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Scasma

Is buying/playing a censored game worth it?

26 posts in this topic

Sorry if this is in the wrong board, and too long, but I thought this was a serious enough question to warrant asking. 

I would like to ask you this: is buying and playing a commercially released censored title really worth it? Specifically the ones with no sort of patch for them? I was wondering this myself because I have not been able to bring myself to play the censored version of a visual novel, regardless if it is officially or fan translated. The thing is, when I pay for these games, I feel as if I am telling the companies they had a job well done. I feel as if I am rewarding them for censoring games.

When it comes to what I, individually, can do about visual novel censorship, it is not very much. If a company releases a previously untranslated game censored only, with no option to play the original version, should I still pay for the game? Or would that tell the localization companies that I will buy their titles no matter what, so it doesn't matter what they do? What if the game is supposedly really good? Do I forgo ever playing it, opting for an incomplete experience? What are our thoughts? I just don't want to miss out on any good stories for because of unfounded logic.

Edit: I am asking this because the only thing companies are obligated to care about is your money. Pay for a product, and they will consider their product successful. I am just wondering if I would be screwing myself over by paying for an incomplete title, or alternatively, if my fears are unfounded and I am just missing out on a mass of great titles.

Also, I am fine with releasing an all-ages version of a title. I encourage that, since it broadens the audience of who can/is willing to play these games. What I dislike is when the original version isn't available, as this is limiting my freedom of choice and says that because some people will only/can only play this game censored, everybody must play it censored. This can be a scary prospect, especially considering something like ~80-90% of Visual Novels are Eroge. 

Edited by Scasma
Clarification

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Not only is it porn, the majority of H scenes (axed or not axed) are pretty badly narrated, or boring vanilla intercourse. You know... like... porn.

If you really feel this should be in your game, by all means boycott the censored release. In truth it's all up to you and nobody should judge you.

For example, Littlewitch Romanesque: I think that having underage sex is too much for me. I'd only buy it if I wanted to play a raising sim, which I'm uncertain of, because I don't know the genre that well. But, since they have sales on Steam, I'd go for that (pornless) version, if I wanted to buy it. Since I'm not interested in the original porn.

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Well, it depends on where you stand on eroge content being censored to begin with. If you're just looking for a good read without eroge content, then yes, it may be worth it. If you're a diehard eroge fan who doesn't like eroge content being censored, then no, it is not worth it. Most of the censorship is just towards the eroge content without affecting the stories much anyway. The only exceptions are heroine routes that rely purely on eroge content to tell their stories (ex: Amane's route in The Fruit of Grisaia), so chances are that their routes will likely have major changes to their stories and characters just to keep the content censored, so these are the things you should look out for.

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This is a very subjective topic. Some people, like you can see in some responses above, sees very little value in H content to begin with, and won't care much. Others, however, might be more torn like yourself, as they don't like the idea of supporting censorship. 

I agree with you on the fact that when only the censored version and nothing else is available, it is better to voice your dissatisfaction. Whether you bite the bullet and buy it or not is up to you, though.This will still give some money to the original creators, not to mention TLers/ editors etc, so you should not feel bad for buying the game. But, you should definitely make it known, (in a polite manner,) that you prefer the original version over the censored one. If people speak up, then there is a higher chance the company might reconsider next time around. Make a poll on their website, tweet them or something along those lines. 

If we look at examples like Sharin no Kuni from last year, you can see that speaking up about it does indeed make a difference. 

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There are some eroge that revolve more around H content (maybe because the story is run-of-the-mill or downright bad, maybe they have amateur or cheap writers... maybe the heroines are just really hot), while there are some that don't.

For example, I guess nobody would really miss the H scenes from Kanon if we removed them. Would it be censure? Of course, but the game wouldn't be significantly mutilated, in fact you'd only save some minutes of reading bad H scenes. They're completely insubstantial and even impromptu.

Edited by Okarin

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I would buy a proper Japanese All-Ages version, but never something censored by Westerners where they just cut everything that goes against our good christian beliefs :yumiko:

For example there are some nice All-Ages VNs on PS2, but when you look on steam you will see censored shit like この大空に、翼をひろげて or 忠臣蔵46+1 where they even fucked up the engine :badnicoman:

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1 minute ago, Ningen said:

I would buy a proper Japanese All-Ages version, but never something censored by Westerners where they just cut everything that goes against our good christian beliefs :yumiko:

For example there are some nice All-Ages VNs on PS2, but when you look on steam you will see censored shit like この大空に、翼をひろげて or 忠臣蔵46+1 where they even fucked up the engine :badnicoman:

i smell a happy dergonu incoming.

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I love H scenes in games and I can't stand the fact that Japan is still stuck with its laws regarding censorship. However I've bought heaps of censored games from Japan because they have no other choice whereas for Western releases, I flatly refuse to purchase anything that was (censored) hardcore in Japanese but was either toned down or left censored for the Western release because there they have a choice and that's when I feel as you said "rewarding them for" making censored releases. I'd rather encourage the industry to do the right thing (as I see it). The Japan censorship situation really can't be helped from here but I still feel it's important to support the original source of the art for the industry that I love.

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It's usually utter crap forcefully shoveled in to crank some sale, I personally consider eroscene removal as polishing/refining/whatever, not censorship, unless we are talking about some peculiar games that rely on the sex for the narrative, like Subarashiki Hibi.

Edited by WinterfuryZX
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To clarify, this topic is about censoring a product in that, comparatively to the original Japanese version, it has less or replaced content, correct? It is not about the censorship inherently contained in the fact that the Japanese, and consequently some Western, Visual Novels utilise mosaics, right?

On this topic, I will basically always support a censored release simply because I do not care much for H-Scenes, and those are typically the target of censorship.
Assuming that I took a stance where I am against a censored release, I understand why you might want to boycott a product in order to 'send a message'. In this case, I'd generally recommend you do your research and learn about the surrounding circumstances. For example,

  • It is possible the censored release is an extended all ages version, with extra content (routes and/or characters), and that the publisher opted to localise in light of which.
  • It is possible that the Japanese company may not allow the publisher to localise erotic content for whatever reason (they may want to prove there's an established fanbase by releasing a few, less problematic, all ages titles first or they may want to avoid possible trouble at all by playing it safe).
  • It is possible that if the publisher were to try and release an uncensored version of certain titles they would be at risk of criminal persecution (for example, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that releasing an uncensored Maitetsu could put both staff and owners of the Visual Novel at risk, depending on the country).

How justifiable you find these circumstances as well as who you're trying to send a message to (staff, publisher/localiser, Japanese company) are important factors towards making your ultimate decision as a consumer: Whether you buy the product or not.

As I've said before, I want to convey the message that, at any cost (or almost any cost -- circumstances vary), I want Visual Novels to be released in the West, in any state. More choice for the consumer is better, and I might support a company for good practices even when my interest in the actual product is slim at best, but I prioritise bringing visual novels over.

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My opinion is this.

Is the censorship a CHOICE or a NEED.

Let me explain. Some companies must "Censor" their games due to countries own terms. Japan has much more lenient rules about things such as nudity and scenarios then NA or Europe does. As such, if a game has things that go against their rules, a company must make changes in order to sell it.

Criminal girls is an example of a game that passed in Japan but needed editing to be able to be released in NA. Other games have had this happen as well. To get through things such as ESRB Changes must be made.

These games I do not boycott.

However games where there was a decision to change things such as story, scenes, interpretations due to society is something that I do boycott. Take Fire Emblem Fates for instance, huge cutting of scenes and script changes were made for, literally, no reason.

These games I do boycott.

 

In regards to VN's, most of the time it's a decision due to selling on a platform and to sell to the max number of people. Those who are interested in an uncensored version can usually find patches. And most of the times the companies don't care. If they were actively against those things they would try to take down that stuff to keep it "Censored."

Edited by TheUnknownMercenary

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I'm fine with a censored version in theory, as long as their a noticeable price reduction to the product. The company is essentially selling you an inferior version of their product and I have never seen a censored game in which the cut content is replaced with anything equal to the removed content. 

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I wouldn't say it's worth it. Mostly because of the possible regret you get afterwards. I would've never bought Aselia if I knew it was inferior version (and now there is even Special edition with all ages content and original combined).

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I don't care for censorship. In a perfect world we wouldn't need such a thing. But then can we really all agree on what a perfect world looks like? It's also an oversimplification to assume any censorship is a form of thought policing. At the same time assuming someone was exploited as inspiration for VN artwork is bordering on FUD I think. I digress and that wasn't really what the OP was asking... I think.

As far as western translations go I'm usually fine with cut H-scenes but start closing my wallet if there's too much cut content. That is to say story. I'm especially annoyed when they try to remove any hint that something happened off screen. Or the removal of jokes, etc. All in all it's a case by case judgment. Which is why the inevitable knee jerk steam threads boycotting a title w/o a patch annoy me. Many times it doesn't even make sense because there wasn't any H material to begin with.

As others of said most H-scenes are especially bad anyways. I wish more VN's adopted the less is more stance and left more to the readers imagination. Also more lovemaking less bumping uglies to put it in crude terms. The internet is for porn anyways.

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17 hours ago, Okarin said:

For example, Littlewitch Romanesque: I think that having underage sex is too much for me. I'd only buy it if I wanted to play a raising sim, which I'm uncertain of, because I don't know the genre that well. But, since they have sales on Steam, I'd go for that (pornless) version, if I wanted to buy it. Since I'm not interested in the original porn.

The game isn't really a raising sim.  Those are highly repetitive games featuring a few events that are repeated over and over, in order to raise stats.  Littlewitch Romanesque eliminates the repetitive events in favor of a nice minigame, but more importantly, it is crammed full of story events.  Learning a new spell or completing a quest always has a unique event associated with it.  There are a lot of other unique events that pop up as the game goes on.  The main problem with raising sims is that outside of the core gameplay loop (picking a schedule and seeing the same few events over and over) there often aren't many unique events.  I definitely recommend the all-ages version of Littlewitch Romanesque, if you've got a problem with the artstyle.  (They're not technically underage at the time you sleep with them, but that really doesn't help very much.)

 

As for the OP, basically this is the way I think of it.  When you buy a game, you are sending a message:  do this some more.  I am not a very big proponent of censorship; I remember what things were like in the bad old days of Nintendo heavily bowdlerizing any and everything.  Of Playstation 1 RPGs being heavily altered to remove references to drinking and so on.  They sucked, and I'm not on board with them coming back.  I don't mind small alterations to games, but I do mind major changes.  Generally removing h-scenes qualifies as a major change, but it doesn't have to.  For example, Chou Dengeki Stryker is basically better off without the h-scenes.  The problem is that it's hard to tell whether I'll mind the censorship before I buy the game, so I tend to lean away from buying censored things.  The big exception to this is anything censored for legal reasons.  If the people releasing the game are worried about going to jail unless they change something, well, I still don't like it, but I understand.

Ultimately, there are no right or wrong answers here.  Some people try to make it a moral issue; I suppose it is, when you get down to it, but the problem is it's squarely within a grey zone.  The line can be drawn more or less anywhere you want to draw it.  Personally, I bought Aselia from Jast USA, and I don't regret it.  I wasn't happy the adult version wasn't brought over, but I understand, and I'm okay with what we got.  But I'd never consider buying If My Heart had Wings, or Wild Romance.  Other people don't have a problem with censorship at all.  They aren't wrong, they just don't have the same priorities.  Still others are vehemently opposed to any censorship whatsoever, to the point they think charging more for adult versions is wrong.  I think this is kind of silly, personally, but I could never prove it.

My advice for the OP is to decide on your own principles, whatever they are, and then research titles to make sure you don't buy any that are on the wrong side of them.  How much does censorship bother you?  No one else can answer that for you.

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I lot of you are of the opinion that the censorship more or less doesn't matter because it doesn't impact the story at all. What especially stood out to me was the response "Basically, it's just porn" (Kurisu-Chan, 2). This is where my opinion differs from many of yours, and why I am so torn when the answers for others is so clear. 

To most people, the hentai scenes in these games is simply there for titillation, and adds no emotional impact to the story. The same thing could be accomplished through the use of a pornographic OVA on HentaiHaven. My opinion is very different from that, so before I say what I am thinking and why I believe that to be the case, I want you to understand that I am not insane

If any of you have ever played Steins;Gate, you'll get to a scene in the very beginning where Okabe buys his childhood friend a toy. From the way they interact, you immediately understand how close they are to each other. They are able to relay this feeling to you while maintaining the natural flow of the conversation so that it never feels forced. If they took this scene out of the visual novel, most people wouldn't be very happy. It is a small scene, less than 2 minutes, but has a huge impact when establishing the relationship the two characters have.

Apply this to hentai scenes. I have never played a visual novel (that is not a nukige) where the hentai scenes had little to no impact on the emotional tone of the story. You can go to my VNDB page to see the visual novels I have played. Keep in mind, I am very comfortable talking about sex. I was able to go to my parents and blatantly ask them about sex, and how it worked, when I was a child. In the west, sex is a very uncomfortable topic. People feel very awkward talking about it, and it is treated as something that, although everyone thinks about it, nobody should admit to thinking about it. It is considered dirty and thought to be incapable of adding to the value of art.

So far I have established that, for me, hentai scenes in fact do have a significant impact beyond mere titillation. I have only begun to explain why that is the case for me, and must do so, as my opinion is so outlandish to some that I do seem insane. I have watched hentai OVA's, porn, and played a few nukiges before. And I tend to get bored and don't usually finish (which is why I browse image sited for that sort of thing instead). Sex in real life, however, is unlike porn in the fact that is is heavily emotionally charged. We have sex with people we love, and it tends to come after the relationship buds and grows to a significant extent. What I am amazed by is how there are so few stories that capture sex this way. Porn cannot capture sex in this fashion, as relationships and meaningful sex takes time to grow. Visual novels, however, are the perfect fit for this. They tend to tell long-form stories, giving time to bring the reader and protagonist closer to the characters. Because these are not TV shows, they are not aired on TV and are able to be explicit about sex. This enables Visual Novels to show two people at one of their closest moments with each other. Visual novels are able to describe what characters feel during these close times, and can get infinitely more intimate because of this. Subtlety is important, but it is not the only way, not often the best way, to tell this type of scene. 

And this is why  I think H-scenes are so awkward to many people, and why they seem so badly written. I argue that much of the reason these scenes feel so awkward to read is because people simply feel uncomfortable about sex. Admittedly, a lot of the time these scenes are simply placed into the story, and don't hold up to the narrative flow of the rest of the VN. But this doesn't mean that they can't have great emotional impact even when they are awkward. Sex in real life is awkward (the manga Futari Ecchi is a perfect fictional example of this).

The sex scenes are censored in the west because they are thought to not add value to the story. This is a cultural thing, and reflects the way we think about sex. Many people feel as if the sex in the story brings no emotional impact to them, and I argue that this is because sex is inherently very intimate. In order to be affected by a sex scene, one needs to be very comfortable with the idea of sex and thinking about it intimately, as they are about to see to characters engage in it in a very intimate manner. If one is distracted by their own discomfort, they won't be affected by the intimacy the characters are feeling, and the emotional value of that scene will be lost upon that person. I do believe this is why so many people think of the sex scenes as simply porographic, when I do believe they are many times more, even when awkwardly written.

Taking all of the above into context, if sex scenes do have a dense emotional impact relative to the story, would it still be worth buying them?

 

Reading Nandemonai's post, this seems to be very much the way I view censorship. Thank you for posting.

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8 minutes ago, Scasma said:

The sex scenes are censored in the west because they are thought to not add value to the story.

I disagree. I mean why do movies add token sex in action movies? They tend to be not overly explicit but they are there because audiences like romance. Some of them even manage to be less than frivolous. Sometimes. Maybe. Well anyways, I think the demand for such things is well known. The need for censorship usually comes down to the age of the characters.

I'm not sure I agree with you on the emotional content of the average H-scene though. They tend to be formulaic fetish fulfillment. Though I certainly agree they have a chance at creating a less cheesy scene than your average porn. How many actually succeed? I dunno. I have to read more I suppose. Depends.

At any rate it sounds like you've already made up your mind that H-scenes are important to you. So there's your answer.

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I don't like H scenes because I'm close-minded about sex, and you are exceptionally open-minded about it? Haha, that was great, I tell you.

If anything, I'd be close-minded about porn.

It has been long understood that H scenes are there to reward the player for reading so far. Of course, in romance novels, they fit well. And knowing that the Japanese otaku are a lonely bunch, apart from the fact that there are many moe novels, the game makers try to address their demands, and their fantasies.

A lot of visual novels are unrealistic, not only in the H, and try to pander to the audience. Nothing wrong with that if you strictly separate real life and VNs.

About the H scenes themselves, they usually happen eventually, they show you intercourse, and then they are over, as quick as they began. In most cases characters don't talk about the deed afterwards. They are there more for the player than for storytelling purposes.

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I just don't like paying for an incomplete game

 

23 hours ago, pual said:

I wouldn't say it's worth it. Mostly because of the possible regret you get afterwards. I would've never bought Aselia if I knew it was inferior version (and now there is even Special edition with all ages content and original combined).

The second one?

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I said that those who dislike H-scenes are most likely doing so because the culture they grew up in probably taught them to be less comfortable about sex. I said this because based on my limited understanding of the world, the information i gathered led me to conclude that. When I said this, I wasn't emotionally charged, and was not thinking of any of you in a condescending fashion. I simply attempted to infer how and why you guys hold the opinions you do, and based on that, made the most logical assumption I could. I may very well be wrong. I am not in any of your heads, and have no idea if I am right. I am completely fine with any of you holding a different stance on H-scenes, and if you feel my guess on why so many people don't like H-scenes is wrong, at least in relation to you, feel free to tell me. I honestly have no idea if I'm right or not. I can only guess.

the reason why I wrote all that (yes, all of it), was because I wanted to solve this dilemma of mine by getting you to understand how I think of these scenes. Most H-scenes are badly written. I am not blind to that. Bizarrely, they actually do bring me closer to the characters, and I do end up enjoying the VN more. this is not because I am lonely, have no life, or simply think with my penis too much. I just think differently than most people. I guess I should change my question a little.

If several random scenes were taken out of a game, them being your average character building *spending time with characters* schlick, would you pay for the game? i don't mean would I buy it, but would you, personally, and why.

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11 minutes ago, Scasma said:

I said that those who dislike H-scenes are most likely doing so because the culture they grew up in probably taught them to be less comfortable about sex. I said this because based on my limited understanding of the world, the information i gathered led me to conclude that. When I said this, I wasn't emotionally charged, and was not thinking of any of you in a condescending fashion. I simply attempted to infer how and why you guys hold the opinions you do, and based on that, made the most logical assumption I could. I may very well be wrong. I am not in any of your heads, and have no idea if I am right. I am completely fine with any of you holding a different stance on H-scenes, and if you feel my guess on why so many people don't like H-scenes is wrong, at least in relation to you, feel free to tell me. I honestly have no idea if I'm right or not. I can only guess.

the reason why I wrote all that (yes, all of it), was because I wanted to solve this dilemma of mine by getting you to understand how I think of these scenes. Most H-scenes are badly written. I am not blind to that. Bizarrely, they actually do bring me closer to the characters, and I do end up enjoying the VN more. this is not because I am lonely, have no life, or simply think with my penis too much. I just think differently than most people. I guess I should change my question a little.

If several random scenes were taken out of a game, them being your average character building *spending time with characters* schlick, would you pay for the game? i don't mean would I buy it, but would you, personally, and why.

I would apply the exact system as in my earlier post. Why were they removed? If there is a justifiable reason, then I don't hold it against the company and will purchase their title.

...What I just said was a lie. So long as the complete product felt wholesome and cohesive, I'd probably still buy it. My stance on censorship isn't too strong. Of course, there isn't really much of a way to know whether it feels complete or not, hence me applying the system earlier described.

----

As for your analysis on my views on sex, I found it to be the opposite. As my family was always rather open and transparent about sex (and one branch is particularly perverted), I've always been been something of a prude. These days I'm used to H-Scenes in VNs, but find myself uninterested in a vast majority of them, simply opting to skip them instead of reading all that fluff.

One interesting fact: I generally prefer that they exist, even if I don't read them, as they're one of the most tangible forms to show love.
For some reason, I have more difficulty recalling the romantic elements of all ages titles, making me feel they lacked them at all. Which is wrong. When I do play them they are there, clear as day.

----

I find your view on H-Scenes to be the most common one, actually. Which is why it kind of surprised me to see that just about everyone that isn't interested in H-Scenes popped out of the woodwork just to comment here.

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22 minutes ago, Scasma said:

I said that those who dislike H-scenes are most likely doing so because the culture they grew up in probably taught them to be less comfortable about sex. I said this because based on my limited understanding of the world, the information i gathered led me to conclude that. When I said this, I wasn't emotionally charged, and was not thinking of any of you in a condescending fashion. I simply attempted to infer how and why you guys hold the opinions you do, and based on that, made the most logical assumption I could. I may very well be wrong. I am not in any of your heads, and have no idea if I am right. I am completely fine with any of you holding a different stance on H-scenes, and if you feel my guess on why so many people don't like H-scenes is wrong, at least in relation to you, feel free to tell me. I honestly have no idea if I'm right or not. I can only guess.

the reason why I wrote all that (yes, all of it), was because I wanted to solve this dilemma of mine by getting you to understand how I think of these scenes. Most H-scenes are badly written. I am not blind to that. Bizarrely, they actually do bring me closer to the characters, and I do end up enjoying the VN more. this is not because I am lonely, have no life, or simply think with my penis too much. I just think differently than most people. I guess I should change my question a little.

If several random scenes were taken out of a game, them being your average character building *spending time with characters* schlick, would you pay for the game? i don't mean would I buy it, but would you, personally, and why.

That's because in moege, h-scenes are actually used for relationship development, often very lazily. Amid all the moans and squelches, you'll hear a sudden barrage of "I love you"s and then the protagonist has an emotional epiphany over a few lines, before the moans and squelches start up again. This may happen for both characters, often in the first h-scene of the route. They also may develop the dynamic of who's in control of the relationship here and that kind of thing. It's lazy because they often forgo relationship development outside the h-scenes. They use the sex as a crutch so they don't have to build up a romantic and/or emotional mood outside of sex and probably the confession scene or whatever. 

The problem is that when you remove h-scenes from games that use them as a crutch, they end up predictably falling apart. The routes have that empty feeling to them because the relationships feel underdeveloped. That's completely valid to criticise when it happens, too. This leads to people saying that sex scenes in general are necessary for proper relationship development, but on the contrary, I feel like stories that don't use sex as a crutch often have stronger relationship development overall. Himawari is a good, recent example of this, in my opinion. The all-ages version doesn't have the h-scenes, obviously, but it barely matters because the way the characters and relationships develop still feels fairly natural. They also left in anything important in the lead-up and aftermath of the sex scenes. Because indeed, it's often the stuff that leads to sex and happens as a result of sex that's far more important to relationships than the sex itself. Himawari was written with that in mind, is much better for it, and loses nothing when you remove the actual sex.

Going back to the original question posed, I do prefer to read the uncensored original version whenever possible. But I'm not gonna hand-wring over it if I can't. It's often just not that big of a deal.

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10 hours ago, Decay said:

That's because in moege, h-scenes are actually used for relationship development, often very lazily. Amid all the moans and squelches, you'll hear a sudden barrage of "I love you"s and then the protagonist has an emotional epiphany over a few lines, before the moans and squelches start up again. This may happen for both characters, often in the first h-scene of the route. They also may develop the dynamic of who's in control of the relationship here and that kind of thing. It's lazy because they often forgo relationship development outside the h-scenes. They use the sex as a crutch so they don't have to build up a romantic and/or emotional mood outside of sex and probably the confession scene or whatever. 

The problem is that when you remove h-scenes from games that use them as a crutch, they end up predictably falling apart. The routes have that empty feeling to them because the relationships feel underdeveloped. That's completely valid to criticise when it happens, too. This leads to people saying that sex scenes in general are necessary for proper relationship development, but on the contrary, I feel like stories that don't use sex as a crutch often have stronger relationship development overall. Himawari is a good, recent example of this, in my opinion. The all-ages version doesn't have the h-scenes, obviously, but it barely matters because the way the characters and relationships develop still feels fairly natural. They also left in anything important in the lead-up and aftermath of the sex scenes. Because indeed, it's often the stuff that leads to sex and happens as a result of sex that's far more important to relationships than the sex itself. Himawari was written with that in mind, is much better for it, and loses nothing when you remove the actual sex.

Going back to the original question posed, I do prefer to read the uncensored original version whenever possible. But I'm not gonna hand-wring over it if I can't. It's often just not that big of a deal.

Wow. I think I agree with everything you have said. Part of the reason why I was more concerned over the removal of H-scenes than you are is that I haven't played much Visual Novels before. Of the ten or so I have played, Saya no Uta and School Days HQ both had sex as a very critical part of the story. they were also very well written, and never used it as a crutch for the narrative. I was amazed that these stories could handle this topic in a mature way, so when I hear about censorship in gaming, I tend to be afraid that they are going to take a VN that is well written, and has figured out how to incorporate sex into it (consequences and all), and butcher it. I don't know how many games there are out there that actually use H-scenes properly, so I can be pretty paranoid about it. According to you guys though, they seem to choose censoring VN's that don't know how to properly integrate sex into its story. So I may not need to be as paranoid as I am. As long as another Song of Saya doesn't come out with half the game missing (because I like that game).

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