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Nosebleed

Phenomenology of Catgirl Pornography: A Postmodern Approach to the Fetishization of Animality ©

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1 minute ago, Clephas said:

@Nosebleed I'm just curious... but would it happen to be Wanko to Kurasou and the Nekopara series that formed your impressions?  Because both of those definitely portrayed the mimikko as... subhuman in most ways while making light of that fact.  While I liked the characters in both, I can honestly say that, looking at the setting and attitudes in both, I couldn't really approve of the attitudes involved.  Wanko's protagonist is non-discriminatory, but that is because he sees everything in a flat, non-emotional manner.  There is definitely a sense that the human characters in Nekopara, beyond any doubt, don't see the nekomimi girls as equals in any way.  They are 'pets'.  Even the protagonist's worries in the first game kind of sound like a guy with bestiality struggling with his lusts rather than a protagonist struggling with the idea of an interracial relationship (the difference is pretty easy to pick up if you've read certain books written in the seventies and eighties about America's racial issues). 

Why yes, it was those two exact games that prompted me to discuss this issue in a chat and subsequently bring it to the forums. Surprised you figured it out :P

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6 minutes ago, TexasDice said:

kj

Next you're telling me that robot girls are real people too. Fucking Synth-sympathizers... Izt5MVL.png

This is literally going to be an issue sometime you know. Hell, possibly within our lifetime

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13 minutes ago, Norleas said:

It's obvious that catgirls will be treated in a different way than humans, remember that some time ago humans treat like mere stupid objects other humans only because they have a different skin color or belief, remember that nowadays in some countries womans are considered objects. Now imagine the history with people with different body structure.

But the problem is they're treated as sub-human and then they somehow enjoy it. This weird portrayal of animal girls as pets who enjoy being pets despite clearly exhibiting a human-like conscioussness is really odd to say the least. Imagine instead of animal girls you had regular human girls who acted as pets and you took them on walks with a leash around their necks. Wouldn't you call that slavery? Why is it suddenly seen as different when it's catgirls when the only difference between them is having or not having animal ears and/or a tail? It's very arbitrary criteria. Yes, they dumb down the character so it seems less wrong, but that dumbing down in itself is part of the problem. Why must it be this way?

The way this submissiveness fetish has permeated the animal girl trope to the point where it's almost become a standard that catgirls must be pets and not regular human-like creatures with a will of their own is shallow and needs to be fought against! :wafuu:

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10 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Why yes, it was those two exact games that prompted me to discuss this issue in a chat and subsequently bring it to the forums. Surprised you figured it out :P

Those are the ones most likely to create that attitude in my experience that aren't nukige (the nukige are frequently worse).  As a piece of advice to those who want 'mimikko as equals', you should stick to actual fantasy VNs like World Election and Hatsuru (where they are just another race) or ones that actually face the issues head-on to some extent.  Sakura Iro Quartet, as I mentioned before, takes the issue on directly, and to some extent so does Otomimi. 

In exchange, there are lots of times where nekomimi/mimikko heroines are just plopped down into a game randomly as moe-bait with no status issues attached...

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15 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

But the problem is they're treated as sub-human and then they somehow enjoy it. This weird portrayal of animal girls as pets who enjoy being pets despite clearly exhibiting a human-like conscioussness is really odd to say the least. Imagine instead of animal girls you had regular human girls who acted as pets and you took them on walks with a leash around their necks. Wouldn't you call that slavery? Why is it suddenly seen as different when it's catgirls when the only difference between them is having or not having animal ears and/or a tail? It's very arbitrary criteria. Yes, they dumb down the character so it seems less wrong, but that dumbing down in itself is part of the problem. Why must it be this way?

The way this submissiveness fetish has permeated the animal girl trope to the point where it's almost become a standard that catgirls must be pets and not regular human-like creatures with a will of their own is shallow and needs to be fought against! :wafuu:

This is the cutest little issue I have ever felt disturbed by.

It's pretty great that we take VN's seriously enough to discuss them like this.

Edited by Chronopolis

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35 minutes ago, Yeah Way said:

This is literally going to be an issue sometime you know. Hell, possibly within our lifetime

40 minutes ago, Darklord Rooke said:

I hope you realise this attitude is going to be what causes Skynet to nuke us all :( 

I would not worry too much, because I know that we can always rely on our glorious species to do what needs to be done.

GMaVMEy.jpg

37 minutes ago, Norleas said:

It's obvious that catgirls will be treated in a different way than humans, remember that some time ago humans treat like mere stupid objects other humans only because they have a different skin color or belief, remember that nowadays in some countries womans are considered objects. Now imagine the history with people with different body structure.

That is a different matter altogether though and actually a great vehicle for plot I am always interested in. From the top of my head, I can think of every single VN containing a robot girl and Period, which had the angel people walking around.

Edited by TexasDice

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29 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

But the problem is they're treated as sub-human and then they somehow enjoy it. This weird portrayal of animal girls as pets who enjoy being pets despite clearly exhibiting a human-like conscioussness is really odd to say the least. Imagine instead of animal girls you had regular human girls who acted as pets and you took them on walks with a leash around their necks. Wouldn't you call that slavery? Why is it suddenly seen as different when it's catgirls when the only difference between them is having or not having animal ears and/or a tail? It's very arbitrary criteria. Yes, they dumb down the character so it seems less wrong, but that dumbing down in itself is part of the problem. Why must it be this way?

The way this submissiveness fetish has permeated the animal girl trope to the point where it's almost become a standard that catgirls must be pets and not regular human-like creatures with a will of their own is shallow and needs to be fought against! :wafuu:

In Nekopara, they were a human invention, right? They could have been programmed to enjoy their slave lifestyle

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Which begs the question; Would it even make sense to engineer catgirls in the first place? The first concern is always money; Making the initial generation of catgirl will take years of funding and lots of money for scientists and all that lab equipment, including all kinds of permits.

How would we make this money back? Ideas:
- Pets, companions and sex toys: The (for us) obvious answer, but I doubt that would make a lot of money back short-term.

- Medicine: Depending on how similar their DNA is to ours, they could be used for precise medical tests and even function as a source for organs (see: The Island from 2005).

- Military: Probably not, unless they possess abnormal physical prowess or things like night-vision or are simply easy enough to reproduce in order to make it worth wasting them by the millions.

This question would need to be answered in-universe, if Nosebleed wants a more serious take on catgirls. This could be skipped by making a fantasy setting (cat girls are just a race), making them aliens (PURGE) or having them be a sudden mutation that appeared world-wide out of nowhere (like Period). But by moving to one of those settings, we would lose the whole tool vs being angle.

 

There are some other factors worth exploring. For example, if they were able to breed with real humans, what would change? 

7 minutes ago, Flutterz said:

The real question is if humans created catgirls, would catgirls be considered artificial intelligence?

fWrWz4l.jpg

Edited by TexasDice

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39 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

But the problem is they're treated as sub-human and then they somehow enjoy it. This weird portrayal of animal girls as pets who enjoy being pets despite clearly exhibiting a human-like conscioussness is really odd to say the least. Imagine instead of animal girls you had regular human girls who acted as pets and you took them on walks with a leash around their necks. Wouldn't you call that slavery? Why is it suddenly seen as different when it's catgirls when the only difference between them is having or not having animal ears and/or a tail? It's very arbitrary criteria. Yes, they dumb down the character so it seems less wrong, but that dumbing down in itself is part of the problem. Why must it be this way?

The way this submissiveness fetish has permeated the animal girl trope to the point where it's almost become a standard that catgirls must be pets and not regular human-like creatures with a will of their own is shallow and needs to be fought against! :wafuu:

They are always treated like this, so this become the normal to them. In real life exist cases that parents raise a child like their personal slaves, the child living in a close world grow thinking that this is normal and sometimes even after see reality refuses to admit that his parents are the wrong. Now think that in the world of these titles the entire society is a maniacal parent.

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Man I wish there were more vns where cat girls weren't just pets

You're better off with actual fiction. You can start with "Instrumentality of Mankind" series by Cordwainer smith. The particular story I have in mind is called "Norstrilia". Japanese didn't invent cat girls; they (and more or less, any animal-people) are a theme as old as the world itself.

I can't expect fetish-pandering moefests that are vn's to likely introduce cat girls, to actually take them more seriously. Or at least - as they say - make their writers do their homework, instead relying on extensive ammounts of applied phlebotinum.

That aside, nice shitpost @Nosebleed :leecher:

Edited by Narcosis

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11 minutes ago, TexasDice said:

Which begs the question; Would it even make sense to engineer catgirls in the first place? The first concern is always money; Making the initial generation of catgirl will take years of funding and lots of money for scientists and all that lab equipment, including all kinds of permits.

How would we make this money back? Ideas:
- Pets, companions and sex toys: The (for us) obvious answer, but I doubt that would make a lot of money back short-term.

- Medicine: Depending on how similar their DNA is to hours, they could be used for precise medical tests and even function as a source for organs (see: The Island from 2005).

- Military: Probably not, unless they possess abnormal physical prowess or things like night-vision or are simply easy enough to reproduce in order to make it worth wasting them by the millions.

This question would need to be answered in-universe, if Nosebleed wants a more serious take on catgirls. This could be skipped by making a fantasy setting (cat girls are just a race), making them aliens (PURGE) or having them be a sudden mutation that appeared world-wide out of nowhere (like Period). But by moving to one of those settings, we would lose the whole tool vs being angle.

 

One day Jesus came back down to Earth and said "here have some catgirls" and so begins the story...

It's important to note these types of questions are almost never answered in most games where catgirls are genetically engineered, so it's pretty moot to think about them to begin with.

For example, Nekopara says catgirls were invented but it never specifies why (you can make conjectures but it's still up in the air), yet it still treats catgirls as pets just because that'll get weebs to buy the game. It could just as easily introduced genetically engineered catgirls as just another species we one day came up with, since it will never bother with an explanation for either scenario.

Although I agree it would be nice to have some answers, the general idea I wanted to convey is that, even if you're just making a mindless moege, you don't need to have catgirls as pets, you can just have them be another race. Yes, even if they were genetically engineered somehow (most games never bother to explain it anyway).

Can you imagine if Boob Wars actually went into full detail as to how humanity got split into a big boobs and a small boobs faction?

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3 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

One day Jesus came back down to Earth and said "here have some catgirls" and so begins the story...

It's important to note these types of questions are almost never answered in most games where catgirls are genetically engineered, so it's pretty moot to think about them to begin with.

For example, Nekopara says catgirls were invented but it never specifies why (you can make conjectures but it's still up in the air), yet it still treats catgirls as pets just because that'll get weebs to buy the game. It could just as easily introduced genetically engineered catgirls as just another species we one day came up with, since it will never bother with an explanation for either scenario.

Although I agree it would be nice to have some answers, the general idea I wanted to convey is that, even if you're just making a mindless moege, you don't need to have catgirls as pets, you can just have them be another race. Yes, even if they were genetically engineered somehow (most games never bother to explain it anyway).

I don't like half-assing things. Either you make a fetish nukige about copulating with pets or a serious story delving into the intricacies of interracial relationship with another species.

Just having them around as normal people with animals ears seems pointless to me. Because then, you could just remove the ears and nothing would change.

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Just now, TexasDice said:

I don't like half-assing things. Either you make a fetish nukige about copulating with pets or a serious story delving into the intricacies of interracial relationship with another species.

Just having them around as normal people with animals ears seems pointless to me. Because then, you could just remove the ears and nothing would change.

I'm not saying to half ass it. Obviously any story involving an inter species relationship has to delve into all the things that stem from it whether it wants to or not (otherwise it'd just be like dating any human, like you said). All I'm saying is to not treat them as sub-human when you do this. 

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While there definitely is scope for stories with catgirls that simply physically have cat features but are otherwise human in cognition and self-awareness, I have absolutely no problem with catgirls that have retained some of the cognition and features of cats in addition to their human traits, preferring to be pet and 可愛がってる the same was as cats and so on. That's part of their appeal in addition to having the sexual attraction of humans otherwise; that you want to pet them as well as mating them.

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5 hours ago, Nosebleed said:

Imagine instead of animal girls you had regular human girls who acted as pets and you took them on walks with a leash around their necks.

We kinda have this already in BDSM sub/dom relationships (though you'd have to be brave to show an outsider the collar). Which are admittedly not seen as the norm, and are by agreement :P

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On ‎2016‎年‎12‎月‎30‎日 at 5:50 PM, Narcosis said:

You're better off with actual fiction. You can start with "Instrumentality of Mankind" series by Cordwainer smith. The particular story I have in mind is called "Norstrilia". Japanese didn't invent cat girls; they (and more or less, any animal-people) are a theme as old as the world itself.

I can't expect fetish-pandering moefests that are vn's to likely introduce cat girls, to actually take them more seriously. Or at least - as they say - make their writers do their homework, instead relying on extensive ammounts of applied phlebotinum.

Came here to say this, and thrilled to see someone beat me to it.  Cordwainer Smith's Underpeople (including catpeople!) date back to the 50s and have some very interesting perspectives on how the different races interact.  Also, very good stories in general, and more people should read them, just because.

 

Otherwise, I think Clephas has pretty much covered it - Catgirls are normally just dropped in, but when given a reason, it's usually some variety of the nukige stereotype you see in NekoPara.  As with all Japanese moe stereotypes, don't try to think about them; it'll just hurt your brain.

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Now i wonder, if there were male cat people to breed with the female ones, would there be random cat people fucking in alleys and rooftops during the night? Would the male cat people yell when they're horny and beat the shit of the females during sex like the actual animals do?

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I always ask myself what's worse for a setting in which cat girls and humans can't interbreed; There also existing cat boys or them having to f*** regular male cats.

The answer is hopefully that they're made exclusively in laboratory-tubes, so that I don't have to think about it any further. :komari:

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