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Nier

{SPOILERS} Dies Irae REALLY Needs a Patch, Unacceptably Outrageous State as it's Riddled by 130+ Script Errors, Missing Voices and Crashes

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I am baffled that after 3 months this game hasn't received a single patch to address any of these problems, this issue is even more glaring since they started manufacturing physical copies, meaning it will have all the issues that are presently plaguing the Steam version and most likely this is an indication that a patch is not coming.

I played through the whole game and took screenshots of instances involving issues, so this is going to be a long post, however I know that there are a few more issues that I did not took note of because when I started playing the game I simply did not expect this game to be riddled with issues, I expected at most a few typos here and there like you would expect from Root Double or Steins;Gate, so there might be more issues that I simply did not take note of:

Missing Voices:

Spoiler

 

Chapter III

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Chapter VII Kei Route:

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Chapter XIII Kasumi Route:

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Chapter XII Rea Route:

The "Go ahead. Raise some hell for us." part is missing the voice.

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Crashes that Prevent You From Progressing:

(You can bypass these by saving right before the crash occur on a new save and reload another save and then click "Skip" it will bring you right after the scene causing the crash, but you will miss out on a few sentences)

Spoiler

 

Chapter XIII Rea Route:

It will crash at both Trifa's and Eleanore's Scenes right after this point:

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Chapter XIII Kasumi Route

I haven't personally encountered this crash so I have no pictures but other people reported it, it's when Kasumi talks to Trifa apparently.

 

 

Script Errors:

Spoiler

 

Chapter VI

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Should be "not a speck of rage nor sorrow"

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Had my attacks

 

Kei Route

Chapter VIII

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Should be "she fell on me"

Chapter IX

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Should be either "take a hold of my body" or "take hold of my body"

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Honjou (Erin Honjou/Ellie) is a woman so it should be "as she patted"

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Again should be "if that was what she wanted to know"

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Missing the space between "exhibit." and "Kei"

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I am not sure about that one, did he meant to say "brat" rather than "bat"? If not it's correct.

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I can't figure out what was the issue here, it might be that some of the voices were missing.

Chapter X

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Should be "made a fascinated smile"

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Two underscores between do, shouldn't it be an italicized do instead?

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Should be "that all have the same last name"

Chapter XI

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Should be "allow me to warn you"

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...what?

Chapter XII

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"I'm letting them to take the vanguard" is obviously wrong, but not sure what's the actual correct phrasing here, also shouldn't it be "once the shit hit the fan"?

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Should be "laying"

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At the end of "the case" either there is one too many dots or one of the dots is missing

Chapter XIII

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Should be "bring an end to this eternal gauntlet!"

 

Other Story III

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There is 2 "being" instead of 1.

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Should be "allow your being to be scorched"

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Should be "ended half a century ago", basically remove the 1 too many "a"s between "ended" and "half"

 

Kasumi Route

Chapter IX

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I am not sure about that one, but is there a space or not between "easy" and "on"?

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Should be "fight!"

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I think it should be rather something like "So much that it makes me jealous."

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Should be "from the vampire's vision"

Chapter X

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Should be "starting to consider her strategy"

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Should be "I am about to tell you the tale of the members from the unfortunate family"

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Should be "I could hear loathing in her voice" or "I could hear the loathing in her voice".

Chapter XI

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Should be "because she didn't like"

Chapter XII

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Should be "wanted to let him rest", so remove the "to" between "him" and "rest", and the "So he didn't have to hurt any longer", yeah I get what it means but that could use some rewording.

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Should be "Now was time for us to turn the tables." again, remove the "to" between "turn" and "the"

Chapter XIII

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Should be "feel like a human"

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Should be "your mind"

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Should be "The men couldn't help but stifle wry smiles at the bizarre display."

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Should be "Schreiber"

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Should be "You really believe in your own strength"

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Obviously something is missing/wrong there, it could be fixed by writting "too much to ask if it could end with a smile."

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Should be "Take out the part how we wish for each other's death", remove the "the" between "for and "each"

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WAY too many "a"s, this could be rewritten as "So I would end up taking the life of the father from a girl I cared about not once, but twice."

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The "for I don't which time" is awkward, it could be rewritten as "for I don't know how many times" or "for the nth time".

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Should be "it was time for the sun to set already.", remove the "the" between "was" and "time"

 

MARIE ROUTE

Chapter VIII

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"meet death" should either have 1 or 3 dots at the end of it.

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Same issue as above at the end of "bear through it all"

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Should be "it's non-alcoholic"

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Should be "more of a sadist"

Chapter IX

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Should be "Did you come here to help me?"

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Should be "what are you going to choose?"

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Should be "made it less than agreeable", remove the "no"

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I am not sure what, there appears to be one or more words missing, the issue is at "Heydrich wants to open up to and including the sixth."

Chapter X

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Should be "She pled to be the only one"

Chapter XI

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Should be "Who was it that I saw?"

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Should be either "nor was she expecting him to", nor was she expecting it to", or "nor was she expecting one".

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Something is wrong with "it was they were assuming", a word is missing between "was" and "they"

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Either it should be "This is odd state of affairs" or "This strange state of affairs"

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Should be "So you doged my attack"

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Should be "would all fall on deaf ears."

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Should be "put him on the shortest leash I could."

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Should be "the Divine Vessel's craftiness"

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"perfected the distance"? Shouldn't it be "closed the distance" or "diminished the distance"?

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Should be either "This won't be the last time you will feel suicidal." or "This won't be the last time you'll feel suicidal."

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Should be "plotting from his murders."

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Obviously there is something wrong with the "seemed almost to", should be something instead like "the added pressure almost seemed to hasten it."

Chapter XII

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Something is wrong with "where I first went to with Marie." possibly a word is missing between "to" and "with"

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Should be "others were but dust to him"

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Should be something like "Reinhard was a soldier dependent of power" or something like that

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Should be "Karl's child would sublimate"

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Should be " A display of what she might have become" remove the "a" between "of" and "what"

Chapter XIII

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Remove the ' just before "certain experience"

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It should be "I swear to the Lord almighty"

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"The voice remained silent" WHAT?

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Should be "I had no idea what kind of grudge"

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At this part it says "my allies" plural, meaning Shirou and Kei, however at this point Ren doesn't yet know that Kei is still alive

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Missing the spaces, should be "my mouth — as if it didn't belong to me — moved"

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Should be "but it was always with him."

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Something is wrong with "an end to the stories of all they hit." should be instead something like "an end to all the stories they hit." or something like that

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Should be "how much I truly appreciated her."

 

Other Story IV

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Missing the quotation mark at the end of the sentence

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Same issue as above, missing the quotation mark at the end

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Should be "we have the best person"

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Something is missing at "those who had once defeated.", it's probable that it's "those who gad defeated him."

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Should be "even the exiled shade"

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There is 1 too many dots, it should be "I don't mind her too much.' Ahahahahahah!"

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It's "unmistakable"

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Should be "as a myriad of smiles"

 

Rea Route

Chapter VII

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Should be "made me believe" (this dialogue is for both Marie's and Rea's routes)

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There are two issues here, first there is a space missing, it should be "and — if possible — have him" and also should be "Would it make him smile if she refused to give up", remove the "I" between "if" and "she"

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There are 2 interrogation points, it should be "What are you going to do now?"

Chapter VIII

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Should be "who has been cowering in the corner" (this dialogue is for both Marie's and Rea's routes)

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There is something wrong I think with the "she had been by the princess."

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Should be "Why the hell wasn't the other one around?", remove 1 of the 2 "the" between "wasn't" and "other"

Chapter IX

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Something is wrong with "the Divine Vessel of Lisa's crimes."

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There is something wrong with "keep her with myself." shouldn't it be "keep her with me." or something else?

Chapter X

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The space is missing, should be "afterimage of the beast again. And at the same"

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Should be "The story of a man..."

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"It only been a dozen" is wrong, not sure if it should be "It has only been a dozen" or "It only has been a dozen"

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Should be "But the true terror of his weapon lay somewhere else completely."

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Should be "...simply met it with another one of his punches."

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Should be "helped her so I could slow you all down!"

Chapter XI

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Space is missing, it should be "All his cells  — every single pore of his body — cheered in elation"

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Something is wrong with "the sold thing that to remains to us"

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Should be "Wil has finally managed to make some."

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Should be "didn't seem to please Kasumi"

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Missing space, it should be "its daily life — its craving — to shreds"

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Missing space, it should be "with a bestial — and quite unprecedented — affinity for battle."

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There are two issues here, first it should be "The last time I had the chance to speak with Marie was in the castle." and also it should be "she hadn't been responding"

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This is missing quite a bit from the introduction namely his rank and real name, you can even hear in the voice that he says "Wilhelm Ehrenburg" yet it is not even written in the text, plus this is not how they properly introduce themselves, it should be: "Number IV of the Longinus Dreizehn Orden's Obsidian Round Table, First Lieutenant Wilhelm Ehrenburg, Kaziklu Bey."

Chapter XII

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The wording is kinda awkward here

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Something is missing at the end of the sentence, should be something like "taking care of all the shit I refused to deal with." or something

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Should be "acting all high and mighty among themselves"

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Should be "A golden sea as far as the eye could see."

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Should be either "I could barely feel anything else" or I was barely feeling anything else"

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Should be "escaped like air from a popped ballon"

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Marie is a woman, so it should be "She found his gaze"

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Should be either "All the extras that died due to his machinations were nothing more than mere statistics for him to toy around with." or remove than "than" and it would be "All the extras that died due to his machinations were mere statistics for him to toy around with."

Chapter XIII

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Should be "delusional zeal"

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Should be "lived as a mere flicker of light."

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Should be "truly have been a demon born"

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Either there should be 3 dots or 1 at the end, not 2

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There are 2 quotation marks at the beginning and end, it should be instead "Okay. You have my permission."

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Should be "none the wiser"

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Should be "could you maybe go easy on me?"

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Should be "You seek the truth of your being.", so remove the "to" between "You" and "seek"

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Missing space between "now" and "the", it should be "It was now the ephemeral mement's turn"

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Should be "This is hardly the end yet, is it?!"

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Should be "provided they weren't of a higher rank than Ren's"

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Should be "you are the actors-obeying-script." or something like that

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Should be "robbed of"

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Something seems odd or missing at the end of "know each other another one of two".

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Should be "for what awaited me.", so remove the "for" between "awaited" and "me"

 

Other Story V

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Should be "all it does is make you look stupid.", so remove the "like" between "look" and "stupid"

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Either it could be "by this new intruder" or "by the new intruder", but not both at the same time

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Should be "there are just things that just don't rub well with me", or something like that


 

 

According to the credits, there 3 translators, 3 editors but ONLY 1 QCer, meaning it only had 1 QC editing pass. No matter how good you are, 1 person alone with 1 QC cannot possibly catch all the mistakes, as has just been demonstrated.

Only having 1 QCer was already questionable, but not releasing any patch to address any of the problems is highly irresponsible for a game in this state.

Okay sure this is a big game, but when compared to other big games such as Root Double and Fate/Stay Night Realta Nua, the state in which this game is in even more glaring when compared to the almost perfect script of the games I just mentioned, 1 of which is a fan-translation!

Meanwhile Degica has been fixing bugs and improving scripts of Muv-Luv months after release...

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This is a really through work. Good job on going all this way. I think the game really needs a few more editing passes. But it's not the spelling and grammatical errors that bother me. It's all the incorrect translations and wrong words they used. A patch is probably unlikely.

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Good job with this. I'll link it on the discord so the translators can verify if any of these weren't reported already on the typo channel.

You really should hide those with the spoiler thing though, it takes a while to load all these images. :P 

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Great job! It's seems I'll wait for a fan patch before considering to buy it.. I was about to buy it two weeks ago.. Good thing I was broke.

I think fan translation usually fare much better than official licensed translations because they take much more time, are done in small skilled groups who just don't take any project, and are usually done by real fans for other fans with no deadline in sight in a hurry to get cash.

Edited by DeadIEnd

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33 minutes ago, DeadIEnd said:

It's seems I'll wait for a fan patch before considering to buy it.. I was about to buy it two weeks ago.. Good thing I was broke.

I think fan translation usually fare much better than official licensed translations because they take much more time, are done in small skilled groups who just don't take any project, and are usually done by real fans for other fans with no deadline in sight in a hurry to get cash.

There's so much wrong with this post that I mentally broke and lifelessly stared at the scared passersby for at least ten minutes.

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1 hour ago, DeadIEnd said:

I think fan translation usually fare much better than official licensed translations

Overall yeah, official localizations are less likely to be good because unlike fan-translation they almost never get patched and they seem to be more cheap and greedy with time, money, QC and post-release support, so an official translation is more likely to release as v1.00 and stay at that forever, so the only hope is to get it right on first try. While fan-translations are more likely to get updated from the original release.

For example, the original Steins;Gate has been released in english officially on multiple platforms since 2014 (PC 2014, PS3 2015, PS Vita 2015 and Steam 2016) and it doesn't appear that the script has ever been retouched, so the same typos and other mistakes/issues found in the original 2014 JAST USA version would be found in the latest official release (September 2016 Steam version), as a matter of fact the "definitive version" comes from a fan-translation group known as "Committee of Zero" that released a patch that fixes the Steam version, which fixes the bugs, crashes, script error, introduce higher quality videos, higher quality FMV music, high quality CGs and (finally) fixes the wordwrapping issue in the phone.

Steins;Gate 0 on the other hand is a whole other beast, while the original Steins;Gate script was relatively free of errors, Steins;Gate 0 script was riddled with issues (no it's not even close to Dies Irae, but for an official release it's bad as ideally it should be held to a higher standard than what we got), the official english release of Steins;Gate 0 was only for PS4 and PS Vita, it was released in November 2016 and it received 1 patch that fixed a few issues and that was the version I played (v1.01), however the game did have multple issues with the text, lots of typos, mistranslations, unstranslated scenes and issues with accents ("köchel" and "café" gets displayed in the game as "k?chel" and "caf?" ), I emailed PQube in January about some of these issues and never gotten a reply and there was never another patch to address any of this, so basically PQube made an official release with a less than stellar script that still could have used a few more editing passes, released 1 patch that fixed 2 issues and then sat on their asses instead of fixing all the remaining things that were still broken. As a matter of fact, once again the "definitive version" is to be found by the unofficial way by the same fan-translation group that fixed Steins;Gate, the "Committee of Zero" released a patch in February 2017 that fixed these issues.

I also noticed a few typos in Root Double here and there (but nothing too big, certainly it's "perfect" if you compare it to the likes of Dies Irae) and as far as I could tell, the game is still at v1.00.

However there are some fan-translations who got released with a script that contained quite a bit of script errors and had never gotten a patch to fix them, 11Eyes comes to mind.

Edited by Nier

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Recent professional English VN releases from known good localization outfits (anything recent from MG, SP, and possibly JAST?) are universally higher quality than fan translation patches. The team that did Dies irae was not associated with any of those, and this was their first project; they likely incorrectly believed they didn't need (or perhaps could not afford at the rate they promised? who knows.) as much QC as is merited. Turns out that when you have hundreds of thousands of words to deal with (Dies irae might even be into the millions?), even if you're pretty damn good, you still make a lot of mistakes.

I'd be curious to see a citation of a really excellent fan translation, which some people in this thread seem to be asserting not only exists, but even go so far as to imply it's the norm. Honestly, even the best ones I've read have universally been filled with errors (at least as high an error rate as what you're seeing in Dies irae, given the number of lines you've quoted and the size of the script), and that's to say nothing of abominations like 11eyes. KoiRizo is a great example of a fairly well-written script, for a fan TL, which is again still chock-full of errors, because QC is both hard and hard to prioritize for fan TLs. Or we could go look at, I dunno, the Little Busters! fan TL, which doesn't even have word wrapping in the entire script. I've certainly never read a fan TL with as high a quality as the S;G0 release being called out in this thread, for instance, even though S;G0 does indeed have at least a couple dozen errors that I found when reading it. I think that's nonetheless still pretty solid for a script of its size.

I also don't even usually see fan TLs releasing patches; the aforementioned KoiRizo, for instance, certainly had someone who was willing and able to make all those fixes, but the people making the patches couldn't be bothered to take them.

Fan TL is a fine thing for getting exposure for stuff that otherwise wouldn't get it, but you're kidding yourselves if you genuinely believe it's higher quality than what you're getting from known good English VN publishers.

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24 minutes ago, Fred the Barber said:

Recent professional English VN releases from known good localization outfits (anything recent from MG, SP, and possibly JAST?) are universally higher quality than fan translation patches. The team that did Dies irae was not associated with any of those, and this was their first project; they likely incorrectly believed they didn't need (or perhaps could not afford at the rate they promised? who knows.) as much QC as is merited. Turns out that when you have hundreds of thousands of words to deal with (Dies irae might even be into the millions?), even if you're pretty damn good, you still make a lot of mistakes.

I'd be curious to see a citation of a really excellent fan translation, which some people in this thread seem to be asserting not only exists, but even go so far as to imply it's the norm. Honestly, even the best ones I've read have universally been filled with errors (at least as high an error rate as what you're seeing in Dies irae, given the number of lines you've quoted and the size of the script), and that's to say nothing of abominations like 11eyes. KoiRizo is a great example of a fairly well-written script, for a fan TL, which is again still chock-full of errors, because QC is both hard and hard to prioritize for fan TLs. Or we could go look at, I dunno, the Little Busters! fan TL, which doesn't even have word wrapping in the entire script. I've certainly never read a fan TL with as high a quality as the S;G0 release being called out in this thread, for instance, even though S;G0 does indeed have at least a couple dozen errors that I found when reading it. I think that's nonetheless still pretty solid for a script of its size.

I also don't even usually see fan TLs releasing patches; the aforementioned KoiRizo, for instance, certainly had someone who was willing and able to make all those fixes, but the people making the patches couldn't be bothered to take them.

Fan TL is a fine thing for getting exposure for stuff that otherwise wouldn't get it, but you're kidding yourselves if you genuinely believe it's higher quality than what you're getting from known good English VN publishers.

Makoto's, Phar's, Koestl's and moogy's fan-tls are kami!

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Don't know who phar is, but as far as I understand, Makoto's, koestl's, and moogy's work are all official releases at this point (at least the ones that are good; ask moogy about the sharin fan TL and see what he thinks...). I've also seen some pretty convincing evidence (i.e., a bunch of screenshots) that the fan releases are not as high quality as the subsequent official release, in the case of Saya no Uta, and I'd be surprised if that's not the case for those same peoples' other works.

Regardless, maybe those are good: I guess what I want to argue isn't that there aren't occasionally acceptable quality fan TL releases, so much as that acceptable fan TL releases are the exception, not the rule, whereas I'd say the opposite for recent MG, SP, and JAST releases (that I've seen, at least; I hardly play every VN out there).

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Phar was the translator for YU-NO and Symphonic Rain (Fan TL one) back at TL Wiki. Oh, and by the way Moogy was also credited for Dies Irae here as well from what I saw at the credit.

As for this matter, good job for compiling all the error I guess. Although I wouldn't count much the chance Light to fix that though, considering that it's their first release outside Japan and therefore they might think that the release was fine as it is. Of course I hope that Light would fix that problem here, but if they really didn't do that later guess we should accept it begrudgingly here and just think that at least it's not old Mangagamer translation or Libra for that matter.

Edited by littleshogun

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4 hours ago, Nier said:

Overall yeah, official localizations are less likely to be good because unlike fan-translation they almost never get patched and they seem to be more cheap and greedy with time, money, QC and post-release support, so an official translation is more likely to release as v1.00 and stay at that forever, so the only hope is to get it right on first try. While fan-translations are more likely to get updated from the original release.

On the one hand, you may have an arguable point here.  It may very well be that fan patches get updated more often.  But in my experience, professional VN releases get patches more frequently than you might think.  Especially if they're released by MangaGamer.

But on the other hand, uh, even if that's true, it would be entirely consistent with the idea that there's more stuff broken in fan patches that needs fixing.

If one company sells washing machines with a no-questions-asked lifetime warranty where they'll replace the unit if it blows up, you're still better off with the company that doesn't offer that because their washing machines don't explode.

Edited by Nandemonai

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10 hours ago, Nandemonai said:

On the one hand, you may have an arguable point here.  It may very well be that fan patches get updated more often.

For example with Amaterasu Translations, you have all these "r1, r2, r3", these are the numbers of released patches. Rewrite had 4 patches released, the latest one was "r4".

The Fate/ translations had been constently updated throughout the years, Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate, Noble Works, Muv-Luv Alternatives Chronicles, Kikokugai, Umineko, Rose Guns Days, Remember11, Period, Higanbana and such and such all received updates to their original patches, I haven't played the original patch release, but the latest one was good, certainly "perfect" when compared to the likes of "official releases" such as Dies Irae, Starless or Konosora.

And keep in mind that alot of "official translations" are actually fan-translations that have been picked up by publishers, just look at Subarashiki Hibi, Dracu-Riot or The Fruit of Grisaia.

And then you have stuff like 11Eyes who only had a v1.00 release and that was it, even though it could have used some more editing passes which never happened since the patch is still at v1.00, there's also I/O Revision II script which had quite a bit of script errors even on v1.02 (the latest released patch version released by Lemnisca Translations before they took down all their patches) though that one could be said that it was due to them not having enough time to keep on updating the script as they suddenly cut all ties to their fan-translation work with the announcement of the official Root Double release and there are some others who are "technically" unfinished such as Ikikoi (the latest final patch is actually named v0.81) and Kurukuru Fanatic. On the other hand Hatsukoi 1/1, Majikoi and Majikoi S fan-translation patches are only at v1.00 and there doesn't need new patches because when I played them I didn't notice anything wrong with the original patches.

 

10 hours ago, Nandemonai said:

But on the other hand, uh, even if that's true, it would be entirely consistent with the idea that there's more stuff broken in fan patches that needs fixing.

If one company sells washing machines with a no-questions-asked lifetime warranty where they'll replace the unit if it blows up, you're still better off with the company that doesn't offer that because their washing machines don't explode.

Fan-translation patches are free unlike official releases, Dies Irae for one costs 40 bucks, Steins;Gate 0 costed 60 bucks at release, Konosora was 30 at release, Starless is 40. I prefer a fan-translation script that's been perfected at the end of the day through the release of updated patches than an official release that's riddled with issues for all eternity because publishers can't be bothered with post-release support (Dies Irae, Steins;Gate 0, Starless and the likes).

Slogging through this script filled with errors just isn't fun and takes away the immersion, this is why I never bothered with playing more than 2 hours of Starless (where's that patch JAST?) and I wouldn't have bothered with a script in that pitiful state if it wasn't for the fact that it was Dies Irae, reading through hundred of script errors as well as getting through crashes and missing voices just isn't nice and takes alot away from the experience. You do realize the amount of work and time it took me to compile all this stuff, not to mention the constant loss of immersion with taking a screenshot whenever an issue pops up, right? But I am not Dies Irae's editor, QCer or technical support staff, I am a customer and this work should have all been done by the editors/QCer either before the release of the game or after the release of the game through patches, but obviously this is not the case and we are stuck with what you are seeing right now.

 

Edited by Nier

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If the missing voices are due to missing voice files in the Japanese release, there is not really anything translators can do about it. However translators can introduce crashes. This would be a crash when displaying a certain line, though this will usually cause a crash even if you try to skip passed it. Not all VN engines are equally friendly towards getting English text and it's can actually be a lot harder to get them working than one might think. Sengoku Rance (the patch, not the MG work in progress) has left some names untranslated because translating them would cause the game to crash. I had to write a program to insert English text into Musumaker because just replacing Japanese text with English will cause crashes and the workaround for that is too tricky to do by hand for each line.

It's also worth mentioning that some official translations have been using different engines than the Japanese versions of the same VNs because of engine limitations. For all we know, Fan TLs can crash because of such engine limitations. Fan tls has less freedom when it comes to choice of engine because they can't repack every single data file to match the new engine. Also some VN engines use compiled scripts and moving those to a new engine requires the source code for those scripts. Just like pre-censored CGs, the source code is only available to official translators.


In short: yes missing voices and crashes are annoying, but I wouldn't blame the translators for those, at least not without checking that the problems aren't present in the Japanese version or if they are caused by engine limitations.

The script errors are due to translators, or rather editors and QC. @Fred the Barber commented pretty well on that part.

 

11 hours ago, RedK said:

Yeah, fan-tls are dead. You're doing God's work with Majokoi btw

I was about to write something about how that's not the case and fan tls are progressing etc. (at least those I have internal knowledge of). However your post made me think about this and I have come to realize something.

 

Way back in the dawn of time for English VNs, lets say year 2000, translations were made by a group of people gathering in the same building to work on a translation. Once completed, it was put on CDs, placed in boxes and then the boxes were sold. In other words it was the pre-internet approach.

 

The problem with that approach is that if you happen to live in an area without such a company and you can't or won't move to a location of such a company, the only way to translate is to make a fan tl patch. Sure enough fan tl patches started to appear.

 

Now the one building resulting in CDs approach has died and most (all?) of the companies with it. Today we have some other companies and they have embraced the internet. Suddenly translators can sit in their parent's basement or in some foreign country or whereever they are and work on commercial titles. This means skilled people are no longer forced to only work on fan tl patches.

 

What does this mean for the fan tl patches? Mostly it means brain drain. Skilled people figure why not get paid to do what they currently do for free? Is it the end for fan tls? Not as I see it. The fan tl community will likely shift towards having a bunch of people who does the work to gain experience, which will help them getting a paid job. This means it will not die, but since the official releases will end up with all the skilled and experienced people, we can expect the fan tl quality to drop relative to the official releases. I wouldn't call that dying, but we will likely see fewer masterpieces. Having said that, some people want to translate one specific title and if they can't get paid to do so, they could do it for free, which is likely the main reason why I will say that we might still get masterpieces as fan tls.

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22 minutes ago, tymmur said:

If the missing voices are due to missing voice files in the Japanese release, there is not really anything translators can do about it. However translators can introduce crashes.

Never mentioned this had to do with the translators, how did you come up with this assumption?

I mentioned the issues plaguing the official english release which I played, period. The issues being script errors, crashes and missing voices, as it says in the title.

And anyways no matter who is at fault, the issues are there, yet no patch was released to address them and the physical copies are being manufactured  for shipping in October meaning the physical copies will come bundled with all the issues presented in the OP which would indicate that they are "satisfied" with this v1.00 and don't plan to patch it.

Edited by Nier

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15 minutes ago, Nier said:

Never mentioned this had to do with the translators, how did you come up with this assumption?

You ask for a patch to fix this for the English release, which can only be released by the people responsible for the English translation. Nobody in Japan can fix the English release. In other words you end up blaming the people behind the English release, regardless of who caused the issues in the first place.

 

Having said that, odds are that crashing in specific lines are an issue with the translation. Missing voice files are likely the result of them being lost or never recorded, meaning they are missing in the Japanese version as well and the only solution is the expensive one of recording them again.

 

23 minutes ago, Nier said:

"satisfied" with this v1.00 and don't plan to patch it.

I don't think satisfied is the right word for including issues like that. It's likely more in line with "this isn't good, but we have no choice". Alternatively they might be unaware of all the issues. We don't know how they tested it. Maybe they read through samples and fast forwarded the rest. One of the reasons software is released with bugs is that it could take years to test every single combination. Because of this, people who encounter issues should report them, which then makes it possible to fix such issues.

 

Your ranting reminds me of an incident I had a few years ago. Suddenly I was blamed for not fixing a bug and it had been broken for 3 months. The guy blaming me admitting that he was the one to break it. He talked with some other people about it and ended up figuring out that I was the one to fix it, only nobody told me and by chance I didn't encounter the bug personally. Suddenly getting attacked like that for not doing a task you didn't know about is no fun. Make proper reporting and rant if they are ignored.

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8 hours ago, Nier said:

For example with Amaterasu Translations, you have all these "r1, r2, r3", these are the numbers of released patches. Rewrite had 4 patches released, the latest one was "r4".

The Fate/ translations had been constently updated throughout the years, Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate, Noble Works, Muv-Luv Alternatives Chronicles, Kikokugai, Umineko, Rose Guns Days, Remember11, Period, Higanbana and such and such all received updates to their original patches, I haven't played the original patch release, but the latest one was good, certainly "perfect" when compared to the likes of "official releases" such as Dies Irae, Starless or Konosora.

And keep in mind that alot of "official translations" are actually fan-translations that have been picked up by publishers, just look at Subarashiki Hibi, Dracu-Riot or The Fruit of Grisaia.

And then you have stuff like 11Eyes who only had a v1.00 release and that was it, even though it could have used some more editing passes which never happened since the patch is still at v1.00, there's also I/O Revision II script which had quite a bit of script errors even on v1.02 (the latest released patch version released by Lemnisca Translations before they took down all their patches) though that one could be said that it was due to them not having enough time to keep on updating the script as they suddenly cut all ties to their fan-translation work with the announcement of the official Root Double release and there are some others who are "technically" unfinished such as Ikikoi (the latest final patch is actually named v0.81) and Kurukuru Fanatic. On the other hand Hatsukoi 1/1, Majikoi and Majikoi S fan-translation patches are only at v1.00 and there doesn't need new patches because when I played them I didn't notice anything wrong with the original patches.

 

Fan-translation patches are free unlike official releases, Dies Irae for one costs 40 bucks, Steins;Gate 0 costed 60 bucks at release, Konosora was 30 at release, Starless is 40. I prefer a fan-translation script that's been perfected at the end of the day through the release of updated patches than an official release that's riddled with issues for all eternity because publishers can't be bothered with post-release support (Dies Irae, Steins;Gate 0, Starless and the likes).

Slogging through this script filled with errors just isn't fun and takes away the immersion, this is why I never bothered with playing more than 2 hours of Starless (where's that patch JAST?) and I wouldn't have bothered with a script in that pitiful state if it wasn't for the fact that it was Dies Irae, reading through hundred of script errors as well as getting through crashes and missing voices just isn't nice and takes alot away from the experience. You do realize the amount of work and time it took me to compile all this stuff, not to mention the constant loss of immersion with taking a screenshot whenever an issue pops up, right? But I am not Dies Irae's editor, QCer or technical support staff, I am a customer and this work should have all been done by the editors/QCer either before the release of the game or after the release of the game through patches, but obviously this is not the case and we are stuck with what you are seeing right now.

 

Of the fan patches you're praising for updates, I've only played Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate, and fairly recently (well over a year after their last release, I believe), and I can attest it's still got a fair number of errors. It's no 11eyes, by a long shot, but it's not as good as a typical release-date MG release, or S;G0. I actually don't understand the fixation on that one; it's seriously fine.

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It needs a patch yea, but I don't think you can say that it's "unacceptably outrageous state". Seems like an exaggeration? I mean I agree that it's baffling that there is no patch in sight but we had faar worse releases. It's not an excuse for them not to fix it though.

Edited by furleppe

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20 hours ago, novurdim said:

There's so much wrong with this post that I mentally broke and lifelessly stared at the scared passersby for at least ten minutes.

THIS. So much idiocy put together in so few lines. It is sad to see people who believe professional translators would do a bad job just for fast cash, or that they are not fans. I wouldn't even start saying everything I thought about his post, because I'd be here the whole day on a pointless discussion.

 

Now, PLEASE SOMEONE PUT THOSE IMAGES IN A SPOILER. My hamsters cannot keep my laptop running with so many pictures loading at the same time.

 

On thread: Probably it has been said by now, but these mistakes are not just the translator's or editors' fault. Dies Irae is a pretty long game, and it wouldn't be excpeted less than having errors that were overlooked. What you can do is to contact the company behing its release in order to them to fix it.

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22 hours ago, Nier said:

For example with Amaterasu Translations, you have all these "r1, r2, r3", these are the numbers of released patches. Rewrite had 4 patches released, the latest one was "r4".

The Fate/ translations had been constently updated throughout the years, Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate, Noble Works, Muv-Luv Alternatives Chronicles, Kikokugai, Umineko, Rose Guns Days, Remember11, Period, Higanbana and such and such all received updates to their original patches, I haven't played the original patch release, but the latest one was good, certainly "perfect" when compared to the likes of "official releases" such as Dies Irae, Starless or Konosora.

...

Fan-translation patches are free unlike official releases, Dies Irae for one costs 40 bucks, Steins;Gate 0 costed 60 bucks at release, Konosora was 30 at release, Starless is 40. I prefer a fan-translation script that's been perfected at the end of the day through the release of updated patches than an official release that's riddled with issues for all eternity because publishers can't be bothered with post-release support (Dies Irae, Steins;Gate 0, Starless and the likes).

And the Chaos:Head patch was released in 2008.  It had a show-stopping bug where, if you saved at the wrong time, attempting to load that save would crash the game.  Whoever developed that patch never bothered to fix it.  It wasn't fixed until earlier this year (or was it late last year?) by a completely different team, and then only because that new group started working on Chaos;Head Noah.

Also, you mention fan translation scripts that have been "perfected"?  Fan translations vary widely in quality, and many of them are pretty darned crappy.  I haven't played it myself, but I am given to understand that even at revision 4, Amaterasu's work on ReWrite just wasn't very good.

Finally, while it is true that fan translation patches are free, the games themselves are not.  Fan translations ask you to pay the ridiculous Japanese retail price for these games.  That's way more than any of the professional releases you mentioned.  Of course, if you just pirate the Japanese release, and compare that to paying for Western releases, well then that's not a fair comparison at all.

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23 hours ago, tymmur said:

You ask for a patch to fix this for the English release, which can only be released by the people responsible for the English translation. Nobody in Japan can fix the English release. In other words you end up blaming the people behind the English release, regardless of who caused the issues in the first place.

Why the obssession with translators though? I pointed out issues with the script, crashes at certain point in the game that prevent you from progressing and issues with audio voice missing/not playing at certain point in the game.

1. The script issues that I provided photographic evidence for were typos, gramatical mistakes, odd sentences (among other tings), this is the job of the QCer and Editors.

2. The issue with the crashes and voices not playing is the domain of the Technical Staff who's work involve putting everything together in a working order.

 

23 hours ago, tymmur said:

Your ranting

Pointing out glaring issues with a release is not "ranting".

 

22 hours ago, Fred the Barber said:

Of the fan patches you're praising for updates, I've only played Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate, and fairly recently (well over a year after their last release, I believe), and I can attest it's still got a fair number of errors.

Did you apply the latest patch? If you played a pre-patched copy, most likely you played the original release.

The latest version (the one I played) didn't have hundreds of typos, weird sentences and grammatical mistakes.

And beside, are you implying that an OFFICIAL release shouldn't be held to a higher standard than a free fan-translation?

 

22 hours ago, Fred the Barber said:

S;G0. I actually don't understand the fixation on that one; it's seriously fine.

The reason for that is that it was quite the downgrade compared to the original Steins;Gate 2014 release, simple as that, it might have been "fine-ish" if it was a fan-translation, it is not fine for an official release especially since it is of a lower quality than the script of the 2014 Steins;Gate. While Steins;Gate was pretty much a high quality release with an almost perfect script at launch, Steins;Gate 0 in contrast was quite rough and lacked it's refinement as it did have multiple issues with the script that were never patched, either because it was rushed or because they cheapened out on the editing/QC and post-release support (or both possibly), there were also issues with the display of accents and untranslated parts that were also never fixed either.

 

22 hours ago, furleppe said:

It needs a patch yea, but I don't think you can say that it's "unacceptably outrageous state". Seems like an exaggeration?

Making an official release filled with hundreds of typos and leaving it as-is IS the exaggeration.

 

19 hours ago, Silvz said:

On thread: Probably it has been said by now, but these mistakes are not just the translator's or editors' fault.

QCer too, so the people who's job involve getting paid for ironing out the script and insuring that everything has been properly ironed aren't at fault for releasing a script filled with hundred of non-ironed issues? Right, sure...

I am not the only one pointing this issues out, here is a reddit thread from 12 days ago:

fsbbBDM.png

 

Edited by Nier

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Please use a spoiler. The OP is making this thread unnecessarily long and awkward to navigate.

I haven't played the Eng. version myself, but I remember seeing some preliminary work on Dies by Conjourer/Gare and thinking it was really good prose and that I couldn't hold a candle to their ability, so it really makes me wonder what could have caused them to come up with those obviously clumsy lines. 

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I somehow doubt that even a single of those reddit commenters actually knows enough Japanese to say that the English translation is too "awkwardly flowery" when compared to the original. But the best part was that guy saying "he is still in high school, why doesn't he talk like an average kid!? What a clumsy translation!" Indeed, my man, indeed. 

On the topic, clearly the translation could be considerably better, but Light probably simply doesn't care enough about it to give the guys more time for the polish or release patches. They hired Regista to organize the process, which they did and did pretty well, and after that likely don't even communicate much with the West. Regista's job is done long ago and Light only cares about the fact that the game was released so seriously believing in post-launch support was naive to begin with. Plus they still have that 18+ patch to deal with. Oh well. 

Edited by novurdim

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I don't believe any of those redditors said that the translation is awkwardly flowery. They seem fully aware that the text is in fact supposed to be flowery, but as characterized by the lines throwawaydiesirae, those lines aren't even awkwardly flowery; they are just... awkward.

Edited by Beichuuka

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