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Lack of the English version of this game, I initially tried to read this by applying the horizontal text patch and then subsequently

hooking and auto-translating it into Korean. This mostly works for most games, given that the grammar structure of Japanese and Korean is very similar, if not identical .

But just for the very exception of this game it wouldn't work as pleased : The Japanese in this game is just TOO archaistic for even Korean to be translated in a legible way.

There were some people who just put up with the inconvenience and read to the end, but not my case since it was too hard for me to tolerate .

 

I went off for some searching and eventually have found the full translation of muramasa from someone . 

But the issue here is that I believe he has no interest in making a translation patch for the game.

He just translated it and posted it in his blog with the adequate BGM and images per paragraph  , making it look like a simple web novel or such.

 

So I thought of making the patch myself using the nitroplus exclusive NIPA engine and the blogger's translation , but that I'm completely a novice to this stuff,

I have no idea what I'm supposed to do.  Would there be like a generous step - by - step guide for how to use it ?

Once I only get enlightened of the process,  it should be easy to insert inside the game by just doing copy and paste for each phrase.

I'd be really appreciated for any sort of help of this situation.

 

Edited by ryazyle
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Are you trying to tell me someone translated the whole game into native korean and did it through LP's? How feasible of a translation would that be? You do understand how specific Muramasa's language and vocabulary are? That visual novel requires a tremendous amount of knowledge in regards to japanese in order to even properly understand everything, least translate it without removing everything that makes it for what it is. I actually doubt it's possible to translate it into any other known language without it greatly affecting the writing itself and the final translation quality in the process.

It's not mockery; I'm simply baffled with people, who tilt at the windmills, without showing any prior knowledge, nor understanding of shit they're going into. I'd respond differently, if things would look different, but the fact you solely admit to not having the slightest idea even where to start is more than enough of a proof to solidify my opinion. Not to mention - why even searching for help on english forums, if you plan to translate into korean? I'm sure there's plenty of korean-based communities dabbling with game translations; it's probably wiser to search there.

We do have some tutorials on script extraction/insertion on the forums, albeit I doubt any of them covers Nitroplus engines. You're probably best off to start in the Development Boards.

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you can use garbro instead of nipa,

https://github.com/morkt/GARbro

both can be used for nitro plus games, you dont need to do anything with the script, since it just a plain text format, just open it in text editor and start translating, the differences is nipa require you to have basic knowledge to use console, while garbro already has GUI for easier use, even for noobs...

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12 hours ago, Narcosis said:

Are you trying to tell me someone translated the whole game into native korean and did it through LP's? How feasible of a translation would that be? You do understand how specific Muramasa's language and vocabulary are? That visual novel requires a tremendous amount of knowledge in regards to japanese in order to even properly understand everything, least translate it without removing everything that makes it for what it is. I actually doubt it's possible to translate it into any other known language without it greatly affecting the writing itself and the final translation quality in the process.

It's not mockery; I'm simply baffled with people, who tilt at the windmills, without showing any prior knowledge, nor understanding of shit they're going into. I'd respond differently, if things would look different, but the fact you solely admit to not having the slightest idea even where to start is more than enough of a proof to solidify my opinion. Not to mention - why even searching for help on english forums, if you plan to translate into korean? I'm sure there's plenty of korean-based communities dabbling with game translations; it's probably wiser to search there.

We do have some tutorials on script extraction/insertion on the forums, albeit I doubt any of them covers Nitroplus engines. You're probably best off to start in the Development Boards.

 

 

Actually yes,  he translated everything into Korean which is  in pretty high quality, and its not an impossible feat compared to English.

Its' because the grammar and vocabulary are very similar between the two languages, and makes them easy to learn and translate .

Which is also why there are a lot more translated  VNs in Korean compared to English.

But the problem is, as you've asked,  there ain't much korean forums out there where people share deep ideas about VNs.   not to mention where  any kind of

discussion related to extracting and stuff.  

Mostly, they are ignorant about patches so all they do is just translate everything and put it in their personal blog.  Even a full translation of baldr sky is out there which is unpatched.

And as you've said I do admit that I don't know my shit and what's going on, but , correct me if I'm wrong,  I do believe that the translation itself is the thing that's the chore than the extract and technical stuff,  but given that I already have prepared the former, I thought it would not be impossible to make thepatch

 

Edited by ryazyle
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1 hour ago, ryazyle said:

 

Lack of the English version of this game, I initially tried to read this by applying the horizontal text patch and then subsequently

hooking and auto-translating it into Korean. This mostly works for most games, given that the grammar structure of Japanese and Korean is very similar, if not identical .

But just for the very exception of this game it wouldn't work as pleased : The Japanese in this game is just TOO archaistic for even Korean to be translated in a legible way.

There were some people who just put up with the inconvenience and read to the end, but not my case since it was too hard for me to tolerate .

 

I went off for some searching and eventually have found the full translation of muramasa from someone . 

But the issue here is that I believe he has no interest in making a translation patch for the game.

He just translated it and posted it in his blog with the adequate BGM and images per paragraph  , making it look like a simple web novel or such.

 

So I thought of making the patch myself using the nitroplus exclusive NIPA engine and the blogger's translation , but that I'm completely a novice to this stuff,

I have no idea what I'm supposed to do.  Would there be like a generous step - by - step guide for how to use it ?

Once I only get enlightened of the process,  it should be easy to insert inside the game by just doing copy and paste for each phrase.

I'd be really appreciated for any sort of help of this situation.

 

Complexity and Nitroplus's choice of kanji are probably the biggest problems.  From what little I've seen of Korean, the structure, while similar (probably due to the intermixing of peoples after the abortive invasion by Toyotomi's Japan four hundred years ago) handles complex sentence structure differently from Japanese, and that problem becomes more obvious the more descriptive the sentence is.  Muramasa does a lot of complex infodumping, so auto-translation probably won't work even between other Asian languages outside of dialogue.

Edit: Also, like many chuunige, Muramasa has a lot of odd and archaic kanji choices for even the most common words.

Edited by Clephas
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4 hours ago, Clephas said:

Complexity and Nitroplus's choice of kanji are probably the biggest problems.  From what little I've seen of Korean, the structure, while similar (probably due to the intermixing of peoples after the abortive invasion by Toyotomi's Japan four hundred years ago) handles complex sentence structure differently from Japanese, and that problem becomes more obvious the more descriptive the sentence is.  Muramasa does a lot of complex infodumping, so auto-translation probably won't work even between other Asian languages outside of dialogue.

 

You're right, even though the structure itself is very similar,  if it gets a little too complex, its hard to just rely in hooking and auto-translation.

But when it comes to manual translation, however harsh the complexity , its rather easy and takes less time to translate it into the adequate phrases.

I think that's why VN's that are entitled " impossible to translate "  are fully translated by mere fans, not professionals, in Korea . 

To them, the difficulty is not the issue than the length, which is why I happened to find one of Muramasa in high quality.

 

 

4 hours ago, Huang Ling Yin said:

you can use garbro instead of nipa,

https://github.com/morkt/GARbro

both can be used for nitro plus games, you dont need to do anything with the script, since it just a plain text format, just open it in text editor and start translating, the differences is nipa require you to have basic knowledge to use console, while garbro already has GUI for easier use, even for noobs...

Thank you :)

Edited by ryazyle
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9 minutes ago, ryazyle said:

 

You're right, even though the structure itself is very similar,  if it gets a little too complex, its hard to just rely in hooking and auto-translation.

But when it comes to manual translation, however harsh the complexity , its rather easy and takes less time to translate it into the adequate phrases.

I think that's why VN's that are entitled " impossible to translate "  are fully translated by mere fans, not professionals, in Korea . 

To them, the difficulty is not the issue than the length, which is why I happened to find one of Muramasa in high quality.

 

One of the issues with professional translation into Korean is that the financial benefit to the companies doing the localization would be significantly less than with English... primarily because English is a language understood by several billion people, to one extent or another (meaning people who only have it as a second language who are otakus might be willing to purchase an English version, if it wasn't available in their own language).  The same goes for many other languages... if it isn't done by fans, it probably won't get done at all.  For a long time, that was true of English as well...

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37 minutes ago, Clephas said:

One of the issues with professional translation into Korean is that the financial benefit to the companies doing the localization would be significantly less than with English... primarily because English is a language understood by several billion people, to one extent or another (meaning people who only have it as a second language who are otakus might be willing to purchase an English version, if it wasn't available in their own language).  The same goes for many other languages... if it isn't done by fans, it probably won't get done at all.  For a long time, that was true of English as well...

 

Yes, that goes with me too.  I found just using English versions more convenient than using hookers of my own language . I'm comparatively new to VNs and lack knowledge about the English VN market, but as you've mentioned,  it does seem there are a whole bunch of more fans than korea, having a billions of speakers.  So I thought even though there are so much more English fans, the discrepancy between English and Japanese made it hard to translate long and complicated  VNs like muramasa, baldr sky, dies irae unless a big firm like STEAM stepped up . But on the contrary, there's are not much companies professionally translating Japanese games like steam here in Korea because as you've said, lack of profitability and financial benefit  and the negative image of otakus playing visual novels. So fans have to resort solely on hooking .  And that there's no huge visual novel network like fuwanovel , the technical knowledge which only a few people possess does not get distributed , making such an awkward and unacceptable result :  Fans translate the whole VN without even considering to make a patch from the first place.   lol

 

 

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6 minutes ago, ryazyle said:

But on the contrary, there's are not much companies professionally translating Japanese games like steam here in Korea because as you've said, lack of profitability and financial benefit  and the negative image of otakus playing visual novels. So fans have to resort solely on hooking .

The biggest market for Visual Novels are as follow:

1. Japanese Speakers

2. Chinese Speakers

3. English Speakers

English speakers are also not solely restricted to english speaking countries unlike japanese speakers and chinese speakers who for the most part are pretty much unilaterally concentrated in their language's respective countries. That is due to english being a very easy and practical language, unlike japanese and chinese.

Also you should know that Muramasa is an extremely long game, we are talking about a 100-150 hours title here.

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35 minutes ago, Nier said:

The biggest market for Visual Novels are as follow:

1. Japanese Speakers

2. Chinese Speakers

3. English Speakers

English speakers are also not solely restricted to english speaking countries unlike japanese speakers and chinese speakers who for the most part are pretty much unilaterally concentrated in their language's respective countries. That is due to english being a very easy and practical language, unlike japanese and chinese.

Also you should know that Muramasa is an extremely long game, we are talking about a 100-150 hours title here.

 

English being a universal language and having a massive market isn't something I would argue with.

But the reason for it could be subjective. Some could say it's because its practical and easy,

but for me I think it's more of an historical aspect.  Anyways, that's not the point .

 

Japan is the main producer of VNs, and when it comes to translation, the Asian countries that have the similar language construction should have more or less ease. But English a world wide spoken language, having a big market and fans, it is overcoming that disadvantage, being one of the biggest markets in VN.

 

But come to think of it,  I do admit that    "Korea has more Translated VNs than in English"   was a wrong phrase to say because even though Korea has a lot of them translated because of language compatibility,  those are just fan translations that aren't even made into patches.  So it would be no surprise if China and English has a lot more completed ones.

 

What I wanted to say is,  I know muramasa is long,  but already having the translation text someone else has already made , I thought it might be possible to make a patch if I knew the methods of using the extract tool. 

 

 

Edited by ryazyle
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19 minutes ago, ryazyle said:

But come to think of it,  I do admit that    "Korea has more Translated VNs than in English"   was a wrong phrase to say because even though Korea has a lot of them translated because of language compatibility,  those are just fan translations that aren't even made into patches.  So it would be no surprise if China and English has a lot more completed ones.

Korean language do have some fan-translated patches, I see Korean being listed from time to time on certain games listed on vndb, but overall chinese takes the #1 spot when it comes to translated VN as you can both include officially translated games and fan-translated ones, #2 seem to be english nowadays when you take into account both fan-translated and official releases and VN in english are really taking off now. As a matter of fact back in 2013 it was all pretty much fan-translated games and I could easily keep up with the releases, but today there is just so much long VNs getting released either officially or fan-translated that I can't keep up anymore.

 

18 minutes ago, ryazyle said:

What I wanted to say is,  I know muramasa is long,  but already having the translation text someone else has already made , I thought it might be possible to make a patch if I knew the methods of using the extract tool.

It could be possible, but it would require alot of hacking and I am not really sure if it would still be feasible whiteout additional work from the original developer. The situation reminds me of E.X. Troopers and why it couldn't be localized in english:

https://www.technobuffalo.com/2012/12/12/capcom-explains-decision-to-not-localize-e-x-troopers/

Quote

“[E.X. Troopers] was not planned for Western release. You can tell this because all of the text is ‘hard coded’ as actual art. The text isn’t just standard ‘text’ that could be swapped relatively easily…

…To localize a release, one would have to redo a ton of art in the game, not just do the localization and loc QA.”

 

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28 minutes ago, Nier said:

It could be possible, but it would require alot of hacking and I am not really sure if it would still be feasible whiteout additional work from the original developer

for newer nitroplus engine? yes... 
but not with the old one, except for steins gate (which the tools is also available) 
even it just one, i already test with totono.

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