join you, they'll become available to spend time with.  Each character has a set sequence of side events, and they're written so they could take place - mostly - anywhere in the story.  (It can get a little weird doing really early events for characters that join in the beginning, towards the end of the game.  Otherwise, it mostly works.)

There are only a few h-scenes outside of this.  Two that relate to spoilers, and one for Aisha that serves as a tiebreaker.  Which ending you have available is determined by which of the 3 main girls you've seen all the events for.  If you meet none of the criteria, the game defaults to Aisha.

At no point during the story (except for the aforementioned spoiler main-story events) does the main character sleep with anyone he's not already in a romantic relationship with.  So anyone he's sleeping with, he has a serious romantic relationship with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Nandemonai said:

Technically yes, but those routes basically suck.  There's 3 "main girls", and they each have an ending.  But the real ending is the harem ending, which you must unlock by getting all 3 of the normal endings.

The lead is basically an emperor in ancient China (it's an isekai game).  He basically has multiple wives (though I don't the game actually claims you're technically married).  There is no casual sex before serious romance forms.  He's in a serious romance with, uh, almost (but not quite) everybody.

I highly recommend the game, because it's kickass from start to finish.  But if that bugs you, it might not be the game for you.

You say he has multiple wives (I assume from the start of the game?). But from what @ChaosRaven said, Aisha is the only one of these pre-existing wives that features in the game? (Assuming I am right in thinking Aisha is one of these wives).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, FinalCloud said:

You say he has multiple wives (I assume from the start of the game?). But from what @ChaosRaven said, Aisha is the only one of these pre-existing wives that features in the game? (Assuming I am right in thinking Aisha is one of these wives).

There's no official marriage in the VN. Aisha is just the first girl he meets and the first one he gets into a romantic relationship with. The main route is very clear about that, while the relationship to the other heroines isn't as clearly defined by the main route. It's just clear that they all like him and get his loyal subordinates. Their undeniable close relationships can then be interpreted either in a romantic or platonic way. And depending on if you play their routes it will either be the former or the latter.

Edited by ChaosRaven
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, well best frame of reference I can come up with is harem anime where there is one clear winner in terms of the girls that has the most romantic development (and that it feels like the show is angling for), but alot of other girls also like the MC. E.g. Highschool DXD Rias. Madan no Ou to Vanadis Elen. Rosario + Vampire Moka etc etc... (I think they are even all the girl the MC meets first in the show lol). Is Aisha essentially one of those "winner" girls, but where instead of just hugs and breasts pressed in his face by the other girls they are actually sleeping with him (which makes the whole thing not funny really, but harsh).

I will probably just see how it is, sometimes I try and find out too much to see if a VN will annoy me. From what you guys have said there might be some bits I dont like, but you cant really tell me for sure if I will like it or not, so I should really just give it a go

Edited by FinalCloud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/2/2017 at 1:47 PM, FinalCloud said:

Hi

There is also Mitsuki's route in Princess Evangile W Happiness. That heroine was against the Protagonist at first, but at the end of the common route and during her route, she starts to develop romantic feelings for him.

W Happiness is the fandisc of the original game, Princess Evangile. Mitsuki was only a side character in the original game, but in the fandisc, W Happiness, she has her own route.

W Happiness contains 13 Chapters of the common route from the original game. Technically, there is 16 chapter, but chapters 14-16 are not needed because Mitsuki's route, as well as the other new heroines' routes, start after Chapter 13. In other words, if you just want to play Mitsuki's route and the new heroines' routes you can just buy W Happiness.

Also both games Princess Evangile and Princess Evangile W Happiness are available on Steam.

Edited by Kaito1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yumiko in Grisaia no Kajitsu is the only one that comes to mind for me. She even repeatedly attacks the protagonist with a box cutter early on (as well as the other students when they push her buttons too much). Game itself describes her as a Kuudere though.

She's dateable if you manage to not flag any other route.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, r0xm2n said:

Yumiko in Grisaia no Kajitsu is the only one that comes to mind for me. She even repeatedly attacks the protagonist with a box cutter early on (as well as the other students when they push her buttons too much). Game itself describes her as a Kuudere though.

She's dateable if you manage to not flag any other route.

Hey, yea I recall her being a bit crazy in the anime! Not sure I would say she was an enemy tho, just a bit troubled =/

4 hours ago, Kaito1 said:

There is also Mitsuki's route in Princess Evangile W Happiness. That heroine was against the Protagonist at first, but at the end of the common route and during her route, she starts to develop romantic feelings for him.

W Happiness is the fandisc of the original game, Princess Evangile. Mitsuki was only a side character in the original game, but in the fandisc, W Happiness, she has her own route.

W Happiness contains 13 Chapters of the common route from the original game. Technically, there is 16 chapter, but chapters 14-16 are not needed because Mitsuki's route, as well as the other new heroines' routes, start after Chapter 13. In other words, if you just want to play Mitsuki's route and the new heroines' routes you can just buy W Happiness.

Also both games Princess Evangile and Princess Evangile W Happiness are available on Steam.

Yea, started playing Princess Evangile, I didnt mind it and will go back to it, but I am not the biggest lover of that moe art style. Prefer the art style of say, Tsujidou-san no Jun'ai Road or Majikoi. From what I saw Mitsuki would fit indeed!

Edited by FinalCloud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, FinalCloud said:

From what I saw Mitsuki would fit indeed!

You should definitely play it! She really goes through a lot of character development in her route. It's very surprising to see how much she has changed from being against the protagonist and doing wrong things to him to becoming lovers with him.

Edited by Kaito1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/3/2017 at 5:36 PM, littleshogun said:

Well I did want to recommend Umineko, but since you said that romance should be the main focus then I'll just change it to rival, and some of then also could be antagonistic to the MC at the beginning. As for the VNs with rival here, for now I could recommend Koiken Otome (Yves's route), Koichoco (Satsuki's route), and Wagahigh (Ashe's route). If you want to wait a while longer, then there's Little Busters (Sasami's route) and Tsujidou (Renna's route) in which both of those were still in Japanese although Little Busters would be released at November later. Hope my recommendations here help.

Sorry to bump this again. Did you get the right heroine for Little Busters? I actually see the Mayadere tag for Saya, so are both Sasami and Saya viable for this recommendation? Also do you recommend the game? I do like Clannad, Kanon and Air, I did not like Angel Beats. Does LB compare to them? I thought it looked a bit more kiddy, put me off.

Edited by FinalCloud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FinalCloud said:

Sorry to bump this again. Did you get the right heroine for Little Busters? I actually see the Mayadere tag for Saya, so are both Sasami and Saya viable for this recommendation? Also do you recommend the game? I do like Clannad, Kanon and Air, I did not like Angel Beats. Does LB compare to them? I thought it looked a bit more kiddy, put me off.

For all intents and purposes, Sasasegawa Sasami, Futaki and Saya oppose the protagonist in some way. Sasasegawa Sasami is more in a childish, tsundere-ish sort of way. Futaki is more of a real opponent, but I don't know what happens in her route or how much opposition there is, if any at all.
Saya is more of a mystery, as she is a new character altogether I know nothing about, so it makes as much sense as anything else that she'd be an antagonist.

 

Edit: This game is... similar to both? Clannad and Angel Beats aren't that dissimilar so...
Little Busters! can be a bit childish, yes, but mostly in an innocent, kid way. It's mostly about friends having fun together, honestly, though its true route tackles some serious matters, and all individual routes are likely to get you somewhat emotional.

Finally, I should mention that all three routes with the heroines you might like require completing every other route as well as the true ending before they're unlocked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is what people seem to say, I watched Clannad , loved it, saw Angel beats recommended, watched it, found it quite "meh". Honestly I didnt get any feels from Angel Beats, I really didnt get why it got so much praise personally. Yea there were some sad moments, but nothing got me in the same way as Clannad, maybe it was the length of Angel Beats, or maybe even the kind of mood I was in when I watched it.

Clannad and Angel Beats Spoilers Below:

Spoiler

Nagisa's and Tomoya's struggles through Clannad and AS, coupled with the heartwarming moments just made After Story so powerful. I mean I am currently playing the Clannad VN for Tomoyo's route, and I am having a lot of trouble forcing myself not to do Nagisa's route cos she is just adorable lol.

With Angel Beats I just, didnt feel it. The only bit in Angel Beats that moved me at all was the scene with Yui (and that is because it was quite a well executed scene imo)

The whole dynamic with the students in Angel Beats all just felt very forced to me, I liked some of the bits like the eventual connection with Angel etc, but still felt that the actual time the protaganist spent with these characters didnt really justify too much of a reaction, and that my investment in them was not such that I would be particularly moved myself either.  Take the bit with the sister of the protaganist for example, it just felt like it was thrown into 1 episode to try and pull a reaction from the audience, not enough character investment if you want a reaction from me, sry, hey it was a bit sad, but thats all.

Sorry. Diversion....

 

29 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

Finally, I should mention that all three routes with the heroines you might like require completing every other route as well as the true ending before they're unlocked.

Sounds like quite a lot of time there lol. So I guess the important question is, is the game good and worth that time? Maybe it makes it hard for you to answer that as I didnt like Angel Beats but loved Clannad -.- (which a lot of people seem to think makes no sense). If it helps it was After Story that really made Clannad so good for me, on MAL I think I rated Angel Beats 6 (5.5 if I could), Clannad 8 (7.5 if I could) and Clannad AS 9.

Edited by FinalCloud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, FinalCloud said:

That is what people seem to say, I watched Clannad , loved it, saw Angel beats recommended, watched it, found it quite "meh". Honestly I didnt get any feels from Angel Beats, I really didnt get why it got so much praise personally. Yea there were some sad moments, but nothing got me in the same way as Clannad, maybe it was the length of Angel Beats, or maybe even the kind of mood I was in when I watched it.

Clannad and Angel Beats Spoilers Below:

  Hide contents

Nagisa's and Tomoya's struggles through Clannad and AS, coupled with the heartwarming moments just made After Story so powerful. I mean I am currently playing the Clannad VN for Tomoyo's route, and I am having a lot of trouble forcing myself not to do Nagisa's route cos she is just adorable lol.

With Angel Beats I just, didnt feel it. The only bit in Angel Beats that moved me at all was the scene with Yui (and that is because it was quite a well executed scene imo)

The whole dynamic with the students in Angel Beats all just felt very forced to me, I liked some of the bits like the eventual connection with Angel etc, but still felt that the actual time the protaganist spent with these characters didnt really justify too much of a reaction, and that my investment in them was not such that I would be particularly moved myself either.  Take the bit with the sister of the protaganist for example, it just felt like it was thrown into 1 episode to try and pull a reaction from the audience, not enough character investment if you want a reaction from me, sry.

Sorry. Diversion....

 

Sounds like quite a lot of time there lol. So I guess the important question is, is the game good and worth that time? Maybe it makes it hard for you to answer that as I didnt like Angel Beats but loved Clannad -.- (which a lot of people seem to think makes no sense). If it helps it was After Story that really made Clannad so good for me, on MAL I think I rated Angel Beats 6 (5.5 if I could), Clannad 8 (7.5 if I could) and Clannad AS 9.

If the problems you have with Angel Beats are as you say, Little Busters! should not present you with the same problems, because it's longgggg. If you like the characters, you will be invested in them and in their routes. And I think the characters in Little Busters! have a good dynamic.
But that's just the thing, if you don't like the characters, you're doomed. And I can't possibly guess if you'll like them or not. So... look at the tags, or maybe watch a video of some characters, or something, if you are so thoroughly undecided. (NOTE: CLANNAD the VN suffers a bit from a problem early Key had, which is, the characters don't interact a lot amongst themselves except for a few routes. The Anime fixed this, and Little Busters! is the exact opposite of this)

If you liked the After Story, expect the true route in this VN to be different from the rest of the routes, as After Story was to the rest of the Visual Novel.

(Also, the music in this game is great. If nothing else, let that sway you)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

If you liked the After Story, expect the true route in this VN to be different from the rest of the routes, as After Story was to the rest of the Visual Novel.

Meaning the true route of Little Busters is equivalent to After Story in terms of, adding almost the length of the original route to the story and providing a more satisfying ending? That is ok with me I guess. True route of LB is Natsume isnt it? You are right with what you say regarding characters, but I do like what you say about interactions, actually lack of interaction between characters is quite a common feature in lots of VNs (well that and lack of actual characters lol). Good music is quite a selling point for me actually, so with what you have said in mind, I guess I will give it a shot at some point.

Cheers for your time man!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/26/2017 at 6:14 AM, FinalCloud said:

Hey thanks for the list.

 

RE Funbag/Kyonyuu it sounds like it may meet the requirement and be ok, but as it is clearly a nukige, does it have a decent plot? And is there actually routes for each heroine with a genuine romantic plot, or is it just a massive haremfest for the MC? (Notice the tag Engages in: Polygamy for the main char) with sex scenes every 5 mins.

Also, Otome is not my thing, I cant really imagine any heterosexual guys would play Otome tbh? That being said, by that logic no heterosexual women would play any of the other VNs u listed, so what do I know lol.

 

 

Porn W/plot

The plot is actually not terrible.

It definitely felt better than most of these kind of nukige, where I basically skipped through text to get to the H..

In other words, it's got both plot and PLOT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For some reason I'm a little OCD about playing things in order, or even in the order they released in.

So i went Kanon -> Air -> Clannad and am gonna play Little busters next.

All key protagonists, seem to be kinda assholish. While a lot of the stuff they do are funny, some of it can be genuinely mean. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Akshay said:

For some reason I'm a little OCD about playing things in order, or even in the order they released in.

So i went Kanon -> Air -> Clannad and am gonna play Little busters next.

All key protagonists, seem to be kinda assholish. While a lot of the stuff they do are funny, some of it can be genuinely mean. 

 

Haha, you lose. You should have played ONE ~Radiant Season~ first.
I kid, but it was essentially made by the same people as Kanon, and follows the same formula. Key tends to make somewhat crazy or sarcastic/prankster protagonists. The one I just mentioned ramps it up to eleven.

Anyhow, have fun. Little Busters! is the first Key title to have a relatively normal protagonist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...