tales of berseria question

[Novel21]

How good it's tales of berseria game? it's worth to buy tales of berseria game?

[Darklord Rooke]

It's the best Tales game released in a long time. It's miles better than their recent releases (Graces, Xillia, Zestiria) possibly as good or better than Vesperia. If you like Tales style RPGs you should enjoy Berseria. My sister loves the game :3

[Novel21]

Thank you for answer my question and I'm going to buy tales of berseria

[xGreyHound]

3 hours ago, Novel21 said:

Thank you for answer my question and I'm going to buy tales of berseria

I bought the collectors edition and got number 6/10K so I never opening it lul

[Kirashi]

3 hours ago, Darklord Rooke said:

It's the best Tales game released in a long time. It's miles better than their recent releases (Graces, Xillia, Zestiria) possibly as good or better than Vesperia. If you like Tales style RPGs you should enjoy Berseria. My sister loves the game :3

When you say as good or better than Vesperia, do you mean the gameplay or the story of Vesperia? Because playing the badass/pure hearted MC, going out or your town and saving the widow and the orphan, coincidently encountering and saving a princess, to save the world and beat the bad guys is not that extraordinary for a jrpg

Edited March 22, 2017 by Kirashi

[Clephas]

7 hours ago, Kirashi said:

When you say as good or better than Vesperia, do you mean the gameplay or the story of Vesperia? Because playing the badass/pure hearted MC, going out or your town and saving the widow and the orphan, coincidently encountering and saving a princess, to save the world and beat the bad guys is not that extraordinary for a jrpg

It is all around better than Vesperia... but Vesperia's Yuri was a Batman-style character... pure heart *snickers*

[Tyr]

Tales of Berseria is the worst Tales of game so far. It betrays the values of this long running series in order to cater to a young and shallow new generation of players by telling a nonsensical story with superficial themes and edgy characters. No wonder Baba resigned as the producer of the series.

[Novel21]

Ok I decide to ignore you and Tales of Berseria was not that bad

[Tyr]

I assumed you would like it. Most people do. But just because you like something doesn't mean it's actually good. And your initial question was whether it's good or not.

It's ironic that Vesperia and now Berseria are considered the "best" Tales of games when they are conceptually pretty "anti-Tales of". They go against Baba's vision who wanted to tell meaningful stories discussing important topics and philosophies and instead consist of shallow and morally disgusting power fantasies which is probably exactly what edgy teenager or chuunibyous want to indulge in, and that is why these games are so popular.
But are they actually good? Do gameplay and story advance this long-standing franchise adequately while being true to the series' traditions? For Berseria, the answer must clearly be no. And that is probably also the reason why you or many other people will have a blast playing the game.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Tyrosyn

[Okarin]

36 minutes ago, Tyrosyn said:

They go against Baba's vision who wanted to tell meaningful stories discussing important topics and philosophies and instead consist of shallow and morally disgusting power fantasies which is probably exactly what edgy teenager or chuunibyous want to indulge in,

Easier said than done... probably half the JRPG developers want to do that too. That they actually do is a completely different matter.

If I'm on the spot, Berseria tells a tale of vengeance and that's a pretty good story resource. Not exactly "Othello" material, but still.

[Novel21]

I so agree with Okarin on that

Sure Tales of Berseria it's not same as other Tales of games but I like when games are unique and different than other games  

[Tyr]

2 minutes ago, Okarin said:

If I'm on the spot, Berseria tells a tale of vengeance and that's a pretty good story resource. Not exactly "Othello" material, but still.

I'm actually a fan of revenge stories, one reason I like Korean cinema so much, and that is one of my main issues of Berseria; the reason for the vengeance doesn't make any sense. Especially because in the prologue

Spoiler

Laphi literally tells Velvet that he decided for himself to die in order to protect her. Like literally. That's exactly what he says. No coercion, no second thoughts. Just a boy who decided for himself what he wants to do with his life.

Which is literally what the core theme of the story is!

So essentially the reason for the vengeance is that the protagonist doesn't want to accept that somebody actually did exactly the one thing she believes in and fights for. Yeah, what? It doesn't make any sense. And how can you root for a character when the reasoning for her actions is so nonsensical?
This is especially infuriating because the story relies so much on principles and ideologies and instead of discussing them they are simply justified by a strong sense of passion you supposedly should have for them since your feelings can't be wrong, can they? But even if you try and not apply logic to it, the vengeance also falls flat on an emotional level.

Imagine somebody kills someone close to you and you want to get revenge. Of course, that is vigilante justice, but emotionally I'm on your side despite that. But then you carry out your revenge by killing innocent people ... wait, why are you doing that? It doesn't make any sense and I'm not emotionally attached to your cause anymore. And that is exactly what Berseria's revenge story consists of and why it doesn't work.

There is a trope in Japanese entertainment which got more popular in recent years: sacrificing humanity in order to save those close to you. It's mainly an edgy reaction to Japanese culture which deems the worth of the group higher than the worth of an individual. The trope isn't inherently bad and it can be used to tell great emotional stories. But recently, like with many initially good tropes, the stories surrounding this concept get dumber and dumber. The trope only works if the reader can emphasize with the characters and at least emotionally understand the reasoning for their actions, but nowadays it's used more in a.reactionary manner; the many are sacrificed not because there is an emotional reason, but mainly because the system isn't liked (for no other reason than being contrarian on principle) and the reader just wants to see the world burn.

I'm sorry, I already wrote too much. But after spending 150 hours with Berseria and really liking Tales of Zestiria and how it seriously discussed important themes and philosophies (I think Baba's vision was realized in this one the most), I'm really disappointed by how shallow Berseria is, how it's a disgrace for the vengeance-genre and how it looks down on its player by not even trying to make any sense at all, not even on an emotional level. That is, if you are not an edgy teenager who wants to see how badass characters (they are pretty emo) go against a supposedly evil system (it's not evil). I do not mean that as an insult*, we all were at least a little bit emo at some point in our life. But just because we were kinda stupid in this phase of our life doesn't mean that the entertainment that caters to this phase should be as stupid as we were. In fact, it should be intelligent, educate us and show us more than we wanted to see. That is what young adult fiction should be about and that was Baba's vision. And Tales of Berseria betrayed it. Hard.

*highlighted because I'm sure this rant appears very pretentious, but it's not meant to be that and instead really more a cry of a JRPG nerd who takes his hobby way too serious and wants to discuss it on the Internet

[Kurisu-Chan]

1 hour ago, Okarin said:

Easier said than done... probably half the JRPG developers want to do that too. That they actually do is a completely different matter.

If I'm on the spot, Berseria tells a tale of vengeance and that's a pretty good story resource. Not exactly "Othello" material, but still.

Othello is impossible to read for me, please, i tried it, it's too much. 

 

Comparing Shakespear with tales of...  

[Okarin]

2 hours ago, Kurisu-Chan said:

Othello is impossible to read for me, please, i tried it, it's too much. 

 

Comparing Shakespear with tales of...  

Go watch Lawrence Fishburne at the movie adaptation, it's great.

[Kurisu-Chan]

Just now, Okarin said:

Go watch Lawrence Fishburne at the movie adaptation, it's great.

Does it have ancient english or not?

Also, i don't think Lawrence Fishburne, looks like a Mauretanian, to me, i know, it's amazing...but black people have a shitton of different races, didn't you know? 

[Okarin]

2 hours ago, Tyrosyn said:

I'm actually a fan of revenge stories, one reason I like Korean cinema so much, and that is one of my main issues of Berseria; the reason for the vengeance doesn't make any sense. Especially because in the prologue

  Hide contents

Laphi literally tells Velvet that he decided for himself to die in order to protect her. Like literally. That's exactly what he says. No coercion, no second thoughts. Just a boy who decided for himself what he wants to do with his life.

Which is literally what the core theme of the story is!

So essentially the reason for the vengeance is that the protagonist doesn't want to accept that somebody actually did exactly the one thing she believes in and fights for. Yeah, what? It doesn't make any sense. And how can you root for a character when the reasoning for her actions is so nonsensical?
This is especially infuriating because the story relies so much on principles and ideologies and instead of discussing them they are simply justified by a strong sense of passion you supposedly should have for them since your feelings can't be wrong, can they? But even if you try and not apply logic to it, the vengeance also falls flat on an emotional level.

Imagine somebody kills someone close to you and you want to get revenge. Of course, that is vigilante justice, but emotionally I'm on your side despite that. But then you carry out your revenge by killing innocent people ... wait, why are you doing that? It doesn't make any sense and I'm not emotionally attached to your cause anymore. And that is exactly what Berseria's revenge story consists of and why it doesn't work.

There is a trope in Japanese entertainment which got more popular in recent years: sacrificing humanity in order to save those close to you. It's mainly an edgy reaction to Japanese culture which deems the worth of the group higher than the worth of an individual. The trope isn't inherently bad and it can be used to tell great emotional stories. But recently, like with many initially good tropes, the stories surrounding this concept get dumber and dumber. The trope only works if the reader can emphasize with the characters and at least emotionally understand the reasoning for their actions, but nowadays it's used more in a.reactionary manner; the many are sacrificed not because there is an emotional reason, but mainly because the system isn't liked (for no other reason than being contrarian on principle) and the reader just wants to see the world burn.

I'm sorry, I already wrote too much. But after spending 150 hours with Berseria and really liking Tales of Zestiria and how it seriously discussed important themes and philosophies (I think Baba's vision was realized in this one the most), I'm really disappointed by how shallow Berseria is, how it's a disgrace for the vengeance-genre and how it looks down on its player by not even trying to make any sense at all, not even on an emotional level. That is, if you are not an edgy teenager who wants to see how badass characters (they are pretty emo) go against a supposedly evil system (it's not evil). I do not mean that as an insult*, we all were at least a little bit emo at some point in our life. But just because we were kinda stupid in this phase of our life doesn't mean that the entertainment that caters to this phase should be as stupid as we were. In fact, it should be intelligent, educate us and show us more than we wanted to see. That is what young adult fiction should be about and that was Baba's vision. And Tales of Berseria betrayed it. Hard.

*highlighted because I'm sure this rant appears very pretentious, but it's not meant to be that and instead really more a cry of a JRPG nerd who takes his hobby way too serious and wants to discuss it on the Internet

You may be right, but still some people can differ.

Actually, I have Zestiria on my library and Berseria on my wishlist, so lucky me (as per your point of view).

At least Berseria ensured a future for the franchise (I think it sold pretty well), but of course, for some it's a lost cause. This thing happens all the time: old players give up on a franchise and new ones pick it up.

[Okarin]

3 minutes ago, Kurisu-Chan said:

Does it have ancient english or not?

Also, i don't think Lawrence Fishburne, looks like a Mauretanian, to me, i know, it's amazing...but black people have a shitton of different races, didn't you know? 

No, it's a movie from the 90s I think. I recall I saw it on English class (subtitles of course, it was high school).

I know about the blacks. I like Larry as an actor, so I don't mind. He was chosen for the job for other reasons than convicingly impersonating Othello.

[Kurisu-Chan]

1 minute ago, Okarin said:

No, it's a movie from the 90s I think. I recall I saw it on English class (subtitles of course, it was high school).

I know about the blacks. I like Larry as an actor, so I don't mind. He was chosen for the job for other reasons than convicingly impersonating Othello.

But nowadays the anti-SJW people always use the excuse of "not correct depiction" and political correctness, whenever something they don't like is on screen.

 

Also i love Lawrence Fishburne, this was more of a joke than anyything. 

[Sovapex]

4 hours ago, Tyrosyn said:

I'm actually a fan of revenge stories, one reason I like Korean cinema so much, and that is one of my main issues of Berseria; the reason for the vengeance doesn't make any sense. Especially because in the prologue

  Reveal hidden contents

Laphi literally tells Velvet that he decided for himself to die in order to protect her. Like literally. That's exactly what he says. No coercion, no second thoughts. Just a boy who decided for himself what he wants to do with his life.

Which is literally what the core theme of the story is!

So essentially the reason for the vengeance is that the protagonist doesn't want to accept that somebody actually did exactly the one thing she believes in and fights for. Yeah, what? It doesn't make any sense. And how can you root for a character when the reasoning for her actions is so nonsensical?
This is especially infuriating because the story relies so much on principles and ideologies and instead of discussing them they are simply justified by a strong sense of passion you supposedly should have for them since your feelings can't be wrong, can they? But even if you try and not apply logic to it, the vengeance also falls flat on an emotional level.

Imagine somebody kills someone close to you and you want to get revenge. Of course, that is vigilante justice, but emotionally I'm on your side despite that. But then you carry out your revenge by killing innocent people ... wait, why are you doing that? It doesn't make any sense and I'm not emotionally attached to your cause anymore. And that is exactly what Berseria's revenge story consists of and why it doesn't work.

There is a trope in Japanese entertainment which got more popular in recent years: sacrificing humanity in order to save those close to you. It's mainly an edgy reaction to Japanese culture which deems the worth of the group higher than the worth of an individual. The trope isn't inherently bad and it can be used to tell great emotional stories. But recently, like with many initially good tropes, the stories surrounding this concept get dumber and dumber. The trope only works if the reader can emphasize with the characters and at least emotionally understand the reasoning for their actions, but nowadays it's used more in a.reactionary manner; the many are sacrificed not because there is an emotional reason, but mainly because the system isn't liked (for no other reason than being contrarian on principle) and the reader just wants to see the world burn.

I'm sorry, I already wrote too much. But after spending 150 hours with Berseria and really liking Tales of Zestiria and how it seriously discussed important themes and philosophies (I think Baba's vision was realized in this one the most), I'm really disappointed by how shallow Berseria is, how it's a disgrace for the vengeance-genre and how it looks down on its player by not even trying to make any sense at all, not even on an emotional level. That is, if you are not an edgy teenager who wants to see how badass characters (they are pretty emo) go against a supposedly evil system (it's not evil). I do not mean that as an insult*, we all were at least a little bit emo at some point in our life. But just because we were kinda stupid in this phase of our life doesn't mean that the entertainment that caters to this phase should be as stupid as we were. In fact, it should be intelligent, educate us and show us more than we wanted to see. That is what young adult fiction should be about and that was Baba's vision. And Tales of Berseria betrayed it. Hard.

*highlighted because I'm sure this rant appears very pretentious, but it's not meant to be that and instead really more a cry of a JRPG nerd who takes his hobby way too serious and wants to discuss it on the Internet

Okay, so I get you're saying that it's the worst 'Tales Of' game of all time, which is like saying dog turds are the worst type of turds of all time IMO, so you're not technically saying it's a bad game. Regardless, some of the stuff you say don't make any sense. First off, I want to point out that your use of the word 'edgy' just muddies your argument and kind of infuriates me. It's a meaningless buzzword with negative connotations that clearly color the things you're saying in a negative light. It seems way more suited to the supposed grimdark young audience you seem to reject. Plus, you seem to use it as if it's supposed to fill holes in your argument by it's negative connotations alone. 

You seem to fundamentally misunderstand, or refuse to acknowledge, that Velvet at the beginning of the game (I'm talking about Prison onwards) is not supposed to be likable at all. She does, indeed, place revenge as her highest priority and is willing to let loose chaos in order to make that happen. It's a scummy thing to do. That being said, her lust for revenge makes perfect sense, and I'm not sure why you don't acknowledge that. 
Yeah, Laphifelt fine with suiciding in order to save people. It's a logical leap to assume Velvet shouldn't be furious with him and Artorius for doing that shiz, though. You don't just sit around and sip on your starbucks coffee whilst your little brother ties a noose around the rafters. Are you really saying it doesn't make sense that Velvet is angry that this happened? I mean, I'm sorry dude, that's stupid. As far as she's concerned, Artorius killed Laphi, and whilst there's nuance to that, taking something as irreplaceable as a loved one from your life and then sitting down and having a cool discussion about it is not something a lot of people can do. 
Laphi v.2's existence, in large part, seems to revolve around appealing to Velvet's moral side. He is who you should be rooting for to bring Velvet back to her senses. Of course, if you've already written her off for reasons as nonsensical as the ones you listed, then his character probably won't be effective at all.

You seem to really want to push this idea that the game is just catering to 'Edgy' audiences, and therefore the writing is 'Edgy', and the philosophy is 'edgy' and therefore the entire game is 'edgy' and is a bad tales game because, you know, 'edge'. And this thing you talk about, this Baba and his philosophy? I've played Tales games since Symphonia, and the philosophy is always pretentious and lame. I dropped Zestiria, so maybe it did that better, but that game was trash in and of itself. All my opinion, of course. 

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Sovapex

[Funnerific]

12 hours ago, Tyrosyn said:

-------------------------------

 

7 hours ago, Sovapex said:

-------------------------------

 

Spoiler

I'd like to add that Laphi, being just a child, couldn't really make a weighted decision of that level, therefore we can say that Artorius killed him by taking advantage of him. Let's not forget he sacrificed Velvet's sister, too.

 

[Strike105X]

I absolutely loved tales of berseria, I haven't enjoyed a jrpg so much in years, or better said since i played The Legend of Dragoon. In fact it became my favorite jrpg. It won me over since the first trailer and i preordered as soon as it was possible on pc. I only preordered 2 times in my life to be honest and this was well worth it.

[Okarin]

Either way, everyone is free to like or dislike Berseria.

Didn't Clint Eastwood say that "opinions are like asses, we all have one"?

[kyrt]

On 3/23/2017 at 5:08 AM, Okarin said:

Either way, everyone is free to like or dislike Berseria.

Didn't Clint Eastwood say that "opinions are like asses, we all have one"?

pretty sure it was assholes.

Personally I'm really enjoying Berseria but it's been put on the backlog until I finish Mass Effect Andromeda and Persona 5.