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upcastdrake

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17 hours ago, upcastdrake said:

This is where stuff gets fun. I figure I have two options: get some people who know English and throw shit at the wall with machine translation and editing, or by the grace of God get the attention of some people who can actually translate Japanese.

The second is ideal, but I'm planning for the first.

Please do not do the first, I beg of you. Machine translation is not something we accept here, and for good reason. You'll just waste everyone's time with that.

I strongly recommend contacting Aroduc personally. That is probably your best bet for ever getting this done.

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43 minutes ago, Decay said:

Please do not do the first, I beg of you. Machine translation is not something we accept here, and for good reason. You'll just waste everyone's time with that.

I strongly recommend contacting Aroduc personally. That is probably your best bet for ever getting this done.

I sent him a PM. We'll see what happens. If nothing comes of it and no translators volunteer I plan on going ahead with the first option though. If it's not up to par then people don't have to play it.

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What's the point of doing it at all if it's "not up to par"?  I'd argue that it would do more harm than good, as it would make it a lot less likely that someone that could accurately translate it would pick it up.  Things like the KonoSora retranslation project are the exception, not the norm.  Most people willing to translate a VN don't seem to see much of a point in touching something that's already received a translation, regardless of the quality.

Having read part of a machine translation, quite frankly, they're fucking garbage.  They butcher the original meaning to the point where it's not even the same script, and no amount of editing can fix it.  Even if you fix the sentences in English, they'll still be translated improperly, and that can change the story from what it was intended to be.

Please, don't go through with this.

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1 minute ago, Zenophilious said:

What's the point of doing it at all if it's "not up to par"?  I'd argue that it would do more harm than good, as it would make it a lot less likely that someone that could accurately translate it would pick it up.  Things like the KonoSora retranslation project are the exception, not the norm.  Most people willing to translate a VN don't seem to see much of a point in touching something that's already received a translation, regardless of the quality.

Having read part of a machine translation, quite frankly, they're fucking garbage.  They butcher the original meaning to the point where it's not even the same script, and no amount of editing can fix it.  Even if you fix the sentences in English, they'll still be translated improperly, and that can change the story from what it was intended to be.

Please, don't go through with this.

The point isn't to do it not up to par. If everyone is against it, I'll just do it as a personal project I guess.

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15 minutes ago, upcastdrake said:

The point isn't to do it not up to par. If everyone is against it, I'll just do it as a personal project I guess.

No offense, but if you're using machine translation, it won't be up to par.  It's not really a question of whether or not it'll be bad, it's more about just how bad it'll end up being.

You can do whatever you want, obviously, but I don't think that you should, at least if you plan to release a patch.

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Just now, Zenophilious said:

No offense, but if you're using machine translation, it won't be up to par.  It's not really a question of whether or not it'll be bad, it's more about just how bad it'll end up being.

You can do whatever you want, obviously, but I don't think that you should, at least if you plan to release a patch.

Yes'm.

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7 hours ago, upcastdrake said:

The point isn't to do it not up to par. If everyone is against it, I'll just do it as a personal project I guess.

No one can stop you from doing this. If you feel like it is something you and others would beinifit from, then go right ahead.

I too would advise against it, though. Hear me out.

A translation project of such a big game will take a long time. It will take lots of effort from hackers, editors, QCers and... well, even if you are using machine translators, the translation will take time. Throwing all that time into something that a very large amount of the community will instantly discredit because it is machine TLed will suck for everyone involved.

I have personally helped TLC a script that was TLed by an individual like yourself, someone without Japanese knowledge; just a machine translator. The result wasn't as dreadful as people might excpect. About 70% of the lines were actually acceptable. The issue is that last 30%. It made absolutely no sense, and completely broke the flow of the script. Now, 30% of a 30-50 hour game is a lot. Chances are decently big parts of the story will be impacted by that. What do you do when you find lines you cannot understand yourself? That is not a translation. If the machine translator says something completely nonsencical, you have no one who can correct it. You only have a line in a foreign language that might or might not contain important story that you cannot translate correctly.

Chances are this will be something you regret after working on it for a while. Everyone appriciates the intent behind people starting projects like these. No one here is out to get you or anything. You want to give back to the community by translating a game; that's great. Sadly, the harsh truth of it is that if you have no one who speaks Japanese, you can't really translate a Japanese game properly. Machine translations will only go so far. To translate a work of fiction like this, you need someone who can understand the intent behind the lines, beyond just literally TLing each word individually.

In the end, it is your choice, but it would be wise to think about this a bit more before doing anything else.

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10 hours ago, upcastdrake said:

The point isn't to do it not up to par. If everyone is against it, I'll just do it as a personal project I guess.

It is literally not possible to do a machine translation that is up to par.  I'm sorry to be blunt, but you don't seem to be getting it, so here it is:  Machine translation is essentially the definition of sub-par.

And you're also displaying a willingness to ignore other people telling you that your plan is not up to par.  This is a bad idea, for two reasons.  First, if you really do care about producing good work, you need to listen to people criticizing your work, not ignore it, because otherwise when you make mistakes (and you will, everyone does, all the time) you won't even really hear about it.  Second, taking this approach will convince people who know what they're doing (like the translators you're hoping to attract) that they'd better stay away from you.

Edited by Nandemonai
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1 hour ago, Nandemonai said:

It is literally not possible to do a machine translation that is up to par.  I'm sorry to be blunt, but you don't seem to be getting it, so here it is:  Machine translation is essentially the definition of sub-par.

And you're also displaying a willingness to ignore other people telling you that your plan is not up to par.  This is a bad idea, for two reasons.  First, if you really do care about producing good work, you need to listen to people criticizing your work, not ignore it, because otherwise when you make mistakes (and you will, everyone does, all the time) you won't even really hear about it.  Second, taking this approach will convince people who know what they're doing (like the translators you're hoping to attract) that they'd better stay away from you.

I'm not ignoring advice. I took it into account and considered it.

I'm having a lot of fun hacking the game though and I really want to play it, so I won't stop. We can delete the post or something so no one knows if it makes you guys feel better.

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9 hours ago, upcastdrake said:

I'm not ignoring advice. I took it into account and considered it.

I'm having a lot of fun hacking the game though and I really want to play it, so I won't stop. We can delete the post or something so no one knows if it makes you guys feel better.

And that's fine.  Don't let me or anyone else here tell you what to do.  I'm just trying to point out that you said you cared about doing a good job.  If you're having a great time hacking, and you care more about playing the game at all than you do about doing a good job, then by all means, go right ahead.  But you need to be aware of the trade-off that you're making, and go into making it with your eyes open.

You really do not want to be like the guy who popped up a couple of months ago, having already spent a huge amount of time translating some game into very broken English, and was upset because he couldn't find anyone willing to fix it up and make it presentable - only to be told that this was because he had been doing it wrong all along, and nobody wanted to bail him out of the giant hole he'd unknowingly dug himself into.

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24 minutes ago, Nandemonai said:

And that's fine.  Don't let me or anyone else here tell you what to do.  I'm just trying to point out that you said you cared about doing a good job.  If you're having a great time hacking, and you care more about playing the game at all than you do about doing a good job, then by all means, go right ahead.  But you need to be aware of the trade-off that you're making, and go into making it with your eyes open.

You really do not want to be like the guy who popped up a couple of months ago, having already spent a huge amount of time translating some game into very broken English, and was upset because he couldn't find anyone willing to fix it up and make it presentable - only to be told that this was because he had been doing it wrong all along, and nobody wanted to bail him out of the giant hole he'd unknowingly dug himself into.

I understand.

It's not that I care about playing more than doing a good job; I wouldn't want to play a game that was incoherent. I was more posting here looking for translators or volunteers to do some editing or QC. If there are none, then so be it. It will just take longer.

Edited by upcastdrake
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