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Thatcomicguy

Clannad? Overrated or Worthy of it's honours?

34 posts in this topic

I'm sure everyone here has at least heard of Clannad, if not played it as after all it is one of the most famous and successful VN's in the West. But do you guys think it's truly a shining example as critics and others making it out to be or are one of the  "it's good/great VN but far from a master piece." kinda folk?

For me I started it in July I think I bought just before it went on the Steam Summer Sale... Shitty luck I know. I found it really funny with Sunohara comedic moments and really liked and enjoyed everyone else... Besides Nagisa (again shitty luck) considering the main route and the afterstory are her's. For that reason I'll be honest I've gotten bored of it and it's slow pacing. So I dropped it during the Afterstory after so many stop and starts reading it. I had it spoiled so I know exactly what happens and it's meant to be super sad but I just generally couldn't care haha. I'll go back and finish one day once my unread pile's a bit smaller as I don't like leaving things unfinished not matter how iffy I feel about them.

But getting back on track what did you guys think of it?

From me and what I've read it's a solid 7 outta 10 it's good and some of the routes are great but it's the pacing and an unlikable main heroine for the "true route" that drags it down for me. I'll give it credit for hitting me in the feels with some of the other heroines like Fuko and Kotomi's routes are sad but given that tragedy and crippling sadness are it's main selling points. I can also point out other VN's that do it better. The Grisaia series for one *and I know it came out later so it could improve of what Clannad left but still.* that's just off the top of my head without thinking about others.  

 

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Posted (edited)

I think this is more of a personal matter than evaluating its quality. That Clannad is good is a fact, but that it is overrated is as well. When you read all Key games and understand what the author is doing there, Clannad looses most of its charm.

For me, After Story was not about the fate of Nagisa, but how it was done, developed, described. Not going into spoilers here, but I alread knew the story for watching the anime first, but reading the same from the point of view of Tomoya was a completely new experience for me - and it was that that made me cry again.

About being overrated, I already talked about it on one of the thousand Grisaia's threads, but I was totally ignored. Basically, all works that get as famous as Clannad did are overrated, but that does not mean that the work is not worth it, just that people are a pain.

Edited by Silvz
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I feel that there is some great stuff in Clannad, but ALLOT of unnecessary fluff and missed opportunities. Although it is really the space magic bullshit of an ending that drags it down from "great" to "good". It really does feel like something ran out, be it money, time, or fucks to give. The creators just went fuck it that's long enough and stapled a wretched deus ex machina to the end. 

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I remember enjoying the anime but I've never had the urge to rewatch it or play the VN.

Personally I really can't get past the art style of the VN.

This guy really likes trying to troll starting debates. :P

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The multitude of ways Sunohura is fucked over will ensure it always remains close to my heart although I agree that the pacing and route order make it less enjoyable at points.

It's been a while since I've read it but if i remember right a lot of the After Story stuff focusing on other characters like the Sanae and Akio was pretty solid anyway, so even knowing the big spoiler didn't ruin it for me.

 

Also report to the ship as soon as possible.

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Clannad has shit pacing and desperately needs to be edited down to 1/4 of its size. I currently have it rated a 7/10 — its good moments are pretty good, and I'm even that special kind of sap who actually enjoy the enormous asspull of a true ending, but the tremendous amount of unnecessary crap and bad routes make it tough for me to enjoy. I think the anime is quite a bit better than the VN, though, largely because it 1) basically solves the pacing problems, and 2) makes the characters (especially the heroines) seem much more lively. In the VN, everybody felt kind of flat personality-wise, and of course the VN's character art is honestly pretty shitty. KyoAni did wonders for it, though I think what they did with Kanon is even more impressive (a worse VN than Clannad made into a better anime than Clannad's adaptation).

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Alright, all I know about Clannad is the name, and that it's by Key.  I've got access to both, so just assumed I ought to play the game first and back-burnered the anime.  Is this not the case?  Should I watch the anime instead?

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14 minutes ago, Nandemonai said:

Alright, all I know about Clannad is the name, and that it's by Key.  I've got access to both, so just assumed I ought to play the game first and back-burnered the anime.  Is this not the case?  Should I watch the anime instead?

...Maybe?

Have you played anything else by Key? Do you enjoy their long common routes? CLANNAD is a bit long and slow paced for a lot of people. The anime streamlines things and gives you what's important. Many people prefer it. The only reasons to play the game seem to be the comedy and fleshing out of certain character's stories, by my experience, as well as the MC's extra monologue that being a VN brings.

None of it really necessary. I'd also add that the anime executes interaction between characters better than the VN, making them seem more lively and an organic group of friends as opposed to individuals who occasionally mingle.

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Posted (edited)

Technically yes, I have; but Planetarian is probably not a good comparison because of how short it is.  Other than that, no; I've watched Kanon (both versions) but never played it and likewise I watched Air (and wasn't overly impressed).

Edited by Nandemonai

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 It's overrated and aged rather poorly. People are better off watching the anime adaptations, which are also far more enjoyable. Doesn't change the fact it remains one of the best down to earth slice of life drama ever created.

Seriously though - save your time and watch the anime instead.

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Unless you've got a spare 200 hours (there's a guide called the 300 hour guide) the anime is quite the tempting alternative. You can't get to the after story unless you've unlocked each characters' sparkly thing (which is dodgy gameplay design imo. Replaying the lengthy common route 7ish times to do each character just so you can get to the ending feels like the developers trolling their fans.) 

The anime was actually a nice adaption, and if you like that then you can always play the VN afterward for added frustration depth :) 

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Posted (edited)

Honestly, it depends of which aspect you're talking about. Clannad is my favorite VN so far mainly because there are so many routes and the novel pretty much throws you into the wolves in regards to choice-making. However, i'd probably call it overrated if we're only talking about the story.

Edited by onorub
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15 minutes ago, Zidan209 said:

You play it for 3 things: Tomoyo, Akio and Kyou.

Others not as good

Here, better.

 

To make an analogy...Clannad is like the tastiest cake you ever had in your life...But you're forced to eat 4 Kg of that cake or else you DIE, and some parts of the cake are rotten, others taste like semen...etc

So yes, the cake is delicious...But in the overall, that tastiness is dilluted into a lot of shit and garbage. 

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9lbs of bukkake frosting cake. I dunno if I applaud it as a culinary masterpiece or wonder how much cream(pies) it took to make it look like a crispy cream donut?

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13 hours ago, EdwardWongHPTIV said:

I remember enjoying the anime but I've never had the urge to rewatch it or play the VN.

Personally I really can't get past the art style of the VN.

This guy really likes trying to troll starting debates. :P

What can I say I'm a top class shit poster who finds debates/discussions one of the easiest things to use to get to know people's tastes and sell that information to ad providers.... Errr I mean What? ;) But in all seriousness getting to know people's tastes and what not makes it easier for everyone sooner or later to recommend other related stuff and so on. Haha.

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Posted (edited)

Hard to say... I have done several routes and none have been very good so far (possible exception: Tomoyo but it's not really mind-boggling), so unless Clannad really surprises me with a fantastic revelation, much in a Little Busters way, it'll stay at a 6.5 rating, acceptable but not memorable.

It can't be a masterpiece when such a long and dragged VN is BOUND to have good routes; otherwise it's utter shit. It would be a masterpiece if all or the majority of the routes were good and meaningful.

So, I guess it won't steal the place Little Busters has in my heart: that drama, while sometimes cringey and all, it's really nice.

I for one don't really understand the people who get emotional with Misae's route: it isn't that good, and it hasn't that much substance. This is just an example of the content.

And yes, KyoAni's Kanon anime is the true religion

Edited by Okarin

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Clannad is a mixed bag if I've ever seen one.

I absolutely hate how it approaches its routes routes, but its approach, I believe, is what makes its tur ending make sense. Well, not sense, but it's some kind of emotional logic, foreign to the story or the characters, that you somehow accept because it makes everything worth it. I mean, I've recently played lots of those older VNs in Asenheim Project and they all play like Clannad, except they take themselves far less seriously. The notion of common route in Clannad is both ubiquitous and non-existent and that's how older VNs with lots of heroines apparently used to be. It's like Key thought, "we need to take this concept to further heights" but never bothered to understand the consequences of forcing everyone to play everything over and over even if it isn't really the same thing.

Also Kotomi's is one of my favourites routes in any VN ever.

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I forgot to mention one other important difference I found between the anime and the VN: the protagonist is basically non-existent in the VN, a typical faceless cipher protagonist. Even as he's pranking Sunohara or fixing up Kotomi's garden, I still barely felt like he was a character in the story. In contrast, in the anime, he's front-and-center, the star of the show and an absolute riot.

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I think when judging Clannad, it has to be considered how old this title really is. It was released in 2004, so it's about 13 years old now. I've read it just a few years ago when it was already about 10 years old and would have rated it a solid 7/10 at that time. But to be fair, if I would have read it ten years ago, it would have probably impressed me a lot more. Furthermore, Clannad is a school life nakige/moege which is nowadays amongst the most common VN's released in Japan, with most likely several dozen releases per year of varying quality. That means it has lots of competition by now.

So I think there's no shame for a 13 year old title, that significantly defined the whole genre, to be just 'solid average' anymore today.

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If Clannad were an RPG or some kind of ""real"" game, it would most likely have the same religious cultists as OoT, FFVII, etc. Calling it the "Best of the Average" might be fitting nowadays since, let's be honest here: Most try to copy it. Clannad might be as well be a cornerstone that created the Age of Moege Madness that is today. Sure, it is even more overrated than those pieces of S* Diss Iraq, SupaHippie & Cringaia combined, but it defined the standard of tastelesness that the modern VN fan values.

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5 hours ago, ChaosRaven said:

I think when judging Clannad, it has to be considered how old this title really is. It was released in 2004, so it's about 13 years old now. I've read it just a few years ago when it was already about 10 years old and would have rated it a solid 7/10 at that time. But to be fair, if I would have read it ten years ago, it would have probably impressed me a lot more. Furthermore, Clannad is a school life nakige/moege which is nowadays amongst the most common VN's released in Japan, with most likely several dozen releases per year of varying quality. That means it has lots of competition by now.

So I think there's no shame for a 13 year old title, that significantly defined the whole genre, to be just 'solid average' anymore today.

+1 good post

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Posted (edited)

I believe it is both. Worthy of its honours, but at the same time really overrated.

If you see my VNDB list, you'll see that I gave it a 10/10. But all the VNs there are graded for how I felt about them at the first time I read them and I don't plan to change their votes (1. Because I think the first reading is the most important. 2. Because I think that after reading other people's opinions, I might change my view about them too). If I were to change the grade now, I'd probably give it a 7/10. But even though I don't think it's as good as I first thought it was, it made a huge impression on me as my first VN I've ever read.

The main problem with Clannad is that it's probably impossible to be done with it without a walkthrough. 

But it still holds a special place at my heart and I always read again certain routes almost every year (and I cry every sigle time). I don't dislike any heroine in particular.

About it being overrated, well, I guess almost every work worshipped anywhere about anything is probably overrated (which doesn't change the fact that it's probably really good). Examples that comes to mind about VNs that are good, but extremelly overrated are, besides Clannad, Grisaia no Kajitsu, Island, Majikoi, Kara no Shoujo, etc. 

In fact, there are only two VNs that I've read that I really think are at the same time good and not overrated: Boku no Kanojo wa Gatenkei and Dies irae.

Edited by vkalvkal

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